A NEW Proffession (IE: Actually Thought Out!)

Yeah, Yeah, most of you are shruderring at the thought of another profession idea.

But how about this: An Unarmed Profession!

The interesting thing about this class is that rather than equipping weapons, you merely select fighting styles (IE: F1 would switch to Kicking, F2 would switch to Punching.)

NOTE: You'll note I have 2 primary attributes. This is because I cannot decide which would be more appropriate. Agility seems like the natural choice, but some of the skills in the "Specialty Strikes" section seem to be appropriate for a Primary Atrribute as well. Please address which would make a better primary attribute in your replys, and please state your reason for thinking so.

Classname: Brawler

---Primary Attribute: Agility
-For each point into this attribute, the Chance to Evade is increased by (either one or two) percent, and the speed of the character is increased by the same percent. (IE: A Brawler with 10 points into Agility would either have a 10% chance of evasion or a 20% chance of evasion, and would move 10% faster than other classes or 20% faster, depending on which is more balanced)

Some skills here would be similar to some Ranger skills in that they increase the ability to evade, but in different ways than a Ranger's would.
Examples:
(10 Mana) Blinding Speed (Elite): Stance. All foes adjacent to the Brawler are Blinded for (3-15) seconds, and the Brawler moves 30% faster for (7-20) seconds. 40% chance of failure with an Agility level of less than four.
(10 Mana) Swift Maneuvers: Stance. The Brawler will evade ALL attacks centered on him, but expends 5 mana each time he evades an attack. This enchantment ends when the Brawler's mana reaches 0.

---Attribute: Kickboxing
- A Brawler with points into this attribute gains enhanced efficiency when using the Kicking fighting style. It also improves the effectiveness of some of his skills.
Examples:
(4 Adrenaline) Snapkick: If this attack hits, the target is weakened for (3-12) seconds.
(8 Adrenaline) Knee Breaker: If this hits a weakened foe, the target is now crippled for (5-15) seconds, and if it hits a Crippled foe, the target is knocked down for (1-5) seconds.
(10 Mana) Roundhouse: All targets adjacent to the Brawler are hit, and take an additional (1-10) damage.

---Attribute: Brawling (Subject to change; I just didn't want to use Boxing a second time)
-A Brawler with points into this attribute gains enhanced efficiency when using the Punching fighting style. It also improves the effectiveness of some of his skills.
Examples:
(5 Adrenaline) Sucker Punch: If this attack hits a foe with more than 50% life, he suffers from exhaustion for (3-17) seconds.
(6 Adrenaline) Uppercut: If this hits an exhausted foe, the foe becomes dazed for (3-16) seconds.
(4 Adrenaline) Spinfist: This attack cannot be "Evaded". If this attack hits a foe who attempted to evade it, this attack deals an additional (5-25) damage.
(4 Adrenaline) Hammerfist: This attack cannot be blocked. If this hits a foe that attempted to block it, the foe is knocked to the ground for 2 seconds and takes an additional (7-17) damage.

---Primary Attribute: Specialty Strikes
-No inherent effect. These are the eccentric and often backhanded attacks a good Brawler keeps in his arsenal of attacks. Additional points into this trait increase the effectiveness of some of the Brawlers skills.
Examples:
(5 Mana) Bodyslam: If this attack hits, target foe is knocked down for (1-6) seconds. This spell causes Exhaustion.
(4 Adrenaline) Crush: If this attack hits a knocked down foe, it deals an additional (4-30) damage, and causes Bleeding.
(10 Mana) Firestrike: Enchantment Spell. The next attack preformed by the Brawler lights his target aflame for (1-5) seconds.
(10 Adrenaline) Neck Breaker (Elite): If this hits a foe below 33% life, it instantaneously kills the foe.



Personally, this would be a VERY fun class to play, but would make a somewhat poor combination with a Warrior. (Well, I don't know...some of the Warriors tactics abilities could compliment this character nicely, and vice versa, I suppose.) Please give me your feedback, in a non-retarded manner, for example:

Ur st00pid irishman. Ur d!ck is sm4ll. OMG WTF BBQ!!!

Guess people realy want that hand-to-hand monk type too...

Very Very VEry interesting idea.. just some questions i will raise (because i feel like it =P)

First off - Armour. this i think is highly important as i notice youi have energy requirments similar to a ranger - however no expertise to keep these down. on the other hand you have a lot of a adreneal skills, so prehaps a min energy of 20 with 3 pips of regen, and a max of 30 with 3 pips would be balanced?

also Weponary - there would need to be some form of wepaonry, even if it was only gloves or something similar. prehaps Hand and Shin pads?

in any case.. very nicley thought out - i find the idea he could apply Exhaustion to an opponet very interesting.. Br/Mes? hmm.. food for thought.

i think if you go into what types of armour and/or weaponry he would have this could be a very cool idea.

Kudos!

thats cool idea , must a took a while to think out

I think that gloves for hands and boots for feet for the weapons (No kickboxing with boxing gloves). As for armor I have no idea what would fit. I like the class though.

poor mans warrior >.> OH and air spike eles with say neckbreaker! ;b

what about a another non-weapon using class but uses more skills rather then fighting styles?

Like "Psychic" which uses skills to knockdown, disable, confuse, and redirect damage and stuff...and he can take over enemy pets!!! havea big energy using skill that in PvE can make an enemy fight for you (like a minion) and in PvP it removes the players from their team for....60 seconds lets say, and they can be targeted from their former allies and target their former allies too.

something like that anyways...

All of those things can already be done except taking over enemy characters which is something that AN has already stated that they will never let anybody do.

well i guess your wrong then....because there are plenty of necro skills that take over minions.

and the PvP one i was talkign about doesnt actually take a person over...it removes them and leaves them "teamless" for 60 seconds, so he is pretty much "confused"

and for the record:

Verata's Gaze causes hostile undead allies to lose their masters and if they are masterless then they go under your control, as well Malign Intervention causes a masterless minion to be risen from an enemy if that enemy dies with the hex on them.

Masterless = Teamless

It would have to have an attribute that every class can use, because if only the brawler can H2H, then that is selfish. And would have to get used to all other classes running around with out weapons d=

An interesting thing to note, since the characters have no unarmed combat animation whatsoever.

If they implemented any kind of hand-to-hand combat they would have to produce animations of all the punches, kicks, flips and whatever for each and every class.

Quite frankly, I disagree. I don't see how, say, an Elementalist or a Necromancer would be trained in Hand to Hand combat, unless they were also trained as either a Warrior or a "Brawler". I mean, quite honestly, the Elementalist looks like he could bench maybe 50 pounds....there's no way he'd naturally know how to hand to hand. As for Warriors, Warriors are given Weapons training, not necesarilly Hand to Hand.

I like the idea of a hand fighter profession, i think they need to add 1, maybe 2 more melee classes to balance it out a bit, since now theres 1 melee class and 5 ranged professions

Personally, I'd love to see a Wrestler/grappler/martial artist style profession, both because i think it would be interesting and because of my Hulk Hogan obsession.

Perhaps a martial arts based profession would work better though, maybe based on some interesting styles like Jeet Kun Do.

As neat as it would be, it just doesn't it in with the overall atomosphere of GuildWars, also I don't know how well a kickboxer would do punching the hell out of platemail.

nice idea, but u would need hand - to hand type weapons, like claws, or something like that, and u could always attach claws to ur feet

i love the idea of what the skills may look like, "Spinning Kick" - i'd love to see a character do that on some1. I'd deffinately switch to that, it would be like controlling myself - i do Taekwon do, martial arts character would rule.

as for armor, i know what would be perfect, just need to modify it to make it less of a rip off.

This is for female as it was the only pic i could find on google
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5034/afmonk4yh.jpg

Thats not the point though, if a monk can use a bow, an ele can use H2H. why do you think we have tons of rangers/mo/necros running around with swords.

not bad. i usually shudder for threads like these, but this one is not badly thought out. offcourse, neck breaker is a bit over the top and should be toned down.

flavor wise however i have trouble seeing how such a fighter will beat a swordman. maybe extra armor...
another thing is that see this more as an extra variant to the warrior then a seperate class. this class would however be heavily abused as a runner.

they will beat the warrior by being more agile, and quicker at attacking. since they use fists id imagine they would attack with both fists.

on a personal note, how do u like the idea for the armor i posted before?

I am all for this class, but as was said, it will be the perfect running class. This game needs more melee professions.

Imp i think he means that a pure ranger not having Brawler as second proffesion isnt trained to do hand to hand only when they take brawler they will be able too right ?

Sounds like the DiabloII assassin class to a degree?

A couple of quick things covered up:

One: What I meant in my statement about Elementalists bieng incabale of H2H:

A Necromancer would never in his life recieve H2H training (ie:swords, hammers, etc). However, a Necromancer who also trained as a Warrior WOULD recieve such training (I play such a class). Similarly, an Elementalist would have no IDEA how to maim someone with naught but thier own bodies, while an Elementalist who recieved training from a Brawler master would be quite capable of applying both his Brawler and Elementalist skills to make him a more then formidable opponent.
Also, in you example of a Monk wielding a Bow: That monk would HAVE to be a ranger secondary, wouldnt he? Otherwise, even with a bow that deal 16-28 or whatever the max is damage, he would still deal miniscule amounts. Am I correct?

Two: How a man with Bare Fists would be able to fight a man wearing Platemail or the likes:

Weapons that replace an armor slot. The two weapon types would be Gloves and Boots, and while they are equipped in the weapon slot, the corresponding armor slot would be unusable. (Example: a Brawler could be wearing his Leather gloves of fortitude and his leather boots of fleshrending, but he would only get the prefix, suffix, and damage bonuses from ONE of the two, but he would still get the defensive bonuses from both. A brawler secondary would merely enhance the gloves/boots of the set of armor he is wearing [Vampiric Bonelace Gloves]) They would start out as just plain weapons, similarly to warrior weapons, that only enhance the damage you deal. However, they could be upgraded with Toe and Heel additions (fingertip palm and additions for gloves). Toe additions would change the physical properties of the attack (whether an attack would deal Slashing or Crushing damage, or if it would increase Bleeding or Deep Wound durration) and the Heel would enchance the magical part of the weapon (IE: If your attacks steal mana/health, deal Fire damage, or if it would increase enchantment duration)

Some examples of unupgraded Brawler armor and Weapons: (Note: The items listed here would be the equivalant of 1.5 or 15k armor)

- Reinforced Leather Gloves: 15-25 Damage. +70 Defense, +10% defense against Physical attacks, -15% against elemental.
NOTE: Brawler Armor of the 'Reinforced Leather' all get the +75 Defense, +10 defesne against physical attacks, -15% against elemental. Similarly, all Gloves will deal the same amount of damage if forged at the same level crafter, so that Leather gloves and Silken gloves both made at Marhaans Grotto will both deal 15-25 damage.

- Hard Leather Boots: 10-30 Damage. +70 Defense, +15% against Piercing damage.
NOTE: Same as above note.
Other sets not listed here:
Tatoos: 65 Defense, +15% defense against elemental attacks.
Silken: 60 Defense, + to mana (varies per piece)

Here are some examples of upgraded weapons:

Vampiric Hard Leather Boots of Fortitude

Cruel Hand Tatoos of Warding
So on and So forth.


3: Why it would not become a running class:

Huh. Really, I don't know why it matters if it becomes a running class. No one complains about how W/R are the ultimate running class as of the moment. So what if they turn it into an efficient way to get from Beacons to Droknor? Good for them. So they want to waste thier time becoming a taxi service.

Sweet life. "All on board for Droknors! 3k a person, to be paid at completely random intervals!" Thats an exact quote, boys and girls. Only on Guild Wars.

Edit: Forgot to say 2 things:
1: Thanks for the images, Erace! I appreciate your help.
2: If I forgot anything, please feel free to tell me so. Also, please continue to post your insightful criticisms, but give me some credit here, and remember: A man learns not only from his mistakes, but from his accomplishments as well.

This class doesn't have to be unarmed.
then people will complain about it being a lot cheaper then other classes, thus you have to spend less money on the class to become stronger in firepower so to speak thus it can't deal as much damage else it would not be fair.

how about putting in spiked/knuckle weapons.

Make Agility primary, seems better since that's quite something to have.

get rid of or nerf Neck breaker, it's overpowered, 33% is too much.

as you have it now you can just evade about all attacks and deal enough damage in the meantime with attacks to get someone below or near 33% and then you'll most likely have enough adrenaline to use neck breaker instantly.
thus being able to kill any class while you yourself hardly take damage, or just being the best tank ever.

The class being unarmed would be stupid, as i wouldn't see can how an unarmed character could go up to a warrior in platemail and kil him, unless there were skills that could almost reverse the warriors power, but this would realy outbalance the proffessions maybe they should be able to equip two small dagers?

I agree with the pointlessness of this class - an unarmed person simply can not punch a person in plate and have any hope of injuring them. Wrist locks and such are doable, but only against a human, so non-humanoids would be nearly impossible to fight - wristlock on Glint? It simply isn't feasible. To perform the type of wrist-loack and such on non-humans would at the least involve a great deal of study of their anatomy, and would frequently be impossible for some types of creature - a human can't oppose the power of a troll or dragon.

The reason weapons work so well is their ability to increase penetration power with points and edges, to increase velocity of contact and to improve the damage dealt through leverage (swung weapons), energy storage (bows and crossbows) and momentum (mass-based attacks). An unarmed perrson has 0 chance of facing an armoured non-human foe 8 times his/her size (and 8 is easy to hit - double length, width and height and you have 8). When 1000 pounds of drake is coming for you you'd better have weapons or magic, your fists in gloves won't do it. It's a cute idea for PvP, as there it might be doable, but it just isn't possible in PvE.

I think that for a new class to exist there has to be a need for one - at the moment I cannot see any class that needs a new counter, so you would have to introduce two new classes, and i doubt there are two extra classes you could added without skill overlap (and the potential for unbalanced builds).

All a h2h specialist would be is a warrior with different skills - so why not simply add the skills to the warrior class in the expansion? I have yet to see any new class that wouldn't just be a handful of skills added to an existing class.

What I would like to see introduced are skills that are linked to armour (and vice versa), like a 'thiefs' set for mesmers that allow them to use more spells like arcane thievery (like stealing weapons or offhand items temporarily/adding their damage to attacks) or an adrenaline based 'agility' warrior skill that improves speed & evasiveness based on how low the armour class is.

Tha's a very cool idea. So far star wars galaxies is the only MMO, I know to have a brawler proffesion. Brawler was like warrior. You had Unarmed, Pikes, 1H Swords, 2H Swords. I do like this idea and it is very cool, brawlers dodging a lot would get a annoying though. And I do think we need more weapons. Maybe not weapon names, but like 1Handed, and 2Handed Swords, Spears, Great Swords, etc.

I thought of that idea too.. h2h combat type character with like maybe some crippling effects or whatever. Also I was thinking of maybe a class that uses more "exotic" weaponry (katanas, staff, that freakin blade in crouching tiger..., things like that).

One class I'd be for is a BARD. Party buffer... maybe similar effect of a spirit (all allies in range get _____). Not sure what kind of weapons if anything they would use. I haven't quite thought it out yet.

Already, that class is in for a nerf - Neckbreaker as an instant kill lol ?

Hmm..if you could couple this with the much sought after "Assasin" class, then you could do some deadly damage. I think to improve neckbreaker, the foe must be suffering from weakness, as well as be under 33% health for it to be able to kill them. I mean, you are still at the same strengths, but you just have less life, thats not just going to make you weaker. And also put a cap on it. Like: "Foe must be below 33% max health and suffering from weakness. Neckbreaker's damage cannot exceed half your maximum health."

Man... So many people don't understand that it's a FANTASY game. Ok, mabey in real life nobody could hurt a Warrior in Platemail with his fists (then again, I fail to see how a sworrd coul, too.), but it sure as hell worked in Final Fantasy XI.

"But zOMG! It's not realistic! U R STUPID!" and neither is an arrow being able to hurt someone in platemail or poison them through it, but who's counting?

This is a great profession idea. For those of you asking why we don't just add the skills to a Warrior... It's because we only have 1 melee class, 4 ranged casters, and 1 ranged attacker. Why didn't they just add all those caster skills into one super caster class? Because that would be stupid and overpowered and the game would lack variety. I don't know about you, but I'm very displeased that Warrior is the only primary melee class.

As a black belt ,I must say,many of those things are stupid.

How do you set somebody on fire with a punch? Light your fists on fire? If this was a spell it would probably have to be set the target on fire for 1-3 seconds and you would be set on fire aswell.

Exhastion is not a condition but it acts like one so that would be stupid exauhsting someone else.

Bodyslam??? 6 seconds of knockdown??? WTF?

Neckbreaker, it should have you do 30-70 extra damage if the target has less than 33% health.

Round kicks don't hit multiple people. Hook kicks and heel kicks do.

IMO this class doesn't fit in with the other classes.

Umm, you obviously have never used a bow. My longbow will punch right through armour (have tested it) and if I poisoned the arrow it would most definitely deliver it.

No, we have a melee attacker, a ranged attacker, a counter class (mesmer), a heling class (monk), a curse/debuffing class/minion class (necro) and an offesive spellcaster (elementalist). Lumping the 4 casters together isn't sensible, they are quite different.

We also have essentially 3 warrior classes: Sword, Axe and Hammer.

Right... through solid DELDRIMOR steal 4 inches thick?

Anyways, that's not the point. This game isn't meant to be realistic, so what's it matter? Personaly, I've never seen a pet Moa peck through solid steel to make a warrior bleed.

Um.. no. They all cast spells, so they are caster classes. By your logic on the sword, hammer, axe, that would mean we have 12 caster classes as opposed to 3 warrior classes? Wow, even better!

Armour wasn't 4 inches think. The thickest armour was for jousting, which was too heavy to be worn normally. I don't have the figures before me, but I recall about 3mm (1/8th inch) being the thickest portions of a great helm, and most armour being less than 2mm in thickness (around 1.8mm on the chest for a heavy armour).

Not surprisingly, with a bodkin point even a hunting longbow at 70 pounds draw will punch through most armours with a direct hit. Chain armour is particularly bad - an arrow views chain armour as a loosely connected set of holes.

Um.. Mabey you should re-read what you replied to?

I said you could not pierce through Platemail and poison somebody, you stated that it pierces right through armor (so I'm assuming you are talking about all armor), so I ask if you can pierce through 4 inches of solid Deldrimor Steel. Obviously you cannot because it does not exist, which proves my point.


It is a fantasy game and there is nothing wrong with somebody punching somebody wearing 4 inches of steel and doing damage.

The character is a cool idea, and pretty well thought out, but it's almost a worthless secondary class. Any spellcaster that secondaries to this class would become a front-line fighter, asking to die very quickly. If a warrior secondaries to this class, one or the other profession becomes completely worthless, as the warriors skills all depend on using a sword, hammer, axe, or shield. Same goes for the ranger, as the majority of their skills involve using a bow. Plus, if the armor doubles as the weapons, and non-primary brawler wouldn't be able to use the weapons of the class. That leaves the monk, which could work nicely, but could overpower other classes. Overall, good concept, layed-out and planned-out nicely, but I don't think it would work in Guild Wars.

Ah, I assumed, apparently erroneously, that you hadn't gone and jumped topic on me. You also edited it to say DELDRIMOR, after I had posted.

No, arrows do not punch through 4 inches of steel. Really, nothing much does, so it would be pointless. I'm all for fantasy, but if you are using humans and such, the physics should roughly equate to ours. If you want to visualise your guys wearing 3000 pounds of armour (which is an esimate of the weight at 4 inch thickness) that's fine, but it is so unreal that it defies logic. Add to that the fact that nobody could penetrate that, so your swords would need to be about 40 times as massive with cosiderably more force to penetrate it.

Worlds (even fantasy worlds) need to be consistent - they have humans and human style armours and weapons - which only function against one another at certain values of force, mass, density etc...; as a result they follow logical physics resulting from it.

Actually, all the nay-sayers out there are basically wrong.

Those who say its unrealistic for a caster to take Brawler as a secondary, I simply point out all the IW Mesmers, E/W Sword PBAoE, Necrowarriors, Mo/W Smiters, etc.

For those who say its unrealistic for a warrior to secondary to this class, I'll point out that many class combos with warrior sometimes use just Strength and Tactics, and the armor of the warrior.

For those who say its stupid for a Ranger to secondary to a Brawler, I point to all the sword and axe wielding rangers who use preps and spirits to make melee attack deadly. Apply Poison on gloves? Hoo-rah.

A simple solution to the problem of the armor doubling as the weapons is that all armors in the hand and glove slot of ALL the classes have weapon properties (i.e. damage and prefix/suffix), but you need to be of the Brawler class (primary or secondary) to use them as weapons. Also, the Brawler's primary armor, being purpose built, have the best damage range, with warrior second, then ranger, then the four caster classes.

And even though the warrior has three weapon skill lines, he's still a warrior, his abilities and job define his role, not his choice of weapon. If we were to follow the logic of a skill defining the class, then each type of Elementalist would be four separate classes, etc., etc.

Oh and for all those people who say the idea of a brawler/mystical kung-fu guy taking on a Dragon/plate-armored warrior/etc. is unrealistic, I say its unrealistic for ANY class to take on a Dragon or any of the weird creatures that ANet has come up with. I don't remember St. George or the Crusaders taking on Charr...

Duh! Its a game.

/rant