Well after playing Factions PvE, Prophecies is a cake walk...
The mobs are closer together, the bosses have insane attributes, and you really got to stick close together as a party to survive. Overall I have to agree with most people here, take less people, mess with your attributes and armor to make the game more difficult.
I play mostly PvE and I'm still not sick of it. I been in those kind of groups wheres its 5 left, 3 left and still came out victorious. I think the difficulty of PvE comes from the individuals.
Some people find it easy, others are stuck forever at the desert or Thunderhead.
If Anet really wanted to increase the difficulty, they wouldn't make bugger mobs or higher level enemies, but they'd even out the playing field.
The only advantage every player has is the skills and secondary profession. Imagine fighting Charrs with a full skill bar and a secondary profession. People would be changing their builds at every outpost.
Because of that skill advantage thats why you can still have a low man team, and come out victorious.
But again I agree with others, wnat to make more difficult bring less skills, even the playing field on your end, but some people need a bigger learning curve so making the overall game more difficult would turn alot of people off.
How sad of a state the PvE is in Guild Wars...
Rusty Deth
Hollerith
Mhenlo and Togo add to the easiness as well.
I'm a big proponent of making groups smaller. I always only bring 5 or 6 henchies to
a) make my effectiveness easier to discern.
b) make the mission harder, because 7 henchies makes the game easier than 7 real players.
c) mad lewt, man.
I would love for PvE to be incredibly hard, where it would become beneficial to coordinate group builds. Funnest (and most devestating) PvE group I've done was a Warrior/Orders group in FoW.
I'm a big proponent of making groups smaller. I always only bring 5 or 6 henchies to
a) make my effectiveness easier to discern.
b) make the mission harder, because 7 henchies makes the game easier than 7 real players.
c) mad lewt, man.
I would love for PvE to be incredibly hard, where it would become beneficial to coordinate group builds. Funnest (and most devestating) PvE group I've done was a Warrior/Orders group in FoW.
WasAGuest
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hollerith
I would love for PvE to be incredibly hard, where it would become beneficial to coordinate group builds. Funnest (and most devestating) PvE group I've done was a Warrior/Orders group in FoW.
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When Chapter 3 comes out, I would imagine getting a full group for VSquare will be more difficult then it is now. And that one is nearly impossible with henchies cause they are to flat dumb to heal Togo as it is now.
It is possible, but it borders on boring and frustrating rather than fun and you can forget getting the title if you have to use henchies in their current state... course you can pretty much forget the title using PuGs of late as well... ugh
Jetdoc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe
Every mission before then is easily henched...
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dreamhunk
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
You were around when they made the AI move out of AoE radius weren't you? You don't remember the 3000 page long petitions to put it back how it was, and how many people said they were leaving because of it? I'm all for making PvE difficult, but alot of players can't and won't adapt to change.
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I can tell you for a fact this pvp players saying pve is weak!
I will tell you what is sad, that I have a hard time getting in to a group in tombs with my favraite class elemental or sorrows.
There is no monks in some places, the henchies don't cut it.
it takes hours to get into a group in some missions
people only look for cookie cuter builds!
Pve is is a mindless hack and slash and fedex run!
WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by dreamhunk
I can tell you for a fact this pvp players saying pve is weak!
I will tell you what is sad, that I have a hard time getting in to a group in tombs with my favraite class elemental or sorrows. There is no monks in some places, the henchies don't cut it. it takes hours to get into a group in some missions people only look for cookie cuter builds! |
On the subject of no monks around; I'm one of those monks who will not, never ever, no way in ____, ever PuG any quest or mission. I've had one too many fools think they are invinsible with a monk behind them and then scream and curse when they get themselves killed.
Anet, are you reading this? We need better henchies. The idea that poor henchies makes for people getting groups easier is not working and many areas are becoming void of players. Hello?
dreamhunk
Yea know what I want people to take a good look at tombs, sorrows,ha
telling me how meny elemtals you see! really I want them to count!
telling me how meny elemtals you see! really I want them to count!
Effendi Westland
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Originally Posted by WasAGuest
Anet, are you reading this? We need better henchies. The idea that poor henchies makes for people getting groups easier is not working and many areas are becoming void of players. Hello?
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Henchies > pugs, always.
Argen
I thought the idea of the PvE was a training ground for PvP. Than ANet came out with additional zones of higher level critters UW, FoW, SF, and ToPK for more PvE challenge. Until you get to those zones, henchies seem to work pretty decently. I henched THK a couple of times and pugged it a couple of times. I dig get a full group at Hell's Precipice.
There are some new zones in Factions that are a bit tougher because of the time restrictions.
I play more PvE than PvP now... but find both aspects of the game to be entertaining, the challenge maybe less in PvE, but you can sit back and relax a bit more, sometimes PvP gets a bit too high-charged.
If you are complaining about it being too difficult, than SLOW down, learn your skills and experiment a bit. During the school year I have about 8-10 hours a week to spend playing, but I managed to set aside a bit of my game time to make me a better player by learning skill combinations, some basic strategies, and how to make the henchies work. If you spend the time doing the same, you'll find that PvE is more than workable.
There are some new zones in Factions that are a bit tougher because of the time restrictions.
I play more PvE than PvP now... but find both aspects of the game to be entertaining, the challenge maybe less in PvE, but you can sit back and relax a bit more, sometimes PvP gets a bit too high-charged.
If you are complaining about it being too difficult, than SLOW down, learn your skills and experiment a bit. During the school year I have about 8-10 hours a week to spend playing, but I managed to set aside a bit of my game time to make me a better player by learning skill combinations, some basic strategies, and how to make the henchies work. If you spend the time doing the same, you'll find that PvE is more than workable.
Lasher Dragon
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Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe
I enjoy a challenge more than I enjoy slaughtering easy monsters all the time, and I know more people feel the same.
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Eviance
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Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu
Shiro falls to cookie cutter rama, but he can hurt a balanced build. Also I think Raisu was the last mission, that mission is pretty hard. Oh and umm DOWN WITH STUPID BITCH LEAVERS!
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And don't get me started on leavers.... It's come up several times on the board and well, I have some not so nice things to say for leavers -_-
Anyways me and and two guildies beat it with pretty much just the 3 of us... The henchies were DPed out (2hits to devona and she was GONE!) and we had lost someone lol... We had some scarey agro and it didnt go near as smooth as yours did, but we managed.
dreamhunk
rpg players want rpg not more hack and slash! monster ai could never ever really get better really good luck with that.
make things too hard there will never be fresh blood to this game. This game will be like ha
gw is nothing more than fps. really!
make things too hard there will never be fresh blood to this game. This game will be like ha
gw is nothing more than fps. really!
Lasher Dragon
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
Quote:
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WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by Effendi Westland
Poor henchies? So on 3 missions out of 24 the henchies dont work that well for the avarage players. I think the avarage PUG has a record that is much worse.
Henchies > pugs, always. |
I 100% agree with you that henchies are often better than most PuGs. The problem is, that the henchies aren't "fixed" in a way that allows them to work like they should - take VSquare for example. I've never seen Togo be healed by a henchie healer, so, the mission is a bust the second Togo falls under attack unless there is an actual player monk around. And we all know monks are rare about these days; and I even said I wont take my monk into a PuG... ever.
But it also goes for the other henchies as well. With no way to control them, or issue commands (like a well behaved merc should be able to have done); they border on being a problem rather than an aid.
Thinking way back to Bloodstone Fen and trying to get the bonus there with henchies... henchies auto attack the druids even as you attempt to run past them - failed the bonus.
So it's not about the game being difficult, it's about it not possible to be done with alternate options. PuGs are the worst these days. People running off for map unlocks; capping their needed elite then dropping without warning; and many times there just isn't enough people around. That leaves the fool henchies to baby sit.
scrinner
You guys wanted hard PVE? Hello, are we already forgetting about RUJIYO? OH yeah how about solo tombs... if thats too little, how about you solo The thunderhead keep mission..... With the bonus..
dreamhunk
if I was anet I would make a invisible boss that you cannot beat. the ony way to be beat him is not by hack and slash it is by thinking and play like rpg player
you see all the pvp hardcore noobs sitting for hour try ing to beat really ,lol
you see all the pvp hardcore noobs sitting for hour try ing to beat really ,lol
Silent Kitty
I challenge the GW programmers to come up with a solution like this: Make monsters as tough relatively to the party size and guild size. When you have a party of 8 guildies, make the monsters godly, and when you have a party of 8 PUGs, make them less than godly.
When one partymember leaves, monsters AI goes down too. With all this make the drop quality go down too, so when you solo a quest, you get almost only whites and blues.
When one partymember leaves, monsters AI goes down too. With all this make the drop quality go down too, so when you solo a quest, you get almost only whites and blues.
WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
I challenge the GW programmers to come up with a solution like this: Make monsters as tough relatively to the party size and guild size. When you have a party of 8 guildies, make the monsters godly, and when you have a party of 8 PUGs, make them less than godly.
When one partymember leaves, monsters AI goes down too. |
Then fix the henchie AI so players can jump into the game quickly rather than wasting half an evening for time wasting PuGs and we'll have a winner.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
With all this make the drop quality go down too, so when you solo a quest, you get almost only whites and blues.
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Warden Horns FTW!
frickett
I like pve the way it is. You will have bad pugs, You will have leavers and leechers. That shouldnt keep you from trying.
Dark Dragon
But if drop quality goes down would that not make the leaving situation worse, as when one person finds a item they want, they drop and then its less likely for the rest of the group to get good items.
And if that contiues and like 3 ppl are left then they might as well leave becuase there not going to find anything worth having.
dunno might be a good idea scaling the mobs up depending on the group though
And if that contiues and like 3 ppl are left then they might as well leave becuase there not going to find anything worth having.
dunno might be a good idea scaling the mobs up depending on the group though
WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by frickett
I like pve the way it is. You will have bad pugs, You will have leavers and leechers. That shouldnt keep you from trying.
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A few months ago, a bad PuG here and there was par for the course and something we went "meh" about. Now bad PuGs are so common they are the majority and getting one without the majority of people leaving is as rare as a perfect crystaline sword. In other words, a lost and hopeless cause for most players.
The quality of PuGs will only get worse as well as more chapters come out and the player base is further spread out. Then add in the cookie cutter mentality of most PuGs and... bah.
To clarify, I enjoy the interaction with some people (the mature ones). Meeting new people is always fun. I enjoy hearing other peoples thoughts and points of view. What I don't like is people who are immature and act like fools (which just so happens to include 90% of those I have ended up with in PuGs over the past week or so). I am tired of them wasting my time and effort or using me to get their caps and map titles. This leaves me with henchies or guildies. Guildies are tired of Factions and have already finished Chapter 1 numberous times so they, for the most part, are playing something else or are waiting for Chapter 3. So, henchies are what's left and they aren't smart or useful enough to get the job done (Protector of Cantha with henchies?).
Silent Kitty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by frickett
I like pve the way it is. You will have bad pugs, You will have leavers and leechers. That shouldnt keep you from trying.
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My Passion
<---ranger, war and necro are not only my best but my favorites. It's always fun to be leading a spike or assisting in one to give it that extra power. I've played an ele runner but I enjoy the old crip shot ranger runner overall.
Skuld
if you want a hard boss kill kanaxai
Zehnchu
To add to the toughness play an Assassin, i’m sure that will break you.
PvE easy when
1. You refuse to leave the island.
2. You run the cookie cutter build never changing skills.
3. If you don’t play as an assassin.
4. Take the path of less resistance.
5. Believe that uber player and give no credit to monks/ritualists keeping you alive.
6. Pull one monster at a time and gang up on it.
7. Leave in a party lager then one.
8. Don’t take an assassin with you.
9. Use celestial skill against Shiro.
10. Join a group of seven assassins to beat Shiro.
11. Join a group of seven warriors to beat Shiro.
12. Don’t want to take Shiro on by yourself knowing for a fact you will get whooped up on.
13. Get your armor infused.
PvE easy when
1. You refuse to leave the island.
2. You run the cookie cutter build never changing skills.
3. If you don’t play as an assassin.
4. Take the path of less resistance.
5. Believe that uber player and give no credit to monks/ritualists keeping you alive.
6. Pull one monster at a time and gang up on it.
7. Leave in a party lager then one.
8. Don’t take an assassin with you.
9. Use celestial skill against Shiro.
10. Join a group of seven assassins to beat Shiro.
11. Join a group of seven warriors to beat Shiro.
12. Don’t want to take Shiro on by yourself knowing for a fact you will get whooped up on.
13. Get your armor infused.
chessyang
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Originally Posted by dreamhunk
if I was anet I would make a invisible boss
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i think the state of PvE is ok. now trying to find a good group in PvE...yeah... *sigh*
WasAGuest
The toughness or difficulty of the mission is not what's being requested. The game can be made as hard or as easy as the player sets themselves up for (plus and minus skill). We need options for doing quests (with bonuses and the timed Canthan missions) because of lack of players that actually play the game to play.
What I mean here, is that there are far too many people that join a group, get something "they need" and then leave without warning. There is the err 7 issue, but that's not as common as those that just drop or at a seconds "sorry g2g" notice.
After so many of those, one gets sick of even trying to get a PuG together and looks to the henchies for all the aforementioned reasons:
Lack of people in the zone
Players wanting only cookie cutter builds
Players not even wanting to go till x amount of monks has joined them (cause they have no idea how to play)
Henchies are what's left and the henchies can't pull off some of the requirements for bonuses and forget it for getting masters on canthan missions (all of them).
What I mean here, is that there are far too many people that join a group, get something "they need" and then leave without warning. There is the err 7 issue, but that's not as common as those that just drop or at a seconds "sorry g2g" notice.
After so many of those, one gets sick of even trying to get a PuG together and looks to the henchies for all the aforementioned reasons:
Lack of people in the zone
Players wanting only cookie cutter builds
Players not even wanting to go till x amount of monks has joined them (cause they have no idea how to play)
Henchies are what's left and the henchies can't pull off some of the requirements for bonuses and forget it for getting masters on canthan missions (all of them).
Hyper Cutter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by WasAGuest
Thinking way back to Bloodstone Fen and trying to get the bonus there with henchies... henchies auto attack the druids even as you attempt to run past them - failed the bonus.
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Russell.Crowe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Erasculio
What you fail completely to grasp is that the last mission of both games isn't exactly the hardest of them. Who cares if you can finish the last mission solo, if it isn't the hardest one (and if it isn't even a hard one)?
You, like many people, "obviously" lack the concept of sample. One mission is not enough to claim that an entire game is hard or not. A single episode (you beating it with 3 people) isn't enough to qualify how hard a mission is or isn't. If your point is, "the Lich is too easy to kill", I would agree with you - that's what you saw (and that has been mentioned for a long time now). If your point is "the Lich is easy so the entire PvE is too easy"...Well...Think again. (Shiro is hard to kill, by the way, unless you have a Warrior in your group - his is the only Celestial Skill that makes it easier. Try to kill him without a Warrior and you'll see what happens - or even better, hench him as something that is not a Warrior and you'll see.) Erasculio |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Try soloing without henchmen. Then come back to me and tell me how easy PvE is.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon
Want a challenge? Learn to solo. The Southern Shiverpeaks is IMO one of the biggest pain-in-the-ass places to solo.
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What almost everyone in here fails to see is that other online games have more difficult PvE and are more difficult to start playing, but they still get new players all the time. I'd have to say that most players I know that play those games and then played Guild Wars found it boring because of this reason.
Silent Kitty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe
Killed Shiro the first time with 8 casters, no monk, so yes, he is too easy. It took 30 seconds.
Over half of prophecies can be solod... Solo is extremely boring... especially doing the same crappy missions over and over again. I'm talking about they need to add more new areas with very difficult PvE, like The Deep and Urgoz Warren. They could maybe even allow you to do the old missions over again, but at a more extreme level which would be more interesting. What almost everyone in here fails to see is that other online games have more difficult PvE and are more difficult to start playing, but they still get new players all the time. I'd have to say that most players I know that play those games and then played Guild Wars found it boring because of this reason. |
Lasher Dragon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe
Solo is extremely boring... especially doing the same crappy missions over and over again. I'm talking about they need to add more new areas with very difficult PvE, like The Deep and Urgoz Warren. They could maybe even allow you to do the old missions over again, but at a more extreme level which would be more interesting.
What almost everyone in here fails to see is that other online games have more difficult PvE and are more difficult to start playing, but they still get new players all the time. I'd have to say that most players I know that play those games and then played Guild Wars found it boring because of this reason. |
Gwmaster
yes PvE is pretty easy but...im playing this game for 13 month now and i havent totaly cleared FoW or UW....Shame on me 
Gorebrex
Want a REAL PvE challenge? Try taking on the Charr with this!
Skuld
invisable boss would floor ppl who don't know how to use tab and c
Age
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe
My guildie friend and I decided to do Hell's Precipice because we needed to do it (I was monk, he was tank), so we got a pug group to do it. We start off fine, clear the first couple of groups... then our other monk dies and decides to leave. The rest of the group decided to continue, because I was sure I could heal them all. Right after this, we get to the warrior boss, kill him, then one of the warriors decides to leave. We now have 6 people, but we decided to continue on. Then right after the warrior boss we get to the Necro boss, kill him, the necros cap, then one of them leaves (we was N/W and he was trying to tank @_@). Now we are down to 5 people, two tanks, and ele (who went afk after this, she only needed bonus for the protector titleh so she leeched it off us), and an SS necro. The one tank tells us it is now impossible, and soon after says he has to "go." So now we are really down to a tank a monk and an SS necro. We decide to carry on, despite the odds. We slowly kill away the groups at the portals, go get the bonus, do the bonus, then kill the portal wraiths. At this point I am suprised how well we are doing, no one is dying at all. We get to Rurik and somehow only manage to pull his group and kill them off slowly with my guildie tanking and using eviscerate and executioners axe, the SS using SS and spinal shivers, and me healing them both. Now comes to the part where we get to fight the Lich. It has been a while since I did this mission, so I couldn't remember how hard he was exactly. I figured him to take little damage, do lots of damage, and take a long time to kill. Instead, he takes a crap load of damage, does very little damage, and dies quickly. We beat it with 3 people for most of the mission. This made me think, "How sad is the PvE if the last mission in the game can be beaten with a random pug of 3 people?" The Lich reminded me of Shiro, except Shiro dies even faster. A good group can kill him in like 30 seconds. Seriously, these are the bosses of both games, and both are this easy to kill? I honestly think they need a buff, along with PvE in general. PvE only becomes a little bit challenging at Thunderhead Keep and afterward. Every mission before then is easily henched. IMO the only decent PvE in the game is The Deep or Urgoz Warren, and it seems that groups are getting much more efficient at those too. I know the game is mostly about PvP, but they could at least spice up the PvE a little bit to make it interesting. I enjoy a challenge more than I enjoy slaughtering easy monsters all the time, and I know more people feel the same.
Just thought I'd share this... I do have screenshots for proof if anyone doesn't believe, but I doubt this is even that amazing... |
Saphatorael
Today i've helped a guildie cap Hundred Blades, the Precipice way... it's been since Factions' release that i've brought my monk to Tyria, and it was... surprising to see how easy that mission went, i just quickly flashed up a random build that had completely no energy management. We finished the mission with only 1 death, because i accidentally let someone die because i was using my other hand to drink some water (whoops)... anyways, Canthan PvE is harder imo, because of the shitload of monsters (Vizunah Square during the head start event, anyone? I somehow managed to get through it though, 8 peeps againts a horde ftw), and Unwaking Waters is just downright tough at times.
And then i haven't started about killing certain bosses in Cantha...
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... GW sometimes STILL amazes me, at how some people still remain to be so crappy at the game, yet get so far (leechers? afk'ers?)...
I know that this sounds arrogant, but it's just my contribution to this thread... some things aren't right in PvE, some things are too easy, some too hard according to many, but imo it's actually just the player that keeps improving... you did it with only '3' chaps, not alot of people can do that... bad state of PvE? NO! You mastered PvE? Apparantly: play another profession and try out completely different styles, you're bound to run into a new challenge (get guildies or friends to experiment and even attune builds to eachother); or try pvp'ing more.
Oh and PS: indeed, Shiro dies easier than let's say, ele bosses in Cantha, those hurt alot more O.o (but then again, i hench almost everything since nobody likes my builds... yet somehow i manage to finish those quests and missions with those crappy henchmen)
And then i haven't started about killing certain bosses in Cantha...
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... GW sometimes STILL amazes me, at how some people still remain to be so crappy at the game, yet get so far (leechers? afk'ers?)...
I know that this sounds arrogant, but it's just my contribution to this thread... some things aren't right in PvE, some things are too easy, some too hard according to many, but imo it's actually just the player that keeps improving... you did it with only '3' chaps, not alot of people can do that... bad state of PvE? NO! You mastered PvE? Apparantly: play another profession and try out completely different styles, you're bound to run into a new challenge (get guildies or friends to experiment and even attune builds to eachother); or try pvp'ing more.
Oh and PS: indeed, Shiro dies easier than let's say, ele bosses in Cantha, those hurt alot more O.o (but then again, i hench almost everything since nobody likes my builds... yet somehow i manage to finish those quests and missions with those crappy henchmen)
scrinner
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
I challenge the GW programmers to come up with a solution like this: Make monsters as tough relatively to the party size and guild size. When you have a party of 8 guildies, make the monsters godly, and when you have a party of 8 PUGs, make them less than godly.
When one partymember leaves, monsters AI goes down too. With all this make the drop quality go down too, so when you solo a quest, you get almost only whites and blues. |
That said, you can see ANET will have to think of another way.
Age
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saphatorael
Today i've helped a guildie cap Hundred Blades, the Precipice way... it's been since Factions' release that i've brought my monk to Tyria, and it was... surprising to see how easy that mission went, i just quickly flashed up a random build that had completely no energy management. We finished the mission with only 1 death, because i accidentally let someone die because i was using my other hand to drink some water (whoops)... anyways, Canthan PvE is harder imo, because of the shitload of monsters (Vizunah Square during the head start event, anyone? I somehow managed to get through it though, 8 peeps againts a horde ftw), and Unwaking Waters is just downright tough at times.
And then i haven't started about killing certain bosses in Cantha... aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... GW sometimes STILL amazes me, at how some people still remain to be so crappy at the game, yet get so far (leechers? afk'ers?)... I know that this sounds arrogant, but it's just my contribution to this thread... some things aren't right in PvE, some things are too easy, some too hard according to many, but imo it's actually just the player that keeps improving... you did it with only '3' chaps, not alot of people can do that... bad state of PvE? NO! You mastered PvE? Apparantly: play another profession and try out completely different styles, you're bound to run into a new challenge (get guildies or friends to experiment and even attune builds to eachother); or try pvp'ing more. Oh and PS: indeed, Shiro dies easier than let's say, ele bosses in Cantha, those hurt alot more O.o (but then again, i hench almost everything since nobody likes my builds... yet somehow i manage to finish those quests and missions with those crappy henchmen) |
Russell.Crowe
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Originally Posted by Age
It would seem to me that you just had a string of good luck but don't forget you started with 8 party group the beginning is the hard part and when you get past the portals it get easier.I would say the Lich is a little harder than Shiro when being in lava.I never once used celestial skills in both missions.You would of failed in the last part of the RoF mission with 3 players.
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Sable Phoenix
If anything, PvE is too difficult. At least in Factions, the difficulty level is much too high. Prophecies might seem easier now if I went back to it, but I haven't played my low level Prophecies characters since I got Factions... have to finish it first. I'm a casual player and having to sink half an hour or more into a single mission only to have to redo the whole thing because of something stupid (like Thunderhead Keep, which almost made me quit playing the game) is not exactly easy, nor fun. It's fun to tackle a mission and beat it. Having to redo it over and over isn't, and Factions missions do that to you way too often.