[merged] Touch Rangers
Curse You
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
Or the more simple solution to just make ranger expertise affect only ranger skills. Doesnt affect any other profession, which is the concern for some regarding the necro skills in question. Since fast casting is a relativly moot point here now, i really do not see where the big problem in the cross class parity is here. Oh yeah, bigger energy pool does not equate out to faster regeneration. That regen only starts to catch up to the effect expertise has passivly after sacrificing a skill slot and other drawbacks associated with ether prodigy. Strength with dagger skills is just silly anyway, since armor penetration only affects the base weapon damage and is weaker than the 15&20% mods on top of being energy based on a energy starved character. Better off just spamming irresistable blow.
Well good to see at least one person shares my opinion. I have a ranger, I've read what expertise says, and I know that Anet stated that expertise was working as intended.
But, think of it on a logical sense. How can a RANGER be an expert in blood magic? How can they be an expert in anything that isn't related to bows or the wilderness? That just makes no sense.
But, think of it on a logical sense. How can a RANGER be an expert in blood magic? How can they be an expert in anything that isn't related to bows or the wilderness? That just makes no sense.
TwinRaven
The moment i started killing touch rangers with a pet build...(I'm a ranger and often play the touchie route)...I decided anyone who can't take one out, slow one down or get away from one is PATHETIC...Think about it: my PET kills them with regularity. I run a build that causes conditions from a distance and interrupts = dead touchie. Can we please stop saying they are overpowered? If I killed you in Aspenwood, post below...don't be embarrassed...
As for the above post....don't confuse Expertise with being an Expert....blood magic tops out at 12 for a non-necro....Expertise only reduces energy cost for the skill. A necro can get up to 16 blood magic...so the ranger is by no means an expert in blood magic, but simply takes advantage of the low cost of using a secondary skill. this comes into play with MULTIPLE ranger builds including the ever-popular Bunny Thumper.
In your final comment, you left out Beast Mastery as something a ranger can be Expert in....which by the way, I have at 16 and use to kill touch rangers (and assassins, monks, warriors, etc...) If it all makes no sense to you...you obviously don't play a ranger.
As for the above post....don't confuse Expertise with being an Expert....blood magic tops out at 12 for a non-necro....Expertise only reduces energy cost for the skill. A necro can get up to 16 blood magic...so the ranger is by no means an expert in blood magic, but simply takes advantage of the low cost of using a secondary skill. this comes into play with MULTIPLE ranger builds including the ever-popular Bunny Thumper.
In your final comment, you left out Beast Mastery as something a ranger can be Expert in....which by the way, I have at 16 and use to kill touch rangers (and assassins, monks, warriors, etc...) If it all makes no sense to you...you obviously don't play a ranger.
Numa Pompilius
I made a touch ranger and went to RA. Ended up in a team with another touchie, one interrupt ranger, and a wammo-with-mending. All of them good players, but with no monk we still shouldn't have had a chance.
16 straight wins, most of them flawless.
In team arena we flawlessed a guild team with two monks.
We finally lost to a guild team, but it was a long match which could have gone either way. I think if we hadn't been getting so cocky, talking about what happens after 20 consecutive, we might have won.
I'm sure most of you can kill one touch ranger, but it was very clear that even players in organized teams had no clue what to do when _two_ touch rangers were chasing them, while their monk was getting knocked around by a warrior, and an interrupter made their casters life miserable.
As for beast mastery, I frequently used enemy pets (and spirits) to top up my health when I was getting smacked about.
IMO, after one day of playing, the weakness of touch rangers is the energy. Even at 16 expertise and using OoB, a touch ranger *will* run out of energy and have to wait. Diversion hardly slowed me down, but energy burn and other types of energy theft were damn annoying.
All in all, a very strong build which, contrary to what has been let on in this thread, few players have effective counters against if they face more than one.
16 straight wins, most of them flawless.
In team arena we flawlessed a guild team with two monks.
We finally lost to a guild team, but it was a long match which could have gone either way. I think if we hadn't been getting so cocky, talking about what happens after 20 consecutive, we might have won.
I'm sure most of you can kill one touch ranger, but it was very clear that even players in organized teams had no clue what to do when _two_ touch rangers were chasing them, while their monk was getting knocked around by a warrior, and an interrupter made their casters life miserable.
As for beast mastery, I frequently used enemy pets (and spirits) to top up my health when I was getting smacked about.
IMO, after one day of playing, the weakness of touch rangers is the energy. Even at 16 expertise and using OoB, a touch ranger *will* run out of energy and have to wait. Diversion hardly slowed me down, but energy burn and other types of energy theft were damn annoying.
All in all, a very strong build which, contrary to what has been let on in this thread, few players have effective counters against if they face more than one.
Priest Of Sin
THE BEST PURPOSE FOR A TOUCHER:
Green Farming. Boss out in the open? Touchers are almost pure self-sufficient, so, they'll have no problem. 14 Unges Of The Oni and counting.
Green Farming. Boss out in the open? Touchers are almost pure self-sufficient, so, they'll have no problem. 14 Unges Of The Oni and counting.
Ole Man Bourbon
All it takes is a team with 2 decent anti-touch ranger skills, which are common, and it's game over.
Siddious
These toucher threads are everywhere at the moment. Can't you guys just learn to counter them.
Every proffesion has a counter to them:
WARRIORS - Knockdown, Crippling.
RANGERS - Degen, Crippling/Snares, Traps.
ELEMENTALIST - Knockdown, Snares, Degen.
NECRO - Degen.
MESMER - Degen, Snares, Energy Denial, Diversion, Blackout.
MONK - Healing.
ASSASIN - Crippling.
RITUALIST - Healing, Knockdown, Snares
See that! Plenty of counters, and I'm sure I missed plenty out.
Every proffesion has a counter to them:
WARRIORS - Knockdown, Crippling.
RANGERS - Degen, Crippling/Snares, Traps.
ELEMENTALIST - Knockdown, Snares, Degen.
NECRO - Degen.
MESMER - Degen, Snares, Energy Denial, Diversion, Blackout.
MONK - Healing.
ASSASIN - Crippling.
RITUALIST - Healing, Knockdown, Snares
See that! Plenty of counters, and I'm sure I missed plenty out.
Xanthar
Well, we all know by now that touch rangers can be defeated, but the problem seems to be that most players still are not employing countertactics. In order to render touch rangers obsolete more people will have to bring snare hexes and farm touchies in the arenas 
Numa, personally I think that your winning series was not that strange. Just getting four good players in one group with any functional build will get you 10 wins in RA - Skill will show. The wins in TA are harder to discount, but again: You had a high DPS build and good players. It is the makings of a successful TA group in itself.
Interestingly, I have a converse anecdote where my RA team went on to claim 5 wins in TA before dissolving, one against a three-toucher-one-monk team. As I was playing the monk, I had a train of touchers following me as I kited throughout the match but we managed a flawless anyway - In large part because we had a cripshot ranger. Sometimes, that's all it takes
Numa, personally I think that your winning series was not that strange. Just getting four good players in one group with any functional build will get you 10 wins in RA - Skill will show. The wins in TA are harder to discount, but again: You had a high DPS build and good players. It is the makings of a successful TA group in itself.
Interestingly, I have a converse anecdote where my RA team went on to claim 5 wins in TA before dissolving, one against a three-toucher-one-monk team. As I was playing the monk, I had a train of touchers following me as I kited throughout the match but we managed a flawless anyway - In large part because we had a cripshot ranger. Sometimes, that's all it takes
JoeKnowMo
Didn't wanna re-post since I posted in another thread. Yes, I know, there's like a bazillion threads about touchies. 
I tried to sum things up about touches as best I could. Check it out:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072648&page=4
I tried to sum things up about touches as best I could. Check it out:http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072648&page=4
waiver
lv16 curse necro can own touchies.
0mar
The only thing overpowered about touch rangers is the stupidity rampant in RA.
Curse You
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinRaven
In your final comment, you left out Beast Mastery as something a ranger can be Expert in....which by the way, I have at 16 and use to kill touch rangers (and assassins, monks, warriors, etc...) If it all makes no sense to you...you obviously don't play a ranger.
Oh and sorry I left out beast mastery, I never really touch it. I find relying entirely on a seperate being doesn't interest me much, you're too prone to being demolished by having the enemy kill your pet, then just jump you.
As a last point. Please then explain to me how expertise has any reason to lower the cost of a person's skills? Words usually have meanings behind them.
makosi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin
THE BEST PURPOSE FOR A TOUCHER:
Green Farming. Boss out in the open? Touchers are almost pure self-sufficient, so, they'll have no problem. 14 Unges Of The Oni and counting. Amen. The touchable boss list is ever growing. Special thanks to Cultist Rajazan.
Green Farming. Boss out in the open? Touchers are almost pure self-sufficient, so, they'll have no problem. 14 Unges Of The Oni and counting. Amen. The touchable boss list is ever growing. Special thanks to Cultist Rajazan.
Shadow of Light
I don't like touch rangers (same as I don't like IWAY 
), but in the beginning it was because I didn't understand how they worked or how to counter them. After doing a little reading up on their skills... well... let's just say I danced on the corpse of every touch ranger I diversioned to death last night.
), but in the beginning it was because I didn't understand how they worked or how to counter them. After doing a little reading up on their skills... well... let's just say I danced on the corpse of every touch ranger I diversioned to death last night.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddious
Every proffesion has a counter to them:
WARRIORS - Knockdown, Crippling.
RANGERS - Degen, Crippling/Snares, Traps.
ELEMENTALIST - Knockdown, Snares, Degen.
NECRO - Degen.
MESMER - Degen, Snares, Energy Denial, Diversion, Blackout.
MONK - Healing.
ASSASIN - Crippling.
RITUALIST - Healing, Knockdown, Snares
See that! Plenty of counters, and I'm sure I missed plenty out. Wars also, outdamage and pwn with bulls strike+sprint while they're running, and shock when they get up, constant kd till they're dead.
Rits can pound with spirits that use interrupts and damage at the same time.
Rangers can use Distracting Shot, most basic interrupt skill ever.
Just thought i'd ad those to your already impressive list.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo
Didn't wanna re-post since I posted in another thread. Yes, I know, there's like a bazillion threads about touchies. I tried to sum things up about touches as best I could. Check it out:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072648&page=4 One SLIGHT problem with one of your theories on the post. Cripshot Rangers CAN hit them with their arrows due to the fact that Cripshot cannot be blocked or evaded, negating zoujin's haste, even if they manage to avoid one through kiting, another will come in one second, leaving the touch open for serious punishment.
Both of these stances have recharge of 30 seconds, so you cant have constant stance evasion, it doesn't work like that, if this were so rangers of anything other than cripshot would fall before them, which they dont. Other than that your post was good, and enlightening.
I tried to sum things up about touches as best I could. Check it out:http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072648&page=4 One SLIGHT problem with one of your theories on the post. Cripshot Rangers CAN hit them with their arrows due to the fact that Cripshot cannot be blocked or evaded, negating zoujin's haste, even if they manage to avoid one through kiting, another will come in one second, leaving the touch open for serious punishment.
Both of these stances have recharge of 30 seconds, so you cant have constant stance evasion, it doesn't work like that, if this were so rangers of anything other than cripshot would fall before them, which they dont. Other than that your post was good, and enlightening.
Numa Pompilius
I'd suggest anyone interested in, or annoyed about, touch rangers to create one and try it out in arena.
shardfenix
I figured it out. As soon as people find a way to abuse a build, arenanet knows about it. Howwever, they give it 1 season to be playable after the season it's abused in. Touch rangers will be nerfed next season, along with assassins and apostasy and rit spirits.
Seissor
they are annoying, not because they are overpowered, but because every tom dick and harry bring one in to play. Makes for uninteresting gameplay. Still cant deny that I love sneaking up on then and distracting shot/savage shot their skills.
frojack
Ritualists counter touchers lol. Yeah, if you spec out in a mesmer secondary. Healing is not a counter for touchers, it only prolongs the enevitable. You WILL run out of energy before they do. Plus, it's not like your doing them any harm is it?
The simple fact is there is very little a ritualist can do against a toucher. Spiris are way too vunerable to the same attacks (oh sorry, touches) that said ranger used against yourself. By the time you've even finished bringing one to this world, you'll be dead already. So yeah. Mesmer secondary.
Anyways, pardon the interruption. Carry on. I'm sure Anet will enjoy continuing to ignore you all.
The simple fact is there is very little a ritualist can do against a toucher. Spiris are way too vunerable to the same attacks (oh sorry, touches) that said ranger used against yourself. By the time you've even finished bringing one to this world, you'll be dead already. So yeah. Mesmer secondary.
Anyways, pardon the interruption. Carry on. I'm sure Anet will enjoy continuing to ignore you all
.
Sily Wabbit
I suppose Wanderlust + Dissonace would work on a touch, second he uses Whirling Kite, seens you running and hits Dodge, dead touchie.
not to mention all the siht with channeling you could do with him KD'd/Interrupted.
not to mention all the siht with channeling you could do with him KD'd/Interrupted.
Kidney Licker
I think that Healing Hands might need a nerf rather than touch rangers.
I was playing a touchie on the Luxon side and crossed paths with a Wammo who at the start managed to tank the 3 Luxon Warriors, the turtle, me, and another non-touchie ranger I think for 5-10 minutes. As far as I could tell he was only using healing breeze, vigorous spirit and healing hands for healing.
If you're gonna nerf touchies, some monk skills should be nerfed so that W's can't tank for that long :P.
I take enchantment stripping now :/
I was playing a touchie on the Luxon side and crossed paths with a Wammo who at the start managed to tank the 3 Luxon Warriors, the turtle, me, and another non-touchie ranger I think for 5-10 minutes. As far as I could tell he was only using healing breeze, vigorous spirit and healing hands for healing.
If you're gonna nerf touchies, some monk skills should be nerfed so that W's can't tank for that long :P.
I take enchantment stripping now :/
Curse You
Hehe, try using Quickening Zephyr on them. It makes their touch cost 7 energy, and it raises the cost of any spells they use too.
Guild Terror
wait let me get this stright... i should take 1 build to destroy another build...
so the touchy kills almost everything and get beat from your build...
and your build kills touchies, but loses out to alot of ther builds?
bringing a whole char to stop one build is stupid, switching a few skills to stop one build is stupid because those replaced skills are needed against other builds
and all those who say about using melee and other things on touch, let me get this stright too...
im ment to go to hit them, then have them use something to stop them, so i run off, while they stop following me and go for someone who cant run all the time, so i come back and they stop me again making me run off, after all that i come to kill him but he beats me becuse our monk is gone bacause he had to stop to heal everyone, giving the touchy and other chars a easy job killing, and there monk is having a easy job because i wont hit anyone because of this one char?
eles would be the best, except from that high ele armor on the ranger, while degen and kiting would work, what stops them from going after smeone else???
touchies need to get nerfed, maybe not so they unplayable, but so they can get beaten in as many ways as any other build
so the touchy kills almost everything and get beat from your build...
and your build kills touchies, but loses out to alot of ther builds?
bringing a whole char to stop one build is stupid, switching a few skills to stop one build is stupid because those replaced skills are needed against other builds
and all those who say about using melee and other things on touch, let me get this stright too...
im ment to go to hit them, then have them use something to stop them, so i run off, while they stop following me and go for someone who cant run all the time, so i come back and they stop me again making me run off, after all that i come to kill him but he beats me becuse our monk is gone bacause he had to stop to heal everyone, giving the touchy and other chars a easy job killing, and there monk is having a easy job because i wont hit anyone because of this one char?
eles would be the best, except from that high ele armor on the ranger, while degen and kiting would work, what stops them from going after smeone else???
touchies need to get nerfed, maybe not so they unplayable, but so they can get beaten in as many ways as any other build
TadaceAce
They CAN"T nerf touchers. If they do it be by making touch and bite spells. If they do that there will be a whole new breed of annoying cookie cutter thats a lot more deadly.
Caleb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild Terror
touchies need to get nerfed, maybe not so they unplayable, but so they can get beaten in as many ways as any other build
They already can, you just state you are too stubborn to change any of your skills. If you refuse to adapt to the people you are playing against and bring counters that would effect far more than just touchers, well you are just being stubborn.
They already can, you just state you are too stubborn to change any of your skills. If you refuse to adapt to the people you are playing against and bring counters that would effect far more than just touchers, well you are just being stubborn.
Flabber Babble
Had to do it ^^ (not that it'll ever happen
)
samifly
Cute!
Cottage Pie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flabber Babble
Had to do it ^^ (not that it'll ever happen
)
that's brilliant!
Aisius
cool pic^
I think the main problems are-
when touchers are in force like 2-3 with a warrior or ele support (spike)
the fact that although monks can have mend ailment (mend ailment only recieves the protection heal if there's lasting conditions)and mend condition (only target other). Where as Vamperic Bite and Vamperic Touch are exactly the SAME.
If it was only touchers it'd be easy to counter but with spikers in the mix makes it impossible to out heal with touchers.
I think the main problems are-
when touchers are in force like 2-3 with a warrior or ele support (spike)
the fact that although monks can have mend ailment (mend ailment only recieves the protection heal if there's lasting conditions)and mend condition (only target other). Where as Vamperic Bite and Vamperic Touch are exactly the SAME.
If it was only touchers it'd be easy to counter but with spikers in the mix makes it impossible to out heal with touchers.
Nexus Icon
Please don't nerf the touchies 
They're such an easy target, and it's soooo much fun baiting them in Aspenwood.
A typical touchie really cheers me up after a hard day at the office.
They're so persistent; even more so if goaded with "LOL! n00b toucher!"*.
And persistence deserves to be rewarded
*note: this tactic works on pig-headed wammos and sins too, although an enraged sin can be unpleasant if they catch you off guard.
They're such an easy target, and it's soooo much fun baiting them in Aspenwood.
A typical touchie really cheers me up after a hard day at the office.
They're so persistent; even more so if goaded with "LOL! n00b toucher!"*.
And persistence deserves to be rewarded
*note: this tactic works on pig-headed wammos and sins too, although an enraged sin can be unpleasant if they catch you off guard.
Lord Cooper
i dont think touchie feelie rangers are overpowered.. annoying yes but 1 on 1 even my ele can take them down without sweating. i simply outdamage them and over power the healing they get from the vamp skills. they are as susceptible to air spikes as anyone else. if i see one coming at me they get battered before they even reach me
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidney Licker
Quote:
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I take enchantment stripping now :/
Yep. Or a good interrupt, or both. The nice thing about touch rangers is that they've got four slots to fill with whatever they like.
RTSFirebat
Yes always fun to use Enchantment Removal on Mending Warriors
As for touchie builds here the one I use: Offering of Blood Vamp Touch Vamp Bite Life Sipon Plague Touch Throw Dirt Whiring Defence Dogde Most would ask why I don't bring two running skills? Well there is no need two most the time people don't run away or kite me like they should be doing Also Life Sipon is a great skill to take, love to put it on people who are running, then use Dodge to catch up with them. The touch skills and dodge normally finished them off. Then again if Life Sipon is Hex removed or one of the Life stealing skills is shut down its all over.
Tarzan The Chetta
I cant tell you how many touchers I have personally killed with a trapper, & fast cast water mesmer. It all comes down to how you play if you ask me, and how they play. Many of them feel invincible hence why my trapper or mesmer killed them :P Oh ya and a good way to know how to counter em? Make one, so you can see better how they work. Also a touch counter will counter other builds as well so the build vs. build doesent apply so much as implied.
Nvwa Strider
my build for touchy is
Vamp Touch Vamp Bite Plague Touch Grenths Balance / Life Transfer {e} pin down debilitating shot whirling defense dryders defense/ storm chaser pin down and debilitating shot before engaging if needed. whirling to own mm with their own bone fiends or retarded npc's or just for dodging dryders is really usefull against ele, storm chaser for speed and energy grenths to make them first believe they own you and then to own them back big time, its also ranged. life transfer is another RANGED skill to get health and a lot too. and +15 energy staff when needed, danger of this build is you will get out of energy after the fight so you need to back off. Basically you are just playing an assasin, only better....
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvwa Strider
whirling to own mm with their own bone fiends or retarded npc's or just for dodging
I love to put on Whiring Defence and then stand in the middle of a MM bone fiends and watch them all kill themselves against me within a few seconds
I'll have to give your build a go Ncwa, but Offering of Blood is too good a Elite to give up. 0mar
Like I said, the only thing overpowered about touch rangers is the rampant stupidity in ABs and random arenas.
Curse You
Quote:
Originally Posted by TadaceAce
They CAN"T nerf touchers. If they do it be by making touch and bite spells. If they do that there will be a whole new breed of annoying cookie cutter thats a lot more deadly.
So wait, touch rangers aren't "cookie cutter builds"? Last I checked, most people say that they need certain skillls, attribute placements and equipment. Nope, that doesn't seem like a "cookie cutter build", not at all. *sarcasm*
Hmm, are you saying that there is no way to nerf touch rangers, or that you just don't want them to nerf them? If it's the first one, did you miss my previous post? I made a rather reasonable sugestion. It would hardly affect rangers with normal builds, and cut down the use of the touch rangers. eternal pho
meh. I just run away from them.
QuietWanderer
I play a touch ranger all the time. It's a blast. Why nerf it? I like it so much that I often PVE with it. In PvP I've been schooled many a time when playing my touchie. Its ok to lose. Just hit enter and go kick some more butt. You can't win everytime
Btw, I love that cartoon, left me rolling on the floor. |
