More "attributes" to spend points on, Enchanting....

I know I know, this topic will make people say if you want this go play WoW. However think about some of the diversity in guild wars right now... anybody, and I mean anybody can make a 55 monk, or a touch ranger, or etc,. you get the point? it doesnt take as much skill to play a good evolved level 20 monk as it would a level 60 'priest...

point im trying to get at is guild wars has anywhere from 9-10 skills to put attribute points into. no big deal... however that all your attributes you have, you dont have anything to diversify your tank into a real tank, other than button mashing to hit your skill/stance. I fell if maybe falling into one of the upcoming chapters guild wars would make the game more in depth with your character, that would be great and probably keep more people around.

I already see some people complaining about the diversity of the game and yes you can always add another chapter and some people will have it beat in two, or three days and be like, ok now what... and it will sooner or later cause controversy with the game.

So im saying, who cares if guild wars adapts some of WoW's ideas... guild wars is still FREE, aside from the chapters, which is no problem. which if guild wars adapted the idea of professions, and more in-depth attributes such as dodge, passive attack speed, passive critical hit %, strength, defense, intellect, etc,. I feel this would bring a much larger crowd in from the WoW players. This will also break up the different professions and make them seem to break up the professions for their real reasons.... and add some enchanting in, then you can make your stronger pve characters much better, then you could really "twink" out characters and make the low level arena's so you cant level out... im sure some of you can remember wayyy back in the day when ascalon arena was crazy, people would get rushed and get drok's or 15k armor, elite skills, and come and wipe people with ascalon al armor out of the water... why not give us that opportunity here too.

Come on ANet show us that youve got something more up your sleeve for guild wars. also.... getting to level 20 can be done in a day. why not allow us to get to level 40 or so... and leave the level cap and armor cap at 20 for certain tourney's... ya know? why not open up different tournement level's... because im sure if you were to do that, you would definitely bring on a larger crowd of people looking for a pvp environment... either way this is all up to you, its your game. if anybody would like to leave comments about this, please do, i dont feel im the only person with this opinion...

WoW has some good features, some of which GW needs. Like an auction house.

WoW has some good features, some of which GW doesnt need. Like most of the things you mentioned in your post.

And of course, both games have bad features.

Why doesn't GW finish what they started, and put in the features that they forgot from D2?

I think this is an interesting idea... and could help break the moulds of chracters... diversity never hurts

~prime

It all comes down to player skills. You can name any build out there and some one could run it better than others. That's what GW is about.

There is no overpowered dominating build right now. There are many different builds around and the top 10 guilds are changing ranks all the time.

No need to make the game more complicated with attributes and more skill slots. None of that is going to change a player's skill.

From The Adrenaline Vault interview:

Okay, you know, that REALLY hurts me. I've been training as a monk for three months now, and I don't believe I have even a small part of what the top guild monks can do. I *don't* think you've been playing Guild Wars PvP at any serious level. Doesn't take skill? Yeah right.

I don't see your point. "You don't have anything to diversify your tank into a real tank", wha? How would you *diversify* a *tank* into a real *tank*? Trust me, button mashing only works as far as farming and PvE goes(when you go into PvE with farming builds, that is). First, your character should be filling a specialized role in a team, not trying to do everything by himself, and second, you really should play some PvP if you're bored of the PvE. I don't see how WoW PvE is any different, it's always just beating some AI that is predictable and not very challenging.


I don't see people complaining about the diversity of the game. I see people complaining that they don't have uber(red) items, that they can't get 100 levels(what for?), that they are limited to 8 skills and can't use all they've unlocked(uhh...), etc, etc, etc! There are literally hundreds of builds that you can run in GW, and mastering each is a very sophisticated task.


Dodge? There's a skill named Dodge. You can also dodge arrows. And you can kite warriors. This is in the game right now Passive critical hits already exist. Strength too. Defense is achieved through a high number of skills.

I don't see how these things will make the game more interesting for you, please explain. You can just imagine your warrior has a passive attack speed buff - or something. Guild wars mentality is adjusting your 8 skills and attributes so you would have strong and weak points, with the strong points synergizing and the weak points covered by the rest of your team. Really, I don't see what you want.

"Break up the different professions"? You mean the professions are somehow played the same way?

Oops! Now I see what you want. You want stupidly overpowered characters, beating players not because of outsmarting them, but just having more stats/equipment than them. Sorry, this isn't why I bought Guild Wars, this isn't why most people bought Guild Wars, this isn't why ArenaNet MADE Guild Wars. I could see some of the "uber equipment" suggestions bearing a PvE only stamp, so you could flaunt just how much monsters you've destroyed with your uber leet sword of doom - perhaps that is what you should be shooting for.

What's the difference between having 20 levels or 40? I've been told WoW doesn't start until level 60. It may as well be level 2. I've played two games, in one you would have to get to level 240(!) before you were considered any decent, and in another you would need at least 10k levels before actually doing anything(Don't ask ). What's the point of these inflated numbers?


Imo, Guild Wars already brings a LARGE crowd looking for a PvP environment, who are running AWAY from games like WoW, where they *NEED* to grind like hell in order to be competitive. This is why your suggestions are PvE oriented, and not PvP, and if you really want to see them, you should be shooting for PvE only modifications, not for "improving the PvP environment".

Peace.

I hope that was sarcasm... Diablo 2 ... man GuildWars is a million times better then diablo 2, oh wait let us all go cow farming till lvl 99

What's the use of upping the level cap to 40?

It's just a useless extension to the 'grind', the results will be the same in the end, every being max level, smashing the same buttons, with the same results.

And, durrr, there was something cool about people cheating their way on level 2 char to Drok's and getting the best armor, and then 'owning' the clueless newbies? o_0;

I would be happy as can be with a ninth skill slot. (Darn you rez sig!)

You can imagine there was 7 skill slots in the beginning, and it was expanded to 8 to give room for the rez sig

That's what'd happen anyways if there was an additional skill slot (omg give us 10th skillslot for rez sig plaz!)



vvv-- There are unique features in MMO's?

They cant implement WoW features into GW due to complex copyright laws, and patents, Blizzard would be VERY quick to get solicitors involved if ANY game company implemented something which even closley resembled a unique feature in their product.

Take a look at the legal battles with Marvel Entertainment and City of Heroes.. no company wants that kind of confrontation, and will make every attempt to avoid it.

guildwars items need more suffixes & prefixes
just my 2 cents

Yeah thats true. I can now picture the whining about people not having 10 slots.

Ubermancer, ditto, except I would like as much storage space as you get in WoW too.

If you want WoW style RPG-gameplay, i sggest you to go play WoW.

All the stuff you mentioned, is about including more luck/chance in GW, which IMO is a very bad idea for a PvP game.

If you want to play MMORPG, play WoW, if you actually want to play competetive and skilled, stay in Guild wars.

Also, i'm pretty sure, that playing a monk in GvG is much harder, than running though som random instance as a L60 priest.

lol thanks for posting that..

I am now wondering where Cantha's closed gates come into play as far as the Exploration/Adventuring are concerned.

Well it seems to me that its is more Adventurous and I explore more when I do the quest/mission needed to get to the next place (ya know, to open the door) how much adventure is there in being run everywhere?(like if the door were always open)

The Truth Itself speaks the truth

If you want WoW features go play WoW.

WoW has so many levels because its pay to play

The more levels you need, the more you have to play, the more you have to play, the more you have to pay, simple economics. The levels are meaningless past a certain point.

That reminds me, I need to figure out something millions of people will gimme $10 bucks a month for while I sit on my ass.

This one's getting old. Just because you can be run somewhere doesn't mean everyone wants to get run somewhere.. It's like saying just because there are places to buy gold that everyone MUST buy gold. I have (as well as several other guildies) explored most of Tyria before doing many of the missions just because we liked to explore. I actually used to explore to the next town before being dropped off by the next mission. I think being dropped off in a town by completing a mission is lame (prophecies-wise, in factions the missions actually physically track to the next city). Before doing Nolani, I 'explored' to Yak's Bend so I had some kind of feeling that I actually made it there instead of being 'carried' there by a mission.

Yet, people still assume that if there were no gats everyone in the game would be 'run' everywhere. Drink some Evian and read it backwards after you're done. I think only fellow Grandmaster Cartographers would understand (people who enjoy exploring enough to go for the title).

I liked the idea of going on top of the Great Dwarf's anvil in northern shiverpeaks. I liked checking out the tengu/dwarf city west of Frost Gate. I liked seeing the Grawl city in souther shiv, the imp village in western kryta, the village in the back of the falls, the Ancient Weapon in the desert, the 'frozen' leviathans and giant squid in the jade sea, the giant treehouse out in eternal grove, the bloodstone-like room in arborstone, the waterfall in the very back of arborstone, the big wall on shing jae, etc etc.. Once I got bored exploring, and made it to the area the next mission would take me to (in prophecies), then I'd do the next piece in the stroyline.

There are decent reasons for the gates, but yours sir is not one of them. Open gates, I promise you, would not have 'forced' my assassin or warrior to be run through the game. I do admit though that open gates would indeed 'allow' my 5th or 6th character to be run to specific spots to cap/play (assuming I didn't just fight my way to those locales in the first place).

Even if you find your way to a location now, you cant get in. You cant just explore now. I got to Kaening center and just started exploring. I got to the gate to vizunah square and couldnt get in. So I had to go get a quest, and go back over places i had already been just to open a gate that I had been to before. On THIS character. That is strange.

/signed - ANet loses more hardcore true gamers who would keep buying expansions and keeping activity going by limiting so many things. Higher level cap is desperately needed and many of the hardcore gamers who are still around (and most likely quickly becoming bored/fading) would love to see it too.

I'm for it. Why not you? Did the cows kill you? :P

Some people actually do ENJOY grinding for levels and being better than others, stronger and more. It breaks away from the common cookie cutter carbon copy mirror image BS that is GW.

this is not a hardcore grindmonkey game.

as for raising the level cap that big level (with more power) is for elitests who cant stand the idea that they dont have a number to prove how superior they are.

They want casual gamers from my take. It's like netflix. They want to casual viewers, not the person that returns them after watching them the day he got them. Those people cost them more money. There's nothing wrong with that being their goal. I think they've said that from the get-go. Hard Core gamers usually realize that and go with the punches.

I agree with you, except to say that I believe those people play other games. Space RPG'ers play EVE Online. Wargamers play other games. Shooters play stuff like Counterstrike.

I've been a hardcore gamer for a long time. I own every Final Fantasy and loved every release. Why? Because there was a ton of content, and a constant challenge. Even after I hit level 99, I could find ways to introduce new challenges all the time. It was a great challenge just to get to level 99 itself. And enjoyable. Even with level 99, there were still a ton of places where regular enemies were level 99 and hard to kill. The idea of strength, endurance, stamina, courage, agility, accuracy, evasion, dexterity, luck and many more where also real, great attributes. There was so much you could do and so many things you could expand with. I loved it, honestly. I've played a lot of computer based RPG games as well. Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Fable, so many others; too many to list. Pretty much all of them let you do tons with your characters. There were always places to explore with great chests (With no stupid need for keys unless the item was guaranteed good), strong monsters, encouraging the right party members, excellent loot, awesome soundtracks and so much more. It was wonderful and why so many of those games had such a high success rate. Explains why WoW has over 6 million and Guild Wars has barely gotten past 1 million. One thing GW did get right to an extent is that of the community. Some of the player base is excellent, especially in the PvE world. The PvP world is all about rank and titles based on rank. Not the best community there. But at least in the PvE world people will help others freely without discrimination, unless that person proves to be a total idiot.

Guild Wars has so many possibilities and so much potential, but the devs at ANet/NCSoft don't seem to care; sadly. I know tons of people who play for about a month, get bored and go find other games to play. That says right there that Guild Wars has a huge issue with lack of content and things to do. Solutions have been mentioned but all the people who whine about having a life try to stop it. If you have a life, don't play games. Stop holding the game back from it's true potential and limitless possibilities. I know people who do tons of things, including games. They'd manage to level up just fine too. The level cap is a thing of stupidity. Raising it would be a real blessing to this game and give people tons of things to do. It would make things like farming and other things far more enjoyable. A few little extra bonuses for doing whatever you do best. It could also introduce new PvP level arenas; like a ladder tournament. The days where your PvE char would also be your PvP char are superb. It means so many things and so many more possibilites. It adds in tons of challenge and makes the game worth playing. Now we have cookie cutter, carbon copy, mirror image BS builds. Instant perfection. Oh, but you can run different skills. So? Clicking a skill to kill something isn't skill. Games like Counter-Strike take skill. Not running up to someone and clicking a button or number means skill. No work goes into it other than unlocking skills from Faction. It's only right that you have to fight to earn your place. That's a part of reality for you. You don't see everyone being equal in the real world do you? We all don't make the same wages, same benefits, and so forth now do we? No. Why? Because that would be cookie cutter, carbon copy, mirror image crap. And guess what. It'd be boring because everyone would be the exact same. That's how Guild Wars is now. Ascending is supposed to be special; but let me tell you. It's nothing special. Just means you turn into a vast majority of being exactly like everyone else. So, how is that fun? Hm, it's not.

I agree.. I am pretty hardcore myself (spent 6k on building a box that I took to QuakeCon last year to get every little frame during the BYOC), but I realize that GW isn't a hardcore game. Solitaire is a good game. There's also so much that can be done to it to compete with Texas Hold'em. However, there's no reason too. GW is not WoW. WoW is not GW. I don't think either wants to be the other. GW isn't even a real MMO, much less one that caters to hardcore gamers. Everyone seems to think that you have to get all the audience or none at all.

For those that want GW to be like WoW: Do any of you play Bejeweled day in and day out? For those that do, have you argued to them that they should cater to the hardcore players like yourself? GW is like Bejeweled (at least that's what they said it was supposed to be like). It just so happens there are indeed some elements in there that cater a bit to the hardcore side, but the game itself doesn't. Bejeweled is doing quit well. GarageGames makes games also that do quite well (as well as an engine). Could they make games that cater to hardcore players? Yes. Do they seem to want to? no. I think some people are just mistaken that this game is the be-all end-all. If they catered to the hardcore side they would lose more of the casual side. They do lose people, but I think quite a few of them are the hardcore players. The people I know that left all left to other games where they could put more effort in and get more (according to them) such as WoW, EVE Online, DnD Online, and even some Vanguard testers..

If GW was monthly fee based then the hardcore gamers would be a good choice to draw in. However, since it's not it is actually better to have content to keep the casual players interested enough to eitherlay slowly and in short bursts until the next release, or play through the chapter and take a break until the next release. This minimizes the amount of bandwidth required. Since there is no monthly fee, people are also not pressured to play to 'get their money's worth) every month, knowing they can come back later.

I bitch and moan too, but I think some people were mistaken about what audience the game is targeted to (PvE-wise anyways). Casual was used quite a bit running up to original release.

To Sacho...

Ok you ALMOST got me, and all you basically did was bring up in your defenses of what you like about guild wars. I have pvp'd i was in top 20 guilds, and am currently in an alliance with top 10 guilds... PVP is great, I love pvp however monking is having a very good internet connection and understanding enery management, that makes it very easy... if your having a hard time with pvp, then i suggest doin pve... pvp is very easy in my honest opinion... get a good group and go with it, you wont have a problem unless your doin top 20 guild battles in which case it comes down to who has the right build and playes it more properly than the other guild...

I feel that Tarun truly understands what I am talking about. Guild wars is going to lose the crowd they have now if tho do not diverisfy the game... they have already brought in a good crowd, 1,000,000+ gamers, take into the consideration of about 100,000 bots(for the obvious ebay reasons) however the number is still amazing, if they would just throw in more bonuses for those who have played the game longer it would be great... which kinda sucks for those with 5-8 million experience, what do they have over somebody with 200k experience? nothing... absolutely nothing... time spent thats it, this game is VERY easy to catch onto and VERY easy to play... thats what guild wars wanted, however you will lose interest very quickly... once you have played other games such as fable, final fantasy, and WoW... you realise that you can actually get lost in those games, it makes guild wars nowhere near as fun. I'm attached to guild wars because I see SOOO MUCH potential for this game that its rediculous!... the graphics are amazing, the sound is amazing, the staff at ANet is amazing... so much here that the staff could expand upon and turn this game into the largest MMO game with so much ease. Granted that would include adapting some of the other MMO qualities, but thats what people pay for!... I dont care how much you want to try and defend this game, if something dramatic doesnt happen aside from the same 'expanding the story-line and adding a couple professions' this game will be turned into another great game turned to dust... mark my words on that... if this game does not become more in-depth or diversified in the next two years, say goodbye to the crowd it has already attracted....

The gates restrict freedom. Plain and simple. Like Cybernigma said, on the 5th or 6th character (in my case probably the third character) I'd pay for the runs.

I have two primary characters that I play (my Monk and Necro). They are the ones that get all the goodies, the best armor, the best weapons, the titles, etc.. Then I have my guild support characters. My guild may shout out that they need a Nuker or Tank or Trapper for a particular mission and I can't help them because I'm not about to grind (yes "grind" - not "adventure") those three characters through missions to get them in a position to help the guild. My guild is forced to take my Monk or Necro and rebuild the group to support my limited character availability.

Such is life.

Those of us who think that WoW is one of the worst games ever made, for starters.

Peace,
-CxE

/cheers and a nod of thanks for stating it so nicely

People talk about raising the level, but are they fully unlocked with PvP ready PvE characters?

Sure you can mindlessly fill a role in high level PvP without know what you are doing, but at some point skill and knowledge of the game kicks in.

How many games out there are filling the niche Guild Wars is looking at? The game is designed with a low barrier of entry but significant high end strategic depth. There are currently a whole host of games that are trying to replicate the success of WoW. Guild Wars is smart to keep what it has and not become a grind game. Grind kills balance. Guild Wars wants to be MtG or StarCraft, not EQ or WoW. Guild Wars should continue to focus on PvP and interesting high end content so that people have something to look forward besides there next level. I for one am happy Guild Wars is free of numbers chasing players who want to achieve leetness by hours played and armor bought.

Very well said. It's a shame that GW caters to those who "have a life" as opposed to the pro/hardcore gamers. Sure, GW has about a 1 million playerbase, but out of them; how many have left because of boredom? And how many were pro gamers? A huge majority, I'm sure. I know for a fact that pro gamers are dedicated. Which means that they would also keep buying new releases and putting forth the money for a good game. But GW is just kinda.. mediocre. It gets boring easily. The other RPG's mentioned above are real games with a lot of quality and everyone enjoys.

I seriously wonder how many play GW just because there is no monthly fee. Would GW lose playerbase if games like Final Fantasy 11 and WoW stopped charging monthly fees? It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

LOL haha I guess grinding for 10 hours a day automatically makes you a "hardcore gamer"

and this is the perfect game for that.

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gam...Game-0000-1243

I'm pretty sure the only reason you're playing GW is because WoW has a monthly fee.

You'd think a hardcore pro gamer would be willing to drop a few bucks a month on a game he spends so much time on.

To the OP

Alot, if not all, of your ideas seem like you want GW to be a WoW that you dont need to pay for. I know you said we would say this but : go play WoW.

So you're a pro hardcore awesomexcore gamer because you like grind????

If wanted 10 skill slots all along, but either way, everyone has the same number of skills it is just a limitation of power.

The use of a vast number of passive stats and attributes are just a mask for poor balance, in the end, it wouldn't make the game better, the characters are more then capable with the very suddle and obvious levels of proficiency, and adding fruitloop flavored statuses doesn't make it any better to play, it just makes it harder to recognize the balance of the game. If characters had seperate levels of evasion, health, defense and attack power you end up rebalancing the entire game and skill use as a whole to incoperate natural differences between classes. Right now all those minut attributes revovle around level, and the players power their characters primarily on skill and attribute choice as well as use, adding alternate levels of 2 dozen attributes to determine the efficiency of each skill and ability totaly redefines the power of classes, if they are different then the balance of skill use and builds is totaly replaced and if they are the same then it is useless.

This is one of those suggestions to totaly betray the current gameplay for something else, Games simply can't do that, it is an attack on the fanbase of players who appreciate the game, losing more support then it gains. Also, emulating the function and gameplay of another, extremely popular game, only draws a smaller gap in gameplay which inevitably brings them to be compared under the same scope, in which case only one will be better, as long as GW is different, no matter how good WoW or other games are, GW will still be enjoyable and provide something you can't get in other games which will preserve its support. Making GW a cop off of some other game isn't an improvement, it is weak and uninspired, we don't need an alternative version of another game, we need something different to choose from, that way people can enjoy variety and have something different to play if they don't like say "WoW".

I left my previous MMO for GW because of the utter lack of enjoyability, poor gameplay and retarded economic/level progression grind, I didn't leave those games for this to turn into one of them.

I would like to see lots of original and enhancing elements added to GW, but trying to replace the current system with something else is unacceptable. Logically, one of the most successful games to date is not going to betray and alter the game mechanics to retrograde into mechanics frequently used by their predicessors, no matter how it may change the game, of which the majority of people playing the game would agree.... that it isn't an improvement.

I am a strong supporter of radical "improvements" to the game, but "replacements" are rarely acceptable, and unless it is replacing a failing or faulty system, replacements should never be considered.

Lets clear up some things first.
Guild Wars = balanced. Blizzard games are not. If you added attack speed/movement speed/other passive attributes, the game would quickly become unbalanced. Look at what happened to D2. When it first came out it was an awesome game to play. When runewords came out, ebayers became gods.

Guild Wars = PvP game.
WoW = pve game.
There arent very many ways to attract WoW players to guild wars while GW has such a stale pve environment. I just 4-manned fissure last night without breaking a sweat.

Even IF they added passive attributes, how would that make characters different? you'd still see warriors with max attack speed, assassins with max critical attacks, and monks with max movement speed.

Ok... those who think I'm playing guild wars because there is no monthly charge, your wrong... I was playing WoW, and came back to guild wars because of their expansion, I just wanted to see how much of the gameplay changed, and there was none... I have two sets of FoW armor, roughly 10 sets of 15K armor, godly weapons and w/e else... I'm rank 6, have UAX'd factions, and prophecies... this game is great for pvp, dont get me wrong, however it has its flaws, I gave up on HoH at the time when it was HoH because IWAY was making it a fame "Grind" yea go off and say w/e you want about grinding for exp/gold, or whatever... because IWAY is the perfect example of what the "grind" does to the game... if ANet were smart they would invest some time into how to remove such idiotic builds... not saying IWAY isnt hard to beat or w/e because I know your gonna try to flame this post the same way you did the others... and those of you who said oh your only playing this because you dont want to pay the monthly fee... speak for yourself.

Please close this thread as it was not taken seriously and has become a place for the natural environment of guild wars players to sit around and look at the outside thinking its all great... and in one year from now when guild wars hasnt changed the gameplay any and people begin to play other MMO's with more gameplay, I will bring this post up and show you all what myself and Tarun are talking about...

wrong.

you two simply dont realize or are not willing to accept that casual players will play for a bit have their fun and remember how much fun the last chapter was and buy the next when it comes out.

you are fixeated on MMO when players come to GW to GET RID OF the MMO things so vital to your self image as *i am better and i have the level number to prove it* and the other grind you love.