Positives/Negatives For GW

Overall, Guild Wars tastes good, but isent very filling. I think thats the best way to put it. I dont see this game being filling until 2006, ill still play it, but only cause its F2P.

I've only played Pve for a few hours but it's clear the environment issues are fairly serious. First of all you can't even slide down a moderate slope. I understand not being able to run up a steep hill but down? Also why does it feel like my character is in a wheelchair. The agility and control feels a little sloppy and why is my character unable to walk over a one and a half foot high wall? I guess hes kind of a phag. maybe thats my fault

IceD'Bear
Beta Tester

There are no tradeskills in GW, and I doubt that they wil ever be, as GW is designed to be a no grind game.
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what game are you comparing it to that it feels sloppy?

as to the wall you cant jump so it is academic

what was on the other side of the wall and could you run around to the other side instead of jumping over it?

Tradeskills are involved in Grinding? New to me.

not being able to jump over a short wall in a video game is academic? what are you smoking dude it's an action-based rpg, not a strategy game. and i'm comparing it to any game you like as far as the lack of immersion in the control. You may not feel it but I suspect others do.

The content has been tested. That's what closed testing is for. Trust me, there's a boatload of content after you reach lvl 20. And it's not more of the same, each missions is successively more difficult than the last, and each presents a different set of challenges. Your character stops improving, but that's totally unrelated to the challenge and diversity of the missions you'll face after you reach the cap. It's about you improving as a player, developing tactics and teamwork. That's a lot more fun and rewarding than crafting some crappy bronze dagger 1000 times, just so you can make a crappy brone short sword.

Movement is a minor issue compared to the lack-of-variety this game is experincing. I feel like I already know whats comin, as far as equipment, and everythin else.

Im gonna compare GW to SWG here.

In SWG, I felt like I had choices, I could combine so many skills and classes (More combinations then GW). I also had choices as far as the game went, with huge diverse (Variety GW, Variety@) planets, and I could handle each one as long as I didnt go to far! Which gave me a whole lotta choices on where to go and what to see. I could craft (Which GW doesent have) I could tend to my harvesters. I could grab a group and attack Lok with no goals in mind, but just for fun, and to collect loot and whatnot, their was no objective, so by the end, no matter what I felt like I accomplished something. I could head over to the cantina and chat with some friends, or work on my music skill. With the latest expansion, I can head out to space, for PVP or for some PVE.

In Guild Wars I can...

1) Run repetive, difficult (Due to morons) missions.

2) Collect some materials, so I can make armor that I already knew was coming

3) Play some factionless PVP, which every game offers.


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No, im not sayin Guild Wars is bad, im sayin that it lacks variety.

Well, some people enjoy that. Personally, I wouldnt craft, but make a livin by collectin materials for the crafters. That gives me a reason to go out in the world and kill monsters outside of missions. Least that gives me some options. Why-not please the crafters? No reason not to if it adds variety.

i've seen enough, i've uninstalled the game. look deep within yourself to find the truth

Last Beta weekend, I just played the pre-searing and enjoyed it so much, not only for its sheer beauty, but because I didn't get killed all that much. Now, after-searing, it's ugly -- I know, I know, there are other parts out there. I'll never see them because I keep dying!

I'm a mes/elem, level 9. I've gotten all kinds of spanky new outfits, added and tried different skill combo's, played with the attributes, etc., etc. But after 8 hours I just have to admit I'm stumped. I have a half dozen quests I just can't finish.

I was hoping I could play this game alone but I'm afraid I've gotten as far as I can solo. I did try grouping last Beta and it just doesn't work for me.

I've been reading these boards since last Beta. I've read a lot of the articles, etc. Should it be this hard? Is there something I'm missing? Or is this game truly only for groups of folks to play?

hep me

Dalia

I want pre-searing back! It's so beautiful and enjoyable... Nothing like the depressing post-searing wasteland. Just walking through the pre-searing environment is a great experience all by itself.

Oh, and:

I want to be able to jump
I want to be able to earn cash without having to blow 2/3 of it on kits
I want less "brick walls" in the missions, ie places that are so horribly overwhelming that you can't go on without gaining a level or 4.

It seems to, that PvP balancing hase gone this BWE. What i see is experience is this:

- Parties without Monks are for sure dead
- Parties with one Monks could win, it depends on how many Monks the other team has.
- Parties with 3 Monks are close to vitory
- Parties with >4 Monks cannot be killed

I played Ranger and Mesmer chars last BWE and had no Problem killing Monks
This BWE i didnt killed one Monk. Backfire for example is useless it deals 119 dmg but Monks can heal themselfs (and their Party for 200 Oo) I saw Monks
attackt by 3 chars and they didnt go down. If u split and attack all 3 Monks u could not deal enough dmg to kill only one Monk. If u didnot split and kill the first one. While u try to kill the second one the third ressurects the first -.- and dont forget there other chars around.

I saw (not only one) fights with 3 Monks on each team. They could have last forever. At the end one team won because the others leave bored.

Am i completlly wrong, or did the balancing realy changed this way?

The game is designed for groups- I'm not sure if you're playing completely solo or with henchmen, but if you're going completely solo, you're unlikely to get out of seared ascalon- the areas are meant for groups of 4 players, meaning one player won't have much luck. If you're using henchmen, there's a few tips that might help:

-don't start attacking a monster if you're trying to lure a few guys at a time- get close enough for them to start attacking you, and run back... if you start attacking, the henchmen will too, and the enemies will stay where they are at

-call targets: The henchmen will follow your called targets and focus on them first. If you don't call, they'll generally just attack whatever enemy they feel like. Target enemy healers first, then enemies that deal large amounts of damage. When fighting charr, I generally go for Martyrs and Shamans first, then Mind Sparks/Chaots, then rangers, then elementalists/warriors.

-find a set of henchmen that you like: especially with the new henchmen, each henchman has their own habits and tendencies. If you have problems with warriors heading in and aggravating too many enemies, try taking ranger/caster henchmen- they'll stay back and attack from a range. If you need someone to absorb more damage, take warrior/ranger henchmen.

If you're still having problems, possibly try to find a good group of human players to group with. Human players will always have the potential to be more skilled than computer-controlled characters, so if the henchmen aren't cutting it for you, playing with other humans might be necessary, at least until you get more experience with the game. After playing in the Alpha for several months, I can get through the BWE content with just henchmen easily, and often with smaller party sizes than are allowed in the areas: due to more experience in the game and the skills that I've gained from that experience.


As for the people who are doubting the amount of content after Sanctum Cay, that mission is intended for characters around level 15-16 or so- not level 20. There's still a LOT of content that isn't available in the BWE's, and it gets more challenging as you go on. If you're wanting a good challenge, head to the temple of ages and take a party into the Underworld(Grenth's area). If you can blow through that easily, I'll hand it to you and say that you're an extremely skilled player, and GW might not be challenging enough for you. However, the majority of groups I've seen go in there haven't even managed to make it past the first couple groups of enemies. However, seeing as most players haven't had the opportunity to play the game for more than a couple weeks spread out over 6 months, that's understandable- if you can master a game within a few days, then the game wasn't all that challenging, was it?

For content, one of the things I've done in the alpha was take a character from level one, through the entire game. We played almost every night for a few hours, and it took us a month to get from the start of the game to completing the last mission- and we didn't do much anything in quests or exploration.

As for leveling, the only difference between level 20 and level 150 is an arbitrary number. I think GW should have just made levels 5x easier to get, and made 100 the max level- that way people would stop complaining about a level 20 cap... you'd be level 100 instead of level 20, wouldn't that give you a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside? GW isn't about leveling in any case- it's about player skill. The game is meant to be challenging, and require group play, especially later on. Sure, people are having problems now, but most everyone has had at most a couple weeks of play spread out over 6 months- if you've mastered a game in that amount of time, the game really didn't require much in the way of skill. I know if I played Starcraft the same amount, I'd still be a n00b at starcraft(of course, I haven't played that for nearly a year, so I am probably back to a n00b level of ability anyhow).


I haven't seen any difficulties really- Monks didn't get any significant buffs since last BWE, and some classes even got better damage-dealing capabilities. Monks are killable, they can just be difficult to kill. Any group with >3 healers will be severely lacking in damage-dealing, and while the battle might take a long time, they shouldn't be able to do much to your team. Eventually you should be able to get some kills and start to work up their death penalty to make it easier to kill them. SoW has been running with 2 healers for GvG and 2-3 in tombs, and haven't had any real difficulties.... we ended up being matched up against a team with 3 healers plus 2 other characters who spammed heal party, so in essence, 5 healers. The first time we matched up against them, we took them out fairly easily, though it took a long time; the second it went the other way, though we were down a healer who had dropped, and lost a second character partway through the match- it still took about 5-6 minutes of battle before they managed to start killing any of our players(with us down a healer), and we did get a couple kills in during that time.

One damage-dealing character should not be able to kill a monk solo: if a damage dealer was greater than a healer, there'd be no point in bringing healers in a match- they wouldn't be able to even cancel out one of the opponents damagers, and you'd be better off bringing a damage-dealer in their place. The key to killing healers is to focus-fire, and have some disruption. If you're having problems with healing, try bringing more anti-casters: mesmers using interrupts/energy denial. Also, bring enchantment removal. Often, it can be easy to finish off a healer if you've got a nice enchantment-removal skill like Rend Enchantments. You start damaging them, the enemy healers will put out a bunch of enchantments to counter that damage. Remove those enchantments, and you should be able to finish off the enemy.

One suggestion- try to bring more interrupts on your team if you have problems with enemy resurrects. It takes 8 seconds to cast Restore Life- there should be no problem at all interrupting it with any character who has an interruption skill. With decent disruption in the form of interrupts, enchantment removal, hexes, and energy denial, healers aren't a big deal. It's just when you try to bash through healing with plain damage that you end up with difficulties due to enemy healing.

Holding off until the game is released until a number of issues are changed/fixed.

Graphics, very Dungeons siege ish so will run on most pc's at med/high settings. No suprises no clanngers as for looks.

Game Play, is the one reason I won't be buying this for now.

Combat is ok but use a ranged character and try to Break a close attack and it leaves you stuck trying to go backwards all the while taking hits.

The Game world leaves a lot to be desired, theres lots of blocking textures and no fall damage, so you cant:

• go Over small rocks
• go up/down inclines
• go Through most bushes
• jump from a cliff to escape an attack

Pet classes have little or no forthought, if you and your pet both die you spawn at a temple like sight, but your pet Stays where you died waiting for you to revive it. So you have to fight all the way back to it to revive it, but the point being with a pet class is the pet takes the agro so theres a chance you will have to get a new pet if you can't get back to yours alive. So then you have to first find a NPC that will take the pet off your hands and then hunt for a new pet to subdue and tame, which are a rare occurance.

Armour item finding, dont like that idea at all. Ok make the items gained Doing a mission for the crafter so you have mobs that will have a good chance or dropping the items you need. In 2 days of gaming I've yet to find Tanned Hide or anyone willing to tell me which mob drops the item I need to use recover on to get it.

lacking mesmer?

Ranged characters don't have damage reduction or anything for being in melee range. If you're wanting to run away from another person and attack from a range, maybe try using skills to slow their movement speed or increase yours.

I wouldn't plan on seeing any of these change after release- how often do you run through a bush, or climb a steep incline when wearing 100 pounds of plate mail? Jumping off a cliff in full armor sounds a lot like suicide. Your character walks on the ground, and can climb moderate(45 degree or so) inclines. You can walk through small rocks, but if a rock goes up to your waste, how often do you climb over a rock that size rather than go around it? Some barriers are in place for a reason- so you can't go someplace that you're not intended to go.

Your pet will resurrect whenever you enter a new area, if you don't resurrect it where it dies. There's no need to get a new pet if you can't manage to resurrect your old one. The gods are kind enough to return you to life, they don't necessarily have the same compassion for some pet that follows you around. However, as soon as you load a new area, your pet is back alive, just as though it never died in the first place.

I'm assuming from your post that you haven't gone through the academy yet to get to post-searing ascalon. The Charr that you'll find fairly quickly after getting there both drop hides, and armors which you can often salvage into hides. I believe there's a collector that will give you hides in return for hunter trophies in pre-searing ascalon, but in general, you don't really need to craft any armor at that point in the game. Later on in the game you'll be swimming in hides, cloth, and most anything else you might need to craft armor- not to mention you can get lots of armor upgrades from collectors for a simple 5 of an item that can be found from nearby enemies.

hmm try breaking any melee contact with mobs, you can't move forward/turn but have to back off then turn and run

Blocking textures for me is a game killer I want Free movement, I don't want a hidden texture that blocks me from and escape route, ok I could take alot of dmage from it but if with 5+ mobs on my tail its preffereable than dying. Or even just running away I get stuck In those invsiable textures so yeah its a game killer for me if not fixed then I wont be buying it.

Pets respawning if I zone elsewhere? What is the pont in that I dont want to have to go back from an instanced zone I'm in just to recover my pet, that is just an annoyance I dont need.

Well that is classic there no crafters before you leave the training area, so yeah I have. With my ranger I was soloing for 2 days and never found one piece of tanned hide from any items I looted from any mob.

Oh and I see this is still in river side, you didn't comment on that

I was with a team with not a single monk (primary or secondary), and we went through 4 rounds in the tombs (before getting wiped very quickly in the HoH). We rolled teams with 1-4 monks with very little difficulty, but that speaks more for the level of competition in the tombs than anything else. You just need a good mesmer to shutdown healing coming from the other side, then spike the healers one by one. They drop pretty fast.

A good combination of shutdown and spike damage will get through almost any healing setup. Monks are no more powerful than they were at any other stage, probably less so than in previous events.

Press X to turn 180 degrees.
Apart from that, what else would you suggest? In real life you cannot run through a solid substance when you are surrounded so I don't see why you should in GW.

5+ mobs?
Well, if the game would've been TOTALLY realistic, you'd be tripping over rocks and fissures. I suppose you haven't played MMO games before.
Also if you are constantly thinking about escaping... Well, I guess your character is failure then.

Then DON'T go back from an instanced zome you are in. Getting your pet killed is not the end of the world, you can still play on.

How about trying to salvage items dropped from foes?

It's only beta, much has yet to be released.

I have found a surprisingly good group of people in the D'Alessio Seaboard. We had one monk and yet we had eight consecutive Victory/Flawless Victory. Since I was just trying PVP for the first time, I took the pre-made Paladin character. When the battle started, a few times I ran with the group but then run arround to attack the enemy from behind. By that time, my group would clash with the opponents so only the monks would be left behind. With Severe Artery and Gash, the Monk was in checkmate: if he would continue to heal his party, he'd die soon. If he heals himself, the party would be without healing. Moreover, my attacks cost adrenaline, not mana, so the monk will eventually run out of mana.
This is for 1 monk party vs. 1 monk party (random group PVP). You have to remember that the more monks the opposite party has, the less attacking power they have left. A mesmer, for once, is a great monk-killer.

hmm I wish people wouldn't make assumptions, yes I have played MMORPGS EQ2/AO so I have an understanding of a Good world layout. So a Ranger is ranged weapons plus pet to hold agro, when it doesnt and you take agro you have no choice but to run.

Which is why I said I had been looking and not found them after 2 days of gaming, so if I can't get items to give to the crafter how am I suppose to get armour to help in those situations, it's all related to minor things in this game that kills it for me.

People are so stuck into the mmo mindset that they are blind to the benefits anything that doesnt follow that model. I dont know how i can say this any other way: gaming, and specifically competitive gaming is something i enjoy very very much. I have for the past 20 years and it isnt ever likely to change. I've seen and done just about everything there is to do in gaming, and so its very difficult to shake the feeling when i play a game that i'm being fed 'more of the same'.

Guildwars is NOT one of those games. It is a completely different approach on the mmo genre, and it is something very sorely needed. I wont say the game is perfect. I have plenty of issues with the game (which i detail in full on the alpha forums), but overall the game is extremely worthwhile. It is a deep game, that involves tons of teamwork, strategy, and raw skill. If you werent blown away when you first played the game, (in the tutorial) i cant say i'm 100% surprised. If you played pvp and ran with public groups and had a bad time, i cant say i'm surprised. However, if you told me you played the game a good 30-50 hours, with your friends, on voice communications and pvp'd in tombs, and did not have a good time, well then i'd be very very surprised. Just like not everyone appreciated the depth of gameplay and strategy of starcraft after playing the campaign, not everyone will grasp or appreciate guildwars. That doesnt change the fact that guildwars remains an incredibly amazing game in a market full of copycats. Above all other games i've seen in the past few years, this one deserves to succeed. If you dont give it a chance and buy it when it comes out, you're only cheating yourself.

i think that monks are too good as well.

monks are not meant to take alot of hits, they are meant to stay behinde the sceens and support. if on char is able to slip by the monks team mates i think that the monk should be as good as dead, unless one of the monks team mates come to assist.

just my thoughs though dont mean much.

Double post content:

I dont see how you say *cant* find hides.(if you are where you say you are)i have more trouble finding iron ignots. Hides are VERY common, if you get any gear from a char break it down, its probly going to a hide.

No, I'm not one of the ones out there that's going to say that I think I need to wait for a review from Gamespot after retail to go out and buy this game. No, I believe the game is awesome and better at beta than many MMORPGs are at retail. That right there, is the problem.

Every WBE I go in and create my RP character, and everytime although there are new wrinkles I play through and get further each time and really get into the game. However, I find myself getting bored with some of the missions after the 3rd time. Can we say "running from charr invasion" ?

In any case, I have tried this go around to only do PVP and am finding out there are some changes which some people noted last WBE (such as the Conjure line of skills) which I find frankly more disturbing. I especially never liked the fact that they added in pre-made characters and allowed for PVP only characters to start out with good gear and highest attributes. It's kind of like saying we have two separate games here. We have Guild Wars Arena and Guild Wars the game. There's something to be said for a player that's invested a few hours actually learning the skills, ... and earning them for that matter, versus a pre-made character that someone just clicked to create.

However, to get back on point, outside of some skill balancing and diffuculty balancing, I don't necessarily think doing this open beta was a great idea. I've technically been playing this game for 6 months now and I can see the "newness" wearing off rather quickly after "binge" playing every month.

Will I play this game a lot ? Of course, I can see though, how this beta has become a double edged sword. On one hand you've drawn more players in, but on the other hands, I think more players will tire of the game sooner.

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see, but I for one will not be doing any PvE until retail which thankfully is only days away.

How else are PvPers going to play PvP until they've unlocked a good amount of skills? I'd imagine this is also a nice introduction to new players on how builds might look. If you've seen some of the trash builds at the GWO forums...did you think they were going to make everyone do tombs and GvG below level 20?


yeah, the players who've invested a bit of time will be a lot more flexible in their character creation, and probably a lot better than the pre-mades.

Thank you, Freyas, for that thoughtful reply. Your advice about henchman is something I tried today and it helped!

And I had to come back and edit my comments here earlier this morning. Although I'm more positive about playing now, I still think these earlier comments hold true:

It's fine that GW is geared towards the PvP-group-of-online-friends-voice crowd. There's a lot of young people who love that. GW should be a great success with them.

I'm surprised, however, that other types of players weren't accomodated as well. Is it so impossible for the game to be programmed to "count" how many people enter an instance, then adjust the difficulty of play to that?

I'd like to add that I DO enjoy playing games in groups at times but that GW's interface makes it difficult to meet like-minded players. (Hearing chat from players you can't see is so disorienting.) A pity there aren't taverns, for example, where you could get to know people first before committing to running a mission with them. Would that be so difficult to include?

I truly admire the attempt to get beyond the level/crafting grind. The skill system is so interesting and challenging. The graphics are incredible. The staff seems to truly listen and incorporate suggestions. I wish the folks at GW all the best.

Dalia

PINGER

you can get hides by salvaging worn belts from bandits
grawl gear gets hides also

Pinger, if you don't like the game then don't play. I don't see why you are still posting on this forum if you're so disgusted with it.

The people playing the betas and posting here are enjoying it.

Another bad thing.

Abuse of the mini-map. I was in a group where half of them thought it was great fun to scribble all over it, make it all white, so we could not tell where to go and show each other.

I agree full steel plate armor and 5 foot drop don't mix, but sprinting full speed while not paying attention and slaming into solid air rather than dying from a fall is rather pathetic. Also: If you'd die from a 5 foot jump because of full armor, well, then yoou die from a 5 foot jump! All they have to do is take mass/weight fromulas into the mix. Other games do that, and it wouldn't be hard to transfer it to items rather than armor being just a deffence and appearance modifier.
Another point: leather doesn't weigh as much as plate steel. If your the wearing sterotypical barbarian style leather straps and loin cloth ordeal, a ten foot jump might not kill you, if you've got good dexterity. So if I'm wearing breeches and have a few daggers rather than a huge battle axe, I'd appreciate being able to leap.

I like the level 20 cap. It really gets tiring being killed in every MMOG you play because some guy is level 375 because he got the game the day after it came out, while I'm a level 18. Idealy, I'd play a game where, yes you gain skills and abilities with experience, and can handle different types of weapons that require more skill (ie. crossbow=easy longbow=takes more skill), or you get a tad stronger, but being a skinny little human with un-refined muscles and having 400 dmg attacks bare-handed just because you play every day for 12 hours is insane.
If you can't play worht crap but you beat ecpert players by sheer level difference, the game has a reserved seat in the nearest trash can.

This game has a lot of potential, but the small issues that need to be cleared up, are the ones that are most likely going to be left pretty much just as they are in the betas. The solution? Make a fee-free MMOG that isn't afraid to spend several years in development/testing, and that ties together all the little details that bring flesh to a game, then I'll be your first customer. Guild Wars is an awesome game that needs to wait a bit more before it come out.
another thing: More unique races. I don't know why they even let you be humans at all. Where are the half-lizards, the angelic/astral ype creatures, the monstrous humanoid forms, where are the goblinoids, where are the novel player races? Sure, guild wars has unique NPCS and mobs, but I want to play as a GW exclusive character race. Elves, men, half human half-(insert species here (ie. half-elves, orcs, hlaflings...) get repetative.
I'm worried about character creation. I was disapointed with the Sims/NWN/classic style head-torso-leg system and hope GW does something less lego-like. I want to be able to lenghten the nose here, twist this corner of the mouth like so... off set the eyes... bring out the eye lashes...; that sort of thing. I'm not saying fully blown digital rendering editor, I just want to have tweaking ability. just the smallest things can bring out a character.

Sounds like EQ2 - doesn't bring anything to those dead characters tho

This sounds like a normal conversation in a lot of the pvp games ive played lmao

but it did make me LOL for real

Double post content:


The pet dieing thing is a complete pain in the ass and they need to change this.
If you lose yourp pet in a mission. you have NO guarantee of covering that ground ever again when you go back with a new group
there has to be a way to fix this

Triple post content:

Cost of salvage and ID kits is ridiculously high.

need more storage space for your stuff

some crafting items are NOT available and therefore it is impossible to make some of the more advan sets
IE STEEL ingots and linen

saw people all day and night long willing to pay a fortune for one or two..no one has any

I have alot of storage actually. No steel ingots? I got 10 in 4 hours

That was the only negative about last BWE: spending 5 hours at D'alessio Seaboard, Crying For Group. No one was there, not in Euro or in Int district. And teaming with henchmen is like trying to break down a wall with a stick: nearly impossible. I hope that after release tons of people will play this game, so I won't end up lonely at some faraway Town.

@Pinger:
Either I'm lucky or I'm just good, but in the first 3 hours of the BWE, I found so many modifiers AND runes that I just gave them away. I was able to craft a Geomancer AND Aeromancer armorset for my Ele/Mes. Just "hunt" for hours, get the ID and expert Salvage Kit and pray for items.

you make steel from iron

Honestly isn't this thread, the way the question is posed, just a creative way to ask the infamous "Level 20 cap" question....AGAIN?

I've had just the opposite experience, but that was mainly because I have invited all my friends from other games and elsewhere to play. They're mature and organized so we can have fun without the kind of pick-up group hassles you're describing here.

In fact, one of the things I like about it is basically being able to turn off Local chat and not have to worry about anyone else except the people I want to play with.

I can't stop seeing all the breakdancing, watusi-dancing, lapdancing naked people, but I can at least forget about them once we leave the outpost or city.

Odeko Resci

Is this true?