[merged] Touch Rangers

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

all you need is 1 skill on your skill bar.........VIRULENCE!!!!!!!!!

Evls Pwn

Evls Pwn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Brotherhood of Sacred Soldiers

N/Me

A touchy wouldn't be able to spam skills fast enough to be able to keep up with damage that he's taking if the recharge was longer.

@gasmaskman-sry bout that, i was thinking about vamp bite for some reason O.o I got mixed up.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggers
I whacked on SS + Empathy + Isidious Parasite with my Necro (first time I really put some sort of build with it, never use him) - It seemed to cause the Ranger trouble. I don't know if all those skills stack or whatever, I was in the heat of battle :P

But yeh, those 3 skills pretty much shutdown Warriors as they'll kite coz of the hex's. It's not as effective Vs Touchers coz they heal more, but when I kept the hex's up he seemed to kite so he must of not liked it.

Please excuse me if those skills don't work fully, I was testing. Having used touch ranger many times. I have to say SS "alone" does absolutely nothing to stop me from doing what I do.

Btw being knocked down does nothing since I usually get right back up and heal myself anyways UNLESS I'm being spiked by everyone.

Wild Blow on my poor ass? So I lost 1 stance. Oh well I got more. Wild Blow on me again? Got another one or my first stance has already recharged. Time management is what I call it.

Ice snares? Lots of Touch Ranger hate? I'll keep you occupied long enough for the rest of my team to do what they gotta do while 1+ people are focusing their time on me.

Kiting? The longer you kite the less of a problem you are to me and anyone else since you won't be doing very much but dodging me. Should you decide to cast a spell, attack etc... I'll swarm in for some nice touching.

OK we can sit here and spit out a million variables to counter everything I just said and then we'll have another million counter-variables counter those variables and so on... Basically there are ways to counter these counters depending on the situation.

Btw critique this all you want I won't be reading anymore of this wasted thread anyways. It's your time not mine after this post.

Peace

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

I literally sigh when I see one on my own team.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
all you need is 1 skill on your skill bar.........VIRULENCE!!!!!!!!! Does nothing! Only if someone uses crippling shot or some other condition attack will Virulence do anything.

I do believe Touch Rangers do carry Plauge Touch, so you will be on the receiving end of those conditions.

I wonder if Tainted Flesh will affect a Toucher (anyone striking in melee - does it work with Vampiric Touch/Bite?) If so, then no fear of plague touch, as you are immune to disease

Just throw Soul Barbs, Wither, Malaise, Life Siphon, Rigor Mortis, and Parasitic Bond. Adding Crippling (ranger shoots from behind the grassy knoll) so the TR can't get to you before you unleash your hexes or just cast Ethereal Burden.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Cripshot.Savageshot.Punishingshot and Pindown may slow them down.You could put 1 or 2 traps in as well.

Kit Engel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Lords of the Sacred Chao

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Cripshot.Savageshot.Punishingshot and Pindown may slow them down.You could put 1 or 2 traps in as well. Cripshot and traps are the only reliable ways to slow them down, since they usually have quite a few stances available that allows them to avoid attacks. Cripshot rangers generally have no trouble with touchers...

Oblivion Odyssey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

King Of Slaying [Leader]

W/Mo

Hate them hate them hate them... a two skill spam build (with other skills for back-up, yes...), that is uncounterable except by builds built specifically TO defeat touch rangers. And, worst of all, they take NO SKILL to play. NERF THEM!

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion Odyssey
....that is uncounterable except by builds built specifically TO defeat touch rangers..... See it's posts like this that have made these types of threads irritating to read.

If you've read any of the million or so pages of this thread, you'll realize that alot of the counters listed are things already COMMONLY used in PvP. They are builds that work well against ALOT of different situations. You DO NOT have to build to take down a touch ranger....

Seriously... Saying that a CripShot ranger is 'built to counter touch rangers' is like saying my Physics book was meant to be a fly swatter. While it easily serves that purpose... it's hardly the measure of its creation.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion Odyssey
And, worst of all, they take NO SKILL to play. NERF THEM! Maybe we should go through EVERY SINGLE class and NERF EVERY SINGLE COMBINATION OF SKILLS that require ZERO skill. I can name "at least" a dozen or more per class. IWAY, 55, 605, Touch Rangers, etc... Or better yet, delete every single one of your characters and play Mesmer since it's the only class that probably requires the "most" skill to use. Heck there are days I play my Monk and I only need to spam 2-3 skills to keep people alive. Maybe we should nerf the entire Healing line for Monks too?

Mera Regila

Mera Regila

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

In The Deep

R/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit Engel
Cripshot and traps are the only reliable ways to slow them down, since they usually have quite a few stances available that allows them to avoid attacks. Cripshot rangers generally have no trouble with touchers... There are a few more, like Water Magic Snares, and Water Trident to keep them knocked down, that should slow them. Touch rangers=not needing a nerf. I can kill them with almost every one of my builds, my fc air ele literally pwned them, too bad it was nerfed *grumbles about anet*. My hammer warrior kills them, obviously my cripshot works, and a series of other builds im too tired to mention.

lyeoh

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

Energy denial and high degen works.
I believe a decent elementalist can kill a touch ranger (and other classes with the same build).
Mesmers have so many options which are useful against other classes, same goes for bow rangers.

The real advantage of touch rangers is they work better than most builds when there is no teamwork and no monk.

So I'd prefer it if touch rangers weren't nerfed, and players just improved their skills and teamwork abilities.

A good mo/me is pretty hard to kill, are we going to nerf that build then?

pedrostrik

pedrostrik

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2006

OT

R/

come on man if you have fear about stupid touch rangers look yourself for the awfull 55hp builds around there. that its really a mess for the whole game , it take out the spirit of the game, making A.I.'s the worst in this kind of games. come on, touch rangers are far away to be overpowered, and when you play in xp pvp, you dont see then. (i.e. they are nice against the bad A.I. from the game but people in xp pvp give no chance to then)

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

If ANet would just change the necro skills that touch rangers rely on into spells. That would solve the problem.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick Me
Does nothing! Only if someone uses crippling shot or some other condition attack will Virulence do anything.

I do believe Touch Rangers do carry Plauge Touch, so you will be on the receiving end of those conditions.

I wonder if Tainted Flesh will affect a Toucher (anyone striking in melee - does it work with Vampiric Touch/Bite?) If so, then no fear of plague touch, as you are immune to disease

Just throw Soul Barbs, Wither, Malaise, Life Siphon, Rigor Mortis, and Parasitic Bond. Adding Crippling (ranger shoots from behind the grassy knoll) so the TR can't get to you before you unleash your hexes or just cast Ethereal Burden. you dont like Virulence? ok try diversion!!! now thats pure evil.

diversion: next time target uses a skill that skill is disables for ~40-50 seconds more

Minus Sign

Minus Sign

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme!
Having used touch ranger many times. I have to say SS "alone" does absolutely nothing to stop me from doing what I do.
ert; wrong. SS alone prevents R/N ganks (the offensive power of the touch build is not by itself; it exsists with a group of 4 touchers spamming lifestealing "unavoidable/non-reducable damage on a single target) as it can be reapplied to all of your team easily. By itself, it cuts healing down to around half, allowing other members to easily cream you. Of course, you shouldn't expect one skill to coutner ANY build without doing something else.

Quote: Btw being knocked down does nothing since I usually get right back up and heal myself anyways UNLESS I'm being spiked by everyone. How about just me spiking you? Wild Blow on my Shock war ate R/Ns for breakfast in AB. Frenzy charges Adreniline, Shock then Evicerate+Exectuioners+Disrupting Chop/Distracting Blow when you turn and try to heal off me. KD is a 3 second shutdown for skill spammers; a highly effective window if you follow up on it.

Quote: Wild Blow on my poor ass? So I lost 1 stance. Oh well I got more. Wild Blow on me again? Got another one or my first stance has already recharged. Time management is what I call it. And I call it misreading skill descriptions before playing a build more than once. A touch ranger--a halfway decent one at least--has 3 stances on his bar. Only one of them is Whirling; the stance that blocks mellee attacks. Bringing Lightning Reflexes is a wasted slot as your stances will then spend all their time recharging. A touches power comes also from his mobility; if you can't chase targets faster than they can run, they can kite kill you. Besides, no ranger is that cavalear about losing a stance with a 60 second recycle...or LRs 45.

An expierenced touch ranger would know this, of course, and not rely on another non-existent stance for backup against mellee Wild Blow wars because they can out DPS you and interupt. A war with enough intellegence to bring Wild Blow to deal with you has also brought an interupt more often than not.

Quote: Ice snares? Lots of Touch Ranger hate? I'll keep you occupied long enough for the rest of my team to do what they gotta do while 1+ people are focusing their time on me. At -66% moving speed? I think not. Even with both your run buffs you're still crawling around with no way to remove the hex until I decide to deal with you. And why should I do anything else to you until I've helped my team finish off yours?

As for touch hate skills? No; I don't waste my time on anti-build builds. I build counter builds, though, and touch rangers are easily countered with snare, interupt, degen, Edenial and disable skills.

Quote: Umm.... Correct me if I'm wrong but Wild Blow recharges in 4-6 seconds, unlike your stances which recharge in about 60 for whirling def and 45 for Lightning Reflexes if you're using it. Wild Blow will put both of them down and you won't be able to evade.

Quote:
Kiting? The longer you kite the less of a problem you are to me and anyone else since you won't be doing very much but dodging me. Should you decide to cast a spell, attack etc... I'll swarm in for some nice touching. And now we know you've not been PvPing much as ANY type of character. PvEers stand around like a lump on a log; PvPers are constantly in motion to body block, kite from AOE or position for coordinated attacks. My monk is always kiting; my monk is always effective. Coincidence? I think not. A moving target for a touch ranger opens them up to castor abuse (ranged spells). Your greatest role is killing NPCs (ie fast capping), not chasing things you CAN'T cripple. Leave that for Dual smite teams.

Quote:
OK we can sit here and spit out a million variables to counter everything I just said and then we'll have another million counter-variables counter those variables and so on... Basically there are ways to counter these counters depending on the situation. At least you've learned that much...I hope...

Quote:
Btw critique this all you want I won't be reading anymore of this wasted thread anyways. It's your time not mine after this post. About the only intellegent thing you did when responding to this thread. Next time, don't troll. There is enough ranger hate here without you coming in with half brained notions about how Touch works.

Take a tip from Byteme folks; bring everything he says DOESN'T work if you want to deal with touch effectivly.

@ Baggers=FYI since touch rangers do not "attack", Empathy does not work. If you want a nice Hex build to deal with Touch (or any single target) I suggest looking into Soul Barbs and spam hexes simular to the one Pick Me hints at.

Bloodied Blade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

Why not just increase recharge of Vamp Touch and vamp bite by 3-5 seconds each? That lets necros and everyone not centered around 100% vamp touch use the skills in melee if they need them for added dps and lowers the skills' spammability.

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

I don't think it's fair to completely make the build useless... Even it it was overpowered. Were it to need a nerf (which it doesn't) then it would only need slight tweaks so that the concept wasn't completely destroyed.

Bloodied Blade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

True, I was just offering a solution via game fix. I've found just running Cripshot to be easier since TRs are extremely easy to kill when you can have them almost dead before their second vamp touch (and those you can time b/c they spam them). In retrospect, TRs really aren't very good monk pressure against a kiting boon/prot b/c ~65 damage is just a RoF or a Guardian, and then they really don't have any other damage. A lot of them won't even use their stances, making them a lot easier to kill.

Edit: Look into Debilitating Shot if you can manage to get it into a build sometime. It may not seem like much but it really hurts their ability to spam skills. It also makes great caster e-denial pressure.

Ren Wuying

Ren Wuying

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Finland

Weapons Of Death [Fin]

R/

What is a good R/Me touch ranger build in PvE?

Yakumo

Yakumo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

Hearts Of Fury [HoF]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Wuying
What is a good R/Me touch ranger build in PvE? There isn't one I know of. Touchers are R/N. Necro second for the touch skills (Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite) to do life stealing damage/healing.

Ren Wuying

Ren Wuying

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Finland

Weapons Of Death [Fin]

R/

I'm new to this whole touch ranger concept, somebody was explaining me earlier ingame that it's R/Me and not R/N.

I tried finding info on the forums, but couldn't find exact build for such setup.

Yakumo

Yakumo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

Hearts Of Fury [HoF]

R/

Mesmers do not have that many touch skills, and those that they do have are not spammable.

Rangers, themselves have only one touch skill, again not spammable.

The concept of the Touch Ranger is simple, clever but simple, revolving around the spamming of two skills to damage the enemy and heal oneself.

The two skills are life stealing from the Blood line... ignores armor, and cannot be evaded or blocked. Normally expensive to run (and especially to spam), but with high Expertise to reduce the energy cost of skills (non-spells), the two quick recharging skills become very spammable.

I think it's a very clever build that has pretty much everything you need... damage, self heal, evasion, and energy management. Of course, like any other build, it has its strengths, and it has its weaknesses.

Ren Wuying

Ren Wuying

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Finland

Weapons Of Death [Fin]

R/

Thanks for the help, i understand how it works now.
What would be a good setup, including attribute points?

Expertise 12 +
... ?

Dodge
Whirling defence
Vampiric Touch
Vampiric Bite
... ?

Yakumo

Yakumo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

Hearts Of Fury [HoF]

R/

There's pretty much only one setup for attribute points.

This thread has a lot of information (including a build and weapon sets on the first page): http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3056267

For PvE, I usually take Troll Unguent and Rez Sig for the last two skills, but they can be whatever you like.

Have fun...

Conan Soulreaver

Conan Soulreaver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

brotherhood of the wolf

N/Me

i hate touch rangers and would never lower myself to use them in pvp. i have more respect for my skill base.

but...........

ive discovered that they rock in solo farming. all but a couple a bosses fall to my cowardly ranger build

Mera Regila

Mera Regila

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

In The Deep

R/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan Soulreaver
i hate touch rangers and would never lower myself to use them in pvp. i have more respect for my skill base.

but...........

ive discovered that they rock in solo farming. all but a couple a bosses fall to my cowardly ranger build Yeah, especailly for non-55able bosses like Cultist Rajazan. Rajazan's Fervor sells for 20k I think.

Mera Regila

Mera Regila

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

In The Deep

R/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme!
Having used touch ranger many times. I have to say SS "alone" does absolutely nothing to stop me from doing what I do.
True, my experiances tell me the same thing. Unless of course they use Backfire on you so you can't use your OoB, SS doesn't work for very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bytheme! Btw being knocked down does nothing since I usually get right back up and heal myself anyways UNLESS I'm being spiked by everyone.
Being knocked down by a warrior with a hammer and Irresistable Blow will mean that you get knocked down for 3 seconds. Yuo have a 3 second time frame for touching, then are knocked down again, this is plenty of time for the warrior to kill you. This is only if you're in a stance. Other knockdowns like shock are usually followed by somebody kiting out of teh way and using a speed stance. Theirs will usually last more or less as long as yours, and they have a 2-3 second head start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bytheme! Wild Blow on my poor ass? So I lost 1 stance. Oh well I got more. Wild Blow on me again? Got another one or my first stance has already recharged. Time management is what I call it.
Originally Posted by bytheme!
Ice snares? Lots of Touch Ranger hate? I'll keep you occupied long enough for the rest of my team to do what they gotta do while 1+ people are focusing their time on me. Umm.... Ice snares will keep you occupied for quite a while, Tenai's Crystals gives you about 6 seconds of being slow, and it recharges quickly. They'll usually just hit you once and then go onto another enemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bytheme!
Kiting? The longer you kite the less of a problem you are to me and anyone else since you won't be doing very much but dodging me. Should you decide to cast a spell, attack etc... I'll swarm in for some nice touching. Kiting will mitigate the damage of ANY close ranged unit. If your opponent casts a spell, they'll just start kiting again, you'll get in about 2-3 touches. Using a stance, dmg will still be mitigated.

I know you aren't reading anymore, I just wanted to disprove this post so people don't get the wrong idea about touchies.

Bloodied Blade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pintpointfive
Obviously, he could run arcane larceny/thievery.

Your lack of knowledge is disturbing.

...Stupid touchers >.> I may have missed something, but the last 99 times that I used arcane thievery it was incapable of stealing skills...just spells. Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite are skills.

Robin_Anadri

Robin_Anadri

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta, GA

Girl Power [GP]

Me/Mo

If there is a Vampiric Kiss skill copying the vamp touch/vamp bite effect in Nightfall, I am going to laugh, and laugh, and laugh.

Mera Regila

Mera Regila

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

In The Deep

R/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri
If there is a Vampiric Kiss skill copying the vamp touch/vamp bite effect in Nightfall, I am going to laugh, and laugh, and laugh. LOL that'd be halarious. All it'll do to touchies is make them available for people with only 2 campaigns, it'd be way too energy intensive for the current touchie build.

Robin_Anadri

Robin_Anadri

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta, GA

Girl Power [GP]

Me/Mo

I had so much fun killing touch rangers with my 'sin during the AB weekend.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

i guess ANET has read this thread!

Quote:
"Cant touch this!" paragon shout

Without a solid counter to touch-type skills, we decided to add a new Paragon shout called "Can't Touch This," which causes touch skills used on friends within earshot to completely fail. This will allow players to counter skills like Blackout, Shock, or Vampiric Touch more effectively.
so now we can all stop whining about touch rangers right?

Mera Regila

Mera Regila

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

In The Deep

R/A

Well, I have a feeling that there aren't going to be as many Paragons as there will be Dervishes, since Dervishes look coolerand therefore attract the 80% of the gw population that only cares about what looks good. PLUS that wouldn't exactly be a staple in a paragon ra or ab build.

Kuja

Kuja

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

MA

Kame

Mo/W

The fact the skill exists will lower amount of touchers.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

wait till the dervish mania will calm down after ~1 mounth after the release and people will start considering capabilities and not "fasion" only....

just like it happened with assassins and Rits... first there was a swamp of assassins cuz they were "cool", then ppl realised that the rit is much better

so give it some time

Pebbles

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

E/Mo

Sins can't counter touchers... They just can't trust me I've tried. Sins have to be close to a toucher to cripple or do damage.

Although sins can spike better than a toucher, the toucher can counter any combination of 2-3 skills with just one of his own.

If you get close to one they will use "dodge" To try and stop you spiking You can kick this out with wild blow... Not a problem. You try and disrupt them with your sin and you get bitten. You knock them over You get bitten, You cripple them and cover them head to toe in extreme damage and conditions to stop a monk from healing them.

and they then plauge touch you because of your proximity and bite you to heal dispite there deep wound. So I doubt strongly that there is a sin build that can take a toucher

Elems are also kinda feeble at countering touchers the only thing I've seen work are Icy prison + Water trident whitch requires alot of resources to be effective and is frankly usless against most other things. Like Capping points.

They definatly need a rebalancing I dunno about a nerfing tho (As an elem and a Sin I know first hand how horribly unfair an OTT nerf is.)

It wouldn't have to be much just somthing simple like make stolen health class as actual healing. Then they have to endure the pain everyone else feels when under deep wound and a good effective counter to them becomes Scourge healing.

Shuuda

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

Touchers are easy for a sin to kill, I can do it with my A/E shock build, Using way of the fox to bypass stances and ending AoD b4 he gets up and uses plague touch. Very easy.