While speaking with a friend of mine, tempting him away from WoW; he mentioned something that made me think that the GW Devs are doing something backwards. Thought I would bring it up for discussion and see if others think the same way.
Games with huge, well decorated outdoor enviroments are often a selling point and a case for the player to go "Wow! This place is huge/gorgeous". Games with smaller areas often get "Ugh, this place is so cramped" and "Grr, two steps and a fight, two steps and a fight. Feels like I'm going no where". - These are responses from me.
Having played many online games in the past, areas I remember the most were in EQ being the Karanas or some of those huge areas on Luclin, Velious, Kunark and so on. The areas were massive and took some time to get across them. While some were barren and devoid of any eye candy, it made them feel "real". Ever go hiking in the rockies and come across something every five seconds?
Chapter 1 had a few areas like this, fairly large and empty. The beauty of GW was that even in those huge areas, there was something to look at. Chapter 2, way to cramped IMO.
Personaly I am hoping for more vastness in future chapters. Discuss/opinions?
PS. forgive any spelling errors, I'm still half asleep.
Nice looking areas, but too small?
WasAGuest
anonymous
My opinion
small = good
because
travel time = bad
If i was going to ever pve i would want an action packed area instead of a place that is just a few more percent towards cartographer.
small = good
because
travel time = bad
If i was going to ever pve i would want an action packed area instead of a place that is just a few more percent towards cartographer.
Yanman.be
CH2 was cramped, because the canthan cities are supposed to be overpopulated...It's like every major Chinese town you see?
The Jade Sea is more open, that might be what you're looking for?
The Jade Sea is more open, that might be what you're looking for?
CyberNigma
I think the first mistake is comparing GW to EQ/2, WoW, and MMORPGs in general. It is more closely related to Diablo/2 and games like Dungeon Siege/2. Even ANet calls it a CORPG. Once you think of it in those terms then it doesn't seem so bad (in comparison). There are still differences between it and Diablo though because of Diablo's randomly-generating dungeons making it seem like there's more.
Jeff mentioned in one of his latest interviews that GW is the kind of game you play for a few months, shelve it, then break it out again when the new chapter comes out. It's more like a tv series (or mini-series) which goes in spurts than a soap opera which is continuous (analogous to an MMORPG where you are compelled to play continuously to make the cost worth it).
I hope that helps answer the question a bit. This season just seems to be a bit cramped, but next season may be different :-)
and yeah to the point of the asian influence being reflected in everything's closeness, it does seem more in line with at least urban China, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Philippines, and Indonesia (the places I've been), though other asian/asian-pacific nations (that I haven't been to) may be different.
Jeff mentioned in one of his latest interviews that GW is the kind of game you play for a few months, shelve it, then break it out again when the new chapter comes out. It's more like a tv series (or mini-series) which goes in spurts than a soap opera which is continuous (analogous to an MMORPG where you are compelled to play continuously to make the cost worth it).
I hope that helps answer the question a bit. This season just seems to be a bit cramped, but next season may be different :-)
and yeah to the point of the asian influence being reflected in everything's closeness, it does seem more in line with at least urban China, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Philippines, and Indonesia (the places I've been), though other asian/asian-pacific nations (that I haven't been to) may be different.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by CyberNigma
I think the first mistake is comparing GW to EQ/2, WoW, and MMORPGs in general.
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Kaineng city, however, is the second-dreariest area in the GW world (second only to that ugly, vast, mob-infested maze in Tyria known as Pockmark Flats), and not really a good indicator of PvE in GW.
CyberNigma
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Well, I've not played WoW, but for what it's worth, the mob-density is at least as high if not higher in EQ2 as it is in GW.
Kaineng city, however, is the second-dreariest area in the GW world (second only to that ugly, vast, mob-infested maze in Tyria known as Pockmark Flats), and not really a good indicator of PvE in GW. |
Traveller
I would like more open and larger areas, but certainly not filled with mobs. Exploration would be nice, more areas like Dragon's Gullet and The Falls and less areas like Kaineng City-maze with huge mobs in several levels.
EndoftheSyringe
Yes, I agree. Places like the Falls are so awesome because... you don't even have to go there. It's just eye candy. I go out of my way to get to The Falls just to take screenshots of my characters in there. I have to say that sometimes I favor the gorgeous colors and looks of WoW, but when I'm hanging out in the southern shiverpeaks or maguuma jungle, I love to just stand there and look around. I can't say the same for factions... I've never once been compelled to just stop and stare. It seems like everything is too cramped.
Hyper Cutter
For the love of God, I hope they never make another place like Kaineng City. It's ugly and boring and there are enemies EVERYWHERE.
JoeKnowMo
The large open spaces in Ch 1 really gave me a sense of being immersed in an environment. This feeling, unfortunately, is rare in Ch 2.
CyberNigma
Some of my favorite places in Cantha: Gyala Hatchery, Shing Jae Island, anywhere near yeti, the valley, buttRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO byway, wajjun bazaar.
I like the crowds of npcs out in the byway and bazaar.. I hate the skyway, the in-town missions, and especially the undercity (except watching that boss and his dancing girls :-)..
I like the crowds of npcs out in the byway and bazaar.. I hate the skyway, the in-town missions, and especially the undercity (except watching that boss and his dancing girls :-)..
WasAGuest
Thanks for all the posts. If I came across as comparing GW to other games, I didn't mean to sound that way. I was mearly comparing enviroments or lack there of. I meantioned EQ as that was the one I played the most of years ago... I have no love for the game now and am quite content with GW. My only wish is that there were more to it, ala, less Diablo fight every step of the way and more openess.
I have finished Chapter 2 through Luxon and Kurzick sides with 5 characters now, so I've seen most of the areas (Elite missions missing) - there just wasn't a sinlge area (minus the above mentioned Falls) to stop and admire as it was just too packed and "squished".
I have finished Chapter 2 through Luxon and Kurzick sides with 5 characters now, so I've seen most of the areas (Elite missions missing) - there just wasn't a sinlge area (minus the above mentioned Falls) to stop and admire as it was just too packed and "squished".
beanerman_99
What makes a vast place so great? Sure some areas can look nice and the scenery is ok. But I personally need there to be a reason for me to go there. Will I find a chest or treasure there? Will I find a boss monster there?
I like most of Factions because they give you a reason to go most places. Chapter 1 had too many areas that were nice to look at, Like the Falls and such, but there was really no reason to go there outside of just plain old exploring. How many people went to Majesty Rest numerous times before Rotscale began dropping greens. How many times did people ventrue into Dragon's Gullet unless they were doing the endgame quest or clearing the map?
You say World of Warcraft seems more "vast". Having not played it I would only ask "What makes you go out into those vast areas?" Are there new towns out there? New treasures? Just asking because in my mind "vast" could very easily become boring IMO.
edit: Just wanted to add that I do agree with some areas in Factions being to cramped and monster packed. So packed that is difficult to actually see the scenery because of all the monster mobs roaming about. Morstov (sp?) Trail in Kurzik territory is one such place. Lord you can't take 2 step without aggroing 5 seperate groups of monsters. Annoying to say the least. So I do understand what you are saying...just wonder about other games and if Vast=fun?
I like most of Factions because they give you a reason to go most places. Chapter 1 had too many areas that were nice to look at, Like the Falls and such, but there was really no reason to go there outside of just plain old exploring. How many people went to Majesty Rest numerous times before Rotscale began dropping greens. How many times did people ventrue into Dragon's Gullet unless they were doing the endgame quest or clearing the map?
You say World of Warcraft seems more "vast". Having not played it I would only ask "What makes you go out into those vast areas?" Are there new towns out there? New treasures? Just asking because in my mind "vast" could very easily become boring IMO.
edit: Just wanted to add that I do agree with some areas in Factions being to cramped and monster packed. So packed that is difficult to actually see the scenery because of all the monster mobs roaming about. Morstov (sp?) Trail in Kurzik territory is one such place. Lord you can't take 2 step without aggroing 5 seperate groups of monsters. Annoying to say the least. So I do understand what you are saying...just wonder about other games and if Vast=fun?
Takkun
Well if you want to travel for 30 min without fighting anything, then go to WoW. If you want every step you take in the wilderness to be a challenge, then play Guild Wars. These games have two different philosophies with this sort of thing. Time for you to decide.
dreamhunk
I agree with the op!
Mister Overhill
Yeah, some areas of GW are like an arcade shooter without the BFG. Fewer, but RANDOM mobs would make it more interesting and increase the replayability factor.
Dawgboy
I've had factions for a month or 2 and liked newb island, but the mainland is just horrible. I just can't get into it like I did chapter 1. All the cramped streets, roof-top walking and dead-ends don't do a thing for me.
I'm glad to hear it gets better later on- so far I've only completed a few missions before giving up and going back to Prophesies. Just how far do you have to go to get away from the ghetto?
I'm glad to hear it gets better later on- so far I've only completed a few missions before giving up and going back to Prophesies. Just how far do you have to go to get away from the ghetto?
Overnite
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Originally Posted by beanerman_99
You say World of Warcraft seems more "vast". Having not played it I would only ask "What makes you go out into those vast areas?" Are there new towns out there? New treasures? Just asking because in my mind "vast" could very easily become boring IMO.
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Angelica
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Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
For the love of God, I hope they never make another place like Kaineng City. It's ugly and boring and there are enemies EVERYWHERE.
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Originally Posted by Dawgboy
..................................... liked noob island, but the mainland is just horrible. I just can't get into it like I did chapter 1. All the cramped streets, roof-top walking and dead-ends don't do a thing for me. I'm glad to hear it gets better later on- so far I've only completed a few missions before giving up and going back to Prophesies. Just how far do you have to go to get away from the ghetto?
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I cannot make myself to re-do the mission with any of my other characters just because of the very long time it takes to get out of Kaineng City!
Solange
Do you think The Guild Wars graphic engine could pull off something like Elwynn forest in WOrld of Warcraft???
Its a big forest area in WoW that was very big and atmospheric
I"ve seen Guild Wars have very large areas which are seen in areas like the CRYSTAL DESERT...
Why the restrictions in Hunting areas?
Keep the towns small but have the explorable areas nice and large?
Its a big forest area in WoW that was very big and atmospheric
I"ve seen Guild Wars have very large areas which are seen in areas like the CRYSTAL DESERT...
Why the restrictions in Hunting areas?
Keep the towns small but have the explorable areas nice and large?
samifly
I would love areas without mobs for a change - just so I can explore. get so sick and tired of fighting mobs all the time. At least in Tyria you could usually avoid mobs if you wanted to.
BowLad21
I miss the prophecies feel of open fields. Factions seemed way too cramped. Every time I took a step, it was into a wall or into an enemy. Even the luxon side had large boudlers, making it feel like a maze.
jackie
I had my first sense of freedom when coming out of the KC to Pongmei Valley, then another breeze was in Southern Jade Sea.
I'm not sure why devs are making areas quite linear but it might just be a technical issue, i.e engine is not capable of doing huge areas without some kind of narrow paths that you have to follow etc...
I'm not sure why devs are making areas quite linear but it might just be a technical issue, i.e engine is not capable of doing huge areas without some kind of narrow paths that you have to follow etc...
WasAGuest
I agree with what beanerman_99 is saying, though keep in mind I've never played WoW. I'm luring a friend away from it (trying to anyway). I only referenced EQ's (as I had played that one) vastness. What's so great about them? Dunno, this is all about one's opinion anyway. I like em, I don't like being squished. heh
lol - decide what? I wasn't complaining, I was asking for others opinions as I was curious if others thought the same way. I will decide to go to bed now though, after a 12 hour GW day. 
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Originally Posted by Takkun
Well if you want to travel for 30 min without fighting anything, then go to WoW. If you want every step you take in the wilderness to be a challenge, then play Guild Wars. These games have two different philosophies with this sort of thing. Time for you to decide.
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Nevin
Anyone else notice the wave pattern in the jade sea doesn't make sense at all? They basically use the "cool" giant detailed waves was walls and thats it... Resulting in a closing in effect... And waves push outwards, not inwards.
-Loki-
When they were making Sorrows Furnace, they said they got a better response form players if an area was small and densely packed. Expect more small areas with lots of enemies and things to do, with occasional huge, wide open areas.
Shanaeri Rynale
I prefer the large sweeping landscapes of Ch1. Even in the 'hidden' areas such as the bonus areas of Dunes the dev put things to see. It's as tho every inch of terrain had love and attention to it. Secret Glint Statues, the view from Anvil rock, hidden temples and mighty bosses await in Ch1. For GW:F these are in very short supply.
It's strange but I still go to Ch1 for my screenshots..
It's strange but I still go to Ch1 for my screenshots..
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by jackie
I'm not sure why devs are making areas quite linear but it might just be a technical issue, i.e engine is not capable of doing huge areas without some kind of narrow paths that you have to follow etc...
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If the world was a big open space, it'd be possible to run from start to finish without fighting, and people would, then spend their time bitching about the lack of content.
WoW doesn't have this problem because it's partitioned by levels instead. Low-level players simply can't do high-level content, and there are 60 levels, sufficient to corral players to suitable areas. In Guild Wars you reach level 20 quickly, and you're anyway capable of killing enemies 8-10 levels above you, so it'd be possible to, say, do the Canthan end game mission immediately after leaving Shing Jea island.
Hence corridor maps and doors.
EDIT: That said, I completely agree with Shanaeri Rynale - Ch1 just seems to have been designed with more love. Of course, Ch1 was 3 years in development, ch2 less than one year, so that may be a factor.
Lets Get to Healing
I'd like a mixture, if possible
Overnite
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| Do you think The Guild Wars graphic engine could pull off something like Elwynn forest in WOrld of Warcraft??? |
J3mo
The only nice areas in Factions are in The Jade Sea imo, the city sucks and the Kurzick area is so so
lexandro of Albion
i have to agree with the general sentiment here. Factions is overly cramped and a very small world. When i first started playing gw it was just before the halloween special and if i wanted to see it i had to go from ascalon to lions arch in 12 hours. (not really hard to a hardcore player but tough enough for a newb).
The traveling to lions arch over the shiverpeeks was for me an epic adventure as i didnt know at the time that co-op missions placed you in towns after completion. So i travelled the whole way in the normal area's, and the feeling of wide open spaces and snowy paths was a good one.
When i first started factions (on release day) i had a horrible time even finding my way from kianeng city to vizunah square, the city itself is a maze that is extermely annoying. The use of gates that need the primary quest was an interesting one but i myself find it rediculous that adventurers in cantha have to do the co-op missions to progress through the map. The whole of cantha seems tiny by comparison to prophecies, and this is what really annoy's me. Sure factions was only a year in development but they already had a game engine and characters developed from prophecies, so its not THAT hard to make a game world in a year ( indeed other companies seem to manage fine once they have a game engine to add things to).
As for chapter 3 i probably will buy it when it comes out but if its like like factions with every monster team set up as a pvp based , then i simply wont play gw anymore as i dont want to PvP / GvG or even AvA but simply explore and and find my own way in the world. This is the essence of adventuring , exploration and and battleling againts VARIED creatures (not the same bloody teams over and over eg jade brotherhood) Cmon Anet stop pandering to the pvp and gvg people who screem WE NEED MORE! because this is alianating a massive part of the gaming community who enjoy the monster bashing.
cmon anet buck your ideas up , if ure stuck for content ASK US THE GAMERS!
The traveling to lions arch over the shiverpeeks was for me an epic adventure as i didnt know at the time that co-op missions placed you in towns after completion. So i travelled the whole way in the normal area's, and the feeling of wide open spaces and snowy paths was a good one.
When i first started factions (on release day) i had a horrible time even finding my way from kianeng city to vizunah square, the city itself is a maze that is extermely annoying. The use of gates that need the primary quest was an interesting one but i myself find it rediculous that adventurers in cantha have to do the co-op missions to progress through the map. The whole of cantha seems tiny by comparison to prophecies, and this is what really annoy's me. Sure factions was only a year in development but they already had a game engine and characters developed from prophecies, so its not THAT hard to make a game world in a year ( indeed other companies seem to manage fine once they have a game engine to add things to).
As for chapter 3 i probably will buy it when it comes out but if its like like factions with every monster team set up as a pvp based , then i simply wont play gw anymore as i dont want to PvP / GvG or even AvA but simply explore and and find my own way in the world. This is the essence of adventuring , exploration and and battleling againts VARIED creatures (not the same bloody teams over and over eg jade brotherhood) Cmon Anet stop pandering to the pvp and gvg people who screem WE NEED MORE! because this is alianating a massive part of the gaming community who enjoy the monster bashing.
cmon anet buck your ideas up , if ure stuck for content ASK US THE GAMERS!
jackie
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
No, the engine is quite obviously capable of it (since such areas exist), the corridor thing is to increase the amount of time needed to finish an area.
If the world was a big open space, it'd be possible to run from start to finish without fighting, and people would, then spend their time bitching about the lack of content. WoW doesn't have this problem because it's partitioned by levels instead. Low-level players simply can't do high-level content, and there are 60 levels, sufficient to corral players to suitable areas. In Guild Wars you reach level 20 quickly, and you're anyway capable of killing enemies 8-10 levels above you, so it'd be possible to, say, do the Canthan end game mission immediately after leaving Shing Jea island. Hence corridor maps and doors. EDIT: That said, I completely agree with Shanaeri Rynale - Ch1 just seems to have been designed with more love. Of course, Ch1 was 3 years in development, ch2 less than one year, so that may be a factor. |
CyberNigma
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Originally Posted by samifly
I would love areas without mobs for a change - just so I can explore. get so sick and tired of fighting mobs all the time. At least in Tyria you could usually avoid mobs if you wanted to.
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CyberNigma
One thing people do have a point on though is that creatively (play-wise), the Factions team is definitely inferior to the Prophecies team. Their idea of increasing difficulty is not through complexity, but rather throwing in random mobs of oni capable of wiping out a party of henchies. The 'not wanting uber-henchies' doesn't apply for making the game difficulty. They definitely know how to make uber random spawn mobs to wipe out non-player teams.
WasAGuest
One thing I noted as posted about Sorrows Furnace, is that people liked it cramped. I think the reason for that was that it was a cave. Caves, crypts, dungeons and the like should be cramped and clausterphobic. Not the open areas of the out doors. The inner city of Factions doesn't "feel" like a city, as many others here have agreed, it feels like a maze, not a city.
I will also agree that the Factions team was far inferior to the Chap 1 team. It almost feels the entire team spent all their game time in GvG or something and it showed through the squished, gotta get into the action fast and non-stop fighting maps. This is good for caves and such (as I stated above); but the outdoors should allow for and have a great deal of exporation - even for no other reason than just to have. My opinion of course.
Keep the thoughts coming. Good stuff.
I will also agree that the Factions team was far inferior to the Chap 1 team. It almost feels the entire team spent all their game time in GvG or something and it showed through the squished, gotta get into the action fast and non-stop fighting maps. This is good for caves and such (as I stated above); but the outdoors should allow for and have a great deal of exporation - even for no other reason than just to have. My opinion of course.
Keep the thoughts coming. Good stuff.
jackie
Personaly I don't find the city to be too difficult with henchies, on the other hand it feels like playing GW with those annoying random encounters ala Final Fantasy style RPGs. Meaning that when you go out to the city, you have to fight for almost every inch ^_^...
That makes exploration in the city a little bit tedious sometimes.
That makes exploration in the city a little bit tedious sometimes.
Cjlr
Oh, but the city is brilliant! It's not the nicest place, but it is definately inspired game design. Plus, every so often, you can come across an open plaza, or some of the original beautiful architecture standing out from the ramshackle towers of what looks like cardboard and mud.
But Factions doesn't have the wide open range of some of Prophecies did. If you ever went from Temple of Ages to Druid's Overlook you'll know what I'm talking about. Not to mention the zones that did nothing. There's all sorts of great, out of the way places. Like Tears of the Fallen. That's probably my favorite place in the entire game. Is there any reason to go there? None at all.
Also, doesn't the Jade Sea seem a little small and have way too many islands to be much of a sea?
But Factions doesn't have the wide open range of some of Prophecies did. If you ever went from Temple of Ages to Druid's Overlook you'll know what I'm talking about. Not to mention the zones that did nothing. There's all sorts of great, out of the way places. Like Tears of the Fallen. That's probably my favorite place in the entire game. Is there any reason to go there? None at all.
Also, doesn't the Jade Sea seem a little small and have way too many islands to be much of a sea?