Need Advice - is CPU or Video Card more important?

Hi,

I need to basically rebuild my computer due to the rapidly deteriorating condition of my current computer. However, I’m left in a bit of a quandary – Is it better to try and push for a more upgraded CPU while keeping a similar video card or go for a small upgrade on my CPU while trying to get a more update video card?

I use the comp for games – GW, HL2, BF2, NWN, Oblivion, etc and am looking for performance in them rather than app’s such as Word, Excel, graphic designing, programming, etc

I’m still considering my options – because right now all I probably would need to replace is the MB, which is close to dead. I’m considering whether it would be worth upgrading other components – I currently plan on getting a new HD & PSU with whatever I decide. HD is on its last legs as well (I think), and PSU is working fine, I just want one with more wattage.

Here’s my current system:

AMD 64 3000+
EpoX 8KDA3+ 754-pin MB
GeForce 6600 GT 256 MB AGP Video Card
1 GB Ram (PC 3200)
SoundBlaster Live!3.x
1 * 40 GB Seagate HD
1 * 8.4 GB Seagate
400W PSU

If I just replace the MB with a similar one to what I have now, I wouldn’t need to buy a new video card – just the MB, PSU & HD. This is of course the cheapest option available to me. If I choose to upgrade it will cost more as I’d then be looking to replace more component’s – and this is where I’m not sure if it’s worth it or not.

Right now I get ~40 fps without AA in GW, which drops down to ~20-30 fps with AA on. Now I’m not sure if this is due to the CPU, Video Card or the fact my monitor is ~6-7 years old now and can only be installed as a “standard” monitor. Also to note is in Oblivion fps drops down to ~20-25 if I turn on any AA or HDR or try and play in 1024*768 mode.. I get 25-35 fps in 800*600 mode with its recommended setting’s.

Just so you know, here’s the list of problems I’ve been having:

- My keyboard randomly decides to not work. When this happens the lights on the keyboard go out and nothing I press will work. If I lightly hit (very lightly mind you) the keyboard it generally comes back on. Wiggling the connection plug also will get it working again – this also will make it stop working as the power to the keyboard goes on and off. BTW, I’ve had this happen with 3 different keyboards, so it’s not a keyboard issue.

- My USB ports sometimes decide not to work on bootup. I’ll boot up and have no mouse (it’s a USB mouse). If I pull the plug out and push it back in again, the mouse will work normally. This only ever happens on startup, never afterwards.

- I’ve now started getting random lockups on boot – it’s coming up with an error sitting on the Detecting Memory portion of initial bootup. If I pull the mem boards out and plug them back in it will then work again.

- Also, not sure if this is a problem.. but once the comp is booted up and running it’s sitting on state 50, which is Initialize USB. Not sure if this is relevant or not.. as I only noticed this when I was starting to get the keyboard dropouts..

- I’m now also unable to properly and fully defrag my HD. It gets to the same section every time and just finish’s – same section of the drive no matter what profile or program I use.

- I’m also getting slow load times at bootup – I get to where I log in as my user account and it gets to the desktop fine, but then have to sit and wait ~1 minute or so while it finishes loading drivers/programs – usually sound device & Firewall. While it’s in this “wait” mode.. I am unable to run/load any program.. if I try it just does nothing and will only load once it finishes loading the other stuff first. IE if I double-click my dialup icon before the firewall/sound drivers have loaded.. the dialup will only initialize once the firewall/sound drivers have loaded.

So yeah, that’s just what I can remember that’s going on with my hunk of junk computer right now. I’m debating whether or not I need to replace just the MB and hope the CPU & Video card aren’t damaged.. or just go and replace the works.

I’m just not sure if it’s worth me spending more money on getting a better CPU at expense of not really upgrading my video card much.. or if it’s worth more getting a better video card at expense of the CPU (and getting a better video card with slight increase in CPU is actually cheaper! Heh).

Here’s an idea of the costs and such – please note, these are Australian dollars, not US. The price’s I am quoting are for here.. and I’m not prepared to order from the US. What I’m really after is an opinion on which would be better for games, not the cost factor really.. (Price’s given just for illustrative purposes only! )

Option 1 – Better CPU, only slightly (?) better video card:

Shop 1:

AMD 64 Dual-Core 4000+
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium S939 PCIe DDR
PSU - ~500W
WD CAVIAR SE/ 200GB/ 7200RPM/ SATAII/ 3.5in
PCIe 6800 XT 256MB DVI/DVI/TV 350Mhz

Cost $1,316

Or with a Asus EAX 1600 PRO/TD/512; ATI X1600 PRO, Dual VGA

Cost $1,302

Shop 2:

AMD 64 Dual-Core 4200+
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium S939 PCIe DDR
PSU - ~500W
200 GB JS Western Digital SATA II
GF FX 6800 XT 512Mb DDR3 PCIe DVI X2/TV

Cost: $1,367
Cost if use the ATI card above: $1,287

Option 2 – slight increase in CPU (?), but a higher range and cost video card:

Shop 1:

AMD 64 3500+
EPoX MOB-9NPA3J
PSU - ~500W
WD CAVIAR SE/ 200GB/ 7200RPM/ SATAII/ 3.5in
PCIe 7800 GTX OC 256MB DVI/DVI/VIVO 490Mhz

Cost: $1,290

Or - Gigabyte X800XL, 512MB, DUAL256bit, PCIEx16, DDRII

Cost: $1,134

Shop 2:

AMD 64 3500+
GIGABYTE K8NF-9 S939 PCIe DDR
PSU - ~500W
200 GB JS Western Digital SATA II
GF FX7800 GT 256MB VIVO PCIe Sli

Cost: $1,168

Or - Gigabyte X800XL, 512MB, DUAL256bit, PCIEx16, DDRII

Cost: $1,072

Now mind you, neither the HD or the Mb’s are set in concrete – These were quoted simply for the fact they are in the correct price bracket. Heck I don’t even know if those MB’s even support SATA 2 HD’s.. if not, I’ll need a whole different HD anyways :P

Now, remembering I’m building for games (silly thing to say, why else would we be reading tech forums for a game anyways if we weren’t interested in games? LOL).. which would give me better performance? Better CPU but crappier vid card or slightly improved CPU but better vid card?

Now I know the better CPU does leave room for more expansion (i.e. better vid card later on..) but fact of the matter is I’m not sure they are worth buying at the current prices (they cost ~$550+ here.. while the 3500+ is only like $300)…. I also know I need to replace my monitor, which I was planning on doing now’ish.. but I can’t afford both the monitor and comp repair/upgrade. And a new monitor is useless without a working comp.. so the monitor will just have to wait till Christmas,, or 1-2 months.. hehehe

Any opinions or advice welcome. Thanx in advance.

For gaming, your CPU does not matter at higher resolutions. If your primary intent is to game, you want a good video card. Any Intel 3.2 GHz or higher will generally not be a bottleneck; neither will any AMD @ 2.2 GHz or higher. A higher-clocked CPU does give you more headroom for the future and in other usages though.

Dual-core is useless in all but a couple games, tbh.

I suggest anything X1800 or 7800 if you're going to play all those games. =0

CPU doesn't make that much of a difference? I can see how that would be... so basically you'd suggest going for the better video card then? Does make sense at games are way more graphics intense than anything...

Question though. If I do go for just a video card upgrade.. ie keep the CPU I'm using now and just replace the MB.. this will allow me to afford a decent 19" CRT monitor as well. would keeping an old AMD 64 3000+ cpu hold me back if I went and got a 7800 GT or such video card? Or would I be facing bottlenecks with the cpu and thus be better off upgrading the cpu and holding off on the monitor?

AFAIK the cpu is fine and not at fault.. just the MB... and as i said, my monitor is 6-7 years old and dying. .. LOL it can't go higher than 1024*768.. the gamma on the monitor is maxxed and I still need to set gamme in games high to be able to see.. LOL but as it's still managing fine so far.. it's not priority 1.. but I'd like to replace it soon.. and if keeping the same cpu won't hinder me too badly, I will replace it..

Get a motherboard from another manufacturer imo, that epox sounds like it's the pits.

gogogo asus or abit, preferably abit.

I rebuilt the following in december:

abit an8 ultra
2gb g.skill pc4000
opteron 148 (2.2ghz @2.9ghz)
nvidia 6800gs

I'd do something similar today but swap the 6800gs for a 7600gt or a 78/900gt depending on budget - if you overclock opterons are still the winner (the 146 consistently clocks well). Socket am2 doesn't seem to have much going for it yet.

edit: turn off AA in gw for now, no point in running it if it degrades your gameplay.

Wait until conroe comes out, should be any time now, they spank everything in games and everything else come to think of it, and you may aswell go dual core as thats the future.

Time to give out some suggestions, ^.^

"Wait out xxx" - I wouldn't suggest this, unless you had a system that you were willing to wait 2 or 3 months after the initial launch on. As prices are almost 100% going to be sky high, but the initial stability and problems as a whole could be alot worse.

IMO upgrade to:

AMD Opteron 144 or AMD X2 3800+
ASUS A8N-E
Enermax Liberty 500w***
Memory***
EVGA 7600GT or X1800XT ($300 X1800XT)

PSU*** - Wattage is not as important as the distrobution of amperage throughout the rails of the PSU, as the most power is drawn from the 12v rail in newer systems.

Memory*** - While it is entirely possible that the memory slots or the memory controller could be fsked in your system, I would severely reccomend testing the RAM itself. Especially if you intend to keep it. Also, if you do decide to upgrade the RAM, and you intend to overclock for your own sake use 2 x 1024 sticks. It alleviates some stress of the memory controller, and makes isolation of problems memory related more simplistic. If you intend to use a dual core CPU, then 2GB helps. As it offers more bandwith and a single FSB dual core will benefit from this.

If you intend to get a dual core, then please don't buy the X2 4200+. The only advantage of buying a CPU higher than the X2 3800+, in my opinion, is the extra cache size. If thats what you are after then grab a AMD Opteron 165, for less than the X2 4400+, which is the first in the series of X2's to offer 2 x 1MB L2 cache.

mrcake - problem is, technology and price drop's take longer to effect us here in australia than they do over in the US. Also, I don't have a few month's to wait.. as my system is getting worse all the time. In a few months the only comp time I'll have is at work :P

pork soldier - I used to OC like mad.. had an old Celeron (great for OC'ing, crap for gaming unless OC'ed) 667 OC'ed up to 1.4-1.5 or so (any higher and I lost stability). But now, I tend to not OC much.. just not worth it for me right now, extra stress and heat for a few extra fps.. and with my lovely nack of busting modem comp's without OC'ing.. heh! like I wanna test it even more! :P

I don't run AA in GW at all. It was causing lag in big fights. Which did bother me.. so I nuked it, even though I think GW looks lovely with it on...

oh and mrcake - DC might be the way of the future, but what good does it do to moden games vs getting a older cpu but better video card? Especially if the bottleneck in the system is likely to be the vid card rather than cpu? Why spend a lot more money on something that won't gain me that much in comparison to what spending less on other stuff would do for me?

Lurid - the DC 3800+ is a fair bit cheaper than the 4200+ .. if I went for that and the MB you recommended, that leaves me with ~$500 for a video card which would get me a 7800 GT @ 450mhz clock speed with 256 MB ram. That's assuming my Ram isn't dodgy and needing replacing as well.

If the ram needs replacing, then my #'s will be way off and I'll have to re-think what I'm doing...

But lets say the memory is fine, is it worth the extra ~$200-300 to get the DC 3800+ over the standard 64 3500+ for what I'm doing? Or even worth the cost over just buying a MB for my current CPU that has PCIE on it and then lets me upgrade my monitor as well?

Is the performance gain of the DC 3800+ that much with a decent video card and dodgy monitor that much greater than the performance of an AMD 64 3500+ or AMD 3000+ with a decent video card and a good monitor?

BTW, concerning the PSU issue - how do you know if a PSU is good or bad? Like what numbers/stat's need to be looked at to detirmine if the PSU is good or bad or has enough 12v rails or whatever? like what amperage would be "good" in the 12v sectiion?

And as said, if I planned on OC'ing.. I'd be looking at a major overhaul of my case and cooling system.. not happening. I'll stick with factory defaults for now, at least to get a comp thats stable and working! hehehe But thank you for the thoughts on that. I appreciate it

One thought for DC is expandability.. I used to in the past just replace bits and pieces as needed/wanted.. which the DC would alloy for more.. but decent moden comp's stay usable for a whole lot longer in many ways than the old comp's did.. (or maybe they seem to for me.. or maybe it's because whenever I now buy parts it's because something has blown.. hahahahah!).

I'm looking into testing the RAM out.. I admit I am concerned about it.. after loosing 2 MB's to PSU burn-outs (both antec's.. and antec's supposedly are fairly reliable from what I've read).. heck I'm surprised the cpu isn't playing up.. but I'm getting no random reboots or anything else I'd associate with cpu problems.

thanx for all the advice

IMO go with a X1800XT if you want the most performance for your money, they run around $300 here, though thats USD and I realize AUS is alittle more expencive.

It depends on what you intend to do, if you just want a single core for now and perhaps to upgrade alittle while later then I would go with either an Opteron 144 or a A64 3000+ / 3200+, the 3500+ is...not worth the money IMO. The dual core will help with multitasking, and games are starting to take adantage of the second core, so thats something to think about. To me..the monitor isn't nearly as important as the system itself. Some people like to spend large sums of money on them, but I just use an older 17" CRT =P

You need to look at the wattage and the amperage. The amperage is located on the side sticker of the power supply unit, a nominal 12v setup would be something along the lines of a 12v Rail @ 20 - 25 Amps or 12v 1 and 12v 2 @ 17 - 20 each. I personally love my Enermax Liberty 500w for this reason, as it has two beefy 12v rails.

Not really, overclocking doesn't always require you to overhaul anything really. As long as you take the right precautinos, and do it the correct way while in the BIOs. I personally have achieved 2.7Ghz @ 1.4V, on the stock cooler @ 45C 100% load.

If you need to replace the memory IMO go with a 7600GT and get 2GB of ram, that should give you the money you need for the RAM and then alittle. I would personally go this route to begin with, most likely.

I can't speak to the rest of your issues since it's just a touch over my head and upgrading is such an individual thing. However, I recently bought a new video card myself. A 7600 GT, PCI-E, from eVGA. It's wonderful, lovely, and definitely does not give me any problems. Part Number: 256-P2-N553-AX. Great performance for a good price. Was a nice step up from my 6600GT card which was pretty darn good too.

Lurid - thanx for the advice on the PSU. I admit to not knowing (or remembering.. my brains too full of work stuff.. LOL) about that. Definately worth me looking at when i shop around for my new PSU.

BTW, to anyone who suggest's Antec PSU's - forget it. No offense.. but I've only ever had 2 PSU's burn-out on me over the years.. and they were both Antec's. maybe I just got extremely unlucky.. but after having 2 fail on me, not willing to give them another try.

As for getting the X1800XT - that's a bit of a tricky problem.. since the few shops I will deal with over here (ie that have good prices and good customer service) don't stock them :P on nVidia.. or low end ATI or X1900XT (which at $842 is way out of my price range)...

hmmm Asus EAX800XT for $630.. ? or Gigabyte X1800XT 512MB for $750.. ? or Gigabyte X800XL 512 MB for $425 .. ? the 1st 2 aren't really in my price range, and the 3rd one isn't what your suggesting I believe.. See my problem? means I am basically stuck with nVidia..

The thing is, I'm also thinking of getting new MB and CPU.. but cheap cpu like 3200+.. that's only $212 vs $464 for the DC 3800+. 3500+ is $292. See, my current CPU is 754 pin (and currently clock's at 2 ghz bus speed without O/C'ing.. it's one of the old original ones.. not like the moden 939 3000+ which run at 1.8 ghz ).. and it's not easy to readily find 754-pin MB's which also have PCI-e on them.. easy enough to get 939-pin MB's.. but that would mean whole new MB. (actually, this would at some point in near future run 2 comp's.. assuming I can gte a 2nd monitor.. wheee! but that's not a consideration.. as i have enough parts to build 2 comp's already (albiet dodgy ones.. LOL)).

And as for the O/C'ing - I've done it and had it stable.. *shrugs* I'm just not really into stressing comp's even more right now with my bad run of luck with comp's breaking down on me over the past few years (had 2 PSU's blow, had to replace 2 MB's due to this, had a vid card go flunky on me and now my current problems...). don't need more stress worrying about whether my safe O/C'ing will cause me to need to replace parts quicker! hehehe

at least you have a 17" monitor.. mines 14"! hehe.. and as I said, it's got it's gamma setting's maxxed, but I still need to up gamma in games to see things. however, I just checked proces.. and it's bloody hard to find CRT's anymore.. and prices of LCD's has plummented.. no idea what a good LCD would me.. but for now, thats another issue for another time... hehehe (knowing my luck.. right after I re-build my comp.. LOL!)

Concerning memory - if you had the choice between Kingston or Corsair brand, which would you choose? This is assuming I'm going to need to buy more ram (ie my current ram turns out to be faulty). Here's the options:

1 GB (2x512) PC-3200 DDR CORSAIR $145.00
1 GB PC4200/533 DDR2 CORSAIR VALUE $132.00

Actually, forget Kingston.. 1 GB kit costs $200.. blerch! (btw, this is for 400hrz NON-ECC CL2 (2-3-2-6-1) memory).. & $174 for 533MHZ DDR2 NON-ECC CL4 DIMM ram.. blerch!

Oh, and not even sure if the MB you suggested (which supports cpu's from 3000+ up to DC 4400+ or such) support's that DDR2 memory.. or if it's worth getting it (why is 1 stick cheaper than 2 sticks? LOL).. opinion's?

No problems, keeping up with tech stuff isn't something most want to do. Just so happens its my job...lol.

Yeah, like I said AUS prices are alittle tricky. Perhaps a 7800GT or 7600GT then?

Yeah, not as though thats a bad thing though, as both companies continuously pump out great chips.

I really really, suggest that you read a guide that i've found on LCD's. I can't link to outside forums, so please message me before you buy an LCD. Lots are dodgy and there are some very important points to consider when buying one.

Eh...I would probably go with Corsair. If you go with Corsair, then overclocking isn't going to be something that they'll take kindly to...most of the time. I would try to get 2GB if at all possible, though if it isn't I can sympathize.

s939 AMD's do not support DDR2 memory, so the DDR2 sticks aren't suitable..at all. Different pin sizes and number, just isn't supported by those boards.

It'll support all s939 processors, including Opterons. They don't always say that though, simply because different BIOs ship, throughout the course of CPU releases. So, if the CPU doesn't want to boot sometimes you have to flash the BIOs for it to recognize it properly. This is not generally the case though. DDR2 isn't supported, and wouldn't work well on a current AMD anyway. We prefer tighter timings, not bandwith.

I suggested that board, for its simplisity and ease of use. I doubt overclocking on it would be very fun anyway. The reason DDR2 is cheaper than DDR1 is...well I don't actually know, it just is. 1 Stick = cheaper, as its half of the amount of 2 sticks.... =P Anything else you need help with?

sorry for your bad luck on those but i could only tell you about my personal experience which was good. (i am still using both of them now)

i would think you would be getting way higher fps with that, im getting 30-40 with 2xaa, and i got a 2.2ghz amd athlon, 512mb,x800xl

Loviatar - don't worry about it. Lots of people have good luck with them, I just had back luck with 2 in a row going bust on me. I appreciated your advice

Lurid - Mind me asking what you do for a living? (probably, otherwise it would be listed in your profile hehehe)

7800GT is in my range.. so is the 7900GT, but with the huge issue they are having.. i'm staying well clear of them! hehehe 7600GT is cheaper than 7800GT.. is the performance loss a concern though? I might just stick with the 7800GT.. *shrugs*

Ooohhh, thanx for the info about DDR2.. will make sure I won't get any if I get ram. Pity though, since it's cheaper! hehehe just a shame comp stuff over here is so expensive and limited.. (at least with store's i'd trust to buy online with..). My option's for ram are either generic or corsair.. pfft!

And with generic.. at the one store I might be lucky to get good ram - since the generic they sell is either generic or brand name modules they have left over, don't stock anymore or aren't selling at normal retail price. so can be a bit of a gamble with their generic.. you might get generic.. or get nice brand memory! heh

I might just go for the corsair 1 GB kit if I can.. it's affordable and at least I wouldn't have the worry about whether it's dodgy or not like with my current ram. Just a shame it's 2 512 MB stick's and not 1 1mb stick. Oh wells, begger's can't be chooser's as they say.. heh

As for LCD's.. I've always been very hesitant about buy'ing them because I have read that they have problems with games. Something to do with the refresh rate or such iirc. Always prefered CRT's.. easier to know what your getting and knowing it will work.. but it's getting harder to buy CRT's anymore.

and as for the MB suggestion - I'm all for simplicity. I don't really need all the fancy thingies that some MB's offer (and cost an arm-an-a-leg for! LOL). That Asus board is a nice $150.. which compared with some of the priced for MB's with fancy stuff ($300+).. it's fine by me. Oh, and it's also supported by AMD as being an approved MB as well.. heh

i guess the CPU I buy depends on my budget. Good thing about that board is it takes them all.. so I can always upgrade later on if i want. Probably lowest i'd go is the 3200+ .. that runs at 2 ghrz? or is it still 1.8?

anyways, appreciate all the advice. I know I could prolly find a lot of this info myself.. but trying to find reviews and benchmarks and such and load the pages on dialup takes forever.. and I hardly ever have time at work to look things up (work connection is soooo much faster.. LOL as one would expect really.. LOL)

Ah, no issues mate. Its nice to be able to help someone, I work(ed) with an Uncle who owns a computer shop / CAD firm. I help him on occasion, as i'm 16 and they don't really like working me...insurance and what not I guess.

7800GT is a nice card, for sure. I'm using one right now, without issues. The 7600GT is supposed be just alittle under the 7800GT, if it comes down to Dual Core or 7800GT then i'd go with a dual core and 7600GT. That may just be me though.

Check the sticks before you buy, if they don't suit you then Corsair is fine, get the lowest timings you can afford. Something along the lines of 2-3-2-5 or so, are best. Long as its CAS 2 your AMD will thank you.

I like them simply because of their sheer lightness, less heat output, and what not. Though they like most things are subject to lies, as in the manufacturer lies about what the real specifics are...which only serves to copmlicate things.

The ASUS board is nice, I have a friend with one, seems as though its a simple board to work on and what not. Really cant' think of more you would need, unless you wanted to overclock or felt the need for multiple GPUs, which is silly IMO.

The 3200+ is the best priced of the single cores, as the 3000+ has been discontinued. The prices are actually going up for it, atleast here, which is pointless. If the 3000+ is cheaper where you are, then I would just get it. As 200Mhz isn't anywhere near a noticable difference. The 3000+ runs at 1.8Ghz and the 3200+ runs at 2.0Ghz.

Even though the s754 3000+ runs at 2.0Ghz, the s939 one will out perform it. Especially in games, dual channel memory for the win.

Not by a whole lot, though, 754 -> 939 was at best a 10% increase.
Definitely consider a single core 3800+ (2400/512) if you want great gaming performance; otherwise, the DC 3800+ (2000/512x2) is better for multitasking and creamy goodness. Don't leave intel out of the question though, their dual core chips are cheap. You can even buy a conroe-ready board for your next box, which will probably negate any price advantage the CPU has.

On the GPU note: for gaming, if you're playing FEAR at 1900x1200 or something crazy with all the eye candy turned on, your graphics card will be so limiting (unless you're on SLI/XF) that at that point, it really doesn't matter whether you have a FX-62 or a Celeron D 310. The game's gonna crawl.

Seef II - funny how you suggest the single core 3800+.. for me it cost's the exact same $ than the DC 3800+. so if I was going to spend that much money, why not get DC over SC?

As for the Intel.. here's the most expensive option for Intel that doesn't exceed the AMD 3800+ cost: Pentium 4 S775-650 3.4Ghz 2M Cache EM64T Or Pentium 4 S775-D-940 3.2Ghz 2M Cache EM64T. No idea how either of those compare to the AMD 3800+'s.. if I have time at work tomorrow I might look around for some benchmarks and such.

Lurid - You make me sad.. very, very sad. I used to be just like you.. know everything there was to know, and now here I am asking on a forum what to do. LOL

You give me the workings of a XT/AT, 286, 386, etc and I'll get it working. Back in those days (boy does that make me feel old) there was no such thing as onboard com ports, no-one had ever heard of USB, onboard IDE was just a dream. And forget having extended ram plugged into the MB.. back then everything was on it's own board - IDE card for floppy & HD's..I/O card for com and parrallel ports.. expanded memory boards if you wanted over 640k ram (yes, not dimm's or simms.. but boards you plugged into your ISA slots..). Oh and don't forget that CPU's did *NOT* have a math's co-processsor.. if you wanted one of those (ooohhh.. you had to be like big time scientist or programmer to want one!) you had to buy and install it seperate! And memory was in chip's.. you plugged the memory chip's in.. not boards.. individual chips!

and once you had everything you wanted.. you then had to manually set their IRQ,s and such via dip switches and/or jumper settings. Each card had it's own set of dip switches and jumper's.. and if there was a conflict.. there was no window telling you what was conflicting or any popup msg or such.. you had to physically know what each card was set to! And once you had that up in place.. you had to then run it's drivers in DOS when you booted up so as to be able to use them! Want expanded ram? you need to run the driver's.. you had to run drivers to get the I/O cards to work.. driver's for everything! hehe.. unlike today where generally it's plug'n'forget :P

I've gone a long way.. from being abkle to do all that.. to not having the foggiest clue whatsoever whats going on with technology.. LOL but then again, since I stopped following what was happening.. guess it was bound to happen. Ah wells, I'm not to stubborn to admit when I need help .. hehehe

What... no SLI!? how outragious! I could never live without SLI! *stops typing as he falls off his chair laughing*

Price of the SC 3200+ is $212 vs $464 for the DC 3800+. I'll just have to see how much my budget is.. heh if I can only get the 3200++.. no biggie.. l's just save up and upgrade to DC later on.. hehehehe the 3000+ is $200.. not going to be that miserly.. for $12 extra I'd get the 3200+.. LOL

Hahaha, i've been tinkering for awhile aswell. My parents didn't trust me with newer technology when I was little...for good reason. So...I played around with some of what you speak of. In fact, the way your describing some of that i'm reminded of that one computer "kit" people ordered in...the 70's? That came in a giant box, and you had to soldier everything together yourself. In which case it did...nothing. I cringed alittle when you spoke of the manual IRQ's...god I hate IRQ conflicts /cringe

Anyway, if your going for higher end single cores then IMO get a 3700+ if available, if not then the 3200+ is nice. Really no harm in going single core right now, then upgrading after a few months or so. Hopefully AM2 will be out soon, which is good for most of us, to drive the prices down some.

Yeah the performance gain isnt huge, but it will be to an individial who has been on an older s754 platform or earlier for awhile. While it doesn't always have a high performance increase, over s754 it does have a small one, and some feature enhancements. Smaller die sizes, meaning less heatoutput and less energy intake. Better memory controllers, which contributes to higher overclocks, and the like....

Lurid - I've heard about that box "kit". Heh. reminds me sorta of the fact that my dad soldered up a "stereo" kit. damn thing worked brilliantly for like 20 years too! heh They definately don't build things like they used to..

As for IRQ conflicts.. *shudders* I don't know anyone who does like them! LOL At least moden people have Windows or onboard display's to tell them where the problem is.. back in those days all you had was the system beep if you were lucky enough to have a speaker! Otherwise it was manually check each and every board to see what it's configuration was set to.

Oooh.. and don't forget, unlike modern MB's, the order they were plugged in was important as well. some cards wouldn't like being plugged into ISA slot 2+.. some cards didn't like being plugged either before or after other cards. so not only did you have potential IRC/etc conflict's.. you had slot conflicts to deal with as well! LOL

Thanx for all the advice, it's been very helpful and informative.

I thought I'd ask my new question here.. since it's relevant to this thread.

With video cards - how important is the difference between 256MB and 512MB video ram?

Like most of the video cards that are in my price range only have 256MB ram.. and I'm wondering if this will have a huge dent inperformance. I might be able to afford a 7800GT with 512 MB ram if I go with the 3200-3500+ CPU.. (maybe)..

I'm wondering.. should I be worried about this or just go with a 256MB 7800GT.. any advice?

Shouldn't matter, the only game that even uses that much onboard RAM, that comes to mind off the top of my head is Doom 3. Even with the larger memory size there is absolutely zero, and I mean zero perfromance difference as far as noticeable differences.

I have doom 3 and it plays just fine on my 256MB 6600 GT. sure I can't play it in ULTRA mode.. but who cares.. LOL Well i can, but it does slow down then :P

So there's no real issue with staying with 256 MB cideo ram? As it does cost quite a bit to go to 512 MB.. and I also remember the old original 512 MB vid cards were garbage as their memory timings and bus speed were garbage compared to the 256MB model's.. I guess that's not a problem right now?

I'm not sure, it varies from card to card. Simply because some companies like to trick people who have the "bigger is better" mentality, into thinking that even though the GPU can barely utilize its larger onboard vram, that it is somehow better. Which just makes people pay more for...nothing.

Yeah, I went from a GeForce Fx5500 256Meg DDR Vid Card...

To a GeForce 6600GT 128Meg DDR3...

MAJOR performace boost. I run full AA at 1280x1040, and get 30fps

Wierd thing is, even when I drop AA it still runs 30fps... Go figure.

Another question.. This is about brand quality/trust in Video Cards.. Would you rather get a ..

Gainward 7600GT Golden Sample 256MB DDR3 575MHz+ MHz

http://www.gainward.net/products/pro...products_id=46

Or a ..

XFX GeForce 7600GT XXX Edition 256meg DDR3 590 MHz

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/...ion Id=186033

Due to budget issue's.. I'm not going to be able to afford the 7800GT like I wanted (if I hadn't had to replace my monitor I could have).. and the only 7600 GT's that are in my price range that I've ever heard of are XFX or Gainward..

The other brands are ASUS (Radeon AX800XT), ASUS 7600 GT (560mhz), Gigabyte 7600 GT (GV-NX76T256D-RH), Powercolor Radeon (X1800GTO, X1600XT, X800GTO) & Prolink 7600 GT. Don't really know how good/reliable these video cards are.. even the ones made by ASUS & Gigabyte (I've had dodgy MB's from Gigabyte.. so not sure I'd trust em with my video card..).

So yeah, I'd love any opinion's on this.. (they cost around the same price for me in Australia... so cost is not an issue here).