Why is Punishing Shot an elite?

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

I happened to cap Punishing Shot for my ranger today, and after I got it I realized it's basically Savage Shot with longer recharge & lower damage, but does damage not just against spells but also skills.
I know there's plenty of weak elites, but frankly Punishing Shot seems worse than non-elite Savage Shot. What am I missing here?

Canadian Bacon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Ontario, Canada

Kingdom of Tyria [KoT]

The fact that it affects all skills, not just spells, is significant. It means you can interupt Rez Sig, Healing Sig, Troll unguent, etc.

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

Even if you miss to interrupt a skill, you do more dmg.

noob4sure

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Middle of nowhere, U.S.A.

[LGBT]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon
The fact that it affects all skills, not just spells, is significant. It means you can interupt Rez Sig, Healing Sig, Troll unguent, etc. Savage shot also interrupts skills, Rez Sig, Healing Signet, Troll Unguent, etc.
It just does more damage if it interrupts a spell.

Wolydarg

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

I Excentrix I [PuNK]

R/

As noob4sure stated, savage will only do more damage if it interrupts a spell, Punishing interrupts everything and deals a hefty damage with each shot, definitely not a bad skill...

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

I love Punishing Shot

Unconditial damage that happens to interrupt. Great for that godly spam interrupting and still getting a damage boost.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Since the extra damage is only about +22 every 8 seconds (assuming it's used as soon as it recharges), it really isn't incredibly great as a damage skill, though it is nice. In my opinion, the best thing Punishing Shot is that you can fit 3 interupt skills in your bar at a time or have more variety than just Distracting Shot with Savage Shot.

What makes it worthy of an elite skill is that it essentially combines two skills into one. It allows you to increase your damage and interupt at the same time. Think of it like making Power Shot and Savage Shot combine at the expense of a little extra recharge time.

Xasew

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Storm Bearers[SB]

RSpike uses Punishing for a reason. Dual+PS does nice damage extremely quick.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

Broadhead arrow FTW

Nivryx

Nivryx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Kenya

Mo/

also when interupting having 3 interupt skills instead of 2 is better =] then again...

Quote:
Broadhead arrow FTW /agree

monkey grip

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Nefarious Coterie [Cult]

R/

you can keep broad arrow, punishing shot is the best elite for ranger IMHO

Dyon Adell

Dyon Adell

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Tyria

Gamer Edge(TRE)

R/Me

Haha, it sucks, you say? Gawd, I agree with monkey grip. I used to think Poison Arrow was the best. Until I seriously started using Punishing Shot, the more I used it, the more I discover its potentials and threats. Maybe I'm bad at describing but I feel Punishing Shot is fantastic... beyond words.

1) As mentioned above, it's great for spiking because of its release time. Dishing 3 arrows under 1.5s is no joke with those preps and FW. Get a couple of rangers, and before he or she can press for heal, the opponent's health bar is zero.

2) You might think PS is just another average spam attack skill in your skillbar, but if you put yourself in the opponent's shoes, you'll find yourself really stressed. It's a mind game. You'd hesitate when to release your strongest move, and that decreases your effectivity alot because GW is a game on good strat and quick thinking and response.

3) Honestly you'd be irritated enough if a normal attack was interrupted, not to mention a crucial skill like a stance or prep. I've been interrupted by warrior thumpers before and I hate that feeling. I know how it feels to be interrupted by PE when sometimes you don't even see your opponent. You're about to defeat the opposing melee opponent, when suddenly an attack of yours is interrupted, and you lose instead.

You might say Savage Shot can do the job as well, you don't need PS as an elite. The thing about PS is that it's an EXTRA interrupt on top of Savage Shot, that does even more damage on general. PS can be spammed with Dual Shot, where as SS must be carefully used with hesistation and quick response as a requirement. And if you think about it, if an opposing team's ranger has 2 powerful interrupts on him, you'd be nailing or watching him the entire battle. And to put it into practical usage, if you have 2 interrupts you don't even have to worry what you're interrupting, just spam! Suppose Warrior A is meleeing Warrior B, and Warrior C is helping Warrior A. Ranger A helps Warrior B. In an intensive battle of double-team, let's say Under 10s, each warrior makes 7 moves. Warrior A and C dt Warrior B, for a total of 12 moves under 10s. Ranger A and Warrior B dt Warrior A 14 moves under 10s. Your rate of attack is already interrupted even if it isn't a crucial skill being interrupted. Unless there's a very significant in skill between the two duos, it's unlikely Warrior A and Warrior C will win the duel. I'm talking about non-thumpers here, to make calculations easier.

Wooh! Long story. Shows my passion of PS, after discovering it. I'm addicted to it in short. It's the reason why I refuse to move away from spike build. =p

For those who read through that whole chunk, thanks for the patience.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

I think the argument between Broadhead and Punishing shot comes down to this:

If you're going against strong single targets that cast a lot of spells quickly, the best choice to interupt them is Broadhead Arrow.

Any other situation, you're probably better off with Punishing Shot.

BrutusV

BrutusV

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Aequitas Deis [AD] http://aequitasdeis.guildportal.com

W/N

It would be overpowered if it's not an elite. Imagine having punishing + savage with say choking gas + oath shot, or tiger's fury + incendiary arrows? Your opponent wouldn't get a single attack or skill off.

monkey grip

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Nefarious Coterie [Cult]

R/

for interupting and spiking, you almost have to have punishing shot.

what i have been using is punishing shot, maruaders, distracting, savage, and precision, stance (distrotion), trolls, and whatever

the key is to make you oppnent react to your forst probing shot, if they don't do anything, pop em with marauders, they see they are taking some semi-serious dmg, then you have 3 interupts waiting, one with good dmg (punishing), one for skill shutdown/interupting, and then savage with damage and interupting.

might want to take savage or distracting out, because usually after you firs off maraunder and punishing, and one other, punishing is rdy to go again.

i don't know, i am probably talking out the rectum here, but its been my strat with it for awhile, of and if you are henching, take Aurora the longbow henchmen, she alwasy throws dow favorable winds, or what ever that spirit is for plus dmg on arrows.

EDIT: its also a hard cap for a factions noewcomers!

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
Broadhead arrow FTW Against what? Sure... against the new bosses in Factions Broadhead Arrows is DEFINATLY ftw. Its the only sure fire way to interrupt Starbusrt, Silver Armour, RoF, Shield Guardian, Shockwave (etc). Against things that don't have double cast speed, Punishing Shot ftw, plus can be timed in attempts to interrupt warriors.

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
<snip> I agree. BHA is great to take when you know you are going to be fighting a nasty boss (ie... Boras Seabed), but I'm not to keen on its use all the time.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I agree. BHA is great to take when you know you are going to be fighting a nasty boss (ie... Boras Seabed), but I'm not to keen on its use all the time. As in the final boss you have to kill? You can kill that with any interrupt... If you mean Argo, Punishing still works better imo, nothing he does is cast faster than 1s.

The main question then though is, Is the ability to utterly pwn a caster boss worth using your elite slot? If your with henchman or a specific guild/alliance team. Possibly. But generally, Barrage or Punishing shot would be alot more productive for the rest of the trip. If its a short trip, BHA obviously wins in terms of usefulness.

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

OK, I can sortof see what you guys mean.

Marauders & Melandrus Shot do almost twice as much damage, and Savage recharges in almost half the time - but Punishing does decent damage and interrupts all in one.

I still feel it's weak for an elite, but I'll take it out for a spin and maybe that'll change my mind.

AndrewAtHome

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Leeds, UK

Trinity Of The Ascended [ToA]

R/

Not only is it an elite.. but it looks damn hard to cap. You'd need to run all the way to the top half of snake dance (from beacons or rankor). I'm really not looking forward to capping this..

Sha Noran

Sha Noran

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

http://tinyurl.com/2jlusq

Idiot Savants [iQ]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilSod
If you mean Argo, Punishing still works better imo, nothing he does is cast faster than 1s. Argo's Cry>Noobs

Anyhow, to the OP: You hadn't even tried it? It's not wise to judge skills you haven't even tried.

BHA has its extremely good uses (i.e. Canthan caster bosses, as has been stated) but a skilled player makes Punishing Shot work for him in all situations. In my opinion, as someone has already stated, Punishing Shot is the best PvE Ranger Elite. Period. Nothing else is as versitile or, quite accurately, Punishing to the enemy.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

Punishing shot: If Punishing Shot hits, you strike for +10...18 damage and your target is interrupted.

broadhead arrow: You shoot a broad head arrow that moves slower than normal. If it hits, target foe is Dazed for 5...17 seconds, and if target foe is casting a Spell that Spell is interrupted.

put broadhead on same skill bar with savage shot and you have so many more possiblities! now u can quikly daze that anoing mesmer, and move on to the warior using heal sig, knowing that even if u dont wach the mesmer is temporary out of game, because every wand hit interrupts him....

well, pretty much any caster imo would resign if woud see that 2 rangers have broadhead arrow on their skillbar

Zinger314

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

I would prefer BHA for most Factions bosses, as many are hard to interrupt with their fast casting.

Valerius

Valerius

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canada

R/

imo... BHA is for no0bs who can't time their Concussion Shots right :P

Punishing Shot ftw!

Valkyries

Valkyries

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

AoM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius
imo... BHA is for no0bs who can't time their Concussion Shots right :P

Punishing Shot ftw! Kinda have to agree with this...

I don't really think BHA is for noobs per say.... but if you are comparing the two, then yes this statement is true.

However BHA DOES have its uses. Its just not half as good as Punishing Shot. PS, is awesome and is the best Ranger elite by far IMO.

Reikai

Reikai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

R/

If you can't land concussion shot, BHA is not going to help you one bit.
Oh, and good luck landing BHA on a target -_-

Dyon Adell

Dyon Adell

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Tyria

Gamer Edge(TRE)

R/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
As in the final boss you have to kill? You can kill that with any interrupt... If you mean Argo, Punishing still works better imo, nothing he does is cast faster than 1s.

The main question then though is, Is the ability to utterly pwn a caster boss worth using your elite slot? If your with henchman or a specific guild/alliance team. Possibly. But generally, Barrage or Punishing shot would be alot more productive for the rest of the trip. If its a short trip, BHA obviously wins in terms of usefulness. I would suggest you read my evaluation on PS.

Punishing is not just an interrupt... it's also a good combo with Dual Shot and a skill that plays mind games with your opponent.

I would believe every Elite skill is powerful if you knew how to use it. Take Quick Shot for example. I really used to think it's truly the most useless Elite. 5 energy for an arrow of double speed?! It doesn't even add damage, it's truly a wastage when you can use something devastating like Fevered Dreams(for R/Me) as the Elite Skill. But after some thought, I managed to visualize FW being combined with RTW. You get an arrow moving at at times the original speed.32 energy, you use them all up, you'll dish out 6 arrows with +16 damage at a much shorter time than most people can.

Sha Noran

Sha Noran

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

http://tinyurl.com/2jlusq

Idiot Savants [iQ]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reikai
If you can't land concussion shot, BHA is not going to help you one bit. Ummm why is that again?

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Because someone forgot that BHA gives dazed, which dramatically slows casting and makes subsequent interrupts from normal attacks much easier, as well as it's inherent interrupt.

Both have uses... Punishing with other interrupts is a more powerful and painful spell stopper... if you can time them well. BHA on the other hand only needs 1 skill (not counting prep) to shut down a caster to an extent (other people hitting him etc), using less slots and more reliable, though note that it can be removed.

Depends on playstyle imo.

Skuld

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

Punishing is easy to cap, much more so than any of the mursaat elites

monkey grip

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Nefarious Coterie [Cult]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reikai
If you can't land concussion shot, BHA is not going to help you one bit.
Oh, and good luck landing BHA on a target -_- i hate the word noob, and i hate refering to people like that, but when i saw the description for BHA, i was excited, i thought it would be THE elite to have now.

After I got it, i realized that punishing, and concusion have better and more consistent results.

therefore i came to the conclusion that the devs put BHA in for unskilled interupters.

Dyon Adell

Dyon Adell

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Tyria

Gamer Edge(TRE)

R/Me

Punishing Shot is a smooth, handy, destructive and a must-have elite. When use properly, it makes or breaks your team. Use it more and you'll get addicted to it like me, lol.

Punish your foes with it!

Almighty Zi

Almighty Zi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Cheltenham, England

Servants Of Fortuna Victrix

Broadhead arrow is nothing more than comp arena trash. Unconditional (apart from the fact that it has to hit) daze is just cheap comp arena tactics and this is why I hate this skill - even though I'm a real fan of the ranger. The fact that it travels slowly is of no consequence as rangers will often run and stand right next to their target before unleashing it. I'd take concussion shot over this, its a non-elite and if you can't interupt that ele's fireball with it then go play another profession. Sorry, went off topic.

Punishing shot, as folk have already mentioned, has bonus damage whenever it interupts any skill - thats why its elite - plus the fact that you could have three non-elite bow interupts on your bar plus another elite skill would be unfair in my opinion.

On the subject of ranger interupts, I dislike the fact that they are spammable and do damage regardless of whether you interupt anything with them or not. There's no consequence of missing an interupt like there is with memser interupts - for example if you miss power spike you don't do any damage and waste 10 energy or if you miss a powerdrain you don't get the energy, whereas ranger interupts are relatively cheap and there's no real consequence if you miss the interupt as you still do damage with the arrow itself. This is why you will see a lot of rangers just spam them in hope of catching a skill and in fact a lot of the time they do just because the interupts are being spammed. I bet there's a lot of monks with 1/4 second spells that have been interupted a few times just because of luck on the ranger's part. This is why I think there should be something to deter spamming of these skills, such as you lose 5 energy if the interupt bow attack fails to interupt a skill. Anet tried to deter spamming of these skills by implementing a slight pause after each skill but this hasn't really solved the issue.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
well, pretty much any caster imo would resign if woud see that 2 rangers have broadhead arrow on their skillbar Or they would just kite...

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey grip
therefore i came to the conclusion that the devs put BHA in for unskilled interupters. Or possibly because mob bosses do double damage and have half cast-time. Even Healing Seeds gets somewhat challenging to interrupt when it gets a 1 second cast time, and good luck consistently interrupting 0.5 second casts like Orizon.
Monk and mesmer bosses: that's where BHA shines.

KillerGuitar666

KillerGuitar666

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Eternal Sorrows

R/Me

Punishing shot is the only ranger elite i use

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

PvE = BHA
PvP = PS

This is what I think for now. Anyway, its kinder stupid to try using BHA with a Flatbow.

Sir Mad

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

R/

Quote:
I bet there's a lot of monks with 1/4 second spells that have been interupted a few times just because of luck on the ranger's part. This is why I think there should be something to deter spamming of these skills, such as you lose 5 energy if the interupt bow attack fails to interupt a skill. Anet tried to deter spamming of these skills by implementing a slight pause after each skill but this hasn't really solved the issue. Actually ANET nerfed ranger spike with this pause, I dont think they had in mind the spamability of the rangers interupts. I dont think it has to be nerfed.

Reikai

Reikai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Or possibly because mob bosses do double damage and have half cast-time. Even Healing Seeds gets somewhat challenging to interrupt when it gets a 1 second cast time, and good luck consistently interrupting 0.5 second casts like Orizon.
Monk and mesmer bosses: that's where BHA shines. it might not be as easy in PvE to interupt as well... in general the enemies dont move around as much *one of the most important things for me in interuption is how the opponent moves.* as well as the fact that their animations arn't really drilled into my head yet. However, it is probably much more predictable in PvE, so meh.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey grip
i hate the word noob, and i hate refering to people like that, but when i saw the description for BHA, i was excited, i thought it would be THE elite to have now.

After I got it, i realized that punishing, and concusion have better and more consistent results.

therefore i came to the conclusion that the devs put BHA in for unskilled interupters.
I hate it when others sink down to calling others noobs, but I do have to agree that BHA is a lot like a those things they put in the gutters at the bowling allies for kids.

/agreed


Quote:
Originally Posted by Almight Zi
On the subject of ranger interupts, I dislike the fact that they are spammable and do damage regardless of whether you interupt anything with them or not. There's no consequence of missing an interupt like there is with memser interupts - for example if you miss power spike you don't do any damage and waste 10 energy or if you miss a powerdrain you don't get the energy, whereas ranger interupts are relatively cheap and there's no real consequence if you miss the interupt as you still do damage with the arrow itself. This is why you will see a lot of rangers just spam them in hope of catching a skill and in fact a lot of the time they do just because the interupts are being spammed. I bet there's a lot of monks with 1/4 second spells that have been interupted a few times just because of luck on the ranger's part. This is why I think there should be something to deter spamming of these skills, such as you lose 5 energy if the interupt bow attack fails to interupt a skill. Anet tried to deter spamming of these skills by implementing a slight pause after each skill but this hasn't really solved the issue. When it comes down to it, skill wise, the ranger does simply have an overall advantage in interupting. There is mesmer interupts are actually faster than a ranger shooting an arrow. I remember when I first started interupting with my ranger after doing it with my mesmer for so long, I kept getting frustrated because my timing was just a LITTLE off. This I think is the only justifiable reason for the shortcomings in mesmer interupts.