The touchie is really just a build that thrives on warriors who aren't packing knockdowns (or average->low skilled assasins).
Not to say that a touchie will always beat these 2 groups, but they are certainly built to have a good shot at it.
Is it such a bad thing that theres something sword/axe warriors need to avoid/run from? Sure, they haven't had to up till now, but is it immediately unbalanced that something has come along?
If these warriors/sins keep back and let their support team have loose at the touchie he will fall quickly, since they are lacking any real self heal/utility spells to protect from most ranged assaults (with you out of melee range)
I mean .. as a elementalist .. you would run back from a mesmer full of interrupts, as a monk, you would fall back from a assassin coming at your throat, and we accept this. 'Support' classes getting their butts handed to them by either other 'support' classes, or a melee class is fine and balanced and noone whines.
But a 'ranger' causing a reasonable percentage of the 'warrior' types (which again, includes most sword/axe warriors, and average->low skilled assassins) to need to fall back is a disaster and unbalanced.
...
I'll never understand people.
Looking at Ozric's post above is like what i'm getting at. He was busy flogging up a touchie just fine. A overconfident warrior with the incorrect skills for the job ran at the touchie, and *bam* suddenly the touchie is doing ok.
Sure in Ozric's case the touchie still died, but it presents the point.
Touchies are highly specialised at what they target ... but with high specialisation, comes high weakness to anything else.
Whatever your class/skillset/team makeup .. accept your role, accept that all builds have weaknesses, and either adapt, or ensure when you run into your weakness, the rest of your team can make up for it.
[merged] Touch Rangers
cagan
TheLordOfBlah
Quote:
Originally Posted by The truth itself
The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.
Woah so its a build that requires to skill, but also sucks balls, therefore theyre a problem? I fail to see the logic in that.
They do like NO damage at all. BUT WAIT! OH NOES THERE ARE 4 OF THEM. Look, they have one button alone to counter the touch ranger. "R" :O
The description for R in the controll window should be changed to "Make the touch ranger useless. Someone said "oh well that can counter anything" Right... if they dont have knockdown, speed skills, crippling etc. Which touch rangers DONT have.
However if thats not enough, ill list a counter for all professions
monk:their AOE spells help, last time i checked monk had some knockdown too...
ranger: interrupts/cripple
ele: wards
warrior: knockdown
necro: touch em back
mesmer: about every skill they have
assassin: why would you go after a sin?
ritualist: the spirits whose names i cant think of.
They do like NO damage at all. BUT WAIT! OH NOES THERE ARE 4 OF THEM. Look, they have one button alone to counter the touch ranger. "R" :O
The description for R in the controll window should be changed to "Make the touch ranger useless. Someone said "oh well that can counter anything" Right... if they dont have knockdown, speed skills, crippling etc. Which touch rangers DONT have.
However if thats not enough, ill list a counter for all professions
monk:their AOE spells help, last time i checked monk had some knockdown too...
ranger: interrupts/cripple
ele: wards
warrior: knockdown
necro: touch em back
mesmer: about every skill they have
assassin: why would you go after a sin?
ritualist: the spirits whose names i cant think of.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah
Ward Against Foes.
TheLordOfBlah
Yea thats the one in particular I was thinking of. Thanks for that =P.
Zakarr
Quote:
Originally Posted by cagan
Is it such a bad thing that theres something sword/axe warriors need to avoid/run from?
Of course because warriors are godly characters. Especially heavy tankers must survive everything or some skills are unbalanced. 
Touchers are usually nightmare for melee attackers so no wonder when popular profession meets popular build, someone is going to cry.
Warriors, just eat your ego and run. You have to fear something too just like anyone else.
Touchers are usually nightmare for melee attackers so no wonder when popular profession meets popular build, someone is going to cry.
Warriors, just eat your ego and run. You have to fear something too just like anyone else.
Edge Martinez
The only warrior we hate seeing? The ones with /E. That's if we're solo though. If we're solo, we're to blame. I hear people say good assassins can beat a toucher. I'm swimming in amber, all from ABs, and I've never come across an assassin that can go one up. All the same, I love an assassin on my team, because good assassins may not kill a caster, but they sure take them out of the equation.
reverse_oreo
i hate these threads.....i can kill a touch ranger with any character i have. GET OVER IT, the build is in the game, and will be in the game forever. stop your bitching and learn to counter builds. thakn yuo
Theus
Quote:
Originally Posted by reverse_oreo
i hate these threads.....i can kill a touch ranger with any character i have. GET OVER IT, the build is in the game, and will be in the game forever. stop your bitching and learn to counter builds. thakn yuo
Well then,why don't you post some of your good builds and then threads like these won't have to exist.
belshazaarswrath
Touch rangers are easy to kill.
Step one cripple them
Step two hit them with arrows till they die.
Or if your a mes suck there energy dry and spike them to death.
Step one cripple them
Step two hit them with arrows till they die.
Or if your a mes suck there energy dry and spike them to death.
Dinkytowner
Wow this sounds oddly like all the iway flaming threads....
My old argument against iway holds true here as well. Quit bitching about them and just run them into the ground. Touch rangers suck. They may work in RA where you have the HH Wammos trying to tank the world, but anywhere else they are crap. Touchie team = free fame in HA.
My old argument against iway holds true here as well. Quit bitching about them and just run them into the ground. Touch rangers suck. They may work in RA where you have the HH Wammos trying to tank the world, but anywhere else they are crap. Touchie team = free fame in HA.
belshazaarswrath
Well the only reason that peopel don't liek it is that it is very easy to use and works. But usually builds liek that are easy to counter.
J3mo
The build is lame, noobs who play only press 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and skilled people who play are even lamer and should be ashamed
cagan
I see,
So, if its easy to play, its lame. And skilled people playing something easy (that works mind you) should be ashamed. ...
..
How many builds are hard to play, i mean really, you have your combo's, the button you press when you need to run, the button you press when a warrior is pounding you. Sure, a skillful player can do things better, but when it comes down to it, most builds are fairly simple.
Any competitive game is going to have people using what works, honing and refining things that already work tends to be a solid way to rise up in any game.
Its a easy build to mash keys with and do okay, but there is still skill involved in playing it *well*. Mashing '1' and '2' will only get people some wins some of the time, there is some effort and practice involved in playing it successfully.
And of course, this build hasn't only just come into existence ... factions may have offered a few skills that made it a more obvious build, but people were running touchers before factions, was it lame then?
So, if its easy to play, its lame. And skilled people playing something easy (that works mind you) should be ashamed. ...
..
How many builds are hard to play, i mean really, you have your combo's, the button you press when you need to run, the button you press when a warrior is pounding you. Sure, a skillful player can do things better, but when it comes down to it, most builds are fairly simple.
Any competitive game is going to have people using what works, honing and refining things that already work tends to be a solid way to rise up in any game.
Its a easy build to mash keys with and do okay, but there is still skill involved in playing it *well*. Mashing '1' and '2' will only get people some wins some of the time, there is some effort and practice involved in playing it successfully.
And of course, this build hasn't only just come into existence ... factions may have offered a few skills that made it a more obvious build, but people were running touchers before factions, was it lame then?
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by J3mo
The build is lame, noobs who play only press 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and skilled people who play are even lamer and should be ashamed
So Ranger Spike or Blood Spike...
1, 2, 3 SPIKE... isn't lame?
Sorry but your logic is simply not there
1, 2, 3 SPIKE... isn't lame?
Sorry but your logic is simply not there
Orinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakarr
Of course because warriors are godly characters. Especially heavy tankers must survive everything or some skills are unbalanced.
Touchers are usually nightmare for melee attackers so no wonder when popular profession meets popular build, someone is going to cry.
Warriors, just eat your ego and run. You have to fear something too just like anyone else.
Warriors do one thing. Melee. Same, to a lesser extent, for assassins. The whole purpose of these classes is that they have the skills to deal damage and survive in melee range. When a build is ccreated taht completely negates all melee advantages of a warrior except for knockdowns, then the issue becomes "is this unbalancing?"
When the chioces for a warrior become "run a hammer build or fall to all the touch rangers" then there IS a balance issue. Melee classes SHOULD be able to deal with rangers in melee range. The fact that the 2 spammable skills are not classified as attacks is a gross mistake. Touch rangers have all of the strengths of a melee class- heavy damage in melee, evasion abilities, with none of the corresponding weaknesses- blindness, high-armor targets, evasion abilities used by the opponent. When a build is inherently better at a thing than the entire class that was designed around it, the balance issues are obvious.
I can't see any reason to defend the abuse of 2 skills that are unbalancing the game. When warriors and assassins have to build to either counter touch rangers, or they die, then SOMETHING is going to have to give. I don't see any reason to continue letting touch rangers exploit the rules, at the expense of the balance ANet has tried hard to create.
Touchers are usually nightmare for melee attackers so no wonder when popular profession meets popular build, someone is going to cry.
Warriors, just eat your ego and run. You have to fear something too just like anyone else.
Warriors do one thing. Melee. Same, to a lesser extent, for assassins. The whole purpose of these classes is that they have the skills to deal damage and survive in melee range. When a build is ccreated taht completely negates all melee advantages of a warrior except for knockdowns, then the issue becomes "is this unbalancing?"When the chioces for a warrior become "run a hammer build or fall to all the touch rangers" then there IS a balance issue. Melee classes SHOULD be able to deal with rangers in melee range. The fact that the 2 spammable skills are not classified as attacks is a gross mistake. Touch rangers have all of the strengths of a melee class- heavy damage in melee, evasion abilities, with none of the corresponding weaknesses- blindness, high-armor targets, evasion abilities used by the opponent. When a build is inherently better at a thing than the entire class that was designed around it, the balance issues are obvious.
I can't see any reason to defend the abuse of 2 skills that are unbalancing the game. When warriors and assassins have to build to either counter touch rangers, or they die, then SOMETHING is going to have to give. I don't see any reason to continue letting touch rangers exploit the rules, at the expense of the balance ANet has tried hard to create.
Mera Regila
Touch Rangers may be considered a good build in some ways. Like the fact that their origional creator was probably a quite good player. Taking advantage of the fact that Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite were skills, and did 65 damage per. Expertise works on skills, this player took advantage of that to make a DECENT build that is, sadly, favored by noobs. With touches being 3/4 of a second, and you can fit 4 of those in three seconds, 65 damage per touch, you can do 260 damage every 3 seconds, thats decent dps, AND you get all of it as health.
Touch Rangers aren't the WORST build out there, i'd save that spot for two of ANet's preset builds. Paladin and Dark Flame, they are probably the worst presets there, worse than touches. Touch Rangers' dps simply pales in comparison to the dps of many other builds.
Touch Rangers aren't the WORST build out there, i'd save that spot for two of ANet's preset builds. Paladin and Dark Flame, they are probably the worst presets there, worse than touches. Touch Rangers' dps simply pales in comparison to the dps of many other builds.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah
Woah so its a build that requires to skill, but also sucks balls, therefore theyre a problem? I fail to see the logic in that.
They do like NO damage at all. BUT WAIT! OH NOES THERE ARE 4 OF THEM. Look, they have one button alone to counter the touch ranger. "R" :O
The description for R in the controll window should be changed to "Make the touch ranger useless. Someone said "oh well that can counter anything" Right... if they dont have knockdown, speed skills, crippling etc. Which touch rangers DONT have.
However if thats not enough, ill list a counter for all professions
monk:their AOE spells help, last time i checked monk had some knockdown too...
ranger: interrupts/cripple
ele: wards
warrior: knockdown
necro: touch em back
mesmer: about every skill they have
assassin: why would you go after a sin?
ritualist: the spirits whose names i cant think of. It is a decent build, doesn't "suck balls" like you imply. Like someone said earlier, it's good in AB as a capping troop because those npcs dont kite out of the way.
The R key doesn't completely neutralize touch rangers, it helps to lower their dps this is true, but not completely. Most touch rangers take Dodge or Zoujin's Haste to chase down kiters. Touches don't count as attacks, so the touch can touch all he wants without the stance ending prematurely.
They do like NO damage at all. BUT WAIT! OH NOES THERE ARE 4 OF THEM. Look, they have one button alone to counter the touch ranger. "R" :O
The description for R in the controll window should be changed to "Make the touch ranger useless. Someone said "oh well that can counter anything" Right... if they dont have knockdown, speed skills, crippling etc. Which touch rangers DONT have.
However if thats not enough, ill list a counter for all professions
monk:their AOE spells help, last time i checked monk had some knockdown too...
ranger: interrupts/cripple
ele: wards
warrior: knockdown
necro: touch em back
mesmer: about every skill they have
assassin: why would you go after a sin?
ritualist: the spirits whose names i cant think of. It is a decent build, doesn't "suck balls" like you imply. Like someone said earlier, it's good in AB as a capping troop because those npcs dont kite out of the way.
The R key doesn't completely neutralize touch rangers, it helps to lower their dps this is true, but not completely. Most touch rangers take Dodge or Zoujin's Haste to chase down kiters. Touches don't count as attacks, so the touch can touch all he wants without the stance ending prematurely.
Ure Maker
there all in AB atm for me but my assasin pretty much takes them out,
and to the remark about nerfing that means the actual Necros out there that blood spike are gonna get nerfed for something they didnt do
and to the remark about nerfing that means the actual Necros out there that blood spike are gonna get nerfed for something they didnt do
Theus
Quote:
Originally Posted by J3mo
The build is lame, noobs who play only press 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and skilled people who play are even lamer and should be ashamed
Lol.Ashamed for playing a build in a video game.Please.Theres no honor in a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing video game.Theres two outcomes and only two outcomes,You're either a winner or a loser.Whether its with a touch ranger or otherwise.
Edge Martinez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
Warriors do one thing. Melee. Same, to a lesser extent, for assassins. The whole purpose of these classes is that they have the skills to deal damage and survive in melee range. When a build is ccreated taht completely negates all melee advantages of a warrior except for knockdowns, then the issue becomes "is this unbalancing?"
That statement is more "last year" than Nelly. The warriors you speak of do two things now... melee and whine here. The OTHER warriors are busy racking up amber and jadeite, because they have learned how to cast. Novel concept, I know, but...
And Assassins, to a lesser extent, have skills to survive in melee range? Unless Anet's latest update added a skill named 'Platemail and a shield', I'm not sure which GW you've been playing. They can, however, deal damage. And the ones who noticed they have a secondary profession? They're swimming in amber too, although their pool will always be shallower.
As for completely negating all melee advantages of a warrior except for KDs (which I also think is incorrect), then we're even, because in creating a toucher, we've pretty much negated all ranger advantages except stances. But like those OTHER warriors, we've started using our secondary skillset instead.
Edit: Come to think about it... most all known builds screw over warriors, directly or indirectly. My Me/W beat a Wammo in an AB showdown the other night using two skills, Illusionary Weaponry and Distortion... come to think of it, all I did was press 1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,etc. OMG... and I think I negated ALL melee advantages, including KDs! Nerf the Mesmer!
That statement is more "last year" than Nelly. The warriors you speak of do two things now... melee and whine here. The OTHER warriors are busy racking up amber and jadeite, because they have learned how to cast. Novel concept, I know, but...
And Assassins, to a lesser extent, have skills to survive in melee range? Unless Anet's latest update added a skill named 'Platemail and a shield', I'm not sure which GW you've been playing. They can, however, deal damage. And the ones who noticed they have a secondary profession? They're swimming in amber too, although their pool will always be shallower.
As for completely negating all melee advantages of a warrior except for KDs (which I also think is incorrect), then we're even, because in creating a toucher, we've pretty much negated all ranger advantages except stances. But like those OTHER warriors, we've started using our secondary skillset instead.
Edit: Come to think about it... most all known builds screw over warriors, directly or indirectly. My Me/W beat a Wammo in an AB showdown the other night using two skills, Illusionary Weaponry and Distortion... come to think of it, all I did was press 1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,etc. OMG... and I think I negated ALL melee advantages, including KDs! Nerf the Mesmer!
markus_thom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
Warriors do one thing. Melee. Same, to a lesser extent, for assassins. The whole purpose of these classes is that they have the skills to deal damage and survive in melee range. When a build is ccreated taht completely negates all melee advantages of a warrior except for knockdowns, then the issue becomes "is this unbalancing?"
When the chioces for a warrior become "run a hammer build or fall to all the touch rangers" then there IS a balance issue. Melee classes SHOULD be able to deal with rangers in melee range. The fact that the 2 spammable skills are not classified as attacks is a gross mistake. Touch rangers have all of the strengths of a melee class- heavy damage in melee, evasion abilities, with none of the corresponding weaknesses- blindness, high-armor targets, evasion abilities used by the opponent. When a build is inherently better at a thing than the entire class that was designed around it, the balance issues are obvious.
I can't see any reason to defend the abuse of 2 skills that are unbalancing the game. When warriors and assassins have to build to either counter touch rangers, or they die, then SOMETHING is going to have to give. I don't see any reason to continue letting touch rangers exploit the rules, at the expense of the balance ANet has tried hard to create. So basically your saying warrior should be superior to every other class in the game at close in contact. Didnt you just mention that hammers work, well then use them. When running a ranger spiker(high physical power) I find I cant rely on that build due to warriors heavy armour reduction I dont make a big song and dance about it being unblanced I simply change my build to face the situation ie......... changing my skill bar .........
I think with many warriors they think that each attribute in the warrior line is a different profession, compared to other professions you see rangers swapping all the time between marksmanship and wilderness survival,
Obviously the wilderness survival attribute is more effective against certain builds and situations it depends, and the marksmanship attribute effective in other situations such as doing damage to fire elems and interrupting casters and such.
So if other professions have to swap attributes why cant warrior, are hammers to uncool?
Tho I do agree about touch skills not being 'blindable', a little unfair seeing as they are acting the same way as a melee fighter it would make sense for them to be blinded.
When the chioces for a warrior become "run a hammer build or fall to all the touch rangers" then there IS a balance issue. Melee classes SHOULD be able to deal with rangers in melee range. The fact that the 2 spammable skills are not classified as attacks is a gross mistake. Touch rangers have all of the strengths of a melee class- heavy damage in melee, evasion abilities, with none of the corresponding weaknesses- blindness, high-armor targets, evasion abilities used by the opponent. When a build is inherently better at a thing than the entire class that was designed around it, the balance issues are obvious.
I can't see any reason to defend the abuse of 2 skills that are unbalancing the game. When warriors and assassins have to build to either counter touch rangers, or they die, then SOMETHING is going to have to give. I don't see any reason to continue letting touch rangers exploit the rules, at the expense of the balance ANet has tried hard to create. So basically your saying warrior should be superior to every other class in the game at close in contact. Didnt you just mention that hammers work, well then use them. When running a ranger spiker(high physical power) I find I cant rely on that build due to warriors heavy armour reduction I dont make a big song and dance about it being unblanced I simply change my build to face the situation ie......... changing my skill bar .........
I think with many warriors they think that each attribute in the warrior line is a different profession, compared to other professions you see rangers swapping all the time between marksmanship and wilderness survival,
Obviously the wilderness survival attribute is more effective against certain builds and situations it depends, and the marksmanship attribute effective in other situations such as doing damage to fire elems and interrupting casters and such.
So if other professions have to swap attributes why cant warrior, are hammers to uncool?
Tho I do agree about touch skills not being 'blindable', a little unfair seeing as they are acting the same way as a melee fighter it would make sense for them to be blinded.
RTSFirebat
So basically the only people complaining about Touch Rangers really are these "so-called Godly" warriors who have meet their match and unwilling to change their builds?
Caleb
hehe RTS..
I think Anet spoke pretty loudly on this issue with such a sweeping change to skills that needed balancing in this last update.
They must agree that these skills do not need further balancing at this point.
I think Anet spoke pretty loudly on this issue with such a sweeping change to skills that needed balancing in this last update.
They must agree that these skills do not need further balancing at this point.
Orinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
So basically the only people complaining about Touch Rangers really are these "so-called Godly" warriors who have meet their match and unwilling to change their builds?
Mainly, I play an assassin when I visit the PvP areas. -shrugs- if you want to generalize, there's plenty of that in the thread (calling anyone who plays the build noobs, or the reverse, calling anyone who has trouble countering the build noobs).
My ONLY argument with the touch rangers, honestly, is that they face none of the drawbacks in melee range that melee classes face- skills like empathy that trigger on attack, (or even backfire, since that only riggers on "spells") blindness, high armor targets, stances that evade or block, or even the basic miss chance granted by high-end skills like shadow form. These "touch" skills never miss, always do full damage, heal the user, and are spammable. If that doesn't appear unbalanced to you, then I'd love to hear what you DO consider unbalanced, because skills that can be spammed for (other people's numbers) 65 DPS while ALSO healing for 65 health per second, and cannot miss from melee range, seems quite overpowered to ME.
Disagree if you like, you're free to do so. But try to disagree with my reasons, not with what you percieve my motives to be.
Mainly, I play an assassin when I visit the PvP areas. -shrugs- if you want to generalize, there's plenty of that in the thread (calling anyone who plays the build noobs, or the reverse, calling anyone who has trouble countering the build noobs).My ONLY argument with the touch rangers, honestly, is that they face none of the drawbacks in melee range that melee classes face- skills like empathy that trigger on attack, (or even backfire, since that only riggers on "spells") blindness, high armor targets, stances that evade or block, or even the basic miss chance granted by high-end skills like shadow form. These "touch" skills never miss, always do full damage, heal the user, and are spammable. If that doesn't appear unbalanced to you, then I'd love to hear what you DO consider unbalanced, because skills that can be spammed for (other people's numbers) 65 DPS while ALSO healing for 65 health per second, and cannot miss from melee range, seems quite overpowered to ME.
Disagree if you like, you're free to do so. But try to disagree with my reasons, not with what you percieve my motives to be.
Curse You
Personally, I dislike Touch Rangers. The build could be programmed into a bot, were it not for the variable environments of PvP. It's mostly just spamming two skills. Wow people can press 1 and 2 over and over, real hard.
I went into an Alliance Battle recently on my assassin and I met up with an entire groupd of touch ranger. It seemed like the entire other team was touch rangers. That is probably the most annoying thing in game.
However, I then changed to my mesmer. I just countered them all with Diversion, works great.
However, personally, I feel that the ranger attribute expertise really should get some adjustments. Rangers already got low cost on most of their skills (yes rangers don't have ANY skills that do NOT fall under expertise).
I just feel that it should be changed so that it only effects Ranger Skills and attack skills (assassin attacks mostly). Not much of a nerf if you ask me.
I went into an Alliance Battle recently on my assassin and I met up with an entire groupd of touch ranger. It seemed like the entire other team was touch rangers. That is probably the most annoying thing in game.
However, I then changed to my mesmer. I just countered them all with Diversion, works great.
However, personally, I feel that the ranger attribute expertise really should get some adjustments. Rangers already got low cost on most of their skills (yes rangers don't have ANY skills that do NOT fall under expertise).
I just feel that it should be changed so that it only effects Ranger Skills and attack skills (assassin attacks mostly). Not much of a nerf if you ask me.
Edge Martinez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
Mainly, I play an assassin when I visit the PvP areas. -shrugs- if you want to generalize, there's plenty of that in the thread (calling anyone who plays the build noobs, or the reverse, calling anyone who has trouble countering the build noobs).
My ONLY argument with the touch rangers, honestly, is that they face none of the drawbacks in melee range that melee classes face- skills like empathy that trigger on attack, (or even backfire, since that only riggers on "spells") blindness, high armor targets, stances that evade or block, or even the basic miss chance granted by high-end skills like shadow form. These "touch" skills never miss, always do full damage, heal the user, and are spammable. If that doesn't appear unbalanced to you, then I'd love to hear what you DO consider unbalanced, because skills that can be spammed for (other people's numbers) 65 DPS while ALSO healing for 65 health per second, and cannot miss from melee range, seems quite overpowered to ME.
Disagree if you like, you're free to do so. But try to disagree with my reasons, not with what you percieve my motives to be.
The blindness thing... casting a fireball blind, or directing a meteor show blind, or locating a target to backfire blind, or stone daggering blind, or actually seeing a corpse to raise while blind... it's all garbage, so having these skills work for the touchers while blind fits in with the game mechanics fine.
Most armor ignoring spells do full damage, hence the armor ignoring part. Furthermore, these are necro spells that are also life stealing.
Most classes have skills that can get past stances. As a touch ranger player, I know this is (ouch) true, because we lose stances all the time.
As for the spammable part? MOST of the good builds have a certain amount of spamming to them. Don't buy into the hype that the build is for noobs. It's a fairly solid build for alliance battles and swarming. One build that is spammable and can really hurt more than a touchy is a Me/W. And as far as overpowered spam beasts, nothing tops a boon protector.
Either way, it seems like ANet has spoken loudly in the past few days.
My ONLY argument with the touch rangers, honestly, is that they face none of the drawbacks in melee range that melee classes face- skills like empathy that trigger on attack, (or even backfire, since that only riggers on "spells") blindness, high armor targets, stances that evade or block, or even the basic miss chance granted by high-end skills like shadow form. These "touch" skills never miss, always do full damage, heal the user, and are spammable. If that doesn't appear unbalanced to you, then I'd love to hear what you DO consider unbalanced, because skills that can be spammed for (other people's numbers) 65 DPS while ALSO healing for 65 health per second, and cannot miss from melee range, seems quite overpowered to ME.
Disagree if you like, you're free to do so. But try to disagree with my reasons, not with what you percieve my motives to be.
The blindness thing... casting a fireball blind, or directing a meteor show blind, or locating a target to backfire blind, or stone daggering blind, or actually seeing a corpse to raise while blind... it's all garbage, so having these skills work for the touchers while blind fits in with the game mechanics fine.
Most armor ignoring spells do full damage, hence the armor ignoring part. Furthermore, these are necro spells that are also life stealing.
Most classes have skills that can get past stances. As a touch ranger player, I know this is (ouch) true, because we lose stances all the time.
As for the spammable part? MOST of the good builds have a certain amount of spamming to them. Don't buy into the hype that the build is for noobs. It's a fairly solid build for alliance battles and swarming. One build that is spammable and can really hurt more than a touchy is a Me/W. And as far as overpowered spam beasts, nothing tops a boon protector.
Either way, it seems like ANet has spoken loudly in the past few days.
Haggard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Dragon
i still find W/* around more than anthing else becasuse they are the most damagin class out there with survivablilty
i say buff the eles
i play ele so this is a bias comment. lol. They should be the most damaging single spell (short time spam) attackers but that will probably bring spiking problems with high dmg spells, so i can see why they don't
Good god, he said all this before the last update! He's nostradamus!
i say buff the eles
i play ele so this is a bias comment. lol. They should be the most damaging single spell (short time spam) attackers but that will probably bring spiking problems with high dmg spells, so i can see why they don't
Good god, he said all this before the last update! He's nostradamus!
RTSFirebat
I've said it once and I'll say it again:
- There is no need to nerf or change the life stealing skills.
- Just make it so if a person is blind they "miss" with the skills like anyother Melee skill or spell would.
Easy...
- There is no need to nerf or change the life stealing skills.
- Just make it so if a person is blind they "miss" with the skills like anyother Melee skill or spell would.
Easy...
Silent Kitty
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
I've said it once and I'll say it again:
- There is no need to nerf or change the life stealing skills.
- Just make it so if a person is blind they "miss" with the skills like anyother Melee skill or spell would.
Easy... That would mean my necro can be blinded too. No deal!
- There is no need to nerf or change the life stealing skills.
- Just make it so if a person is blind they "miss" with the skills like anyother Melee skill or spell would.
Easy... That would mean my necro can be blinded too. No deal!
aron searle
This thread has just gotten so lame, theres something like 50 counters mentioned in this thread, i dont think a build with that many counters needs nerfing.
Last night in 12v12 my team of 4 meet 4 touch rangers, we won evertime, and we didnt even plan a build to specificly counter them.
Touch rangers suck, they have no versatility, all they can do is stand there and spam a few spells, take those spells away and they cant do bugger all.
Last night in 12v12 my team of 4 meet 4 touch rangers, we won evertime, and we didnt even plan a build to specificly counter them.
Touch rangers suck, they have no versatility, all they can do is stand there and spam a few spells, take those spells away and they cant do bugger all.
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
That would mean my necro can be blinded too. No deal!
How is that a bad thing?
Skuld
You can't see their pretty eyes ;(
Master Adamdk
Been doing some thinking, and now my personal opinion oN Touch Rangers Is; Very clever idea.
Sure, they can be annoying as hell playing against them, but what better way to deal damage while getting healed (Health Stealing). Think of it, if your team isn't prepared to go against good Touch Rangers, you got no chance. They are similar to spike really.. People don't like playing against them, BUT, take the point of view of an touch Ranger, your gonna be able to own people.
If your getting attack while Stealing health, your healing yourself, and with quick recharges, your gonna have a good chance of staying alive unless your against either A) A very good Balanced Team or B) A spike team.
It'll be a shame if ANet nerf this by making the Vampiric spells recharge longer, because I like this Build even though I haven't played it, but been against it. I got annoyed but then at the same time thought "That's a nice little Build you got.. Healing and damage dealing".
Sure, they can be annoying as hell playing against them, but what better way to deal damage while getting healed (Health Stealing). Think of it, if your team isn't prepared to go against good Touch Rangers, you got no chance. They are similar to spike really.. People don't like playing against them, BUT, take the point of view of an touch Ranger, your gonna be able to own people.
If your getting attack while Stealing health, your healing yourself, and with quick recharges, your gonna have a good chance of staying alive unless your against either A) A very good Balanced Team or B) A spike team.
It'll be a shame if ANet nerf this by making the Vampiric spells recharge longer, because I like this Build even though I haven't played it, but been against it. I got annoyed but then at the same time thought "That's a nice little Build you got.. Healing and damage dealing".
Silent Kitty
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
How is that a bad thing?
Blinding is not supposed to have an effect on casters. Sure they can be blinded, but still cast with godly accuracy. Actually, I don't think that touchers are actually melee fighters, therefor blind should have no effect on them either.
There should be a paralize spell. "Target foe can not move for 3 seconds, your spells are dissabled for 5 seconds", or something like that. Nukers would have a field day with that. Necro paralizes vicitim and ele nukes the crap out of him
Blinding is not supposed to have an effect on casters. Sure they can be blinded, but still cast with godly accuracy. Actually, I don't think that touchers are actually melee fighters, therefor blind should have no effect on them either.There should be a paralize spell. "Target foe can not move for 3 seconds, your spells are dissabled for 5 seconds", or something like that. Nukers would have a field day with that. Necro paralizes vicitim and ele nukes the crap out of him
Da Cebuano
The annoying thing about this vampiric skills is that:
Goes through shadowform and spellbreaker
Can't be backfired
can't be spirit shackled
Very quick cast
Can't empathize them
etc...
Goes through shadowform and spellbreaker
Can't be backfired
can't be spirit shackled
Very quick cast
Can't empathize them
etc...
Numa Pompilius
FWIW... changed my ranger into a touchie and went to RA. Got in a team with another touch-ranger, an interrupt ranger, and a wammo. No monk or other healing. We won 16 consecutive matches, that means that the last six were against organized teams (even a couple of guild teams).
My impression is that the touch ranger is a powerful build, and that people still have no clue how to fight them when there's more than one.
Diversion, btw, does slow down a touch ranger, but doesn't make him useless, and it's a three-second cast and a touch ranger can bring interrupts (I did).
I'd like to see all touch-the-enemy skills converted to melee attacks.
My impression is that the touch ranger is a powerful build, and that people still have no clue how to fight them when there's more than one.
Diversion, btw, does slow down a touch ranger, but doesn't make him useless, and it's a three-second cast and a touch ranger can bring interrupts (I did).
I'd like to see all touch-the-enemy skills converted to melee attacks.
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
I'd like to see all touch-the-enemy skills converted to melee attacks.
Or the more simple solution to just make ranger expertise affect only ranger skills. Doesnt affect any other profession, which is the concern for some regarding the necro skills in question. Since fast casting is a relativly moot point here now, i really do not see where the big problem in the cross class parity is here. Oh yeah, bigger energy pool does not equate out to faster regeneration. That regen only starts to catch up to the effect expertise has passivly after sacrificing a skill slot and other drawbacks associated with ether prodigy. Strength with dagger skills is just silly anyway, since armor penetration only affects the base weapon damage and is weaker than the 15&20% mods on top of being energy based on a energy starved character. Better off just spamming irresistable blow.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Cebuano
The annoying thing about this vampiric skills is that:
Goes through shadowform and spellbreaker
Can't be backfired
can't be spirit shackled
Very quick cast
Can't empathize them
etc... The annoying thing about warriors/assassins/rangers is
Goes through Spellbreaker
Can't be backfired
Very quick attack
Inflict a wide variety of conditions
Can knockdown
Traps avoid Shadow Form
Can interrupt
The annoying thing about casters
Some have skills to avoid Shadow Form/Spellbreaker
Non-targetable spells (Chilblains ftw) avoid it
Can't be blinded
Can't be Empathized
Inflict a smaller variety of conditions
Can knockdown
Can interrupt
Should we nerf them while we're at it?
Goes through shadowform and spellbreaker
Can't be backfired
can't be spirit shackled
Very quick cast
Can't empathize them
etc... The annoying thing about warriors/assassins/rangers is
Goes through Spellbreaker
Can't be backfired
Very quick attack
Inflict a wide variety of conditions
Can knockdown
Traps avoid Shadow Form
Can interrupt
The annoying thing about casters
Some have skills to avoid Shadow Form/Spellbreaker
Non-targetable spells (Chilblains ftw) avoid it
Can't be blinded
Can't be Empathized
Inflict a smaller variety of conditions
Can knockdown
Can interrupt
Should we nerf them while we're at it?
Ole Man Bourbon
Casters can attack from range, too. :P
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
I've said it once and I'll say it again:
- There is no need to nerf or change the life stealing skills.
- Just make it so if a person is blind they "miss" with the skills like anyother Melee skill or spell would.
Easy... I don't understand this at all, blind doesn't stop touchies. Even if it is made so it does, it won't help anyone. The reason. Plague touch ftw? Any condition made to a touch ranger is doomed to be used against the enemy, I've had funny experiances with BHA interruptors dazing me, causing the death of their own monks, or blinding me to cause the death of their warriors.
I might not be understanding you here, but spells arent negated by blind, or even effected by it.
- There is no need to nerf or change the life stealing skills.
- Just make it so if a person is blind they "miss" with the skills like anyother Melee skill or spell would.
Easy... I don't understand this at all, blind doesn't stop touchies. Even if it is made so it does, it won't help anyone. The reason. Plague touch ftw? Any condition made to a touch ranger is doomed to be used against the enemy, I've had funny experiances with BHA interruptors dazing me, causing the death of their own monks, or blinding me to cause the death of their warriors.
I might not be understanding you here, but spells arent negated by blind, or even effected by it.