Damage reduction of armors

Hi! I have calculated the damage reduction value that our armors give us depending protection armor value. Here are the results:

With an increment of 40 units of armor value we reduce damage in 50%. So we have that 1 unit of armor value give us a (1 - raíz_40(0,5)) * 100 = 1,17179% of damage reduction.

And, finally, we can use this formula:

FD = BD * (0,98282)^(A-60)

where:
FD is the final damage.
BD is the base damage (the damage value that is show on skill descriptions. It refers to damage that will suffer a target with 60 of armor value):
A: protection value of target's armor.
* means multiplication and ^ power.


For example:
I want to know the damage that a flame burst will do to an enemy with 140 of armor value. My fire magic value is 14, so BD = 113 (shown at description). A = 140 so:

DF = 113 * (0,98282)^(140-60) = 28,24.
Rounding off: Final damage = 28.


NOTE:
This formula does to all damage that doesn't ignore armor, with the exception of weapons damage, wich is ranged and we couldn't obtain BD. However, we can calculate the lower bound and the upper bound of damage that a weapon can do if we take BD as min and max value of the range and we add the bonus to it, respectively.

I think you're wrong, but, what the heck is "raiz_40"? Damage reduction isn't linear. As in, 20 more armor doesn't give you 25% damage reduction. You might want to check the article on Combat information:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php

Which states this:
[Actualized Damage] = [Base Damage] × 2(( [Strike Level] - [Armor Level] ) / 40)

Where, for weapons:

[Strike Level] = 5 × [Attribute Level]


For skills:

[Strike Level] = 3 × [Character Level]

Guru and GuildWiki both have damage formulas worked out with some extensive research. Having said that, I'd also point out that someone from ANet pointed out recently that while it is commendable that these things are worked out by the players, not to overly-rely on them as they are likely to change as the game evolves. I believe she was referring to the damage tables in particular. They probably need to be re-worked every release or two to remain accurate (in case of changes), though I'm sure not going to do it lol..

Sorry, raiz is root. By other hand, that formula doesn't says that 20 more armor doesn't give you 25% damage reduction; says that you each point of armor reduces damage in 1,171%, that is, if you have 62 armor points, the Final Damage = (100% - 1,171%) of Final_Damage_of_61_armor_points.

It seems that the formula is equivalent to
excepting the point that I hadn't consider strike level. (It's because I test armors with one strike level only (max for pcharacter).

Question: Say I have 12 Sword Attribute points, with a req 9 sword. Will I do more dmg than if I had 12 Att pts with a req 12 sword?

No.

As long as you meet the requirment of the sword; base damage its the same. Damage further increases from there as you raise your Swordsmanship attribute level, nothing to do with the req of the Sword.

Moreover, you'll find the lower req.skills more expensive in the market (same max dmg tho).

So why in heck does a req 8 cost SO much more than a req 12 weapon when you should have 12 anyway?

Ask P.T. Barnum.

...lmao

For roughly the same reason sundering mods cost more than vamp mods.

It's the "Wammo mentality". There are a good number of idiots out there that measure their success by how close their warrior is to being a FoW wearing w/mo with Mending, Healing Hands, and a perfect 15^50 20/20 sundering +30 heath Fellblade. It's idiotic, because FoW warrior armor looks ugly, sundering sucks, felblades are ugly, and fortitude is not that great a mod, nor is 15^50 (although it works well with most builds, thus the popularity).

Gah, we need more creativity where weapon mods are concerned.

/endrant

Right on most cases except Fortitude is generally the strongest mod and hte same with 15^50. Depending on the build -5 energy is strong but the others are pox.

You completely miss the point. In PvP especially, but ideally also in PvE, you do not take mods that are "generally the strongest". You take the mods that are best for your specific build. In most cases this is actually the "(while enchanted)" or "(while in stance)" mods, depending on your build. 30 health also makes very little difference in most situations; you might be better off with a "Mastery" or "Enchanting" mod, although these make very little difference in PvP just like a "Fortitude" mod.

You may run a build where you are enchanted a great majority of the time, and then, you get a damage bonus! Great! You may be in a stance most of the time or at least when you need the extra damage, and then, you get it! Super! You can get out of a stance and have an enchantment removed, but when will your health be under 50% and you will still be attacking with full force? Never! 15^50 damage mods are just about 15% always, and there is nothing that you can be knocked out of or have removed to cripple your damage except for your life, and if whoever you are facing is running a build where they have all "life removal" skills, then you are doing zero damage anyway because you are dead. No one is going to say "Hey! Get that warrior down to under 50% health so that he does 15% less damage and then stop attacking him!" whereas getting out of a stance or removing an enchantment is realistic and common.

Wrong. 15^50 is not "just about 50% always". It's not even close. In many cases, the ONLY time you will be doing any considerable damage with a weapon is during a coordinated adrenaline spike, which means using Frenzy, which is a stance. Enchantments are supposed to be stacked to protect the essential ones at the bottom, and melee fighters are generally not the targets of enchantment removal anyways. The only two skills I can think of that cancel stances are Wild Blow and Wild Strike, and no one will bring those into PvP. And there will be quite a few times where you're health happens to be at less than half its maximum. Saying that if you've fallen under 50% health that you're going to die is rather pessimistic. Using Endure Pain or a similar skill, 50% health is still quite a bit of health, and just because you fall under that does not mean you are about to die, nor does it mean you should run away if you have some sort of healing on the way. Plus, no one but you actually knows what weapon you're wielding, and they will not strip enchantments and cancel stances JUST on the chance that they can make you do 15% less damage.

Get used to it, people. 15^50% is usually not the best mod for a weapon.

I disagree. Warriors are often not the primary targets in PvP - especially GvG. Midline and backline are. 15/50 is the best mod for warriors. Stances are much more conditional than 50% HP. Enchantment is fine if the build is designed around it (like bonding, Taint, etc).
But overall 15/50 IS THE BEST, especially when warriors have self healing. Yes Frenzy is a great stance, but you can't spam - unless you want to be the target of a spike (one of the few instances where warriors are spikeable by almost any build).

Regarding warriors not getting drain enchant? That is also false. Drain Enchanment are used against warriors as any. Why? Because of positioning. Especially for monk builds.

20% + 1 is a decent mod, but the bonus is heavily conditional and not that high in the long run. And it only affects skills that are being used. Your regular attacks to build up adrenaline are not affected.

Assassin is a class you can make an argument for where 15/50 is not the best (low armor, enchanment dependent, etC).

But for warriors 15/50 is definently the best. High armor, rarely the primary target, rarely DP's out compared to the midline and backline, have self heals, common target for Drain Enchanment, etc.

I think you meant to say that sometimes, this is the case, and that you will be doing the majority of your damage during the spikes. That said, you will be at over 50% health during the spike as well as in a stance. During some spikes, when you overextend or notice enemy warriors eyeing you, you will not be able to use frenzy with a 15% stance mod, so you will not get the damage bonus, although you are still over 50% health.

As a monk, the easiest drain or inspired enchantment target is a warrior because they are the closest and if you can get the enchant by simply pressing "c", then it is ideal and speedy for energy management. Warriors are the first target for monk ench removal and often for others as well because of judges insight and balth aura.

GG. Wild blow used to be incredibly popular to counter trappers and spikes and is still often brought into GvG to knock out distortion or whirling. I suppose if you are a warrior, no one is going to knock you out of your frenzy because they would much rather take the opportunity to kill you, but they can still get you off of your sprint or rush.

Like when? When you are overextended? When you are getting spiked? When you are dead? Yes, your health will eventually drop under 50%, but if your health is that low, you shouldn't be attacking so no matter what your weapon is, it's negligible. You could just as well be using a Rinblade when your health drops that low because you shouldn't attack. Taking damage = time to kite.

You're right. If you have monks on your team, that makes up for the need to kite. Just stand there and keep attacking and if you die it's the fault of the healers. Seriously though, if you are under 50% and still taking damage, you need to run. I will refer you to Warskull's article where he asks and answers the question "what is kiting?" here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3041944. Hopefully it does some good.

No, they will not do it to cancel the damage mod on your weapon, but all stances and enchantments offer them a positive offensive or defensive bonus, and eliminating them will be a priority. They will remove enchantments and knock out stances to take out your benefit from those specific buffs, and if the damage mod goes with it, then so be it, but no one really thinks about it. The stances and enchants are still going to get removed for other reasons.

No.

Yes.

I agree with romO 4827483% x 10^9348394

pray tell me whats wrong with 15^50? i just started war after playing casters cars (such as monky and mes) from betas, so basically i'm just trying to copy all good tanks i ever healed - they had no sundering weapons, smtimes they used +30hp weapons tho, they all had diff shileds so i'm not sure whats the best shield for the average war build, and most of them had 15^50 swords/axes.... i think 15/-10AR is dreadful, but whats wrong with 15^50?

Why is -10 AL dreadful when "Warriors are often not the primary targets in PvP - especially GvG."? Atleast there your damage is consistent while 15^50 is variable...
As for the fortitude mod, I'd rather be reducing the damage over time (not degen) with an armor mod (Defense/Shelter/Warding) rather than have a 30 extra health when my health is less than 50...

You guys are missing the point. 15^50 is not a bad mod. Some mods are just better in the majority of builds. I refuse to keep arguing with people who don't get that. Flame wars are pointless, but like it or not, more often than not there is a better mod than 15^50. Deal with it.

1. There is no build where you are enchanted more than you are health > 50% unless your a wammo. Even using a tainted necro.

2. While in stance, the only stances a war uses in real pvp is frenzy or sprint, neither of which you'll be in more than when your health > 50%.

3. Mastery mods... nobody uses these since the beginning of iway when idiots ran it before being taught.

4. Enchanting mods... what kind of warrior uses any enchants in real pvp let alone ones that an enchanting mod is worth having. (note I'm not talking about wammo nubs and their healing breeze / hands)

In my last post I refuted everything that you had said about the viability of damage mods. What you said in this post is virtually "No", which does not prove to be the strongest arguement. If you want to make your point and show us how any of these other mods could ever be better, you are going to need to start by providing counters to the points that I presented you with.

Or I can just let you bicker with me while I agree with you.

More W/mo hate how orignal so why is sundering crap? you heard of strength thats right 1% for each point so you can have a maxium of 36 armor penatration...oh and judges insight adds an extra 20% on that to = P

so yeah sundering can be good as for your I think FoW and fellblades are ugly and whoever wears them is idiotic please...also I do think +30 hp is very usefull in my opionion.

It seriously pisses me off when people take the piss outta characters just beacuse you've met a few crap players.

Sundering has a 20% chance to cause 20% extra penetration, or 1/5 of the time. That (1) is not all that often and (2) is not that much extra damage unless you're going after a very heavily armored target. Overall I think a mod like Vampiric would do about the same amount of extra damage and that heals you a bit as well.

Also, I happen to play W/Mo quite a bit (odd builds, but W/Mo's nonetheless) and I can tell that you missed my point. This is not "W/Mo hate". This is a rant against every idiot who thinks that people are n00bs unless the have this exact build and this exact equipment because apparently it makes you 10000000 times better than everyone else. It doesn't. Fortitude is a solid mod. 15^50% is a good mod, and the best for overall use, especially in the dynamics of PvE (it just is ever so slightly inferior for many builds in most situations in PvP). I prefer to use something other than Sundering because of it's low damage upgrade, but if you use that, fine with me.

Just don't be one of the idiots in LA 1 spamming "i g0tz t3h bezt gold fellblade in t3h game n00bz b0w to m3" while running arround in your FoW armor. THAT is the "Wammo mentality" that disgusts me.

You might like to know this but if u have two swords 14^50 and 15^50 theres only 1% difference which if u calculate could be rounded up or down so the dmgs are nearly identical

Wow....He's talking about the actual mod's condition, not the damage numbers...
of course you're going to have 15/20% if you're in PvP...

Yeah. I knew that.

You must not be talking about pvp because in pvp, you're almost always going to be in a stance, and unless you brought healing signet, you have no self-healing. (I'm talking about sprint and frenzy...sprint isn't just there for running objects you know )

15^50 is a lot more conditional, because there's absolutely no way to gaurantee that you'll be above 50%, but it's very easy to make sure you're in a stance.

It's good to know that someone seems to have understood what I was saying.

Sundering is crap because it also is conditional, as it only has a 1 in 5 chance of actually doing damage with the mod. Depending on the build, most warriors in PVP/GVG will use either vampiric or zealous (zealous for more energy heavy builds, and vampiric for more adrenaline based builds) as it is a much more reliable mod than sundering.

Most of the time youre only runnign judges insight in a dual smite build, and any mesmer can shatter that enchant, so that is nto a valid argument, and if youre a warrior bringing judges insight, you deserve to be shot IMO. Judges insight is another conditional skil lto be added to your sundering. Blurred vision or blind and it doesnt matter if you have judges or not on, youre not doing the extra armor penetration with judges at all.

Stregnth does add 1% to armor penetration, but most good GVG/PVP builds have verry little in the form of stregnth where as tactics line is abotu the same as str. if running a typical axe build, youre normally at 16/10/10 or 16/9/11 so the str bonus doesnt make up or add to the sundering mod that well.

the FOW armor and fellblade look can be debated, the only plus to the fow armor that now the canthan armors have was the ability to blend diff armors and still keep a unified look so people couldnt always see the exact armor combo and be able to tell the type of war build youre running, although that point is kind of mute due to there being a certian number of builds out there that are truly effective in the current pvp structure.

Yes in pvp a great deal of the time you will be in a stance, yet you do have your monks and normally some form or two of a heal party, so you will normally be above 50% health more than in stance. and when youre not, youre either retreating towards monks or turtling and not attackign either way, so it makes really no difference as to the stance vs 15>50 mod debate.
The -10 armor is dreadful because while not being the primary target in GVG/PVP, you can eb hit for extra damage from AoE spells such as rodgorts that target nearby foes as well. MAelstrom is another good example for bodygaurds. combine this with being in frenzy can really add up too aditional dmg that you dont need to take.

It has been calculated that an ar+5 always is only about the same as a minor rune of absorbtion, although i forgot where i have seen this calculation, so i may be wrong, but in most cases the extra health from a fortitude mod can be much more beneficial against spikes/degen than a defense mod. the only time i would take a defense mod over a fort mod would be if im running a solo PVE build, in which case i agree with you that the mods/dmg mod/suffix.prefix is more conditional than in PVP.