01 Jul 2006 at 19:47 - 2
Warriors aren't the only class that can kill something, so I fail to see why Ritualists should be "nerfed" just because Warriors may have difficulty killing them. What about Rangers? Assasins? What about all of the casting classes that don't need to go through an entire opposing party? If you're relying that heavily on Warriors, I think there's something wrong.
01 Jul 2006 at 20:16 - 4
Think you've playing those professions wrong, have seen people do it wrong etc.
Those professions fit perfectly in Guild Wars. The system works!
01 Jul 2006 at 20:18 - 5
I think the only problem is the rarity of critical hits with an assassin fighting high level (24+) mobs. ANet should do something about that, either remove the reliance on critical hits for the assassin, or make the assassins just as likely to get them on high level enemies.
Apart from that I think the new professions are OK, it is the people playing them who are the problem.
As for the only thing a ritualist is good for is spirit spam, what about monks... according to the players only good for heal/prot, not smiting.
01 Jul 2006 at 20:23 - 6
The problem with both is the lack of balance present in the "legacy" classes.
01 Jul 2006 at 20:26 - 7
anet decided to balance the game for pvp, in pve you fight lvl 24+ mobs and even if you play well your assa will die faster than anyone else before
01 Jul 2006 at 20:32 - 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewfense
How can anet fix them?
Why fix something that isn't really broken to start with?
I still fail to see why people so desperately turn their focus on straight and direct damage as well as pure Defence. There actually is more to a fight than this. The Assassin is in no way underpowered or out of balance. He is using a very strong mechanism to his advantage - Movement. The Assassin basically scans the enemy team for weaknesses and mistakes and instantly punishes them for it.
Why should A-Net fix anything, only because many people fail to use the strengthes of their Assassin? Nothing wrong with the Assassin in my book. Everything is fine.
Yes, Assassin is the first class to be more hard to learn than to master. Every other class is easy to start with and gets harder as you progress. The Assassin is different, starts out hard and gets easier the further you progress.
The Ritualist on the other hand is... well... just as balanced. Forcing the ritualist into battle would render him completely useless. With those 5 Second Binding Rituals he has to deal with. Standing still for 5 full seconds in the middle of a battle is just a guarantee for your death.
The ritualist class is far too stationary to be forced into the battle lines. And no, Ritual Lord or Spiritspamming in a whole isn't overpowered. Just like you can cut an elementalist short when you strip his Attunements (if he was confident enough to bring them in the first place that is), you can strip a Ritualist's Boon of Creation.
Without his Boon (Enchantment) a Spirit Spammer is basically useless as you've just kicked his energy manargement out of the window. And if your ritualist resorts to other classes to keep on spamming (like going Necromancer Primary for Soul Reaping) his spirits will be far less effective - as in not being useful. He also currently has to take Ritual Lord [ELITE Skill], for it is the single most powerful Skill when it comes to Spirit Spamming.
A change i'd appreciate about the ritualist though would be to make his Binding Rituals Spellbased. So you can interrupt them more easily (would give more powers to the mesmer versus ritualist battle - as they can easily cast through the walls the Ritualist is hiding behind). This would also mean that Dazed actually had an effect on a Ritualist. As it is now, Dazed is just laughable on a Ritualist as almost all of his Skills are Binding Rituals or Instant Cast Skills. Other than those two adjustments, the ritualist is fine.
01 Jul 2006 at 20:56 - 9
Did ANet Screw Up The Assassin?
No..... not a chance, The assassin is one of the most underrated and underplayed character classes in guild wars.
everyone is comparing them to warriors and trying to be tanks.
to play the class properly you have to understand that just because the assassin does more damage then a warrior you are not an uber tanking beefcake with balls of steel.
instead wrap your mind around this.
what if:
Your charcater could suddenly appear beside an enemy of your choice?
you could catch your opponents off guard so quickly and efficiently they never knew what hit them?
you could string your skills together and make them into a combo that you could unleash in mere seconds and leave them in a world of hurt if not dead?
you could escape from an enemy and leave them dumbfounded as to where you went?
Now consider this. (pvp)
with a pvp assassin you have the ability to stop enemy mesmers, ele's, ritualist, monks, and rangers in their tracks
with an assassin the back line of caster/interuptor targets falls within minutes of the assassin picking them off whats a gvg match when the other team has no monks?
Its called a slaughter
as previoulsy said it takes mere seconds to realease a combo devestating enough to leave any character either dead or severly hurting and crying for mommy.
its as simple as the get in get out tactic that the assassin was designed for
get in do your damage and get out all within seconds.
i think the assassin is ANets most creative and effective class so far.
as for the ritualist i havnt really dabbled with them much. but from what i see they are mainly for team support their channeling lightning magic has no armour penetration so its bound to do less then the ele but then again like i said i havnt played much of that yet so who knows
01 Jul 2006 at 21:16 - 10
They are both really good and balanced if used well. I see absolutely no problem with them and I won't go into a huge discussion like toehr people have because theres no reason to repeat what they said. anyway both thse profession work well and its really all the fault of stereotypes that makes people like them or dislike them.
01 Jul 2006 at 21:34 - 11
Assassins seem balanced for PvP and L20-ish PVE encounters, but once you start taking them into the L28 PvE endgame areas like RoF, Urgoz Warrens, the Deep, etc... then you'll notice their death rates soar dramatically, even when using AoD teleports to minimize damage exposure.
As mentioned above, raising assassin armor would correct the L28+ problems but create new issues in the L20 PvP range. Other balancing possibilities would be:
1) change some existing defensive assassin enchantments into stances instead. The assassin is a hybrid caster and melee class, so why not have the existing skill set reflect this?
2) more situational armor improvements. I would like to see a 85AL, -15AL while attacking armor hit the crafters. This would correct some of the high level PvE mortality issues while keeping attacking armor levels the same as before (base 70AL).
3) correct temple strike by making it critical strike attribute based instead of dagger based. This would correct ranger primary abuse and make sub-20 second recharge times feasible again. As it stands, temple strike is barely elite title worthy due to its excessive 25-second recharge time for 7 seconds of blind + daze.
01 Jul 2006 at 22:17 - 12
Quote:
Assassin: I biggest problem with the assassin is that they die way to quickly. When I pick up a pug assassin in pve, I know that I am going to have to keep a prot spirit on him whenever things get nasty. The immediate solution would be to improve the assassin armor...but that would cause even worse problems. An assassin is pretty much the highest "damage per second to a solo enemy" character right now (if you doubt this, go watch a HoH match with Brehon playing assassin, or watch any GvG with a two man assassin yank squad). If you give assassins stronger armor, it will be the new IWAY. To counter this you could reduce the assassins damage. Then in essence all assassins would be similar to the R/A (or even worse W/A) you see in RA. Now the damage output is so low that you basically have a melee character worse in all ways than a warrior.
Hate to break it to you but they introduced a NEW profession. The main word been, NEW. Its not a warrior, its not suppose to be enduring. Its an Assassin.
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Ritualist: This is the one class I currently have a distaste for. Really the only thing that is worth using on the ritualist in PvE and PvP is spirits so my discussion will be limited to that. Right now it is simply to easy to play a ritualist. In GvG, the ritualist is able to hide far in the backline occluded by terrain and spam spirits. Currently, to send a warrior that far into the opposing backline is very difficult to do since it puts the warrior and rest of the party at risk and it is easy for the enemy monk to see the attack on the ritualist and just stand their healing him. Ritualists should have to deal with the annoyance of kiting as monks and mezmers do while being in the midline. I think the range of defensive spirits should be significantly reduced thereby pulling the ritualist closer to the action. Conversly, I think the damage taken by spirits should be reduced (with the exception of displacement), making them more effective, but since they are closer to the fight they are easier to remove. As for PvE, the reduction in damage taken would be a nice boost and I do not think it would make anything unbalanced. The only thing I would worry about is how it would effect HoH and RA/TA where the spirit range isn't that important (since everyone is already on top of each other) and the damage reduction would make them harder to kill. Maybe making ritual lord an enchantment? That might be to much of a nerf.
Yeah lets make Ritual Lord an enchantment, they learnt when they screwed the Ele over. Attunements are absolutely useless as enchantments. Theres about 2 places you can use them without getting em removed. The Assassin is bad enough with all the enchantments that get shattered, the self heal is retarded. I seriously can't believe your whining that spirits have too long a range and you can't go kill the Ritualist. Well boo frigging hoo. Live with it.
01 Jul 2006 at 22:17 - 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrow
They are both really good and balanced if used well. I see absolutely no problem with them and I won't go into a huge discussion like toehr people have because theres no reason to repeat what they said. anyway both thse profession work well and its really all the fault of stereotypes that makes people like them or dislike them.
Yeah I agree with you...
With all these skills for every class, its just a waste that people rely on stereotypical builds.
An example would be my Ritulist. At first he was a spirit spamming item holder ( how original, lol ). Now I made a build for him to do some spiriting, restoration, and channeling for damage.
All in all I did my own tinkering to make a build that can heal, deal damage, and support the group which equals more fun for me.
One I know in Guild Wars is once a certain build gets overused, somebody always finds a counter for it. Of course one could either do that or go crying to anet for a nerf, which is just pathetic IMO.
01 Jul 2006 at 22:28 - 14
I've only played the assassins in PvP. I find that the best trick is to run (or shadow-step) in, kill, then run away from the fight.
In this sense, an assassin is pretty much a caster. Their weapon: themselves. They jump in and kill (like casting a spell), then run away (to where the casters are). In this way they are some kind of Melee-caster hybrid thing that is really confusing to figure out (or describe).
About ritualists (which I have only found, never been), I'm pretty sure most of their spirits don't take 5 seconds to cast. Most seem to take 3 seconds, max. This is why I dislike them in PvP. They can create a small army real fast, then run away and have their "army" kill you.
I personally would think sevral things would be good:
1. Longer casting times on more powerfull spirits. Seiously, ever been hit by a guy who keeps spamming Pain, Dissonance, Bloodsong and Shadowsong? Maybe make the more powerfull (elite?) spirits take longer, and therefore last longer (balance).
2. Shorter range. The attack spirits (mostly) have ranges greater than our agro bubble (sometimes). Possibly shorten attack spirit ranges to half that of a wand (shortbow range?). That way they work more as defensive attackers, and aren't just like having a group of see-through rangers.
3. Make them have Spells. Mesmers have been knocked down a notch because of this. Most of their interupts work on SPELLS, not "rituals". As well, many mesmer spells only work on spells, hardly any exploit skills or "rituals".
I again, have never played a ritualist (I have used one of two of their spells and rituals), so don't get all agitated if one of my ideas seems bad.
01 Jul 2006 at 22:46 - 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
The problem with both is the lack of balance present in the "legacy" classes.
Can you expand on this?
Curse You:
Binding rituals are 5 second casts except when using soul twisting.
IMO, Ritualists are rather balanced. If you don't like the effects move back a bit or put a ranger or diversion mez on the ritualist. You can always step up and kill the spirits and spike the ritualist. I think they are meant to be a largely immune to mesmers as part of the design. You should be able to take out most ritualists with skills already on your bar and good movement. Remember that too efficiently spirit spam it costs you ~6 skills and most of your time... not much room for flexiblity and utility.
01 Jul 2006 at 23:21 - 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by morodoth
Now consider this. (pvp)
with a pvp assassin you have the ability to stop enemy mesmers, ele's, ritualist, monks, and rangers in their tracks
with an assassin the back line of caster/interuptor targets falls within minutes of the assassin picking them off whats a gvg match when the other team has no monks?
HAHA which would be funny if that were actually true XD
What game are you playing? You certainly aren't referring to Guild Wars assassins.
02 Jul 2006 at 00:09 - 17
I like both classes so far. I started up an assassin yesterday, and I like it. Been playing a ritualist for a while now too. There's nothing I would like to be changed from either class so far. Although I haven't been playing an assassin for too long yet, the ritualist is great in my opinion. So far so good. 
02 Jul 2006 at 00:20 - 18
the only problem I have with the ritualists are, the range on the spirts' attacks are too limiting to me, I wish they could move, maybe at 1/4 normal player speed or something... but I sopose it made me think more defencively for king of the hill pvp or something 
oh and curse you, the spirts have the same range as a wand/staff
02 Jul 2006 at 00:43 - 19
Quote:
1. Longer casting times on more powerfull spirits. Seiously, ever been hit by a guy who keeps spamming Pain, Dissonance, Bloodsong and Shadowsong? Maybe make the more powerfull (elite?) spirits take longer, and therefore last longer (balance).
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Lemme guess... a wammo that hasn't learnt how to interrupt. Ritual Lord makes spirits recharge in about 15 seconds IF and ONLY IF they cast. Unless your head is falling off 3 seconds is plenty of time to interrupt a ritual. Play one and you might notice that.
Quote:
2. Shorter range. The attack spirits (mostly) have ranges greater than our agro bubble (sometimes). Possibly shorten attack spirit ranges to half that of a wand (shortbow range?). That way they work more as defensive attackers, and aren't just like having a group of see-through rangers.
Yeah how useful, i can have 3 spirits that can't do anything till your half agro range. What next, spirits that only attack in melee? You sure you don't wanna make all spirits have a 25 energy cost while your at it?
3. Make them have Spells. Mesmers have been knocked down a notch because of this. Most of their interupts work on SPELLS, not "rituals". As well, many mesmer spells only work on spells, hardly any exploit skills or "rituals".
Are Nature Rituals spells? Get over it. A Ranger can interrupt them regardless. A Psychic Distraction Mesmer can shut down a Rit single handed, perhaps we should nerf Signets and make it so we can interrupt Healing Signet with Power Spike while your talking about interrupts.
Quote:
I again, have never played a ritualist (I have used one of two of their spells and rituals), so don't get all agitated if one of my ideas seems bad.
Yes they are quite bad... If you've ever played 1 in PvP you'll know exactly how fragile a rit is the moment someone comes for you and/or your spirits.
02 Jul 2006 at 01:36 - 20
To say it shortly yes. I see lots of people trying to justify it, but compared to the original 5... sins and rits are not so great. Give me an elementalist, war or necro any day over a sin or rit..
~prime
02 Jul 2006 at 02:37 - 21
Assassin PvP:
There is only 1 bar to run for the assassin at this time. Only AoD helps the sin do his job and stay alive. The only reason it was given a slight nerf was to keep it playable. Otherwise players would never use Sins. Anet does manipulate the metagame. They completely destroyed e-drain a long time ago. That got people to forget about using it and turn to other options. Then they gave it a slight buff making it usable again. If they wanted the game away from AoD they would nerf the hell out of it then buff it later on. The small nerf that it received shows Anet knows there is no other option for the sin.
Ritualist PvP:
This game revolves around 2 classes: Monks and Warriors. Unless its a spike build. With a balanced build you have a few jobs: help the war snare or add degen for dps; or disrupt a warrior or monk. Ritualist can shut down a team's wars with very little effort or skill Again another problem is there is no other way to run the Ritualist. You MUST use ritual lord. Soul twist was good till the nerf. Anet wanted us to get away from it so they over nerfed it. They will buff it later most likely when people are tired of only running ritual lord. They cannot touch ritual lord at this point or it will completely gimp a rit.
My main problem with the new classes is there is only 1 way to run them. Anything else is just subpar. They have 1 job and only need themselves to make it work. It doesn't fit into the team work aspect of the game. I hope that future professions are not like this. If I buy another chapter just to get 2 professions with only 16 skills that are usable in any given situation then its not worth my money. Then again I'm forced to upgrade to keep up with the high end pvp. That's why GW will be around for a very long time.
New professions are nice but they are never going to be better than the core professions. That would undermine all balance in the game. We got the cream of the crop from the start. With each chapter you might find 1 or 2 skills that will work slightly better but its nothing that will make it important enough for me to spend $50 on. The only reason I upgrade was for alliance battles (for fun) and keep up in high end GvG.
02 Jul 2006 at 03:35 - 22
Yay so much sin love in here, for once the sin love outdoes the ahte YES for once people are seeing the light, I, for one, whole heartedly believe I am one of the better sins, I rarely get hit, once I got to Gyala and really started rocking out as I had mastered the class by then I only died like twice before I killed shiro. The lvl 28 groups aren't too hard for me as I focus on pure spike damage not crits. Anyway Bigtru I swear you have never seen a decent sin in action otherwise you woould agree with me. Also I think the sins were kinda meant to counteract the ritualists, they just tele to the rits and kill em, sins= anti-caster easy. Some of the mesmers need to try sins. I have proof of this too, at saltspray I was able to take out one of the NPC rits before he could even cast a single spirit, owned. I do think they ned to change HoO to where it knocks down people if they don't have any NONSPIRIT allies next to them, without this than a smart rit can easily be pretty much Sin immune, something that few classes can say.
02 Jul 2006 at 04:12 - 23
"If played correctly assasins are good" pretty much sums it up.
Players have no problem with the rushing in and killing part, it's the knowing when to run away part that seems to be tricky.
As a primary healer I always get a little worried when there's a sin in the party. I don't complain, I just silently hope they know what they're doing.
A few times they were great, but more times than not they stood toe-to- toe with a pack of monsters and died faster than I could heal. No matter how many times this happened, they'd do the same thing with the next pack.
Another problem is if the assasin is not up to par it shows right away, thus giving them all a bad rap. It's even easier to spot a bad assasin than a bad monk-I was doing the celestial mission and I seemed to be working pretty hard, even though there was a second monk in the party. On one mob I backed off and watched what spells he used- Heal Party and Jamei's Gaze. That's all he used and I eventually stepped in when a few players were low.
I bet no one else was aware of the "healer"'s lack of skill. By the way, the assasin in that party was very good!
02 Jul 2006 at 04:52 - 24
^ true but umm do you know that you have someone elses avatar with a photoshopped eye patch over it? might be a good idea to not have that as to not piss anyone off.
02 Jul 2006 at 04:56 - 25
Carth speaks for me on assassin, "I think the only problem is the rarity of critical hits with an assassin fighting high level (24+) mobs. ANet should do something about that, either remove the reliance on critical hits for the assassin, or make the assassins just as likely to get them on high level enemies."
Anet please take note. At the present time, the reduction on criticals on high level monsters in PvE is enough of a handicap to make Critical Barrage configuration necessary.
No comment on Rit, I don't have one of those yet.
02 Jul 2006 at 05:04 - 26
Assassins are crippled in a fair number of PvE areas simply because of the afflicted. Even if you *aren't* being attacked, you cross your fingers and hope too many guys don't die all at once or you are toast. Warriors don't have to worry about it as much because of their higher defense. Even the +15 AR while attacking gear isn't much help in this situation.
I would love to see an 85 AR, -15 AR while attacking set for the assassin.
02 Jul 2006 at 05:08 - 27
No problem with ritualists - being so far back is balanced with the LOOOOOOOOOONG casting on the rituals, coupled with how fast they die and how much they need to spam them.
A single interrupt ranger/diversion mesmer (or interrupt..whatever mesmer) will successfully kill a spirit spamming ritualist - as he/she'll have no way of healing themselves, except for boon of creation. All of his/her attributes have to go into communing/spawning to be effective. And rituals do more than spirit spam - they can heal, too. (quite well if you ask me)
Oh, and assassins - as everyone else said - good if played right.
02 Jul 2006 at 05:10 - 28
A sin can still destroy rits or just about any other caster if done right, cept mesmers, mesmers own all if done right...
02 Jul 2006 at 08:23 - 29
First of all, Arena Net didn't "mess up" any classes or they wouldnt be in the game. 
Second, these are new classes. Assassin might be similar to warrior, and ritualist might be similar to necro and/or monk (depending on how the ritualist plays) but they are not the same.
Assassin has less armor, but to make up for that, they can teleport around so they are in the battle minimal time. THen to make up for being in the battle minimal time, they are really strong (if used right). THe reason they have less armor is so that they arent a tank, yet they still have enough armor to be a physical fighter.
Ritualists can make spirits, but they only last so long, and u can attack the ritualists with a assassin or long range so i don't see why there would be a problem with them being in the back. The spirits are set right where the ritualist is standing and they are usually set where they can attack the enemy. If the spirit is in range to attack you, then as long as you have range, you can attack them back, and since the rit is the one summoning them, u can also attack the rit too. If the rit doesnt summon, then they are a monk like person (I really can't think of any other possible uses for rit so i am assuming there are none) so it's really not much different than a monk.
I think that they are balanced and, as long as they are used right, can be a great addition to any group, in many ways.
Hey, the spirits even take damage which can really help in rijuyo mission quest thing for the dragon festival.
02 Jul 2006 at 16:07 - 30
Heres another idea...what about buffing up the other skills of the ritualist. It is disappointing to me atleast that the only effective thing a ritualist can do is spam spirits. With every other class you have multiple "jobs" you can fullfill.
02 Jul 2006 at 18:36 - 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Lemme guess... a wammo that hasn't learnt how to interrupt. Ritual Lord makes spirits recharge in about 15 seconds IF and ONLY IF they cast. Unless your head is falling off 3 seconds is plenty of time to interrupt a ritual. Play one and you might notice that.
Anybody remember when their were more ways to counter a skill than one particular type of skill (In this case, non-spell interrupts)???
I suppose you're alright with this soul barb spike "interrupt or die" crap, too?
For every counter, there's another counter. What happense if the Ritualist has Matra of Resolve/Concentration? Even better, what if the Ritualists teams has blinding/hexes/snares? Hell, even better, what if the Ritualist just stays behind the monk backline, forcing the entire team to push in too much just to pressure/interrupt a single target? I love your idea of balanced.
04 Jul 2006 at 14:00 - 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTru
Anybody remember when their were more ways to counter a skill than one particular type of skill (In this case, non-spell interrupts)???
I suppose you're alright with this soul barb spike "interrupt or die" crap, too?
For every counter, there's another counter. What happense if the Ritualist has Matra of Resolve/Concentration? Even better, what if the Ritualists teams has blinding/hexes/snares? Hell, even better, what if the Ritualist just stays behind the monk backline, forcing the entire team to push in too much just to pressure/interrupt a single target? I love your idea of balanced.
Perhaps you forgot something called running or teleportation? Or perhaps range attacks from a long bow has missed your memory. Yes, Rits can stay in the backline with the monk, but then again, what would you do if you can't cast or if your poor spirits can die by a meteor shower?
Ritualsts take a very long time to summon a spirit. Spirits can die quickly. Spirits can't move. Interupt from a Mesmer, a Necro, a Elementalist, an Assassin or a Ranger can remove some of the threats of a Ritualist.
I mean people say Elementalists suck in PvP, Assassins suck period, Touch Rangers need a nerf, etc. There is a balance to everything. If you say, traps, snares, spirits and the rest of the team are just waiting for you, why on Earth do you just say, "nerf this...". If its an obvious trap, why go into it?
Assassins can teleport right to the back lines and squish the squishies. Then they can teleport back when the job is done.
There is nothing truly wrong with the Assassin nor the Ritualist. Warriors can kill a Ritualist, if you allow it, it can take a while to kill, but otherwise, you can a Ritualist just like a Monk or Ele or Necro or Mesmer. Just like they can kill you too.
Everything is basically balanced and should not be radically changed at all.
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