I've played a touch ranger before, but it was a build that was way too easily killed, and i was flamed for it more times than i could count. I LOVED it when they tried to counter me with a Spiteful Spirit or an even funnier Backfire. I have a Me/E air ele that pwns them, amoung many of my other builds i use in pvp. Seriously, at a range, this is the whole battle: Lightning Hammer, Lightning Orb, Gale, Lightning Orb=1 pwned touch ranger. Just work together with other members of your team to concentrate attacks on the toucher, it'll be dead quick.
For those saying most Touch Rangers are SKILLED of all things, i dunno where your delusions come from. The Touch Ranger Build requires absolutely no skill at all , absolutely mindless spamming. Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite, get a condition, Plague Touch, war or ranger shows up, Throw Dirt, energy low, OoB, teammate dead, res signet. WAY MORE COMPLICATED than the average build, especially given that you repeat this cycle OVER AND OVER for the whole game.
Most Touchers have no clue what they're doing, when a warrior attacks them they will use OoB just the same as they would when there was nothing next to them. Then they try to run like fools, bulls strike owns them just like it owns all kiters when combined with a nice sprint, Bull's Charge works as well. Crippling has a chance of working, but it might not, they will find someoen near them to transfer it to.
They own newbs, but how is that fair to the newbs? It isn't.
[merged] Touch Rangers
Mera Regila
Alleji
Balancing the game based on the most disorganized form of PvP would be... well... extremely stupid, to put it mildly.
Zinger314
Why is it so hard and so unreasonable to make the Touch Skills into Spells? 
Juicey Shake
because the problem is not the people running the build it's the people fighting against it. it's not hard to beat and the skills are fine as is...
and besides Star burst, what other touch skills are classified as spells, anyhow?..
and besides Star burst, what other touch skills are classified as spells, anyhow?..
yspark901
Touches are great against 55monks, I tell you that.. 
.
I don't play touch, don't mind them that much, since i do guild battles,
and not Alliance Battles.. though they're powerful in one-on-one, especially against warriors.
.I don't play touch, don't mind them that much, since i do guild battles,
and not Alliance Battles.. though they're powerful in one-on-one, especially against warriors.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Why is it so hard and so unreasonable to make the Touch Skills into Spells?
Well, doing this would make 55 monks able to solo the desert again. Using Spellbreaker, they could negate the life stealing spells, which would make them able to solo the entire desert, considering the only thing that could stop them was life stealing. No idea why anet would be against this.
To everyone else: A nerf is NOT the answer. There have been enough unreasonable nerfs ingame without another senseless one to touch rangers, who are actually easy to kill.
Well, doing this would make 55 monks able to solo the desert again. Using Spellbreaker, they could negate the life stealing spells, which would make them able to solo the entire desert, considering the only thing that could stop them was life stealing. No idea why anet would be against this.To everyone else: A nerf is NOT the answer. There have been enough unreasonable nerfs ingame without another senseless one to touch rangers, who are actually easy to kill.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleji
Balancing the game based on the most disorganized form of PvP would be... well... extremely stupid, to put it mildly.
If you're referring to the random arenas, I couldn't agree with you more. Absolute luck of the draw, not often do you get a monk, which is an awesume defense against a toucher. Touch Rangers just cant compete with a Boon Prot Monk's healing abilities, just one of these monks can deal with the damage output of two touch rangers.
Getting a touch ranger on the other team is equally rare, i get them about once every 8 rounds or so. It's not that common, i once went through a 12 game winning streak and didn't get one toucher on the other team, save one in the first round.
Getting a touch ranger on the other team is equally rare, i get them about once every 8 rounds or so. It's not that common, i once went through a 12 game winning streak and didn't get one toucher on the other team, save one in the first round.
Lets Get to Healing
All I've seen is counters for teh toucher. They r just a regular build. If were are nerfing plain builds, lets also drop
Boon Prot
MM
Trappers
Etc ETc
Boon Prot
MM
Trappers
Etc ETc
Lets Get to Healing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera Regila
For those saying Touch Rangers are SKILLED of all things, i dunno where your delusions come from. Touch Ranger is completely without skill, absolutely mindless spamming. Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite, get a condition, Plague Touch, war or ranger shows up, Throw Dirt, energy low, OoB, teammate dead, res signet. WAY MORE COMPLICATED than the average build, especially given that you repeat this cycle OVER AND OVER for the whole game.
I could bet im 100 times better than you AND I like to play touch. I just like to taste the FoTM, you know. Quit with the damn steroetypes.
Edge Martinez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera Regila
For those saying Touch Rangers are SKILLED of all things, i dunno where your delusions come from. Touch Ranger is completely without skill, absolutely mindless spamming.
I'm guessing we both agree that touchers don't need to be nerfed, but assuming all touchers have no skill is a dangerous statement. First off, plague touch isn't in my build. Secondly, touchers work well in ABs because teams are so random, while all touch teams are on the same page. Thirdly, people just don't equip themselves with necessary skills to survive anything, much less a touch group. If you are a warrior and you don't have a monk with condition removal, you absolutely need to bring it. You may feel special because you have wild blow and can stop our stances, but any toucher worth his weight in an AB will use the stances for the NPCs at unguarded control points. Stances are secondary to Throw Dirt against warriors and assassins. We'll also use them if we see a ranger with a bow in the area. Diversion to me is a big joke. You just train your eyes to watch for purple up in the corner, and even if they get 1 of the touch skills, you have got enough other stuff to stay alive. Lastly... I see quite a few people with enchantments up full time. Thanks for the health boost! I hate enchantments in ABs because they're like a bright neon sign to necros, touchers, monks and especially mesmers, that you can really put the hurting on this dude. ABs aren't organized PvP where you have 7 people to cover you. I'd recommend using enchantments as necessary.
All in all, it's not the touch build that is overpowered. It's people not doing basic things that they should be doing anyway that is causing all of this. Furthermore, people just aren't playing ABs like they should. Too many people come prepared to fight. Remember that a toucher gets owned everywhere else but ABs. Why? They're best suited to going after control points, not people. And that's what touchers do... run the whole time from point to point. If more people did that, there'd be less major confrontations and more strategy involved, and games would be alot more fun. But hey, if you want to fight, and you don't bring needed skills or understand your enemy, at least stop whining about getting owned.
All in all, it's not the touch build that is overpowered. It's people not doing basic things that they should be doing anyway that is causing all of this. Furthermore, people just aren't playing ABs like they should. Too many people come prepared to fight. Remember that a toucher gets owned everywhere else but ABs. Why? They're best suited to going after control points, not people. And that's what touchers do... run the whole time from point to point. If more people did that, there'd be less major confrontations and more strategy involved, and games would be alot more fun. But hey, if you want to fight, and you don't bring needed skills or understand your enemy, at least stop whining about getting owned.
Nevin
I think the fact that they're easily beat is irrelivant. The OP is saying... "Anet nerfed things such as AOE and the MM. Both of which were popular in PvE and still are. So why not the Toucher?"
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge Martinez
I'm guessing we both agree that touchers don't need to be nerfed, but assuming all touchers have no skill is a dangerous statement. First off, plague touch isn't in my build. Secondly, touchers work well in ABs because teams are so random, while all touch teams are on the same page. Thirdly, people just don't equip themselves with necessary skills to survive anything, much less a touch group. If you are a warrior and you don't have a monk with condition removal, you absolutely need to bring it. You may feel special because you have wild blow and can stop our stances, but any toucher worth his weight in an AB will use the stances for the NPCs at unguarded control points. Stances are secondary to Throw Dirt against warriors and assassins. We'll also use them if we see a ranger with a bow in the area. Diversion to me is a big joke. You just train your eyes to watch for purple up in the corner, and even if they get 1 of the touch skills, you have got enough other stuff to stay alive. Lastly... I see quite a few people with enchantments up full time. Thanks for the health boost! I hate enchantments in ABs because they're like a bright neon sign to necros, touchers, monks and especially mesmers, that you can really put the hurting on this dude. ABs aren't organized PvP where you have 7 people to cover you. I'd recommend using enchantments as necessary.
All in all, it's not the touch build that is overpowered. It's people not doing basic things that they should be doing anyway that is causing all of this. Furthermore, people just aren't playing ABs like they should. Too many people come prepared to fight. Remember that a toucher gets owned everywhere else but ABs. Why? They're best suited to going after control points, not people. And that's what touchers do... run the whole time from point to point. If more people did that, there'd be less major confrontations and more strategy involved, and games would be alot more fun. But hey, if you want to fight, and you don't bring needed skills or understand your enemy, at least stop whining about getting owned. I was mistaken in that post, I meant to say that THE VAST MAJORITY of touch rangers are skillless noobs. No offense to you, if you even took any to begin with. Like I said before, they dont use OoB correctly most of the time, nothing dumber than using OoB with a warrior or assassin on you. I once even saw a toucher use OoB when he had Backfire on him. Though it's dumb to use Backfire on a Toucher in the first place, i still cracked up when i saw him commit suicide right in front of me.
I should have worded things differently, I meant Touch Rangers REQUIRE no skill to use their build. Ill edit the post.
All in all, it's not the touch build that is overpowered. It's people not doing basic things that they should be doing anyway that is causing all of this. Furthermore, people just aren't playing ABs like they should. Too many people come prepared to fight. Remember that a toucher gets owned everywhere else but ABs. Why? They're best suited to going after control points, not people. And that's what touchers do... run the whole time from point to point. If more people did that, there'd be less major confrontations and more strategy involved, and games would be alot more fun. But hey, if you want to fight, and you don't bring needed skills or understand your enemy, at least stop whining about getting owned. I was mistaken in that post, I meant to say that THE VAST MAJORITY of touch rangers are skillless noobs. No offense to you, if you even took any to begin with. Like I said before, they dont use OoB correctly most of the time, nothing dumber than using OoB with a warrior or assassin on you. I once even saw a toucher use OoB when he had Backfire on him. Though it's dumb to use Backfire on a Toucher in the first place, i still cracked up when i saw him commit suicide right in front of me.
I should have worded things differently, I meant Touch Rangers REQUIRE no skill to use their build. Ill edit the post.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicey Shake
because the problem is not the people running the build it's the people fighting against it. it's not hard to beat and the skills are fine as is...
and besides Star burst, what other touch skills are classified as spells, anyhow?.. There's healing touch, but im not sure if there's anything else.
and besides Star burst, what other touch skills are classified as spells, anyhow?.. There's healing touch, but im not sure if there's anything else.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lets Get to Healing
I could bet im 100 times better than you AND I like to play touch. I just like to taste the FoTM, you know. Quit with the damn steroetypes.
Bet as much as you like. I'm not going to argue with foolish assumptions, you can assume you're better all you like. I couldn't care less. That's the last one of your posts I think I'm going to answer.
pigdestroyer
they are the last chance of a pve scrub.. give those pve scrub a chance against us pvpers..
/not signed
/not signed
Yanman.be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicey Shake
because the problem is not the people running the build it's the people fighting against it. it's not hard to beat and the skills are fine as is...
and besides Star burst, what other touch skills are classified as spells, anyhow?..
Healing Touch, Restore Life, Spirit To Flesh, Healing Burst. Thus only Rt and Monk skills...
and besides Star burst, what other touch skills are classified as spells, anyhow?..
Healing Touch, Restore Life, Spirit To Flesh, Healing Burst. Thus only Rt and Monk skills...
rheasaffier
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakaria
We are not forced to bind towards certain build that some ppl see it cool to run it.All of you were talking about single touch ranger...let's discuss about countering half dozen of them in AB then come back to talk with me if it's easy and fun to counter them or not. i have a ranger but am really not very good
can u pls teach me professor?
petra
Ensui
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera Regila
Well, doing this would make 55 monks able to solo the desert again. Using Spellbreaker, they could negate the life stealing spells, which would make them able to solo the entire desert, considering the only thing that could stop them was life stealing. No idea why anet would be against this.
Farmers don't need to use Spell Breaker, simply because they don't need to farm the desert anymore. Check out ID1 of Droknar's Forge when you get the chance. Not to mention if Arena Net had any issues with this in truth, they would simply create some anti farming monster skill that would instablow up your face regardless of what you're using.
If you have another argument against making these abilities Spells instead of Skills, I would love to hear it, since the one you made is invalid and has not deterred farming one iota.
Of course there are deterrents against touch rangers. No matter what build I run, I try to run Wild Blow if it contains physical damage, or some kind of snare. If I'm running anything but a monk, I'm usually fine. But if I'm monking? Yeah, GG there. If anything, it makes me not want to monk in Comp Arenas, Team Arenas, or Alliance Battles, but I suppose people don't want monks on their team anymore anyway.
If you have another argument against making these abilities Spells instead of Skills, I would love to hear it, since the one you made is invalid and has not deterred farming one iota.
Of course there are deterrents against touch rangers. No matter what build I run, I try to run Wild Blow if it contains physical damage, or some kind of snare. If I'm running anything but a monk, I'm usually fine. But if I'm monking? Yeah, GG there. If anything, it makes me not want to monk in Comp Arenas, Team Arenas, or Alliance Battles, but I suppose people don't want monks on their team anymore anyway.
RTSFirebat
There is nothing wrong with Touch Rangers, they don't need nerfing. My tocuhie has been beaten down in PvP plenty of times. Long as the player knows what they are doing.
Learn, adapt and defend.
Learn, adapt and defend.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensui
Farmers don't need to use Spell Breaker, simply because they don't need to farm the desert anymore. Check out ID1 of Droknar's Forge when you get the chance. Not to mention if Arena Net had any issues with this in truth, they would simply create some anti farming monster skill that would instablow up your face regardless of what you're using.
If you have another argument against making these abilities Spells instead of Skills, I would love to hear it, since the one you made is invalid and has not deterred farming one iota.
Of course there are deterrents against touch rangers. No matter what build I run, I try to run Wild Blow if it contains physical damage, or some kind of snare. If I'm running anything but a monk, I'm usually fine. But if I'm monking? Yeah, GG there. If anything, it makes me not want to monk in Comp Arenas, Team Arenas, or Alliance Battles, but I suppose people don't want monks on their team anymore anyway. I wasn't even arguing? I didn't say i LIKED that they did that. Personally I'd love to see touch newbies pwned by the fact that their so called "uber pwnage build" is now all but useless. Once again, not talking about all of them, but the vast majority of touches. How could a monk fall easily to a toucher? The average Boon Prot should be able to keep up with the damage output of 2 touch rangers alone.
They did this in one place, negated almost all effective farming groups. Tomb of the Primeval Kings, they negated 55, SS, Trappers, and pretty much any kind of warrior with one monster skill. Fingers of Chaos, blinds warriors, removes enchants from monks, removes hexes when hitting necros, cant miss rangers, and you get the negative effects of your primary and secondary professions. This was a stroke of genius from anet for negating a lot of farms that could normally have been able to do Tombs.
Back on topic. I'm not even trying to argue with you, i'd love to see the day when touches became spells, and the touchers (the noob ones at least) all found their build completely useless. She asked why it would be such a complication weather or not touches were skills or spells, I voiced my opinion on why, nothing more.
If you have another argument against making these abilities Spells instead of Skills, I would love to hear it, since the one you made is invalid and has not deterred farming one iota.
Of course there are deterrents against touch rangers. No matter what build I run, I try to run Wild Blow if it contains physical damage, or some kind of snare. If I'm running anything but a monk, I'm usually fine. But if I'm monking? Yeah, GG there. If anything, it makes me not want to monk in Comp Arenas, Team Arenas, or Alliance Battles, but I suppose people don't want monks on their team anymore anyway. I wasn't even arguing? I didn't say i LIKED that they did that. Personally I'd love to see touch newbies pwned by the fact that their so called "uber pwnage build" is now all but useless. Once again, not talking about all of them, but the vast majority of touches. How could a monk fall easily to a toucher? The average Boon Prot should be able to keep up with the damage output of 2 touch rangers alone.
They did this in one place, negated almost all effective farming groups. Tomb of the Primeval Kings, they negated 55, SS, Trappers, and pretty much any kind of warrior with one monster skill. Fingers of Chaos, blinds warriors, removes enchants from monks, removes hexes when hitting necros, cant miss rangers, and you get the negative effects of your primary and secondary professions. This was a stroke of genius from anet for negating a lot of farms that could normally have been able to do Tombs.
Back on topic. I'm not even trying to argue with you, i'd love to see the day when touches became spells, and the touchers (the noob ones at least) all found their build completely useless. She asked why it would be such a complication weather or not touches were skills or spells, I voiced my opinion on why, nothing more.
Winx.ZN
After reading 5 pages of this (the 10th thread on Touch Rangers I think) I like to see the overwhelming majority of opinion compared to what it was on thread one.
Most people dont think it deserves a nerf anymore, we thought, oh wait... thats how we counter it. I think the people that keep repeating this thread over and over are vaguely new to the Toucher phenomenon and are just letting off steam like a bunch of us did in Thread #1.
The logic of the skills annoys me (touching, biting, gazing while blind) but the build itself doesnt.
If I see a team of 4 coming towards us in AB and I spot : (average team)
R/N
Mo/Me
Me/E
N/Me or Mo
Generally the last we worry about is the R/N. If there are 3-4 and for some reason we dont have a way to slow 2 of them, then we retreat. That spiker is gonna really hurt, killing the monk so we can kill the spiker is going to make it much easier, if that MM has minions, id rather leave them masterless before I worry about R/N. Slowdown spells are something most teams I go with take anyway. Theres nothing better than stopping kiting. Good thing about that is it has the added benefit of canceling out any build that requires you to get up close. Not just touchers.
Those of you who think they need a nerf go take a stroll in the pvp section. Youll find a wide variety of builds that will successfully stop many people with the added benefit of stopping R/Ns too. I see less touchers every AB I do now a days. I don't party with Touchers because I can think of many more useful builds Id rather take along. Guildie wanted to make one, I said, fine make one, just wont party with you while you run it. What that did was he never plays it :P Any decent run squad will mow over most pug squads anyway. An organized 4 Toucher build was gonna kill you just as fast in a pug as an organized (add build name here) build would.
Most people dont think it deserves a nerf anymore, we thought, oh wait... thats how we counter it. I think the people that keep repeating this thread over and over are vaguely new to the Toucher phenomenon and are just letting off steam like a bunch of us did in Thread #1.
The logic of the skills annoys me (touching, biting, gazing while blind) but the build itself doesnt.
If I see a team of 4 coming towards us in AB and I spot : (average team)
R/N
Mo/Me
Me/E
N/Me or Mo
Generally the last we worry about is the R/N. If there are 3-4 and for some reason we dont have a way to slow 2 of them, then we retreat. That spiker is gonna really hurt, killing the monk so we can kill the spiker is going to make it much easier, if that MM has minions, id rather leave them masterless before I worry about R/N. Slowdown spells are something most teams I go with take anyway. Theres nothing better than stopping kiting. Good thing about that is it has the added benefit of canceling out any build that requires you to get up close. Not just touchers.
Those of you who think they need a nerf go take a stroll in the pvp section. Youll find a wide variety of builds that will successfully stop many people with the added benefit of stopping R/Ns too. I see less touchers every AB I do now a days. I don't party with Touchers because I can think of many more useful builds Id rather take along. Guildie wanted to make one, I said, fine make one, just wont party with you while you run it. What that did was he never plays it :P Any decent run squad will mow over most pug squads anyway. An organized 4 Toucher build was gonna kill you just as fast in a pug as an organized (add build name here) build would.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
There is nothing wrong with Touch Rangers, they don't need nerfing. My tocuhie has been beaten down in PvP plenty of times. Long as the player knows what they are doing.
Learn, adapt and defend. I know it's easy for exp players to kill touch ranger, what about newbs tho. Newbs that use touch have an unfair chance over newbs that use every other build. I think im quoting this from someone, someone definately said this.
Bottom line: I would LOVE to see the look on the greedy noob faces of most of the touch ranger population when their build is all but worthless if their touches turn to spells. Touch Rangers don't NEED nerfing, but I'd love to see one.
So many touch rangers running around randoms like they're Rank 10 Illustrious Heroes that know pretty much everythign about PvP when they really know next to nothing except the pathetic worthless build they looked up on the internet. I've had touches on my team as a boon prot, said i sucked because i couldn't ward off two shock warriors who had me constantly knocked down when touch didn't lift a finger to help. This kind of arrogance from complete noobs, makes me so angry.
Learn, adapt and defend. I know it's easy for exp players to kill touch ranger, what about newbs tho. Newbs that use touch have an unfair chance over newbs that use every other build. I think im quoting this from someone, someone definately said this.
Bottom line: I would LOVE to see the look on the greedy noob faces of most of the touch ranger population when their build is all but worthless if their touches turn to spells. Touch Rangers don't NEED nerfing, but I'd love to see one.
So many touch rangers running around randoms like they're Rank 10 Illustrious Heroes that know pretty much everythign about PvP when they really know next to nothing except the pathetic worthless build they looked up on the internet. I've had touches on my team as a boon prot, said i sucked because i couldn't ward off two shock warriors who had me constantly knocked down when touch didn't lift a finger to help. This kind of arrogance from complete noobs, makes me so angry.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winx.ZN
After reading 5 pages of this (the 10th thread on Touch Rangers I think) I like to see the overwhelming majority of opinion compared to what it was on thread one.
Most people dont think it deserves a nerf anymore, we thought, oh wait... thats how we counter it. I think the people that keep repeating this thread over and over are vaguely new to the Toucher phenomenon and are just letting off steam like a bunch of us did in Thread #1.
The logic of the skills annoys me (touching, biting, gazing while blind) but the build itself doesnt.
If I see a team of 4 coming towards us in AB and I spot : (average team)
R/N
Mo/Me
Me/E
N/Me or Mo
Generally the last we worry about is the R/N. If there are 3-4 and for some reason we dont have a way to slow 2 of them, then we retreat. That spiker is gonna really hurt, killing the monk so we can kill the spiker is going to make it much easier, if that MM has minions, id rather leave them masterless before I worry about R/N. Slowdown spells are something most teams I go with take anyway. Theres nothing better than stopping kiting. Good thing about that is it has the added benefit of canceling out any build that requires you to get up close. Not just touchers.
Those of you who think they need a nerf go take a stroll in the pvp section. Youll find a wide variety of builds that will successfully stop many people with the added benefit of stopping R/Ns too. I see less touchers every AB I do now a days. I don't party with Touchers because I can think of many more useful builds Id rather take along. Guildie wanted to make one, I said, fine make one, just wont party with you while you run it. What that did was he never plays it :P Any decent run squad will mow over most pug squads anyway. An organized 4 Toucher build was gonna kill you just as fast in a pug as an organized (add build name here) build would. Hard to argue with those solid facts. Impeccable logic used on your part. I agree with everything there. One thing from me you must understand however.
It's not the touchers' builds I heartily dislike, it's the people that play them. The noobs running around RA like they're full-fledged experts of the game, it sickens me.
Most people dont think it deserves a nerf anymore, we thought, oh wait... thats how we counter it. I think the people that keep repeating this thread over and over are vaguely new to the Toucher phenomenon and are just letting off steam like a bunch of us did in Thread #1.
The logic of the skills annoys me (touching, biting, gazing while blind) but the build itself doesnt.
If I see a team of 4 coming towards us in AB and I spot : (average team)
R/N
Mo/Me
Me/E
N/Me or Mo
Generally the last we worry about is the R/N. If there are 3-4 and for some reason we dont have a way to slow 2 of them, then we retreat. That spiker is gonna really hurt, killing the monk so we can kill the spiker is going to make it much easier, if that MM has minions, id rather leave them masterless before I worry about R/N. Slowdown spells are something most teams I go with take anyway. Theres nothing better than stopping kiting. Good thing about that is it has the added benefit of canceling out any build that requires you to get up close. Not just touchers.
Those of you who think they need a nerf go take a stroll in the pvp section. Youll find a wide variety of builds that will successfully stop many people with the added benefit of stopping R/Ns too. I see less touchers every AB I do now a days. I don't party with Touchers because I can think of many more useful builds Id rather take along. Guildie wanted to make one, I said, fine make one, just wont party with you while you run it. What that did was he never plays it :P Any decent run squad will mow over most pug squads anyway. An organized 4 Toucher build was gonna kill you just as fast in a pug as an organized (add build name here) build would. Hard to argue with those solid facts. Impeccable logic used on your part. I agree with everything there. One thing from me you must understand however.
It's not the touchers' builds I heartily dislike, it's the people that play them. The noobs running around RA like they're full-fledged experts of the game, it sickens me.
pkodyssey
Hmmmm. Nothing is more fun than the stalemate of a touch ranger and a plague touch warrior.
My (Bow)ranger makes touch rangers... disappear!
My (Bow)ranger makes touch rangers... disappear!
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera Regila
That's why builds exist, to be used! By anyone, exp, newbie or whatever.
Games have newbs who beat other newbs who are beaten by exp players. It's the way it's always been, even before the birth of the Touch Ranger.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pkodyssey
Hmmmm. Nothing is more fun than the stalemate of a touch ranger and a plague touch warrior.
My (Bow)ranger makes touch rangers... disappear! Cripshot Condition Ranger does wonders against Touchies.
Hengis
I note from the original post that the OP states he is a W/Mo.
I think that part of the nerf crying is because W/Mo's are pretty used to being able to stand up fairly well against a wide variety of builds. However, a W/Mo who tries the usual run in/tank/hit tactics on a Touch Ranger will be a dead W/Mo in about 15 seconds. This I am sure is a bit of a culture shock especially to newer players to discover that there is a relatively simple build that will kill them over and over again. Also, almost every other class is used to coming up against a variety of builds that will kill them easily. You cannot make a build that can counter every possible variation you will come up against, so you just get used to dying when you meet that nemesis build that you know is going to kill you fast. I also suspect that newer W/Mos think that if they are not up the front tanking and hitting, then the target will not be killed. For Touch Rangers the non-melee classes are a actually the ones that do the killing best. My only real complaint about Touch Rangers is not really a complaint against Touch Rangers at all. What really annoys me is when my N/Me casts imagined burden and a whole bunch of degen hexes on a Toucher and leaves them alone to die, only for someone to run up and start hitting them only to have the Toucher spam their vampiric skills and get back all the health that has been degened from them. Lastly, I know that this post is making some generalisations - I honestly do know that there are plenty of Warriors who know how to play against Touchers. It's the ones who don't know how to that are the ones calling for the nerf bat. JodoKast
It is true that there are plenty of ways to avoid touch rangers. Kiting, snares and degen for the kill are examples.
However there is one big point that hasn't been mentionned enough on this thread : we are talking about Alliance Battle. In Alliance Battle, the goal of the game is to capture and hold points, not to wipe out the ennemy team by kiting around them and degen them to death. The NPCs guarding the control points do NOT kite away from touch rangers. As such, Touch Rangers are a very self sufficient and effective build to take over points in AB, another reason why you see a lot of them. Shendaar
I think both Vamp Touch skills should be changed to Spells and their energy cost should be reduced to 10. This would prevent Expertise from working, make both skills more counterable and also make them cost effective on a necro primary.
RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by JodoKast
It is true that there are plenty of ways to avoid touch rangers. Kiting, snares and degen for the kill are examples.
However there is one big point that hasn't been mentionned enough on this thread : we are talking about Alliance Battle. In Alliance Battle, the goal of the game is to capture and hold points, not to wipe out the ennemy team by kiting around them and degen them to death. The NPCs guarding the control points do NOT kite away from touch rangers. As such, Touch Rangers are a very self sufficient and effective build to take over points in AB, another reason why you see a lot of them. Yep, you've summed it up perfectly here. From my point-of-view, Touch Rangers don't need nerfing, the Alliance Battle NPCs need buffering. I will say that at the moment a single Touch Ranger can solo a whole bunch of NPCs in Alliance Battles, but the again so can most builds. The NPCs in Alliance Battles are weak and they are the ones who are in need of a buff. The only ones which are strong are the Elementalists who using Lighting Spike.
Caleb
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Originally Posted by zakaria |
We are not forced to bind towards certain build that some ppl see it cool to run it.All of you were talking about single touch ranger...let's discuss about countering half dozen of them in AB then come back to talk with me if it's easy and fun to counter them or not. Well I absolutely hate running into a group of half a dozen monks in AB, so can we please nerf those pesky "divine favor" and "healing" attribute lines to make it easier for me to counter in ABs?  And I often face several warriors at once in ABs, so please swing your nerf bat at hammers/swords/axes too! Maybe make all the weapon attributes max out at level 7, so they do less damage. I refuse to counter builds other people use, so I demand the devs nerf every build that is not covered in my current 8 skills to counter?!?! /sarcasm
Skuld
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Originally Posted by Shendaar
I think both Vamp Touch skills should be changed to Spells and their energy cost should be reduced to 10. This would prevent Expertise from working, make both skills more counterable and also make them cost effective on a necro primary.
Maybe you missed the many other times this has been mentioned - they used to be spells and aint gonna get put back.
Silent Kitty
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Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff
I refuse to counter builds other people use, so I demand the devs nerf every build that is not covered in my current 8 skills to counter?!?!
Every time when I want to heal someone in my party, those pesky mesmer and ranger interrupts/counters it. Please Anet, nerf them. They are mean!
Lets Get to Healing
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Originally Posted by Mera Regila
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Originally Posted by Mera Regila
For those saying most Touch Rangers are SKILLED of all things, i dunno where your delusions come from. The Touch Ranger Build requires absolutely no skill at all , absolutely mindless spamming. Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite, get a condition, Plague Touch, war or ranger shows up, Throw Dirt, energy low, OoB, teammate dead, res signet. WAY MORE COMPLICATED than the average build, especially given that you repeat this cycle OVER AND OVER for the whole game.
roboky
I see alot of people say cripple the touchers, but that's kind of hard for a ranger when they have lots of other targets to choose from other than you, plague tough, and whirling defenses (and the other assorted dodge skills), and they recover hp very everytime they hit you. Also what's worse, if you are able to cripple one, people are forming all toucher parties now in Alliance battles.
Caleb
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
Every time when I want to heal someone in my party, those pesky mesmer and ranger interrupts/counters it. Please Anet, nerf them. They are mean!
Hehe Kitty, that would have been a good addition to my list!Please nerf ritualists too, I don't like all those spirits creeping me out.
Bale_Shadowscar
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Psychic_Distraction
Theus
Quote:
Originally Posted by roboky
I see alot of people say cripple the touchers, but that's kind of hard for a ranger when they have lots of other targets to choose from other than you, plague tough, and whirling defenses (and the other assorted dodge skills), and they recover hp very everytime they hit you. Also what's worse, if you are able to cripple one, people are forming all toucher parties now in Alliance battles.
Crippling Shot cant be blocked or evaded.Your post fails.
LoKi Foxfire
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Originally Posted by Theus
Crippling Shot cant be blocked or evaded.Your post fails.
Too bad whatever effectiveness this may have in a group whenever you have another PUG warrior come up and try to melee a touch ranger only to get plague touched. :]
TwinRaven
I was going to try to ignore this thread, especially since it seems in the wrong section to me...shouldn't it be in "BUILDS" ? Anyway, since I have added my opinion in some 4-5 other threads reguarding the touch ranger and they keep popping up [it's called the search button] and when the great button fails...READ a couple threads...THEY ARE NOT NOT NOT hard to find....Here's my last reply to the Nerf the Ranger boobery:
yet another NERF the touchie thread...*sighs*...please use search, read and/or contribute to other threads...oh, great moderators hear my plea "please merge these threads" as they are popping up like mushrooms in a dungheap.Quote: I play a touchie and have never heard SO many complaints about it until the Vampiric Touch cloned skill "Vampiric Bite"...even with this new skill there is the same balance as before...more damage occurs quicker-yes, but the energy management is trickier bescause the cost is greater than Touch of Agony (the skill most commonly used in previous builds) Using the cloned skill...you have to watch the energy, especially with a good mesmer around. ...I've been playing the build for months and over a year if you include beta characters...there is nothing wrong with it...it can and IS often countered...I have met defeat at the hands of many character classes...mesmers, warriors, necromancers, elementalists have ALL defeated me with multiple conditions, kiting, interrups and skill disabling...please think beyond your current mode of playing, use some imagination and develope some simple tactics before crying "NERF"..or, hey, here's a thought...try some TEAMWORK!!! One-on-one is where you are weak with a touchie...gang up on them and they go down faster...As a touchie I hate a knock-down build and drain build in combination...ugh...watermagic is SO underused, but slow me down so I can't get to you....cripple me, knock me down and run away from me while someone drains my health or throws conditions at me... I can't beleive so many people fussing about this...think of it as a game of "Tag"...the trick is not to get touched...How do you accomplish this? RUN AWAY! Kiting, kiting, kiting...try it for Dwayna's sake...sheesh SO simple...SO many people have figured this out already...leave my build alone. EDIT: Please look here for suggested counters for touch rangers...took me 2 minutes to find it: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/R/N_Touch_Ranger |
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I've been playing a touchie since I deleted my first ranger Twin Raven...a nice little R/E that seemed fun at the time. My "new" ranger/nec is a wee bit over nine months old and I've been snatching life away from folks since I started it. Over time I've rearranged skills until I found just the right combo. With the addition of Vampiric Bite, it's true I can snatch away an extra 15 health every 2 seconds, but it costs me an extra 3 energy...a fair trade...no more powerful than before. Problem is...this little build of mine (not taking credit, I play my own variation though) has come under fire. I've defended it and offered strategies to beat it for weeks...here again, though is yet another thread crying nerf: the main whining coming from wariors because they stand there swinging away at air never ONCE thinking about using the survival instincts God gave an ant :RUN AWAY!!!! SERIOUSLY: read through Gladiator and use the search...you'll find all kinds of info and strategy...QUIT whining "nerf it" You folks who can't think around a build piss me off...first my necro gets the nerf-bat, now you wanna do the same to my ranger...the only classes I play with any joy. Can't get into a group to save my life for months when the game started...I paid my freakin' dues and now someone wants to nerf it because lo and behold, what I have been doing for 3/4 of the time I've played (not including beta) is too hard for some brainless tank to counter...try putting some defensive strategy into play, this isn't whack-a-mole! I respect the opinions of players who are willing to debate and offer insight, but dropping in " yeah make em spells...only solution" is obviously the same dipstick, follow the leader, lemming-like behavior that makes people drive SUVs as commuter cars because they want to BELONG to something...the world has enough yes-men, so please add something unique and thoughtful to the thread or STHU! JR- You said it...don't suck and you can beat a touchie. Nine months of playing one and I can tell you what kills em off...energy denial, diversion (not not NOT NOT NOOOOOOTTTTTT...blackout...god I HATE when people don't read the thread and chime in with what has already been mentioned as worthless)....multiple conditions and heavy degen on top of diversion and e-denial will make them drop...stay out of range....cripple and run after a knock-down...kiting help (even dumbass warriors should know when to kite...NOT whine nerf when they are to damned stupid to pull their ass outta the fire)...multiple knockdowns are hard to deal with as well.<please note: dumbass warriors are a classification of warrior...not all warriors...there IS a disticntion> EVERY build has a counter build, even touchies. I've had my ass dropped unexpectedly and expectedly by every profession...sometimes in combinations ( a mesmer and warrior together = ouchie). A warrior can't get mad if there is a build that can kill them...a tanker should not be the ONLY build that can withstand a beating. Touch rangers are unique, but limited and run out of energy after one victim or so (even with good gear)...after one member of your party drops, gang up on the touchie...almost always gets me at the end of my mana supply and I have to run (ESCAPE is my prefered...not storm chaser or dodge...obviously mentioned by people who don't play a touchie or play a lame one IMO). Facing more than one? CALL TARGETS and bring res sigs...drop them often enough and the team with the most res wins!!! Pardon the rant...just play the freakin' game and LEARN to deal with the builds as they come along...remember when you were scared of air-spikers?*mocking trembles* Consider who you attack in the game...the soft targets right? As it happens, warriors are soft targets for the touchie...learn to deal with it...tankers are NOT always at the top of the foodchain...they did away with that term...it's called the food web...it's a balance. I can think of all the times an air-spiker, interrupt ranger or mesmer killed off my necro...I didn't bitch or cry nerf once...I bit my lip, typed "gg" and rethought my build...for all you "nerf" whiners...I suggest you do the same. There are a couple more and a pretty good build for Touch Ranger posted here by me, found without the use of the search button and already debated to death in the BUILDS section...can we all get over it already and quit the whining? *flabbergasted kuffuffalation*
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Navaros
Instead of nerfing Touch Rangers which don't need to be nerfed and should not be nerfed, I think Anet should nerf bad players instead. Keep all the bad players stuck in the Zaishen Missions until they learn enough about the game to not call for illegitmate nerfings against anything they are not smart enough to try countering.
I know that this was said a bit tounge in cheek, but it actually brings up a nice solution...
Modify the Zaishen Missions to include a group of Touch Rangers. Just like people learned the weaknesses of the IWAY, ViM Trapper, IW and Obsidian Flame builds by constantly practicing against them in this nice setting, the Touch Ranger could be substantially weakened by including them in this repeatable setting as well. |
