Are two monks really needed for *EVERY* quest/mission?

OK for a lot of you people who say "OMG ITS SO ANOYING" well, its also anoying being the only monk healing stupid spellcasters who sit in AOE, or let a war attack them and then think "O THE MONK WILL SAVE ME"... WRONG

Now you can do this with 1 monk and a rit, but never 1 monk alone.

This isnt "new" every group ive been in even if its not a PUG, we've had 2 monks. (8 players or more of course)

EDIT:

Not to say the thread doesnt suck but...
Are two monks really needed for *EVERY* quest/mission?
that looks like a question to me.

It's a function of how many noobs are in the group. I'm sure a group of 7 Tyrian Protectors could get by with 1 monk with only healing breeze in his skill bar. That's assuming someone else has Prot Spirit.

I've done several missions, including thk, without monks at all. simply with ritualists, so... I would venture as far to say as you don't need any at all. If you're a smart group of players.

This question was asked several months ago (pre-factions) and answered by a group that beat THK with no monk in their party.

Monks are not needed for any mission or quest. They are preffered because most people don't want to manage their HP and fight at the same time. Its a hassle you don't want to deal with so healers gain prominance as a result.

...wildly differing from PvP where everyone (with half a brain) brings their own heals and is not shy about using them to help the monk manage their energy.

EDIT: Screw it. You don't want to hear it, but I'ma goanna say it. You want to make sure your team has a support character (monk, rit, whatever) then make one. In case no one has noticed there is a phenomenal shortage of monks in game. There are several popular schools of thought as to why:

1. Once they beat the game, they don't go back. A misconception, at least in my case. When people ask I monk for them, even if its beginning misions, I do. And usually, I PuG the rest.

2. No one plays them because they are boring/too hard. Being a support character is one of the hardest professions in this game, particularly in PvE where those aforementioned self-heals are a myth as reclusive as a unicorn (the ratio of people who claim to bring self heals in GW Guru to those who actually use them in game is considerably warped).

3. Monks are snobs who don't want to play in anything other than a "balanced" group. BS. I've enjoyed playing in many diverse groups. I never would have learned how good Rit Lords are unless I'd had the pleasure of playing beside one. Diversity is what gives Guild Wars spice.

But what I don't want to see is a total brain fart of a group build. You may not understand it, but its not my job to sit on your assassin and let you tank/mana sink me into physical RL exhaustion. Point of fact, for most of the people reading this, I KNOW YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

When I see 3 Sins in a group (which I can now, thanks to the recent change in party info before joining) I don't accept the invite. Thats not snobbish, thats ball rocking fear of AI pwnage!!!

4. Monks who start their own groups usually find members quickly and can pick and choose who to bring. Because they have greater options (being in the minority and--again--much sought after as a support player) they get a "good group" quick, play the mission through and usually win. They also have less time to spend spamming "LFMONK to GO!" Now that...that last ones true.

No you don't need two monks, 1 really good monk is more than enough, but more often than not one of your monks is a newb and the other one picks up the slack.

Having two monk is very helpful, tho, when going for the masters on a mission. Just sayin'

Two monks is certainly not a requirement; however most PvE pugs will have people who won't kite away from sources of damage (e.g. Firestorm, away from melee characters), nor will they have the mind to stop and rest, pull effectively or focus on killing threats (as opposed to just sloshing damage equally all over a mob). This stuff quickly increases the damage you take, and thus the damage you have to heal.

I'll always insist on another monk if I'm monking, though, because most pugs simply don't co-ordinate well enough.

Yes, you can beat THK with no monk. But still, putting most of your heals on a monk is far more efficient than heavy use of selfheals, as most are complete rubbish and/or diminish your offensive capability (examples being Ether Feast and Aura of Restoration).
Simply, a monk heal spell or a prot spell+boon will heal more damage in less time and be more efficient about it.

I'm a monk, I'm a good one, and I play PuGs exclusively.

I'd rather have one monk than three. Mitigating damage by killing mobs reduces the monk's workload enormously... Take note, those of you who run Mending "to help the monk": I'd rather you killed stuff faster.

I'm enormously in love with Communing-based Ritualists as the support 'healer' at the moment - Shelter is awe-inspiring (and irreplaceable!) and Union is the most efficient Heal Party you'll ever see.

(Speaking of Heal Party, if you have access to a good e-management elite I strongly suggest trying it out - it's the perfect PuG 'panic button')

In order of preference for an eight-man group in a mission that's reasonably hard:

Best:
Classic healer plus Rit Lord Shelter spammer
Classic healer plus active prot monk
Classic healer plus boon-prot monk
Classic healer x2
Classic healer plus Restoration rit
Restoration rit plus Shelter Spammer
Classic healer alone
Restoration rit x2
Boon-prot alone
...
Classic healer x3
Worst

About the only circumstances I'll insist on two healers on is if (a) we have to split the team, or (b) there's a lot of suicidal NPCs to keep alive. So mainly Eternal Grove.

2 monks
only in pugs

Actually most of the non lvl 20 missions, can be solo:ed, with a lvl 20 character. And since those are in majority , the answer is no - you dont usually need monks ^^

As a side note, other proffesions acting as dedicated healers , can do the job using monk secondary (or ritualist)- But people often find that less effective

I guess the reason for people bringing monks (or others of the holy trinity)is that they make the team more effective and thus gets the job done much faster. Impatience & time saving -in short

Every time I get into a group with another monk, I ask what he's carrying so I can adjust to fill gaps...but they always say that they have the same stuff I do, and the party doesn't want to wait the 30 seconds it'd take for me to rearrange for more protection or whatever. I don't even try to do anything more complex than divine boon, protection, hex and condition removal in PUGs anymore.

The amount of healing required is directly related to the efficiency of damage. If you have optimized damage builds and good communication, there shouldn't be reason for more than one healer. If you are a in a thrown together pug, it may be smart to have 2 people devoted to healing.

Not neccessarily 2 monks, just 2 healers

Restore Rt can fill the role

Boreas Seabed is pretty easy to solo monk if you can catch Argos insane meteors. I did it for a masters reward.

That sequence is a pretty good approximation of what I'd choose under most circumstances and that's a great list. Obviously this varies depending on what various missions require, what's actually available for a pickup group and what defences mobs are using but the emphasis is, avoiding duplication and getting maximum benefits from each person in the group.

No group needs two monks specifically - but two support characters aren't out of the question and is often wise, as long as they're not duplicating efforts (which is of course what makes 2+ heal less advisable). Anet's solution to "two monks" (or worse, three) is a communing or restoration ritualist. You could also consider a mesmer that blinds, removes hexes and interrupts a support character so it's not of course limited to that. The issue here is err7's or leavers - if that monk leaves for whatever reason, you lost your heal specialist. You can continue with 1 heal monk but not 1 interrupt mesmer. This is one big reason why people ask for 2 (or god forbid, 3) heal monks, it's because they do not wish to scrap a mission or long trip because a vital specialist has gone.

I have a different take to a lot of people on the issue of selfheals/selfdefences - in general I think it's ok for most people not to take them. There are obvious exceptions to this, anyone who can reasonably expect to be hit a lot or die before your support can respond - tanks, assassins. Anyone else had better run or take cover from projectiles, which uses no energy or skill slots. Of course the bar is raised much higher in the underworld or similar than other places. My reasoning is this - a team with two support chars (monks) is only 6 damagers. A monk with their energy pool and 8 skill slots is there exclusively TO look after everyone else while they do their job of killing. It's only up to everyone else to ensure, through whatever means, that they are neither an excessive burden nor too fragile, while still doing their job. It is bad or inexperienced players do not realise this, and simply place all the burden on the two characters that have 6 other people to look after.

yes you need 1 monk for missions 1-4 and sometimes 6, and you need 2 monks for missions 6-8. period. unless you have alot of elementalist hP "heal party" support group.

PuGs = FoTM and cookie cutter builds posted on the net (so I agree there). That's why I think henchies need a major upgrade so when the guild and friends aren't around the game is still playable with unique and fun builds that don't require half an hour of:

Searching the boards for the newest FoTM
LFG for mission
etc

2 monks aren't always needed. Most of the time, my guild group takes just the healer henchie and can beat whichever mission we go on.

Two good monks save money on armour. Nuff said.

With one good monk, I hardly ever need to used my self heal.

There are multiple ways to avoid dammage in the first place... Frenzy, Mending and Heal sig aint one.

QFT

When I've been a monk in groups with 2 or 3 monks, I usually notice that I am the person keeping everyone alive. When the other monks leave and there is only me left, still nobody dies, essentially illustrating how superfluous the other monks were, and they could have been damage dealers instead, or could have not been stealing our drops.

The trouble is that people are stuck in their ways. They can't understand that a ritualist can keep a team alive, and they can't understand that they don't need class X for a certain role. People just want cookie cutter teams, and although this leads to people getting excluded a lot, and often redundancy in a team, it is still quite effective. Of course, thinking is also effective, but expecting people to think is a dangerous thing.

If there is one monk in a group of 4, and a group of 6, why not 2 monks in a group of 8? A monk has limited energy, And i know because i monk. I am a pretty good monk but energy is not unlimited, 2 monks are needed in those other missions, mainly as a safety net. I'm not saying get 2 monks with the "classic healer" build. Whenever I do a mission with another monk I discuss with him what my build and what his build is, so one of us ends up taking fast/big heals (WoH, etc.), and the other one takes more enchantments and utility skills (healing seed, healing breeze, heal party). A combo like this is excellent and works great. 2 monks are not needed, but it takes alot of pressure of that one monk. I have solo monked, and we have beaten the mission, mainly because the team knows what they are doing, but a lone monk in a mission that nobody has done where the team is basically running around....that's havoc. A rit is fine by me, I have seen them heal better than most monks I have encountered in Cantha (monks that do nothing, and I am basically the solo monk..maybe i just have bad luck.)..I think it's safe to say 2 healers are needed, not to monks, be it any combination mentioned above, mainly because you cannot tell the future to see if your group is a bunch of pros who do controlled aggro over a bunch of newbs who run around in opposite directions.

W/e I just hench monks most of the time and it works fine for me. Don't feel like waiting 5 hours to get a monk.

When I monk, I would prefer having 2 monks just because things can go wrong very quickly in a mission. I don't mind being the lone monk, but there are times when it's nice to know that someone can pick up the slack if the crap hits the fan.

I think it's better when you have a healer and a protector. Two healers seems like a waste of energy, especially since we usually end up healing the same person, while another one in the team goes down because we monks focus on the one person that we see taking damage first.

I can't count the times I've been in some whiney PUG and said, "Just give it a shot, okay?" when there's only one monk around. Usually it'll start off rough, someone (or two) will drop, and the remainder will finish no problems. Just goes to show, monks are overrated. Well, three monks are overrated. One is usually necessary. And if there's two, for god's sake, one of you go protection. It makes such a difference.

Two monks aren't necessary. With a good group in Factions, 2 monks might even be a hindrance.

But, in lieu of the 2nd monk/healer your PUG will need the following:

1. Your sole healer has to be good.
2. Your tanks/group know how to manage aggro (bodyblock choke points, giving tanks lead, kiting effectively, a defensive skill or two).
3. Your squishies know how to mitigate damage by kiting/shadowstepping.
4. Your damage dealers have good damage builds.
5. Your leader is effective.

For most PUGs these attributes are rarer than a 2nd monk.

Riceboi: You are one of those annoying morons who cannot play this game for shit. You cannot manage your energy, you just spam 50 or 70 HP heals on anyone who loses only 10 HP!! If you play for fun why dont you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing learn to be competent. Its losers like you that make the game half fun for most of the people. The minute you join the group you start whining for another monk, perhaps even you are aware of your incompetency I guess.

Bad Apache its your existence that is pointless. If you read my post even casually you will read the question, but that requires reading comprehension. And I can prove that there is argument since there are people who are posting with EXACTLY OPPOSING VIEWS in this thread.

If the thread is another spam thread why are you adding your inane non-argument to it? That's just spam too then.

Chill everyone. Obviously, there are different opinions. Not everyone has guildies or access to competent monks. Not everyone goes in PuGS. All of our in-game experiences are different. So, let's chill with the flames. Just because it's point where either side could be right (but since these are opinions, no side can be right), doesn't mean we need to flame the others. Let's try not to get this topic closed, as it is a viable topic that has the possibility for very intelligent, respectable debate.

Not sure why the OP say it's a "new trend" because that kind of "LF 1 monk, have 1 already!!" spam had been going on way way before Factions started.

Still, I had solo monked for things like Sorrow's or Ring of Fire (and having 6 wammo's and 1 ranger really isn't THAT bad), completed those and side bonus of making the Shield of Deflection boss spawn for my monk to cap

Of course I love to have another monk or better yet a communing ritualist help out, but it's not always possible

I ended up on a team as the only monk with a ritualist. The ritualist offered to heal and claimed to have good spells. I asked for shelter, union, and/or displacement and didn't get an answer.

In the mission, the Rt cast Well of Blood and Recuperation, and there was a weapon spell of some type. I know she brought Flesh of My Flesh.

That was her healing, though.

A good heal monk with some hex and condition removal and a rit with shelter, union, displacement, life, rit lord, boon of creation rez, and utility dpell is all you need. I was the rit last night with a good monk and we got masters on 4 missions in a row.

Ease

If it's ok I might use this as a motto for life...

I just wanted to point out that most of us are saying more or less the same thing - 1 monk* (or none) is just fine with a competent team, but it is the incompetence of the standard PUG that starts causing problems. It is much easier to use 2 monks* than to wipe and have to redo the mission.

Also that it is worth it to try and complete the mission with only one monk* if it seems that finding another will be difficult/more time-consuming/less fun than trying to beat the mission with one monk* only.

Is that what 95% of us are saying in this thread?

*I am using the word monk to mean any character capable of healing/negating damage (Mo, Rt, /Mo).

u dont need at least 2 monks but

2 monks= better chance of beating mission

Yes

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Maybe you just suck as a monk. I've solo healed with my monk before and I love the way I amaze people by being the rare type monk able to keep 7 people alive at once. They praise me and comment on my awesome healing.

Too much pressure for you? Nope. You just have no skill noob.

I see where Riceboi is coming from i really only play my monk character now due to it being a sure fire way of getting a group and staying alive as i don't have to depend on someone else for healing.

Although it is possible to heal 7 other players often it depends on them, IMO everyone should have some sort of self heal and a res. I have had factions since release and only today installed it as i was having a break from guildwars for a few months.

If there are 2 monks at least they can cover a wider area Warriors tend to run forward and casters stay back although a lot of situation you can sit in the middle and heal all sometimes someone will need to pull back a bit or someone will run to far forward.

I prefer 2 monks in a part if i'm there but i won't say i won't go if they don't get another i simply suggest it to make it easier on me and increase the chance of success for a random group.

Kind of a vague question don't you think? Well I'm sure 1 monk is enough for 6 man missions in prophecies, but in 8 player missions or higher lvl areas, 2 monks are needed. Or you could just go with the alternative, monk henchies.

Wow...you must be really phenomenal in pvp then, since you think you're so leet at healing =|.

Wow demesis..The skill of the monk is only a tiny factor to the success of the party..if your party is smart, even a "newb" can manage and heal them all, because smart parties used controlled aggro with affective decisions and builds..most people aren't that smart in the game, so 2 monks is just a safety net..

Do not let others be blinded by your boasts. You were not the only healing/defense buff source in your group; I know. I've solo healed several groups from early 8 man missions to Fire Island skill caps; from disconnects and leavers to going straight in as the only healer in an 8 man group.

The groups that survive have 2 things in common:

1. They were not stock PuGs. These people knew how to play and did it well. Warriors agroed groups and body blocked AI. Other players let him. Energy calls followed every mob. We took our time, no one being over taxed. No one else tried to tank damge; kiting was frequent and retreats were no shame if things went bad.

2. In cases where I went into the mission alone, most said they brought their "PvP" build; a build designed not only with damage in mind, but defense as well. Rangers trapped and interupted. Watch Yourself was a common Adrenal skill seen in those games, as well as Wards against Elements, Foes and Mellee.

In all cases it was a tough run. People did die, despite my best efforts and theirs. But that is the point: it was a team game. They didn't need my monk any more than I needed them. They just needed an 8th person who knew how to play well and support them.

EDIT: whatever the case, zulu123, your question is answered. The fact that your last two posts--the only responses you have given to your thread--are nothing but flaming attacks on responders speaks to the trollish intent behind this threads conception.

I call for a lock.