Primal Rage needs a HUGE nerf!

ubermancer

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

Wow, does Primal Rage need a nerf or what? Take a look at this *beast* of a skill:

Elite Stance - 5 / na / 15
For 10 seconds, all of your attacks have an additional 10...46% chance of being critical hits and have 20% armor penetration. Primal Rage disables all skills for 10 seconds.

Now, in ANet's defense, they did make this skill elite and only available in the endgame, but the rest of the skill is just SICK! Look at this - you loose *ALL* adrenalin, AND for 10 seconds you cant gain adrenalin. I mean, how pimp is that? And only on a 15 second recharge? My god! Say good bye to Final Thrust and all those pesky skills people have been using to empty their adrenalin since forever, this elite is the way to go for draining your adrenalin!

I mean, sure, you get some critical hits in there, but those hit hardest on Hammers, and who really uses those? Plus, with their long adrenalin charging times, they dont play well with this elite. The armor penetration is an understandable drawback, as this skill prevents you from getting all that pesky armor-ignoring bonus damage from attack skills...

In short, if this skill alone is the reason I finally turned my Monk into a Mo/W, and I cant even put any points in strength, its clearly too powerful! If you remember the original Blood Renewal (+3 static regen and high sacrifice cost was GODLY!) and Holy Veil (back in the day, this skill didnt even remove hexes!), I think you can agree with me when I say that Primal Rage needs a nerf on similar caliber as what those skills got.

On an entirely unrelated note, the best way to decide how valid of an opinion you hold is by how insane the people opposing you are.

Aussie AJMW

Aussie AJMW

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Perth Aus

vanguards forsaken

W/

yeah when i first saw this skill it lookd so fulla siht. this could be abused so easily just come cripple woteva and pump this and there dead

Opeth11

Opeth11

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Richmond, British Columbia, Kanada

Demon of the Fall [Opet]

Mo/Me

Me ish confused o.o

Are you implying that this skill needs a buff? The comparisons you draw definitely make it seem like so.

Joke threads tend to boggle my mind.

Hidden in the Mist

Hidden in the Mist

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

I rather see Mending nerfed thankyouverymuch.

Opeth11

Opeth11

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Richmond, British Columbia, Kanada

Demon of the Fall [Opet]

Mo/Me

Don't you dare touch mending. It's my heart and soul.

golem bigstick

golem bigstick

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Elite Rifle Squad Faction

W/

what the hell are you talking about? i cant tell if your praising the skill for being too good or saying it sucks and needs a buff like holy viel.

Hidden in the Mist

Hidden in the Mist

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opeth11
Don't you dare touch mending. It's my heart and soul. *Touch*

Bye bye.

Riceboi

Riceboi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

My jedi forces are picking up sarcasm.

remmeh

remmeh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Apathy Inc [AI]

R/Mo

Mending (Maintained Enchantment Spell) 10/2/0
While you maintain this enchantment, target ally suffers from health degeneration of -1-3.

swordfisher

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

I'm still trying to think of any real use for Primal Rage. If you're using it with any regularity, you're not using adrenal attacks; if you're charging a full adrenal chain from zero between Rages you're lacking an elite attack and making less use of the elite you do have. You Will Die! will give your adrenaline a kick in the pants every 20 seconds, allowing you to throw out a chain faster and get back to Raging.

My present best attempt:

16 Hammer
12 Strength
6 Deadly Arts

Protector's Strike (fake IAS)
Mighty Blow
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow
"You Will Die!"
Siphon Speed
Primal Rage*
Rez Sig

Still, there are so many disadvantages to work around with this elite, it's hardly worth it. Oh and, yeah, the OP is dripping with sarcasm (and you know it).

Opeth11

Opeth11

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Richmond, British Columbia, Kanada

Demon of the Fall [Opet]

Mo/Me

Well then, what's the point of this thread?

Spam?

There are plenty of skills that don't get usage due to their crappy nature. I don't see them getting any recognition.

And for the person who touched my mending, I will eat your soup for lunch. Byotch.

Niosisw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Few Fallen Heros [FFH]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opeth11
There are plenty of skills that don't get usage due to their crappy nature. I don't see them getting any recognition.
Well, looks like you have a job to so!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opeth11
Well then, what's the point of this thread? It made me laugh out loud, so this thread's mission is done.

I was about half of the way through the thread until I noticed that it was being sarcastic, and then I just started laughing.




Great stuff.

Edit:

Great stuff the second time around too.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Definitely too powerful a skill. Almost on par with the legendary Keystone Signet (which I actually made a useful build out of once).

But really, who makes these warrior skills? This was probably done by the same person as the original Dwarven Battlestance... it's painfully weak. At least give an ias bonus

ubermancer

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

Sarcasm? What? Where did you pick up that I was being sarcastic!?

Listen, Primal Rage disables all your skills for 10 seconds. Thats all I know, and all I need to know, to know that this is a pimp skill. I mean, I guess I should be glad that its at least useable in the PVE game, rather then some crap skills like Assassin's Promise, but who will argue with me when I say they went a bit overboard with Primal Rage? Yeah, thats what I thought.

Its basically like they took everything that made Assassin's Promise suck (who really has the energy to have all their skills recharge that fast, hmmmm?) and turned it upside down, and made it useable three times faster.

Jeez guys, this isnt rocket science.

PS: rockets are very complicated things

sh4ft3d

sh4ft3d

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...

Frank Ought To Monk [FotM]

W/

I'm thinking disabling all non-attack skills would be a good buff. Any comments on the suggestion?

Schorny

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
But really, who makes these warrior skills? From my expierence I think it goes something like this:

A: I made a new skill: Primal Rage. It does 10-20% armor penetration on warrior attacks and it's elite and it has a recharge of...
B: mhm, ok let's test it
C: I tested it and it's too strong. I can abuse it when using ... the problem is: executioners does 300+ damage
B: ok, that is too strong. we need to prevent this abuse. let's disable all skills and buff armor penetration


Something like that will be in the creation process of primal rage and similiar skills... a good idea was too strong and the nerf hit it way too hard.

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

So it's an unplayable(or nearly unplayable) elite in PvE and PvP. Wow, not like we have any other skills like this...

Oh, and hammers are fairly common in PvP. PvErs just like to show off their "1337 r4r3" skinned shield too much, and of course you're entire goal in PvE as a warrior is to take damage, passing up that 16 al would be stupid.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

I can think of 1 use for Primal Rage. Somehow inflicting Cripple onto a target with a Hammer (desperation blow ftw!), then of course kindly asking an ally to go kill themself. Turning on I WIll Avenge You then spam Primal Rage.

Imagine the horror of a Hammer Warrior with increased attack speed, improved critical hit chances and armour penetration.
Now if only i could find a situation where my allies are dead and things are mysteriously crippled.

...
...
...
...

I know! An Assassin... with Return

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

^ I still can't get over it disabling skills and preventing adrenaline gain.

fb2000

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
I mean, sure, you get some critical hits in there, but those hit hardest on Hammers, and who really uses those? i do

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
^ I still can't get over it disabling skills and preventing adrenaline gain. Psh, skills and adrenaline are so overrated. Who uses them anymore?

ubermancer

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Psh, skills and adrenaline are so overrated. Who uses them anymore? I personally just pound on keys until something dies. The only one I make sure to use regularly is mending, and even then, I only have to do that once!

Oh, and I do like to call out my health, energy, weapon set (sundering fiery dragon sword of fortitude and exalted aegis ), and when I die, that the monks havent done their job , but those dont count since I can do all those even if my skills are blacked out!

And while thats probably the nicest thing about primal rage, I really do think its a bit overboard maybe it should just disable all of your non-healing prayers skills for 10 seconds?

DarkZeal

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

N/Me

Me theory is that Primal Rage is soooooooooooooooo crap. That it went off the crap end and ended up on the uber good end of the scale.

ubermancer

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkZeal
Me theory is that Primal Rage is soooooooooooooooo crap. That it went off the crap end and ended up on the uber good end of the scale. Exactly, it wrapped around.

*has fond memories of making too much money in the original sim city and instead instantly had trillions of dollars of debt and was kicked out of office*

uberpwnage

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Primal rage does need an improvement.

I've tried it a lot on my warrior, and the only thing I find it useful for is bragging to my guild about hitting 80 dmg a hit to a lvl 28.

Xasew

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Storm Bearers[SB]

I can see why we can't use skills with PR, because it would result in crazy sword warrior spikes. But they should change it to: "Primal Crap ends if you use a skill", like Bull's Charge. Then it would be a bit better.

SojiroTenken

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Here's an idea i had that could incorporate well with PM-- A Wammo
All you need are four skills-
Primal Rage
judge's insight
Strength of Honor
Mend condition

It's best to use this with a zealous axe.

First, throw on strnegth of honor on yourself and before you go into battle, Judge's Insight. THrow on primal Rage when it's time and after it wears off, mend condition IF necessary. I know this might sound crappy, but hey, 50% crit chance, 40% armor penetration with +8 melee damage isn't all too bad ^^.

fiery

fiery

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

maryland

InYurFace Gaming [IYF]

R/

Any wammo is a bad wammo :X.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Why if it is an elite it should be fine shouldn't it?Stop picking on Wammos how about those new Ammos with mending on yeah A/Mo.

Calico Swift

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Girl Power

R/N

ammoes lmfao "lock and load people, we got ammo!" *BaM* right out the barrel, and it leaves a spent shell casing laying around, how freaking awesome is that? Sorry, for going off topic, but that has got to be the most apropos acronym of all time. I am going to be giggling every time I see an ammo in game for the next couple of weeks.

Celab

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

[VENT]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico Swift
ammoes lmfao "lock and load people, we got ammo!" *BaM* right out the barrel, and it leaves a spent shell casing laying around, how freaking awesome is that? Sorry, for going off topic, but that has got to be the most apropos acronym of all time. I am going to be giggling every time I see an ammo in game for the next couple of weeks. no more fps for you!!

I could think of a interesting 2 man build which uses primal urge... mainly as a farming tool but pvp could be possible. I might start that actually.

Heres a PvP hammer warrior using it. Against another warrior he will be doing around 26-52 damage, not counting critical hits, with bludgeoner. Against a mage of somesort expect hits above 100.

My Character22


Warrior/Monk
Level: 20

Strength: 11 (8+3)
Hammer Mastery: 12 (8+4)
Healing Prayers: 12
Smiting Prayers: 6

Primal Rage (Strengh)
For 10 seconds, all of your attacks have an additional 46% chance of being critical hits and have 20% armor penetration. Primal Rage disables all skills for 10 seconds.
Energy: 5 Cast:0 Recharge:15

- Sprint (Strength)
For 12 seconds, you move 25% faster.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:20

- Warrior's Cunning (Strength)
For 9 seconds, your melee attacks cannot be blocked or evaded.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:60

- Power Attack (Strength)
If this attack hits, you strike for +25 damage.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:4

- Vigorous Spirit (Healing Prayers)
For 30 seconds, each time target ally attacks or casts a Spell, that ally is healed for 11 points.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:4

- Live Vicariously (Healing Prayers)
While you maintain this Enchantment, whenever target ally hits a foe, you gain 14 Health.
Energy:5 Cast:2 Recharge:0

- Balthazar's Spirit (Smiting Prayers)
While you maintain this Enchantment, target ally gains adrenaline and Energy after taking damage. (The amount of adrenaline gained increases depending on your rank in Smiting Prayers.)
Energy:10 Cast:2 Recharge:0


- Judge's Insight (Smiting Prayers)
For 13 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and have +20% armor penetration.
Energy:10 Cast:2 Recharge:10



Start by casting balthazar's spirit and live vicarously on yourself. use sprint to get to the battle. When there cast judge's insight, vigorous spirit, warriors cunning, then charge in with your primal rage on. If you have people paying their attention to you, balthazar's spirit would gain you energy, each hit will gain you 25 hp.
If you get a hammer with 19-35 zealos 3:-1 and a damage modifier whilst enchanted, you can replace balthazar's spirit with something more productve, such as crude swing (hitting +16 to foes near you, meaning more energy and hp)

uberpwnage

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico Swift
ammoes lmfao "lock and load people, we got ammo!" *BaM* right out the barrel, and it leaves a spent shell casing laying around, how freaking awesome is that? Sorry, for going off topic, but that has got to be the most apropos acronym of all time. I am going to be giggling every time I see an ammo in game for the next couple of weeks. Awesome! We can shoot the assassins out of a cannon! Best idea ever.

I mean come on, they'll live longer than they usually do, AND do more damage before they die.

Wrath Of Dragons

Wrath Of Dragons

Burninate Stuff

Join Date: Aug 2005

New Mexico

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
I can think of 1 use for Primal Rage. Somehow inflicting Cripple onto a target with a Hammer (desperation blow ftw!), then of course kindly asking an ally to go kill themself. Turning on I WIll Avenge You then spam Primal Rage.

Imagine the horror of a Hammer Warrior with increased attack speed, improved critical hit chances and armour penetration.
Now if only i could find a situation where my allies are dead and things are mysteriously crippled.

...
...
...
...

I know! An Assassin... with Return i laughed at that one.
wow.

Zarfol

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

Get boss down to 2 HP.
Use Primal Rage (Make it a shout too, "I'm Using Primal Rage and about to pwn j00!"
Kill boss and all skills become available.
Use the arcane mimicry to borrow your nearby warriors eviscerate.
Use "To the Limit!"
use IAS booser to get enough adrenaline then use eviscerate . All that for a super eviscerate .
Cast Mending on yourself

Ruhern

Ruhern

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Darkstone Azure

W/N

I've got an idea:

Hammer W/E

Primal Rage (e) Stance: 5 energy
Iron Mist Hex: 10 energy 2 cast 30 recharge
For 5-15 seconds, target foe moves 90% slower than normal. That foe gains immunity to damage from all sources except lightning.
Warrior's Cunning Skill: 10 energy 60sec recharge
For 5-10 seconds your melee attacks cannot be blocked or evaded.
"I Will Avenge You!" Shout: 5 energy
For each dead ally, you gain 10 seconds of health regeneration +3-6, and your attack speed increases by 25%.

Then whatever else you want. Of course you'll need a ligtning mod on your hammer. And you'll need some energy. But hopefully you'll pound the enemy for 10 seconds of Warrior's Cunning, doing crits with armor penetration.

Eh, now that I look at it, it still sucks. 60 sec recharge one Warrior's Cunning? Oh well. I'll post this anyways.

torquemada

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
I personally just pound on keys until something dies. The only one I make sure to use regularly is mending, and even then, I only have to do that once!

Oh, and I do like to call out my health, energy, weapon set (sundering fiery dragon sword of fortitude and exalted aegis ), and when I die, that the monks havent done their job , but those dont count since I can do all those even if my skills are blacked out!

And while thats probably the nicest thing about primal rage, I really do think its a bit overboard maybe it should just disable all of your non-healing prayers skills for 10 seconds? Sarcasam?

jaibas17

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tampico, Mexico

Blood Eagle [BE]

W/Mo

I just did a hammer warrior for pvp to test it, and when combiind primal rage with judge's insight, I was able to kill a 60 al target in 5 hits.

5 hits? not even skills suprass that.

btw, combining these 2 make the use of other attack skills kinda silly, so I guess that you got 5 slots left to use them for what you want

Legendary Battousai

Legendary Battousai

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

CA

[Ryuk]

W/A

Hmm why not add in strength of honor, retribution, holy wrath, healing touch and gift of health. the ultimate farming build... imma wait till someone says they test this... just watch, someone will

jaibas17

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tampico, Mexico

Blood Eagle [BE]

W/Mo

I just did a hammer warrior for pvp to test it, and when combiind primal rage with judge's insight, I was able to kill a 60 al target in 5 hits.

5 hits? not even skills suprass that.

btw, combining these 2 make the use of other attack skills kinda silly, so I guess that you got 5 slots left to use them for what you want

Celab

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

[VENT]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaibas17
I just did a hammer warrior for pvp to test it, and when combiind primal rage with judge's insight, I was able to kill a 60 al target in 5 hits.

5 hits? not even skills suprass that.

btw, combining these 2 make the use of other attack skills kinda silly, so I guess that you got 5 slots left to use them for what you want
SO if you load up live vicarously with a hilt such as vampiric, you could do more damage.

Just thought, since primal rage isnt a stance, you could use frenzy aswell, meaning 33% faster killings, keeping that monks can cope. Or any self healing on hit skills work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai
Hmm why not add in strength of honor, retribution, holy wrath, healing touch and gift of health. the ultimate farming build... imma wait till someone says they test this... just watch, someone will
Holy wrath would course serious energy management problems. MAybe for a E/Mo with large amounts of energy storage, but not a W/Mo.