Biggest problem with Guild Wars: Guilds (rant)

When I played my first test GvG battles in the beta weekends, I couldn't wait till the game came out and constantly have guild battles everyday, testing out builds in tombs, and have great communication amongst my comrades.

Few months later, after the release and purchase of Guild Wars, I can safetly say that my vision of Guild Wars is simply a hypothetical one. The problem? Guild or human nature, both the same to me.

I started my own guild and we were one of the first guilds to have our own hall in the release (30 or 40). I picked up a few players from the PvP players or by simply spamming a recruitment message. Slowly, the connections were being made amongst my players. Never had an arguments, and we were always testing new builds in both GvG and Tombs. Things were going well.

One day, that ended. Without warning or a bit of clue, like a perfect murder, some of my members and an officer left the guild to form they're one. They were my best players and the guild simply shattered within a few hours after I found this out. Don't know why they did, but they did.

I wasn't too depressed about it. It's a game after all and there is literally thousands of guilds out there. Someone wanted to take me.

I remember one of the top guilds PMing me during a guild battle that wanted me join them. I took up their offer and we played a few rounds of GvG.

Two days later, the guild disbands. Same situation, officer forms his own guild from the players he talks to, and the leader is left alone. I decided to join the sub-guild, mainly because the leader was never online and was in a different time zone than the rest of us. At least the reason was legit.

New guild? Doesn't last a week. The players are now not liking their new enlightened leader. Why not? He only bitches at everyone, thinks his builds are flawless, and leaves the game whenever we lose a match in tombs. Selfish and immature.

So..within a month's time, I've gone through four guilds. The players now formed thier own guild, promise each other that there will only be the eight of them because they want to stick together.

We start getting good and even noticed by the top dawgs. They start inviting more people and a friend of mine dies.

Funeral was out of town. I was gone for three days.

I log back into Guild Wars and behold...I've been booted from the guild. Not active they say.

As if by faith itself, someone from my first guild contacts me. He says that he is looking for new players. He liked me as both a player and person.

I stayed one day at this guild, than I left because officer was arguing with the leader again.

I don't know about you, but what the hell is with some of the more higher ranked guilds in GW? I never seen a bunch of arrogant pricks who beat their chest and roaring at the top of the lungs saying how great they are. Yet if you show any sign of weakeness or having a social life, they boot you. You dedicate your time and your character build, catering to their needs. You don't have to go for that elite skill. In fact, you hate it, but your guild needs you to play that class and you are probably pretty damn good at it.

Each top rank guild I"ve joined (by top, I mean like top 50), seem to have the same issues: Power struggles and whining. If your team loses a match, big whoop. Simple figure out what the problem is. You don't get a reward if youa re first place on the ladder. Hell, the game has been messed up already that the first place people are probably up there because of smurfing. It's not even legit, so why bother?

I won't support ArenaNet in their future expansions until the community gets their head out of their ass. I never ever seen such disrespectful players in a game. And I've played CS.

MarkyX out.

EDIT: If you are a guild that isn't suffering from insane officers bitching at leaders or boot people for having a social life, PM me. I want to join you.

Maybe I can offer you a bit of perspective:

First some history: I'm currently the leader of [Nu], one of the newer guilds on the top 20. I've been active in guildwars since the WPE, and i've gone through a fair number of guilds myself. First was Gods Wrath Clan, who was very reputable in shadowbane, but fizzled out in guildwars while waiting for their alpha referals to come through. By the time we got in the alpha, there were only like 2 people even remotely interested in playing guildwars, the rest were just fed up.

So, I got in the alpha, but basically had no guild. What next?

Club G notices me posting on the alpha forums, and asks me to play with them. We get along well, and have a common history (starcraft). I accept and close my ties to GWC. I play with club G until e3 2005, at which point we take a definative loss vs the devs who played us live at e3. Afterward, the guild didnt see the same. Numerous people were inactive or MIA, and Club G merges with n0 as a result. In the following weeks only 2-3 club G members are active in the new merged n0 guild. It becomes clear to me that i'm not really needed in n0(we had 4 mesmers basically competing for 1 spot), and I begin looking again at my alternatives. 2 days later, Nu is formed, basically from people i'd been playing tombs with during the times when club G was inactive, and i couldnt gvg with n0.

So, the big guild killers in my opinion:
1. non-active or uninterested players.
2. lack of leadership
3. lack of inclusiveness within the guild. Players dont feel like they are needed or appreciated within the guild.
4. RL issues affecting core guild members (cant do much about this)
5. Internal guild conflict. (politics) Groups of players disliking other players for whatever reason.
6. Skill differentials or differring objectives among numerous members within the guild.

Lastly, just an observation, Tons of players want to play with uber guilds, but not everyone is skilled enough or WILLING TO PUT IN THE EFFORT REQUIRED to get good enough to play on the level of those teams. Guilds in guildwars will probably constantly morph as we've been seeing as players attempt to find other like minded players who they get along with and also share similar goals and game skill. I think it will settle down a bit over the comming months, but it is something that will always be around.

I am currently sitting without a guild myself. I keep running into guilds that don't want you to play with them but they want alot of members. I want to know why guilds recuit when they won't let people GvG or join them in tombs. Why does your number on the ladder matter so much? It's a game you should play it and have fun. You can't get to the top anyway. The top guilds don't even play, they just sit there.

Another thing i see it secondary guilds. You have to sit in a guild that isn't very active because he more active players are in the main "l33t" guild the you are not special enough for. I don't get it. How does it help your guild to get better by segregating the guild so they don't work together?

You are basically rubbing up against your own limitations in my opinion.

You basically have 2 extremes in guildwars:
1. Large guild of casual or semi active players.
2. Small guild of hardcore players.

To play in (2) you yourself need to be hardcore, or you will likely be discarded.
If you play in (1) you may become frustrated with the gameplay of others, or the general amount of activity in the guild. Most guilds will be somewhere in the middle.

Secondary guilds would be alot more feasible if alliances were implemented.

I personally have gone through many guilds as well (only four I can actually remember though )....

My first guild was one I was invited to join by someone I knew outside of the game. I just got the game, ok. Now I'm set. Or so I thought...See, we were going to get a hall, but the guild leader was always offline. Couple that with the problem of only 3 people or so being online at once, and it was a pretty inactive guild. So I left.

Then, being the quasi-noob that I was, I thought I could simply make my own guild. I got a cape, a RL friend to join, and then...nothing. I never got my guild off the ground. So, I proceeded to quit that guild as well.

And then, I joined another guild. It seemed fine enough. The guild leader assured me he was always online and that the guild was fairly active. He must have been joking. When I quit the guild, the current state looked something like this:
Guild Leader-Last online 5 days ago
Guild Officers-only 1 active, 1/2 were last online 3 days ago, and the rest were last online 5 days through 2 weeks ago
Members-Only 2 active (not including myself), 1/2 were last active 3-6 days ago, 1/4 were last active 1 week ago, and 1/4 were last active 2 weeks ago
Considering the size of the guild (40 or so members), the numbers those fractions represent are substantial

And, now, I am in yet another guild. It looks promising though . I met an officer while doing Thunderhead Keep with my ranger. Our group consisted of 6 necros and 2 rangers, and we completed the mission flawlessly the first try . Needless to say I had some more people to add to my friends list

oh yeah i worked my ass off to get a sigil for my guild, which at the time, had like 50 people in it all together, i was an officer, there were about 5 other officers, and there were usually at least a dozen people on at all times of the day, well recently its been me(the new leader, cause the old one decided to quit), and 4 officers, some havent been on for weeks, and maybe 20 non-officers, usually just one online, and he either ignores me, or just leaves his game on and goes elsewhere

i think they need to wipe the ladder, and all guilds, and start it over, make it where anyone in the guild can donate to a fund to get the hall, and make it cost like a billion gold, that way one out of four people wont have their own guild

I dont think its a problem that people can make their own guilds with small numbers of players. I'd consider that a benefit in fact.

Your other problem I think is a direct result of the post-release guildwars rush, whereby a large number of play bought and played the game, then ran out of things they wanted to do and left, or just became bored and quit. I think your best bet is to form a new guild, or join a guild which has *active* players in it. At least you know these people like the game enough to stick around for a while.

I fail to see how this is a "Guild Wars problem" when you are referring simply to the nature of the beast so to speak with MMO's and guilds. Realize what your niche is, be that casual or hardcore, and find a guild that caters to your needs. In RL most people don't stay with their first jobs for all or most of their lives either and most likely will go through many jobs before they settle on one, guilds are similar in this aspect as well.

I am in the same guild since the game came out. I know most of the people in there for years since we played other games together. No argument of any sort ever occured there. On the other hand, we aren't competitive since we take everything the relaxed way, even when we get beaten up but yet another Korean team...

In real life, the most "competitive" persons are not automatically the nicest, too - if you know what I mean...

Learn how to lead, well. Sorry - if you can't persevere upon meeting your first big catastrophe (in the first guild which you made), there's not much to symphathize with -- except to point out a need to develop leadership ability (visions, goals, management strategies and tactics, etc.)

If you can lead well, you'll know how to handle the various issues that you bring up. You can also adeptly tell whether or not the leadership is cut out for meeting the requirements you have as a competitive player (which I suppose you do in that last guild).

If you can do that, then it shouldn't be too hard to track down your "right" guild via experience and intuition. Lastly, If you get kicked out for 3 days inactivity, you obviously haven't made enough of an impression to be viewed upon as a necessary asset. In that case, PvP more and build a reputation in the PvP community.

-Aries

P.S. Xaanix, Nu have a website? Let's schedule a match next weekend or something. =)

Aries Sky // LotD AGM
www.lotd.org

The guild's i've been are good except for one. The first one was fine till the leader started playing another game, since most of the officers were his buddies they left too and I left that. They were friendly and all, a nice bunch. My second was crap, leader was bitchy and everything and I left on the day I joined.

Third guild is where I am now, we GvG, PvE or Team Arena whenever we feel like it. We lose? Who cares, we don't really. And with only rank 1400 something, you can see we aren't really hardcore players. We don't get booted for having a social life. I didn't go on for about a week with real life problems and they didn't really care. We even have a guy in the guild who hasn't been online in a month. We have about 50 friendly people in the guild and about half of them are Online at least once every 2 days.

i like your attitude - it`s so similar to mine

the problem is that people take this game way to serious.
i played daoc for years and shadowbane for almost a year too doing pvp only 90% of my time. But GW is the 1st game i noticed guilds advertising themselves like "you need to be online everyday. if you`re absent for 2-3 days (without notification) you will be kicked".
It would never have crossed my mind that such an attitude could be seen as a good thing to have in a guild and to advertise it

A guild is best when it becomes a group of friends, people who like each other and have quite the same goals. It needs time to find the right people and to grow together.

But time seems something hat most don´t have in GW (or aren´t willing to spend) and a big part of the players want to be in a top pvp guild without doing any work.
They want to log in get an invite by a top10 pvp guild and then be part of the "success" - if they can´t achieve anything of that they become very frustrated.
Especially new guilds need much work to become stable and need further dedicated leader/officers and members willing to spend some time and effort into the guild.

But i really think that there are way too many people with a strange attitude out there (like people who leave your pug in tombs when they die, people who leave immediately grp when they see 2 necros/rangers or 4 monks or *gasp* a henchie (!!) in it).

The solution to most problems in GW would be: relax people ! it`s just a game, try to have fun !

If you play GW only to "achieve" something chances are great that you will be disappointed and frustrated - because it will feel more like work than play (and i`ve enough work in my RL, so i`m personally looking for fun in a game).

Just try to find a bunch of players you like and that fit to you. You don´t need many of them - anyway you can´t take more than 8 into a grp.
People who like each other tend to log as often in as possible so they can play together.

Play the gane to have fun - you have fun by playing with nice people you know and like.

the problem is, that a lot of people think a guild is ether about being on constantly, or about fighting all the time.

maybe in GW it is *supposed* to be like that, but hey, people we have our own lives here.
just because the leader isnt sitting behind thier pc everyday, making sure that *you* get what you want, dosent mean its a bad guild.
ok, so you cant have a guild fight if the leader is off? then have a guild hunt. take a party and go clean out an area or something.
BOND with your fellow guildmates, talk to them, find out if there is some item/wepon ect that they have been looking for all the time they have been playing the game (excludes the 15k stuff, the rare crafting drops ect)

other guilds in other games i have been in, they did this type of thing. i find a set of shamen pants, male and ask over guild chat, 'is anyone looking for this item?'
since its useless to me for anything other than cash (theres no salvage in that game) i wait and hark, the guild leader is on, and needs some of them for small guild fights against magic based guilds, so, i give him the item and i get a thank you.

THANK YOU...something few people seem to say these days to anyone in game, other than the newbies you give info to in Pre

what did i get out of giving my leader those pants? well, for one, a thanks. for two, later gave me a high durability staff, and for three, i feel a bit more usefull.

Guild Hunts are usefull, people, specially when the leader/officers are out of game. keep the memebers happy with something to do.
(though, we still need that guild stash to make proper use of Hunts. call it Mat gathering and have people collect as many salvage items as poss, then use a ceap kit and convert them. think about it, if the guild can help you get even some of your materials for a set of armour when your in it, arent you going to help them out in return? i sure hope so)

as to little guilds..i have one, just me and a friend right now. it may not be about getting into the top 50 for us, or even getting into the underworld, but i sure as frell hope its more than just about what *I* want as leader

be a bit more humble sometimes, and think, 'if i do this, will everyone loose out?'

Well, since you asked, i just set one up. (we have been using private forums since guild creation)

http://www.0kuntz.ca/nu/index.php

F.U.N.E.R.A.L

You want me to play GW over seeing my friend in a coffin that I've known for years? It's kind of people like you that give GW a bad name.

If I was inactive for a week, than I'll understand. But three days?

Noone expects you to play GW over seeing your dead friend. But i'm still inclined to agree with his statements. If they let you go so easily, you obviously werent seen as an asset. You probably should have communicated more clearly to your guild why and how long you'd be away so you didnt have any surprises in store for you when you got back.

I just got kicked out of my guild because i had to leave when we were holding hoh, we held it for 5 matches last night, i had to leave after the 4th so i got kicked, seriously, its very annoying. Why would they kick me out when they know i am an important player considering they only won 1 other match without me? MartyX, i am in a new guild that is very awesome, they dont kick you out for having a social life and they are good players also, not as good as my other guild but its much funner playing with them, ill send you an invite.

That is why I did not bother with PvP much, many people there just want to win (not PvE is much better in that matter) and could not care less about you and your problems ...

I thin the best guilds are either huge "we could not care less" guilds that take anyone and are made by players that want a large number of people so if case they need help they can get 7-8 members at a instance (making ascention grind less of a pain) or small "friends" guilds that are made of people that know each other and I dont think any of those guilds will have much future in the guild rating.

Ive been in my guild for almost 2 months now, and they merged , so I have a whole bunch of new friends and many of the olds ones, its going great.

yes imo, the funnest guilds to be in are the ones that have social lives and dont have the best players in them, im not saying all top guilds require no social lives, but MOST do, *hint hint* the korean guilds *hint hint*, american top guilds arent so bad, you can have a socal life in them.

To be fair, chilling at a LAN party and drinking soda is equilivent to a house party in Korea.

Go there sometime. You'll see what I mean.

I agree with what others said, the most competitive players are not necessarily the most pleasant company.

I am still in the first guild I ever joined, and while we are interested in PvP and holding the HoH, there is no way we would accept the best PvPer in the world if they had a selfish, immature attitude.

All of us have lives, and while looking for mature team players (who speak complete sentences), we also managed to pick up a good number of very good PvPers. There is no MEMEME attitude, no infighting, all officers (and other members) are chosen carefully, and we dont mind doing a drunken Iron Mines of Moladune run just for the fun of it.

Most of us are still learning the ins and outs of PvP, and while teaching and discussing with each other, we also managed to form the close-knit friendly community that makes people want to remain active... other than just being competitive.

Read what you yourself quoted again before you get all "people like you" on him.

I believe there are all kinds of guilds for all kinds of players. For myself, playing in a small casual guild where I know most of the people works well. We help out on quests/missions, swap gear and materials, run the UW every now and then. In the "high stakes" world of GvG though, I can see where what the OP mentioned becomes a problem. People are competitive, and they'll do anything to get and keep an edge. If they think they can do better in their own guild, they'll bolt... and take your best players with you. When the name of the game is winning... anything goes I'm afraid.

I think it really depends on the attitude and what you want to achieve. When I started to play with my girlfriend, we made the first quests and everything together. After leaving Pre-Searing, we made our own guild because we wanted a nice cape. We invited a RL friend and a guy we knew from another online game. That was fine and we had fun and all. We went through the game and after finishing our first characters we decided to enlarge the guild. So we picked up new people, most of them very new to the game and helped them to evolve. That worked well, two of our most trusted members now are from that time. We don't play Tombs as a guild yet but we do some Team PvP. We lose, but it sure is fun and I think we're getting better. Having fun doing a mission and talking on TS is what makes this game great. Playing together, not just competing together.

I guess at high-level PvP you just can't choose too much, but I'd rather pick a guild for attitude then for achievements. Better join a Top-50 which is a great community then a Top-10 where everybody wants to win at all cost.

now we don't have the same problems many do but I'm not going to lie and say we have none... I thin kevery group has some. I am currently leader of the guild not the gaming clan. so I just enforce rules that the gaming council sets forth. We are larger then guildwars alone... As such we have many members, and actually a few guilds all together which is nice cause we practice with each other with unrated guild matches. But I personally don't mind some members or officers on occasion being offline for days or weeks. I would be worried is all they did was play this game...

We play many games and do not devote all our free time to just guildwars, so I would never expect everyone else too as well... But Maybe that is just us. I look at this week. I only averaged around 12 hours last week on guildwars. all be it we are not Top PvP players or anything. I actually prefer the PvE environment, but support PvP wholeheartedly within the guild. so we got all kinds. One of our brother guilds MSK is extremely PvP... and we play with them often in Tombs. however most of our guild battles of late are all unrated, cause we are getting people used to the PvP system... It will be wonderful once the Guild Practice mode or Guild arena is made... Arenanet has mentioned this and has stated they expect to have it soon. then our gaming guilds can pull together and have more online between us for effective guild battles...

You answered your problem within your own post.
Solution: seek out a guild where those aren't the entrance requirements.

Maybe you need to be more selective about who you join?

My guild is comprised at the moment completely of freinds who all work together at the same place. We have no young members (all late 20's or older), and we're in it together to enjoy the game and help each other out.

I've found it very interesting - you can almost always find a few of us running around ina party together. When we made our first run into FoW (6 guild members in all, +2 we picked up at the Temple) one of the paty members seemed to be in shock at seeing so many guild members together in one place.

That's what it's about, to us. of course, one difference is that we are completly PvE focused - so we're here to enjoy the game, get through the story, quest together, etc. We hold an (almost) weekly ascention run to help members get characters ascended. We help each other out with resources, and things we've picked up.

The guild thing is, to us, very cool.

This guild problems happened alot. Seem that people want to become officer the instant they join the guild and if you don't make him/her officer, they would leave and try to find a guild that would let them be officer. I don't get this, why should a officers argue with the leader of the guild? I mean what is it for, to get more power within the guild?

There are still guilds out there that is about having fun and doing PvP, instead of being active and keep winning matches. I do agree that its depends on the attitude of players within the guild, if you join a guild that is all about winning matches and your not active, than its a bad idea to be there. Same goes with joining the less active guild and you want to constantly do PvP/GvG!