Upcoming skill balance

There is no info about that but probably there will be another skill changes. At least I hope so.

So, lets start posting which skill we suggest be changed. Post the skill, the change and the reason for doing it so. And please try to be constructive, not just "cuz it sux lol". I am preparing some war (so far TOO much) skills, and update my post when go home. I will not focus on the mesmer and the faction classes + some of the new skills since I do not have much experiance upon them. Mostly mine is from gvg and ha battles + observing top guilds matches and of course my humble pondering.

Added ranger and some Notes resulting to some posts

Warrior

Disrupting chop (axe mastery) - Well it is good as it is, people seems to like it. ((Old suggestion: Increasing the attack speed to 3/4 (since 1.33 may miss 2 sec spells))

Cleave (axe) - Damage increased to 10-33 (from 10-31). It can have some minor "love".

Crude swing (hammer) - Removed the easily interupted drawback. Probably recharge +1sec. This drawback is overput, compared to all other similar like. Note: I don't see why crude swing must have easily interupt. Anyway most of the time this will be drawback to PvE guys, since in PvP almost noone attacks the war 'just for that'.

Belly smash - recharge reduced to 20. (well the situation you will blind someone who will suffer from it except the fallen one is not that often)

Iresistible blow - recharge +2 secs. (pretty good skill IMO, maybe more than needed)

I will survive - recharge reduced to 20 (this can be some descent anti bleed/poison skill)

Berserker stance - recharge reduced to 25 (well I think in GW's system the won't put recharge to 25, it must be 30 or 20, but 20 is too good, if it is 20, probably increased energy cost) (It is cool, but probably used 1-2 times in encounter) Note: 25 or 30 is not big deal, it is descen adrenalin builder anyway.

Defy pain - duration increasing as Endure pain (7-19 secs) (The one's that use it will probably benefit from higher str.)

Dwarven battle stance - recharge reduced to 20, attack speed increased to 15%. (noone uses that anyay, and most 1 sec spells can STILL be sneaked threw the hits)

Griffon's Sweep - add cannot be blocked. (Why not? it is weak compared to irreristable if blocked just take normal dmg, but not get KD)

Protector's strike - add cripple for 2-10 to the effect, recharge +3. (One extra strike won't make that difference, thus maybe adding a cripple will make this one a good along with the bull's strike) Note: dudes think it is fine as it is. Ok.

Shield bash - Rework suggestion as follows: (shield req.) For 4-8 secs, the next time adjustnet target foe uses attack skill, that foe is knocked down and if it was melee skill, it is disabled for aditional 15 secs. (1 time use again) (this skill is barely used anyway, and if changed like this it may happen to have some more use of saving ally's not just yourself)

Warrior's cunning - recharge reduced to 45 (or even 30 but may be too imba then...better 45) (60 secs is pretty long time. Encounter could end)

Hundred Blades - Recharge reduced with a sec (or two).

Savage slash - recharge reduced to 15 (I woner can they make it 15, since in the system it is often 20, 30, 45, 60 etc)(well it is now good, but once in a 20 secs can reaally question it's location on the bar)

Seeking blade - damage increased to +1-28 (since adding bleeding is not that much as KD or Deep wound) Another ideas are damage stays +1-21 it adds Deep Wound, or +1-21 and it cripples. (It is weak compared to it's hammer relative)

Both Riposte - possible rework - (sword req.) For 8 secs, the next time adjutent target foe uses a melee attack, that attack fails and that foe suffers (maybe a bit reduced dmg) (and on of the riposte get bleed).

Defensive stance - recharge reduced to 30 (ends with skill usage, pretty much used only when moving or building adrenalin under pressure)


Deflects arrows - add +10 armor agains piercing (omg assins hate) (well, this skill is nothing compared to others, but it JUST blocks arrows. Pretty useless if you ask me, why take this when you can just take some other which will block all attacks with a little drawback)

Discipline stance - recharge reduced to 20 (ends with adrenal skill, stays less than defensive) (it is 10 en) It is 10 energy skill so warriors cannot pump it, It ends in 11 secs also, thus again limited use. Can be used to gain adrenalin and using mana skills, which probably will render you out of energy anyway.

Gladriators defence - recharge reduced to 20 (too imba? switch target, use antistance skills, wait to end) It is anti melee skill anyway. Similar to Escape, which have 2 benfists, this also have 2, but it last less time, that is why I suggest reduction to 20 rech.)

Protector's stance - recharge reduced to 30 (you must not move, thus probably won't attack melee. I mean enemy war can be 2 feet away from yer sword and you must move and end the stance to hit him. Very good for bodyguard and npc defense)

Shield stance - recharge reduced to 30. It already require a shield, thus only some warriors may use it. Also it slows you movement.

Shove - You do not lose all adrenalin, you do not get attacks dissabled. Energy increased to 10 or dmg reduced to 10-42. Other variant is E stays 5, dmg too, one 1 drawback (adrenalin loss OR attacks diss). Currently it requires too much and Probably only usable on some hybrid build. Note: Rework idea - Shove - you move THREW target foe KDing him (no bodyblockers) and skill remain with all it's negative sides and lose it's damage.

Warry stance - recharge reduced to 30 (well compared to other stance's suggestions, this will fade out otherwise)

For great justice - recharge reduced to 30. People are not using it these days. Strong side is that is shout and may be combined with some stance.

Flurry - duration increased to 8. (Just like frenzy except for some strange hybrid builds)

Skull Crack - recharge reduced to 8 (yay ^^)


Ranger

Throw dirt - recharge reduced to 30. (before it was elite, but now it is low recharge touch blind)

Whirling - recharge reduced to 45 (Well...same reason as above)

Power & point blank shot, precision - dmg increased to +10-30 (So far dual shot with NO preparations and nature rituals is as efficient as those 2 on soft target, well at least maybe that way power shot may see actual use over the dual shot)

Glass arrows - cause bleeding to all adjustent foes also if blocked.

Lightning reflexes - duration increased to 5-16 (too high may result in whirling underused). (Almost noone takes it for defense since it got 5-11 duration and no one take it for atttack since it recharges for 45 secs...I sometimes take it vs irresistable just to not get KD if bloking with whirling)

Pin down recharge reduced to 8. (In gvg I've seen only archer npc using it)

Determination shot - reworked to recharge stances OR preparations or similar stuff, since almost all attacks recharge for max 6 seconds anyway. (except the pin down lol)

Splinter shot - damage taken including the target that blocked it. Way too much conditional.

Dryder's defences - recharge reduced to 45 (cool skill...but barely seen. Once I saw it as flag runner combined with greater confligulation (typos?))

Antidote signet - rework: gives 6,7,8? secs of immunity to those conditions. Recharge increased to 15. I fear it will become a way too imbalanced (war's applying it before spike), maybe remaint in it's current stay but remove bleed and cripple, also +2 recharge.

Dual shot - recharge increased to 10. (too superiour to power shot on softs even without preparations and spirits).

Quick shot - maybe attack speed set to 3/4 ? (recharge stays same) Well, it won't actually but if very much, since it is used as mid combo most of the time.

About beast mastery skills - most of them are good, bad side is that you must really get used to the pet's way of doing things. It lags, it blocks, it tend to forget some skills and NOT attack when you are not doing it. I agree - taking the pet requires too many slots, so many of the MANY skills it have, are not taken at all at the limited skill bar.

Moved to suggestion forum where it belongs.

More suggestions:

Shove (elite), reduce blackout time, increase damage, reduce recharge

Whirling Axe (elite), increase damage (28?), reduce blackout time to 10 seconds when evaded



Vampiric Touch, bite, increase rechage time/reduce damage or increase casting time to 1s.

Combine Charm animal and comfort animal into one skill, right a higher rate of healing.

Don't let the poor necros (literarily) bleed for excesses of other professions!
No "cross-class nerfs" please >.<

Warrior's Hundred Blades. The reset time is too high and it's too hard to hit multiple targets with it. I've already made a lot of points on why it should be buffed in my thread. Here are a couple suggestions I've already made for it:
I Also think that all of the assassin Shadow Stepping skills, especially Death's Charge, should have their reset times dramatically reduced.

Damn i want that first Hundred Blades suggestion... That would really make me use hundred blades instead of Dragon Slash or Quivering Blade!
And agreed on the shadow stepping too, because it's too damn cool.

id say dont do cross nerfing if you do the necro thing cuz of the ranger build its not good better nerf something else.

if you having problems with the touch ranger get in a team that has an ele or a mesmer in it cuz that is the way to stop it.

I dont like the idea of the necro nefed pal.

Half of the suggestions here arent even needed... disrupting chop? It's really fine as it is, people use it a LOT. If you want 1/4 sec interrupts play mesmer.

IMO game is awesomely balanced atm. Yes some skills could use a tweak, but nothing major.

disrupting chop deals damage AND it stops the skill for +20 secs.

there really is no need to nerf/buff it, its fine as it is.

Only thing I think needs a change is the following:

We need to destinguish attack skills from skills.
Expertise should only trigger on attack skills (requiring weapon use)

Air of enchancement?

I absolutely agree with you! Wonderful idea!

I also think Blinding Flash needs adjusting. Blinding is cheap (4 energy every 4 seconds with dual Attunements) and completely shuts down 3 different character classes (Rangers, Warriors, Assassins). Should Dazed be so cheap and easy to apply, to shut down all the caster classes? No, I didn't believe so. It should have a longer recharge, so a single ele can't keep 3 or 4 enemies blind continuously.

I just posted all about the warrioir. Well probably some of them will get imbalanced, but of course those are only suggestions, no more than that. If we post some ideas some of the devs may get inspired and change a skill or two more than the ones they planned )

The bad stuff is that my point is based on Gvg, thus increasing some of the skill's effect can deliver an imbalaced blow to the smaller arenas, where there is noone to remove your blind, or similar help.

Feel free to flame my madness ))

Don't fret about recharges at starnge values, of course they can.

Although I don't want it to, I fully expect AoE to hit the chopping block. A minimum 1e cost would be the most change I'd feel acceptable, but knowing how things go I expect the recharge to be increased as well.

Well will they or won't they nerf Mantra of Recall or Energy Drain like Offering of Blood.I would have to say that the boon signet needs a buff I don't find it very usefull useing Devine Boon.

I agee with savage slash as sword warriors have been hampered by the nerf and axe warriors haven't.

they need to buff sword warriors a tad more too, a sword warrior hitting you is like having a monk pinging you.

Disagree
Agree
Disagree
45
Disagree
5e/15 recharge, no damage, disables all non-attack for 15-10 seconds
Disagree

You need to spend some more time on other classes.

I suggest to don't nerf anything.

Good players are sick and tired of having any skill that doesn't suck nerfed to crap just because bad players don't bring any counters to it.

I Just remembered something else that I tink needs to be changed. I Think Riposte and Deadly Riposte need to be moved to the Swordsmanship line. It's a really bad idea to have it use a single weapon (when the warrior has a choice from 3) but not have it linked at all to that weapon's attribute. If there's something preventing that, like causing there to be moer sword skills than axe or hammer ones, then remove the sword requirement from it.
The problem with it isn't so much imbalance, but that it's completely illogical.

somthing to mess with the souls barbs spike?

Skillbalances and nerfs are not only there to keep all the skills balanced. They're sometimes also made to get the metagame going again. If the whole PVP Aspect is severely stuck due to one or two builds, some nerfs and rebalances will happen.
As they did with Dual Smiting, Spiritspamming, Healing Ball, Air Spike, Iway etc. You still see some of these builds in one way or another but most of them disappeared for a good reason, they made the game boring. And don't flame me because i included Iway in that list. It's just a fricking FOTM just like every other and it was nerfed.
Yes there was a time where every team was Iway, but guess what? Those are over. I hardly ever see an Iway Team anymore.

Aside from this point of view:
AoE will probably NOT be nerfed. It's still a young skill.

Blinding Flash should NOT be nerfed. Warriors simply have insane damage output and thus, counters should be manifold and easy. If you make blinding fash useless, you'll have to weaken warriors a great deal.

Boon of Creation will be nerfed. Enough people are complaining about Ritualists having a purpose in the game. And they will get their support. The problem with Boon of Creation is that this single skill is insanely powerful and the engine of a Spiritspammer. Remember what happened to all those powerful Engines? Ether Renewal (that one was whack...) ? Offering of Blood? Energy Drain?
Plus, with Boon you can actually get more energy back than you've used in the first place. Cast a 5 Energy spirit and you'll be getting a free +3 Energy. Kind of makes the Energy Signet to steal energy from your spirits worthless and useless.

They aren't attacks though, they belong in tactics.

dwarven battle stance is in strenght but its a hammer stance ;P

I think riposte/deadly riposte are fine for PvE. They need a buff into something actually useful. It uses the sword, but its really more of a stance.

...and this is all because warriors need to own pvp even more than they do now...

/agree

Why not remove everything else from the game and call it Warrior Wars?

Game update 06/07/2006

Removed the following:

Mesmers
Necromancers
Elementalists*
Rangers
Assassins
Ritualists
Monks

*Moved 'Shock' to Warrior attribute: Strength. /endsarcasm

Ffs people, warrior skills need adjusted in the other direction.

Especially Irresistible Blow. You are a ranger facing a hammer warrior/thumper and are taking a beating so you use Whirling Defense. They use Iressistible Blow and you're on the ground. That totally defeats the point of a defensive stance so I'd say lengthen the recharge time or buff ranger stances by reducing recharge times. Guild Wars is ridiculously warrior-orientated right now.

I Don't believe Warriors are as strong as they are because of their skills. Use warrior skills with any other primary and they're well beyond underwhelming. The problem is probably that they have innate armor piercing for damage, and 100+ AL +5 reduction for defense.
The tradeoff is supposed to be that they have really weak energy. But because of their adrenaline skills and signets, it's easily possible (and common) to have a warrior that doesn't even use energy, or atleast almost none.
So you have a character that, before even using any skills at all, has un-opposed defense, and afterwards has offense that is only closely rivaled by Assassins.

meh... I'm still wondering why you aren't complaining that wild blow isn't elite since it makes your trusty stance go poof..., just hex the person, throw a clumsiness1 faintheartedness on him and enjoy interrupting his attacks, heck blind him and see him swinging into oblivion.

rangers are already one of the most powerfull other chars... and basis of a lot of the fotms... (ranger spike, iway (pets, tigers fury,...), vampiric rangers) so you really don't have to complain.

the only ones that might complain are the ritualists and eles... as well as on occasion the assasin and the mesmer.

edit: and wow get a ward of stability going and see that shock be useless... not forgetting that its elite, has a high recharge and 2 very high disadvantages. It really is only decent as a gimmick build.

I agree with the majority, apart from Prot Strike, which I think is easily strong enough as it is.

I'm sorry, but that is just straight up idiotic. Buffing bad skills that Warriors currently don't use to a point where they MIGHT take them over something else is not making them "own pvp even more". It is actually called correctly balancing the game. Just because the OP decided to focus his post on Warriors does not mean that is the only class he feels that has skills that needs buffing. Unlike a lot of people, including yourself, he merely decided to post only about things he knew about.

Well let me say as as ive run both a W/Mo KD/HS and a Bunny Thumper, you coudlnt be more wrong.

Irres IS an anti-stance. Thats the point. If it pisses you off, blind the warrior or ranger. And theres quite a few blinding skills.

A warrior spamming Irres is gonna run of out of energy, so he wont have energy for sprint, energy for crushing blow or for the after KD combo (Aftershock or Holy Strike).

A bunny thumper meanwhile is designed to spam it continously because theres very few hammer attacks for a ranger that doesnt use adrenaline (and also doubles as an anti stance)

Proper kiting helps negates the damage of a hammer user and prevents adrenaline buildup. I know this because its been used on me a lot and it works.

and since were on the subject of hammers, i really do want a slight buff on Dwarven Battle Stance. its one of my favorite but lease useful stances.

You wanna know really is what straight up idiotic?
It's that Warrior is the only class that rocked pretty much eveything ever since I started playing GW. Warrior is the only class that didn't have any nerfs on my memory. Warrior is the most self sufficient and brainless class in the game. Warrior has the best armor and the best single target damage. Warrior is counter to everything. Warrior even has best looking armors and weapons in game and widest variety. Warrior is pretty much designed for i-pwn-joo-noob kids who have no brain or guts to play fair game.
And don't you tell me about warrior hate and team efforts to stop them. If a single warrior requires so much hate and teamwork to stop him, that DOES mean he needs a huge nerf.

And what is REALLY straight up idiotic is posts like yours calling me idiot for showing you your place. So how about no? How about warrior needs no buffing at all? How about a nice juicy nerf on recharge times and armor penetration across the board for a change?
But oh noes! That could actually make warriors balanced!

/endsarcasm.

...Please tell me you were being sarcastic... That has got to be THE most moronic post in this whole thread.

On topic, I agree with most of the suggestions, though I don't think Sun and Moon or Protector's Strike really need a buff. I really like the Ripostes in the Tactics line, too. It encourages massive farm-err... it encourages cross attribute builds

Prot strike definitely doesn't need a buff.

And to play a warrior well it is far from brainless.

The thing that makes up for warriors being so powerful (which they are) is the amount of warrior hate at your disposal. Just take a look at balanced builds today, a signficiant amount of the skills that are involved in them is to counter the warrior hate (drains for aegis, draw for blind/cripple, snares to prevent kiting), and a lot of everything else is so that your team can deal with enemy warriors (blackouts to reset adrenaline, wards, blurred vision, snares, etc... ). The fact is with the exception of some gimmick builds, warriors have always meant to be the source of damage in a build, simply proven by them being so powerful and the large number of skills designed to work against them

compare how much elementalist hate exists in GW and how much of it used in PvP... And then ask yourself why.

Um.... Hahaha. Warrior rights huh? I agree, some skills could use some reworking. Shield Bash could definitely be more interesting. However I do kinda' think anet need to really start thinking about painting the rest of the yard.

I hope the eles are finally allowed near the fire, instead of being left out in the cold to shiver and die (Come on. Re-wording a few skills? You serious?)

"I was cold, I was hungry, were you there, were you there. I was cold, I was hungry, were you there..."

People say it's easy to be a warrior, I say it's even easier to be a crappy warrior. More often than not, if you truely think it's a thoughtless job, you either didn't play the job too long or didn't play the job too good.

No arguement there.

Pressure is the counter to everything, not warriors. If a warrior cannot pressure a blind-bot, he is not pressuring it, therefor he isn't countering it.

What does that have to do with a skill balancing discussion?

I'll leave thatup to the readers to interpret...

Either that or other professions need a buff???

Boy are we lucky you aren't a developer! We'd have a pretty crappy game. Ok, let's imagine that for a minute Warriors did not exist. This game would degrade to 1 of 4 builds: Degan Builds, Gimmic Builds, Spike Builds, annd Gimmic Spike builds.

Let's say someone wanted to run a "Balanced" build, complete with all casters. They go up against a similiar build.

Rhetorical question: How long would a GvG match take with Elementalists as primary damage dealers (Not spiking)?

Do you see where I'm going at? A monk with a shread of decentcy can heal for ages against Non-gimmic, Non-spike, Non-degan "balanced" caster builds. Every match would become a VoD match. Everyone would be calling for a nerf to Marksmanship and Dagger Mastery.

Untill they make casters realistic damage dealers, this game needs Warriors as the primary damage dealers. Nerf to warriors = games taking just that much longer.

But how could they make Casters realistic damage dealers without making them even better spikers?

You got me there. I don't even know. The problem is so deep, it'd takeages to change (I'm praying that they've been working on something. For one, they'd have to take off the ridiculous aftercast on spells. Change 80 percent of Elementalist skills so they don't have a retarded recharge/cast time/unneccessary Exhaustion. Possibly rework Energy Storage.



Summary: Don't nerf warriors. Buff casters. Nerfing warriors would only promote gimmic/spike builds, make matches slower, and have everyone yelling for a Ranger (a RANGED attacker) and an Assassin nerf.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with warriors as a class. They're a well balanced, well designed profession, which offers players lots of viable routes to building an effective character.

Warriors are not overpowered. The reason they're played so much in PvP is a direct consequence of the insane energy efficiency of monks. When monk heals have, at a minimum, twice the efficiency of any direct damage spell in the game, you're forced into playing a warrior to compensate by default.

You want to see less warriors? Either reduce the effectiveness of monk heals, or buff the energy efficiency of offensive casters. The elementalist in particular needs a lot of attention.

quoted for the mother f'ing truth.

Any necro usnig vamp bite and vamp touch suck already so go ahead and nerf them more ><