Sorry if there is already a thread for this - but you guys have your search disabled all of the time.
So.....
How many of you 12v12 players are sick and tired of these touch rangers?? Personally I don't even do 12v12 anymore so if GW was looking for this to be competitive - they screwed up BIG TIME.
At least with other builds you have a chance to have a good battle. With this build - the only build I've seen that can even come close is a mesmer.
So....what is Anet looking for - all Touch Rangers & Mesmers??? NO THX
So I say....NERF IT!!
You did it to the AoE's for elementalists and to the Minion Master - how about doing something about this one!!
Lets put some competition back into the game!!
[merged] Touch Rangers
Stileto Switchblade
MMSDome
eh they dont bother me to much, i know its a pain when they kill you it frustrates me to but its a well thought up build that turned into a big cookie cutter. It isnt overused as much as IWAY is in tombs so i dont see it as much of a problem, its fine by me...
Silent Kitty
Touchers are strong against unsuspecting newbies, but as soon as they play balanced, they suddenly completely drop out of the picture. I have never seen a team, with at least two touchers, win in the top 10 battles. They go up fast in gvg, but drop even faster 
Dark Dragon
There was a post floating around
basically saying that touch rangers were not overpowered as soon as someone kites, fights long range etc i would link but i don't know how to yet =P
i still find W/* around more than anthing else becasuse they are the most damagin class out there with survivablilty
i say buff the eles
i play ele so this is a bias comment. lol. They should be the most damaging single spell (short time spam) attackers but that will probably bring spiking problems with high dmg spells, so i can see why they don't
going way off topic so i'll stop writing now.
basically saying that touch rangers were not overpowered as soon as someone kites, fights long range etc i would link but i don't know how to yet =P
i still find W/* around more than anthing else becasuse they are the most damagin class out there with survivablilty
i say buff the eles
i play ele so this is a bias comment. lol. They should be the most damaging single spell (short time spam) attackers but that will probably bring spiking problems with high dmg spells, so i can see why they don'tgoing way off topic so i'll stop writing now.
Mystery Tyke
hi
im personally a pve player, but i know how pvp works, and, surely, if u cant beat touchers, join em!
or alternatively, they are easily countered. i played my mes in RA and used diversion to ruin a toucher's chances . Blackout would also work, as would migrane (correct me if im wrong)
im personally a pve player, but i know how pvp works, and, surely, if u cant beat touchers, join em!
or alternatively, they are easily countered. i played my mes in RA and used diversion to ruin a toucher's chances
. Blackout would also work, as would migrane (correct me if im wrong)
Caleb
Only 45 posts on this topic.
Why don't you use a counter to the build rather than cry for a nerf?
My monk cannot defeat a domination mesmer one vs one, so NERF ALL DOMINATION SKILLS!?"!?!?!one 11one!
Nerfing things is not the answer, learning to counter builds and roll over them is.
Why don't you use a counter to the build rather than cry for a nerf?
My monk cannot defeat a domination mesmer one vs one, so NERF ALL DOMINATION SKILLS!?"!?!?!one 11one!
Nerfing things is not the answer, learning to counter builds and roll over them is.
Hidden in the Mist
Wow, never tried a Degen Mesmer/necro or Crippling shot ranger?
Lets Get to Healing
No, migraine wouldn't ^^
This is another complainer thread about o no they r overpowered.
Like an IWAY one was born every week. Learn to counter them.
This is another complainer thread about o no they r overpowered.
Like an IWAY one was born every week. Learn to counter them.
Robin_Anadri
I have an entire thread devoted to hunting touch rangers as a Mesmer over in the mesmer forum.
Anyway, this thread will soon be closed or merged, so I'm not gonna bother.
Anyway, this thread will soon be closed or merged, so I'm not gonna bother.
Fluffyx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery Tyke
hi
im personally a pve player, but i know how pvp works, and, surely, if u cant beat touchers, join em!
or alternatively, they are easily countered. i played my mes in RA and used diversion to ruin a toucher's chances . Blackout would also work, as would migrane (correct me if im wrong)
Yes, those both work. But a touch ranger needs energy and is constatnly using it more than most classes IMO from playing touch rangers and other classes. Even if they do bring OoB its still possible to beat them just by keeping their energy low. People say SS works but I dont think so since they can heal more then the damage it will do. And yes unless its a team of touch rangers that can coordinate a balanced team with a decent monk will usually plow them. Then again its not to hard to call but I've had groups that just split up totally. I really dont think touch is that big of a deal its not like its invincible or even close to it.
im personally a pve player, but i know how pvp works, and, surely, if u cant beat touchers, join em!
or alternatively, they are easily countered. i played my mes in RA and used diversion to ruin a toucher's chances
. Blackout would also work, as would migrane (correct me if im wrong)
Yes, those both work. But a touch ranger needs energy and is constatnly using it more than most classes IMO from playing touch rangers and other classes. Even if they do bring OoB its still possible to beat them just by keeping their energy low. People say SS works but I dont think so since they can heal more then the damage it will do. And yes unless its a team of touch rangers that can coordinate a balanced team with a decent monk will usually plow them. Then again its not to hard to call but I've had groups that just split up totally. I really dont think touch is that big of a deal its not like its invincible or even close to it.
The truth itself
The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.
saphir
i usually play as an ss necro w/ spinal shivers, and verata's gaze. if a bunch of touch rangers start showing up to bother you, i bring along backfire.
nothing is funnier than watching a touch ranger kill himself on backfire + spiteful spirit. not sure if reckless haste affects their touch speed, i doubt it.
while the ranger is killing busy themself standing next to the wars w/ SS on them, i go steal a bunch of minions lol
ooh, and if you've got extra energy, it's even funnier watching the ranger stand their bewildered after you throw shivers on them and interrupt their every skill
nothing is funnier than watching a touch ranger kill himself on backfire + spiteful spirit. not sure if reckless haste affects their touch speed, i doubt it.
while the ranger is killing busy themself standing next to the wars w/ SS on them, i go steal a bunch of minions lol
ooh, and if you've got extra energy, it's even funnier watching the ranger stand their bewildered after you throw shivers on them and interrupt their every skill
Thom
Ensign said it best, a good player will have no problem with a touch ranger since any number of basic tactics can easily disable the build. The problem is that 90% of players in random arena and AB have trouble witht the build. While the build is balanced if the game is played well, it reduces enjoyment for new players therefore the skill needs to be nerfed.
Draining energy seems to be a bad way to attack the build, since with expertise as high as it should be will signficantly reduce all energy costs. While you could beat the build this way, it seems to be the "hard way". The easy way would be a snare and some degen or a spike.
Draining energy seems to be a bad way to attack the build, since with expertise as high as it should be will signficantly reduce all energy costs. While you could beat the build this way, it seems to be the "hard way". The easy way would be a snare and some degen or a spike.
Juicey Shake
Quote:
Originally Posted by The truth itself
The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.
errr, no, what needs to be fixed is skillless players that can't kite. a touch ranger is a mediocre build and is fine as is, if people would oh, bring a snare? = dead touch ranger. there are more than enough counters for it.
inscribed
Quote:
Originally Posted by The truth itself
The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.
Oh please, if saying that makes you feel better about losing to them, more power to you. If they are so 'skillless', then make one and own everything. You won't.
Lets Get to Healing
Listen, many people arent pissed becuz they are overpowered, they r pissed cuz they are overused. theres a difference
Jetdoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri
I have an entire thread devoted to hunting touch rangers as a Mesmer over in the mesmer forum.
I posted some thoughts in that thread - I love the idea of a Mantra of Recovery/Diversion mesmer disabling the touch ranger, and then applying snare/degeneration pressure (which Thom describes above).
It would be funny to see a mesmer carry a few snares to disable a group of touch rangers, instead of taking them out one by one.
Anyone used a water elementalist or a trapper to effectively combat touch rangers?
It would be funny to see a mesmer carry a few snares to disable a group of touch rangers, instead of taking them out one by one.
Anyone used a water elementalist or a trapper to effectively combat touch rangers?
Thom
They are overused because it is a simple build which is fairly effective at taking out npcs and newbies. While the build isn't totally skilless it is hardly a high skill build. If your attributes are set right you basically can spam your attacks, dump your conditions and rotate stances. Comparable to a shock ax who isn't expected to spike.
Power doesn't really come from player skill, it comes from unavoidable life stealing and excellent energy management. The natural synergies of the build is really the source of the builds positives.
Power doesn't really come from player skill, it comes from unavoidable life stealing and excellent energy management. The natural synergies of the build is really the source of the builds positives.
Yanman.be
You know what really is overpowered? A toucher in the hands of an expert. ( Like me ).
But those experts don't play TR's anymore, because people will think they're bad players.
The ones you see know, are the same copycats that used 55's and whammo earlier in the game. ( and some FOTM's too )
But those experts don't play TR's anymore, because people will think they're bad players.
The ones you see know, are the same copycats that used 55's and whammo earlier in the game. ( and some FOTM's too )
makosi
Not another Toucher thread >_<
I maintain my opinion that it is a design flaw and shouldn't happen. "Expertise reduces the energy cost of Attack Skills, Traps and Preparations". Some might argue that these touch skills are not attack skills because the familiar attack skills are described as 'attacks' (e.g. Punishing shot = Bow attack). Others argue that it is in fact an attack when you bite their neck and steal 65hp from them. That's a fair comment but why doesn't Dodge end when you use these supposed 'attacks'? "Dodge ends if you attack" Also, why don't stances block these 'attacks'? Is it agreeable then that in Guild Wars concepts that these are not attack skills?
Expertise reduces: Attack skills, Traps, Preparations. Touch skills aren't mentioned.
There is definitely a discrepancy between the theory and practice of these skill and Expertise that ArenaNet aren't addressing this (or maybe they will address them in the same update as the storage extension or purchasable character slots on 32nd Julembery 2019)
Yes, they aren't overpowered but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue.
I maintain my opinion that it is a design flaw and shouldn't happen. "Expertise reduces the energy cost of Attack Skills, Traps and Preparations". Some might argue that these touch skills are not attack skills because the familiar attack skills are described as 'attacks' (e.g. Punishing shot = Bow attack). Others argue that it is in fact an attack when you bite their neck and steal 65hp from them. That's a fair comment but why doesn't Dodge end when you use these supposed 'attacks'? "Dodge ends if you attack" Also, why don't stances block these 'attacks'? Is it agreeable then that in Guild Wars concepts that these are not attack skills?
Expertise reduces: Attack skills, Traps, Preparations. Touch skills aren't mentioned.
There is definitely a discrepancy between the theory and practice of these skill and Expertise that ArenaNet aren't addressing this (or maybe they will address them in the same update as the storage extension or purchasable character slots on 32nd Julembery 2019)
Yes, they aren't overpowered but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue.
bulletsmile
uuumhuuu, well we could say that they could change vampiric touch to a spell and keep vampiric bite as a skill, because those two skills are just the same and that's kinda lame.........
anyway, many ways to kill touchers, i like to play water ele and freeze them, you can cripple them etc.....
anyway, many ways to kill touchers, i like to play water ele and freeze them, you can cripple them etc.....
Dart
Number one for me as a noob PvP player is if I get pwned or annoyed in say AB battles where it seems people try out new stuff...first thing i want to do is learn their build and see how to shut them down mua ha ha ahaaaa.
Comon if it hacks u off then it is a fun challenge to out do them, I made a few adjustments and we were pwning their little butts and that is when the fun really began
We have alot of skills to counter them... my fav is to transfer it right back on them roflol...
Comon if it hacks u off then it is a fun challenge to out do them, I made a few adjustments and we were pwning their little butts and that is when the fun really began
We have alot of skills to counter them... my fav is to transfer it right back on them roflol...
Sakashi
I suppose when you think about it, it must be quite a pain for new players and probably a little discouraging for them.
If there is going to be any change made i have some suggestions -
Don't nerf expertise.
Don't nerf the damage/recharge of vamp touch/bite.
Make them SPELLS instead of SKILLS.
If there is going to be any change made i have some suggestions -
Don't nerf expertise.
Don't nerf the damage/recharge of vamp touch/bite.
Make them SPELLS instead of SKILLS.
Ecksor
don't worry, this month will start to taste sour pretty soon. If you didn'y get that I was referring to this as just a flavor of the month. Anyways, I think that the touch ranger people will get bored of the build soon enough.
makosi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakashi
Make them SPELLS instead of SKILLS.
QFT: They are arcane/magical and should be categorized as spells.
Ghull Ka
Quote:
Originally Posted by makosi
QFT: They are arcane/magical and should be categorized as spells.
If they wanted them to be spells, they would already be spells. They're skills for a reason, and the reason is: that's how they were designed.
If you're tired of touch rangers, simply slaughter them. Kite, cripple them, degen them, and enjoy the sound of another dying toucher.
If you stand in one spot and swing your sword at them like you do everything else, you will die. Then you'll proclaim that they need to be nerfed. Please.
Knockdown warrior + smiter = dead toucher.
Crippleshot/apply poison ranger who kites = dead toucher.
Diversion mesmer + anything = dead toucher.
Wammo who doesn't kite = dead wammo.
If you're tired of touch rangers, simply slaughter them. Kite, cripple them, degen them, and enjoy the sound of another dying toucher.
If you stand in one spot and swing your sword at them like you do everything else, you will die. Then you'll proclaim that they need to be nerfed. Please.
Knockdown warrior + smiter = dead toucher.
Crippleshot/apply poison ranger who kites = dead toucher.
Diversion mesmer + anything = dead toucher.
Wammo who doesn't kite = dead wammo.
makosi
~_~
We know what do do with them. Think of GW as a whole, is it really in the ethos of Guild Wars to earn victory through spamming?
We know what do do with them. Think of GW as a whole, is it really in the ethos of Guild Wars to earn victory through spamming?
Hollerith
I actually like your 'inconsistency with the Expertice description' better. Never noticed that because I never played R.
But re: Touch Rangers, they're just annoying because they either need to be killed right away or babysat - else they make things incredibly difficult for the team (either takes a lot of healing power, or shuts someone down because they have to spend time kiting).
But re: Touch Rangers, they're just annoying because they either need to be killed right away or babysat - else they make things incredibly difficult for the team (either takes a lot of healing power, or shuts someone down because they have to spend time kiting).
Saider maul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakashi
If there is going to be any change made i have some suggestions -
Don't nerf expertise.
Don't nerf the damage/recharge of vamp touch/bite.
Make them SPELLS instead of SKILLS. go one step further. sense one is a bite ( physical action ) and one is a touch ( physical action ) leave them as such, but make the effect of evade/block work against them sense they are as discribed " physical actions "...
This well uneffect other classes as well as necro's and more accuratly impliment the " Skill ".
This gives a counter to nearly every class to combat a touchie...
Is the touch ranger overpowered?.... eh more over abused is the word.
when countering 1 or 2 ok,.... fighting a 12 v 12 where the enemy has 9,10 touchies and 2 MM/s yeah thats rediculous. you basically have to go in built to counter them to stand up against them.
This in turn leaves you open to other team builds and even worse the next wave of cookie cutter exploitation.
Ghull Ka
Quote:
Originally Posted by makosi
~_~
We know what do do with them. Think of GW as a whole, is it really in the ethos of Guild Wars to earn victory through spamming? Well, if you know what to do with them, why are they still earning victory?
A rhetorical debate, such as "is it within the ethos of Guild Wars to win with a button-mashing build" is one that I'm not even going to get into. Sometimes button-mashers win. Sometimes "skilled" players win.
Just because your build involves less wild button mashing than someone else's build doesn't make your build require more "skill". It surely doesn't mean that the "unskilled" build needs to be nerfed, and doesn't validate your "more skilled" build. The game doesn't recognize amount of buttons mashed in order to secure victory. The game doesn't recognize finesse or style or flair. It recognizes wins and losses.
So again, if we all know how to kill touchers, why is anyone still complaining about them? Go slaughter them (with as much "skill" as you feel necessary to use) and secure the win.
We know what do do with them. Think of GW as a whole, is it really in the ethos of Guild Wars to earn victory through spamming? Well, if you know what to do with them, why are they still earning victory?
A rhetorical debate, such as "is it within the ethos of Guild Wars to win with a button-mashing build" is one that I'm not even going to get into. Sometimes button-mashers win. Sometimes "skilled" players win.
Just because your build involves less wild button mashing than someone else's build doesn't make your build require more "skill". It surely doesn't mean that the "unskilled" build needs to be nerfed, and doesn't validate your "more skilled" build. The game doesn't recognize amount of buttons mashed in order to secure victory. The game doesn't recognize finesse or style or flair. It recognizes wins and losses.
So again, if we all know how to kill touchers, why is anyone still complaining about them? Go slaughter them (with as much "skill" as you feel necessary to use) and secure the win.
The truth itself
Quote:
Originally Posted by inscribed
Oh please, if saying that makes you feel better about losing to them, more power to you. If they are so 'skillless', then make one and own everything. You won't.
Why is it that you personal attack me?
Did i bother you? NO, then dont attack me.
"Go for the ball, not the man."
I don't see a reason to keep a skillless build that works in the game.
If something is skillless and works = broken skills.
And bla bla bla, i know they are easily countered, but that wasn't my point.
Why is it that you personal attack me?
Did i bother you? NO, then dont attack me.
"Go for the ball, not the man."
I don't see a reason to keep a skillless build that works in the game.
If something is skillless and works = broken skills.
And bla bla bla, i know they are easily countered, but that wasn't my point.
J snukka
i never found them a problem. Mesmers can handle them abit, my KD assassin killed a touch ranger or two. I used shock, falling spiders then horn ox. it messes them up, shadow step and stuff.
oh my, did i forget to mention to us jagged then fox fang then twisting, or throw in another horn ox. come on they are nothing. Stop complaining and think of counters.
oh my, did i forget to mention to us jagged then fox fang then twisting, or throw in another horn ox. come on they are nothing. Stop complaining and think of counters.
lightblade
make vampiric touch/bite 5 second recharge!
audra
Touchers aren't even hard to kill... in fact they're some of the easiest targets you'll meet in 12v12... unless you're a c-space wammo maybe... but don't stop using them
Fungus Amongus
I have dominated many inexperienced players with a touch ranger. I have also been grossly dominated by experienced players while playing a touch ranger.
Touch rangers are far from overpowered and far from needing a nerf. They can only quickly take out people who don't yet know how to react. Once I learned my many weaknesses as a touch ranger, I knew how to easily counter one. It's not even necessary to plan your build to defend against a toucher.
When I see a touch ranger on an opposing team, I either just kite him, fire off attacks, let a mesmer take him out, or just punch him in the nose. It's quite easy.
Create a toucher, own a few unsuspecting others with him, get owned buy the rest. Learn the weaknesses first hand and reconsider your opinions of a touch ranger.
Touch rangers are far from overpowered and far from needing a nerf. They can only quickly take out people who don't yet know how to react. Once I learned my many weaknesses as a touch ranger, I knew how to easily counter one. It's not even necessary to plan your build to defend against a toucher.
When I see a touch ranger on an opposing team, I either just kite him, fire off attacks, let a mesmer take him out, or just punch him in the nose. It's quite easy.
Create a toucher, own a few unsuspecting others with him, get owned buy the rest. Learn the weaknesses first hand and reconsider your opinions of a touch ranger.
RuPee
i dont really think touch rangers should go as far as being nerfed since there are plenty of counters against them already. some good ones have already been mentioned. snaring/degen/edeny touchies and thy're as good as dead.
WLlama
Alright, so as with most builds I find over time, I played toucher a while back. (What can I say, I like toying with the strengths and weakness of different builds myself...main reason I want more char slots for the last two professions.) That being said, I got tired of being flamed at some point and stopped...same reason I don't like playing my monk...people always have criticism for certain classes/builds.
For those that say it is completely skillless, that depends significantly on the player behind the ranger. Sure you can mash two buttons and then throw in a third when E is necessary. But you can also add a lot more skill with the other 4 slots (Thus, I'm obviously not suggest everyone use the same cookie cutter build.).
Even then, for those of you who have some of the "higher-skill" builds out there...sure, it may not compete as a skill challenge but it allows some new people a chance to try out PvP without falling as quickly to other players. That being said, against a number of builds (many of which have been mentioned but they can be soloed as well) they crumble. Every build has at least one counter...so counter it and move on to other interesting builds that exhibit ingenious use of skills and attribs. Don't nerf one just becaue it happens to work in some cases.
For those that say it is completely skillless, that depends significantly on the player behind the ranger. Sure you can mash two buttons and then throw in a third when E is necessary. But you can also add a lot more skill with the other 4 slots (Thus, I'm obviously not suggest everyone use the same cookie cutter build.
).Even then, for those of you who have some of the "higher-skill" builds out there...sure, it may not compete as a skill challenge but it allows some new people a chance to try out PvP without falling as quickly to other players. That being said, against a number of builds (many of which have been mentioned but they can be soloed as well) they crumble. Every build has at least one counter...so counter it and move on to other interesting builds that exhibit ingenious use of skills and attribs. Don't nerf one just becaue it happens to work in some cases.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by saphir
i usually play as an ss necro w/ spinal shivers, and verata's gaze. if a bunch of touch rangers start showing up to bother you, i bring along backfire.
nothing is funnier than watching a touch ranger kill himself on backfire + spiteful spirit. not sure if reckless haste affects their touch speed, i doubt it.
while the ranger is killing busy themself standing next to the wars w/ SS on them, i go steal a bunch of minions lol
ooh, and if you've got extra energy, it's even funnier watching the ranger stand their bewildered after you throw shivers on them and interrupt their every skill Nothing is funnier than a cocky Mesmer casting Backfire on a touch ranger, thinking that it'll slow them down at all. Seriously, I laugh really hard when I see it happen.
Oh and guess what? Touch Rangers steal more life than they lose from Spiteful Spirit, so the damage is effectively negated.
Please read skill descriptions before entering battle. Also, please test a build before bragging about it on public forums. By reading this, it appears that you have never actually used these tactics on a touch ranger, but are instead claiming to have done so for popularity or recognition.
gg Necro. My Ranger looks forward to seeing you in battle.
nothing is funnier than watching a touch ranger kill himself on backfire + spiteful spirit. not sure if reckless haste affects their touch speed, i doubt it.
while the ranger is killing busy themself standing next to the wars w/ SS on them, i go steal a bunch of minions lol
ooh, and if you've got extra energy, it's even funnier watching the ranger stand their bewildered after you throw shivers on them and interrupt their every skill Nothing is funnier than a cocky Mesmer casting Backfire on a touch ranger, thinking that it'll slow them down at all. Seriously, I laugh really hard when I see it happen.
Oh and guess what? Touch Rangers steal more life than they lose from Spiteful Spirit, so the damage is effectively negated.Please read skill descriptions before entering battle. Also, please test a build before bragging about it on public forums. By reading this, it appears that you have never actually used these tactics on a touch ranger, but are instead claiming to have done so for popularity or recognition.
gg Necro. My Ranger looks forward to seeing you in battle.
Fungus Amongus
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLlama
Every build has at least one counter...so counter it and move on to other interesting builds that exhibit ingenious use of skills and attribs. Don't nerf one just becaue it happens to work in some cases.
Amen.
Thom
People don't get it. Simply having a counter (or many counters) is not a sufficient argument for something to avoid a nerf. The build has made arena play rather stale, therefore a nerf is in order. You really shouldn't give noobs playing touch rangers a huge advantage over noobs playing most every other build. The next rebalance should intentionally move peoples interest away from touch rangers.