Anti-"Freeloader" Extremists? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:02 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

See, this is where the problem lies. You may assume that people leave for an emergency, but experience has taught most Guild Wars players in recent times that many people like to go AFK and watch TV while you get their character gold and experience, not to mention finishing a mission for them.

Yes, it could be possible that they have had a crisis and need to leap out of their seat immediately and tend to it, but ask yourself what is more likely; A serious crisis, or some snot-nosed lazy punk who can and will idle the mission without having to do a single thing.

Simple logic, and some help from Occam's Razor.

that's exactly my point....I assume it was an emergency because I WANT to assume it was an emergency...I know full well that more than likely it was not...whether or not it was an emergency doesn't change that they aren't there....my thoughts on this have been transposed into an "emergency"...when in reality I simply assume they have something better to do...whether it be an emergency or not I just don't care. I DO NOT care if someone freeloads...it doesn't effect my game..it doesn't change my game...it doesn't take away from my fun....I see no point in caring about it

Darkest Dawn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Ohio, USA

W/Mo

11 Jul 2005 at 18:05 - 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

This is the crux of your problem right here. You (and others) continue to justify things by saying RL is more important than the game. This is absolutely true. But then somehow you extend that to "I am more important than the other players", which is absolutely false.

To me (since you consistently seem to think it's a valid argument to say you do things one way so everyone else should too), once I group with people, I enter an unspoken social contract, that binds me to care about them at least enough to minimize my inconvenience to them and explain myself if I can't avoid it.

If you have to stop 15 minutes into the mission to pick up your kid from soccer, nobody has a problem with you prioritizing your kid over the game. What people have a problem with is you entering into a mission in the first place. You shouldn't have joined in and screwed over the rest of the group when you knew you'd have to pick up your kid. If it's an unforeseeable problem like your kid cutting themselves, NOBODY EVER SAID the game should outprioritize that, so don't act like that's what this is about.

You, Kongar, as well as others have nailed it on the head.

I take my commitments, even with online gamers, seriously. My word is my bond. I tend to complete what I start. However, I realize that things can come up.

When you agree to join a mission, you are telling 7, or whatever, people they can count on you. REAL PEOPLE!

I have no problems with a quick bathroom break, or other such issue. Though, proper planning can reduce the frequency, at least somewhat, of these things.

And yes, emergencies must be taken care of immediatly.

I communicate with my family. Thus, dinner, soccer, romance

, or whatever doesn't catch me by supprise. Though in the case of the latter.... I'm hitting the "X in the upper right corner."

In conclusion, noone is saying to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just to try to plan,communicate(both with household and game players) and use common sense.

Ellestar

Munchking

Join Date: Mar 2005

Russian Federation, Moscow

Ladder to Hell (ATM playing with Rus Corp)

11 Jul 2005 at 18:06 - 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

The thing about eating is, it will only take a person a good 5-10 minutes to eat. If my food is ready and it's getting cold, then who cares about your game or my game? If the game takes so much importance in your life as to have it attempt to damage your kidneys, starve or dishearten you, what's the point of playing it?

Not waiting on other people is selfishness and impatience.

If I'm in Fissure of Woe and we have been playing for an hour and I want to eat, then I'm going to eat.

So, there are 8 people in Fissure. Imagine what will happen if EVERYONE will make a 7,5 minute breaks on average every game hour. 7,5*8=60 minute break per hour! NOONE WILL PLAY AT ALL!!! But it's ok, everyone should be a selfish prick like you and all of us will have fun waiting for each other instead of playing.
Note, in most cases it's not a game that is important, it's a free time of other peoples. If you're taking a 7,5 minute break, you're wasting 7,5*7=52,5 minutes of other players' time. Sure, when people are angry that you're wasting an hour of their time, they're selfish and impatient... Or maybe it's you who is selfish because you don't want to eat before or after a game session?

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

11 Jul 2005 at 18:06 - 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

that's exactly my point....I assume it was an emergency because I WANT to assume it was an emergency...I know full well that more than likely it was not...whether or not it was an emergency doesn't change that they aren't there....my thoughts on this have been transposed into an "emergency"...when in reality I simply assume they have something better to do...whether it be an emergency or not I just don't care. I DO NOT care if someone freeloads...it doesn't effect my game..it doesn't change my game...it doesn't take away from my fun....I see no point in caring about it

Then obviously, we play the game for different reasons.

Personally, I do missions with players instead of running with henchmen because I enjoy the teamwork involved, the thrill of completing a goal together, learning about one-another's play style, learning abouth their preferred skills and tactics, et ceterata.

If you honestly don't care about the other team members, and don't care if they go AFK and/or drop out completely, then why not just complete the whole game with henchmen? It's do'able.

Talesin Darkbriar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

California - irrigated desert...

The Myrmidon

E/N

11 Jul 2005 at 18:07 - 205

Hey Algren...whats the deal?
I'm typically a bit cranky on monday's too, but you are out of bounds today.
I understand that you are trying to make a point, and that it is debated...but to flog an equine that if not already deceased is in mortal peril of succuumbing to injury...What the hell does ANY of this have to do with the OP???!!!

Get a grip man!

Talesin

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:09 - 206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

conveniantly left out the part where I said "as I would hope yours are"...but if you had left that part in it wouldn't have benfitted your argument...so I can certainly understand why you'd leave out the part where I draw a parrallel between the importance of my life and the importance of yours.

I left it out because it wasn't the point. Just because you expect others to do the same does not change the fact that your are prioritizing yourself over others. The part I quoted is sufficient to say you are acting as though you are more important.

Quote:

I did read the OP...you haven't read(or maybe you just didn't understand) any of my posts....I simply stated that I just don't care. if you want to leave go ahead...it doesn't affect me at all. I simply choose to believe that you had an emergency and had to leave...because I honestly don't know why you left...nor do I care to figure it out. It's just a game...the outcome of which has no bearing on my life at all...

Which is where you inserted your own imaginary concept of what "the issue" is. The issue is whether or not it is proper courtesy to avoid taking up other people's time for things like making food and bathroom breaks. Just because you start arguing about hypothetical emergency situations (with nobody to argue against I might add) does not change what "the issue" is.

I have NFC why you think anybody cares that you often take the attitude that someone who randomly afks must simply be dealing with a RL "emergency". How you choose to deal with these situations is another "not the issue". We are debating whether or it is proper courtesy on the AFK'ers part.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:09 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Then obviously, we play the game for different reasons.

Personally, I do missions with players instead of running with henchmen because I enjoy the teamwork involved, the thrill of completing a goal together, learning about one-another's play style, learning abouth their preferred skills and tactics, et ceterata.

If you honestly don't care about the other team members, and don't care if they go AFK and/or drop out completely, then why not just complete the whole game with henchmen? It's do'able.

I prefer to play with other members...I enjoy strategy and tactics...and value input from the other members.

But I'm also fully aware that a monkey could beat this game...so if you lose a member it doesn't matter...hell in most cases you can lose half the party and it won't matter. I rarely go AFK during missions or map out during quests....if I start it I complete it....but I could care less if someone in the party leaves or goes AFK...it's not of high importance to me.

MuKen: it's absolutely not proper courtesy....but what effect does it have on your life? what makes you waste energy caring?

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

11 Jul 2005 at 18:10 - 208

LOL, Algren! I don't get enough of a chance to play as it is. Someone ditching the group in the middle of a mission simply stinks. It effects my fun and enjoyment of the game a lot. Does it ruin my day (heading this one off at the pass)? NO. Does it make me want to hurt myself and others? NO. Does it disappoint me and irritate me? YES.

I have enough real life things going on. I want to actually have FUN when I play. When I choose to play with RL humans rather than henchies, I lay aside my RL issues (barring emergencies---headed that one off too), to have a good time. For me, I assume that others with whom I group are there to have a good time. I try to make that happen for them and, not coincidentally, for me as well.

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

11 Jul 2005 at 18:11 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I prefer to play with other members...I enjoy strategy and tactics...and value input from the other members.

But I'm also fully aware that a monkey could beat this game...so if you lose a member it doesn't matter...hell in most cases you can lose half the party and it won't matter. I rarely go AFK during missions or map out during quests....if I start it I complete it....but I could care less if someone in the party leaves or goes AFK...it's not of high importance to me.

That's all well and good, but the very fact that two threads exist on this topic means that a good deal of the players do in-fact care if someone goes AFK and whatnot. This isn't about you.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:15 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

That's all well and good, but the very fact that two threads exist on this topic means that a good deal of the players do in-fact care if someone goes AFK and whatnot. This isn't about you.

am I not allowed to offer an opinion on a topic addressed to a public forum? My opinion is that I don't care...just as your opinion is you do care...I respect that....

Aniewel: if one person leaving drastically changes your game...then I can certainly understand why you'd be upset about it.

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

11 Jul 2005 at 18:16 - 211

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

LOL, Algren! I don't get enough of a chance to play as it is. Someone ditching the group in the middle of a mission simply stinks. It effects my fun and enjoyment of the game a lot. Does it ruin my day (heading this one off at the pass)? NO. Does it make me want to hurt myself and others? NO. Does it disappoint me and irritate me? YES.

I have enough real life things going on. I want to actually have FUN when I play. When I choose to play with RL humans rather than henchies, I lay aside my RL issues (barring emergencies---headed that one off too), to have a good time. For me, I assume that others with whom I group are there to have a good time. I try to make that happen for them and, not coincidentally, for me as well.

Amen. If I wanted to mission with someone who did naff-all but sit back and horde gold/experience while I did all the work, I'd take Alesia with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

am I not allowed to offer an opinion on a topic addressed to a public forum? My opinion is that I don't care...just as your opinion is you do care...I respect that...

I didn't say that you're not entitled to an opinion, not in the slightest. What I did say is that this is not just about you, it's about all of us, and our teams. You're taking a very selfish attitude to this entire issue, and to grouping in general.

Darkest Dawn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Ohio, USA

W/Mo

11 Jul 2005 at 18:18 - 212

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Amen. If I wanted to mission with someone who did naff-all but sit back and horde gold/experience while I did all the work, I'd take Alesia with me.

Yeah, but even she is a good meat shield! An AFKer isn't even good for that!

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

11 Jul 2005 at 18:23 - 213

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

Aniewel: if one person leaving drastically changes your game...then I can certainly understand why you'd be upset about it.

I'm sorry to see you now resorting to being a jerk. I've always enjoyed the reparte with you but this is out of line. Why not just call me an f-ing n00b while you're at it and make me feel like a complete a-hole?

You have NO idea what I am going through in my RL. If you would like to know, send me a PM and I'll enlighten you.

I am bothered by people's lack of respect for other's time and energy. One person leaving on some missions (for instance the only warrior in a party of casters) can make a difference.

silvertemplar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Me/N

11 Jul 2005 at 18:23 - 214

Quote:

Ah, but you see, if people did actually quit then people wouldn't be complaining so much. Unfortunately, people don't quit, people go AFK without explaining why because usually they want to freeload through your mission and do diddly-squatt themselves. This is where the entire problem lies in the first place.

In all honesty, if i need to do a #2 or eat i rarely go AFK, i simply go "gtg,bye". Im pretty sure the entire team is going ballistic when my bar goes grey mid-mission (just like i get peefed when someone else pulls it on me). One of them will probably be posting a thread about "quitters" on here too. I guess it is pretty selfish of me too, because i'm not going to plan ahead for this, im going to get mid-mission and go "well too bad for this team, they will find someone else soon enough,too bad im the monk though..".

What else can you do? Plead with the team and AFK instead? I feel alot more guilty doing this because you feel you must now rush through your life-tasks for a game/virtual team. Then GuilDwars become GuilTwars.

Afkers actually annoy me more than someone that just drop out of the mission. But that is certainly not everyones feeling...and very circumstancial.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:24 - 215

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

MuKen: it's absolutely not proper courtesy....but what effect does it have on your life? what makes you waste energy caring?

It has no effect on my life, and I don't waste energy caring because it never happens to me. I only play with RL friends, so I don't have to deal with AFK'ers. This issue has never come up for me. I am simply here, because the OP started a thread about an (apparently) controversial issue, and I have a strong opinion on it. What I don't understand is why you are wasting your energy diverting this thread from it's point, and trying to tell people they should approach this game the way you do?

This thread is not about how Algren Cole deals with AFK'ers. If you want to speak about other kinds of proper courtesy, on internet message boards it's common courtesy NOT to hijack threads away from their main points if those points are still being discussed. You are free to start your own thread "What's the best way to deal with people going AFK"

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:24 - 216

Quote:

I didn't say that you're not entitled to an opinion, not in the slightest. What I did say is that this is not just about you, it's about all of us, and our teams. You're taking a very selfish attitude to this entire issue, and to grouping in general.

it's not selfish as I've already stated that I wouldn't leave in the middle of a mission or quest unless I absolutely had to...and if I absolutely had to I wouldn't have the time to let anyone know or map out or think to close the game...i'd simply get up and go do what I HAD to do.

at the same time it doesn't bother me if someone goes AFK....am I certain they are freeloading...absolutely not. Can I assume they are? sure..but I'd rather assume they HAD to. I agree with the reaction the OP had to his group going back to town to kick him....he was pointing out how asinine people can be. What they did is essentially the equivelant of driving 65 mph in the passing lane in an attempt to thwart speeders....

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:26 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

I'm sorry to see you now resorting to being a jerk. I've always enjoyed the reparte with you but this is out of line. Why not just call me an f-ing n00b while you're at it and make me feel like a complete a-hole?

You have NO idea what I am going through in my RL. If you would like to know, send me a PM and I'll enlighten you.

I am bothered by people's lack of respect for other's time and energy. One person leaving on some missions (for instance the only warrior in a party of casters) can make a difference.

the latter is what I was refering to...it wasn't meant the way you took it. I have no problem mapping out and doing the quest again...but I understand that some do. It wasn't a low blow...it was simply a statement of understanding...if the person leaving changes your game(and in turn takes away from your fun) I can understand you being upset about that.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

11 Jul 2005 at 18:26 - 218

While it's been fun, kids, this discussion isn't going anywhere for me. The entire 200+ post thread could be boiled down into about 20 words, I'd guess. Too much.

I'm going to bow out now.

Ba Ne

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Michigan

W/Mo

11 Jul 2005 at 18:28 - 219

1. If you go AFK for whatever reason expect to be dropped from the party. If you don't get dropped then good for you.
2. If someone in your party goes AFK either continue without them or return to town and start again.

Those are your options, whether you like them or not, until ANet steps in and makes some changes or human nature suddenly evolves. End of discussion. Lock the thread as this will continue to degenerate in a downward spiral.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:28 - 220

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

It has no effect on my life, and I don't waste energy caring because it never happens to me. I only play with RL friends, so I don't have to deal with AFK'ers. This issue has never come up for me. I am simply here, because the OP started a thread about an (apparently) controversial issue, and I have a strong opinion on it. What I don't understand is why you are wasting your energy diverting this thread from it's point, and trying to tell people they should approach this game the way you do?

This thread is not about how Algren Cole deals with AFK'ers. If you want to speak about other kinds of proper courtesy, on internet message boards it's common courtesy NOT to hijack threads away from their main points if those points are still being discussed. You are free to start your own thread "What's the best way to deal with people going AFK"

I have no interest in a flame war

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

11 Jul 2005 at 18:31 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the latter is what I was refering to...it wasn't meant the way you took it. I have no problem mapping out and doing the quest again...but I understand that some do. It wasn't a low blow...it was simply a statement of understanding...if the person leaving changes your game(and in turn takes away from your fun) I can understand you being upset about that.

*sniffs into her hankie* OK. Sorry I took it the wrong way.

Diomedes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Blue Island (think Chicago)

Me/N

11 Jul 2005 at 18:34 - 222

Quote:

I'm going to bow out now.

Man, now Aniewiel just went afk! The nerve!

-Diomedes

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 18:34 - 223

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I have no interest in a flame war

I'm sorry if you think I'm somehow flaming you, but would you mind explaining to me how you think this is the case? A flame is an insubstantial insult with no point except to be insulting. I am actually taking exception to the way you are influencing the thread, and stating it as such, along with a suggestion on how you can better go about things. I did it harshly, but not untruthfully and with no statements made that were unrelated to my point.

However, if you think this constitutes a flame-war, say so and I'll stop.

Xonic

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

11 Jul 2005 at 18:41 - 224

I gotta go grab a burger... Nobody posts until I finish my lunch!

Sure you all can wait 15 mins for me. It's only a forum damnit!

the discussion can resume whenever i return. You all wait here! No posting until I get back!

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

11 Jul 2005 at 18:56 - 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

I gotta go grab a burger... Nobody posts until I finish my lunch!

Sure you all can wait 15 mins for me. It's only a forum damnit!

the discussion can resume whenever i return. You all wait here! No posting until I get back!

That's 15 minutes up.

Wow it looked like you made it work.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 19:01 - 226

I can't believe the conversation actually stopped for 15 minutes....

Supervixen

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Asia

11 Jul 2005 at 19:02 - 227

He's not back yet? Boot him!

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 19:07 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supervixen

He's not back yet? Boot him!

roflmao....we need a "kick user" button for the forums.

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

11 Jul 2005 at 19:11 - 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

roflmao....we need a "kick user" button for the forums.

Reserved for admins and supermods.

Stauf

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Do Not Pass Go

R/Me

11 Jul 2005 at 20:48 - 230

Wow. I read the beginning and the end of this thread. How did it go from "taking a bathroom break" to "sitting back and hording gold and experience"?

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

11 Jul 2005 at 20:49 - 231

Believe me, Stauf, you don't want to know.

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

11 Jul 2005 at 20:49 - 232

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stauf

Wow. I read the beginning and the end of this thread. How did it go from "taking a bathroom break" to "sitting back and hording gold and experience"?

Erm, wasn't that the topic in the first place? Leecher = AFK person who gets experience, gold and a mission for free. The connection is that leechers are so common now, many groups go nuts when someone says "afk" or "brb", even if they're taking a toilet break.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 21:11 - 233

Furthermore, the last bit of discussion isn't actually talking about "sitting back and hording gold and experience". I think he assumed the thread would go there, then acted like he didn't, and made up the part about reading the start and the end, so he could poke fun at the thread ending up there for the sake of trolling

Watersong

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 21:43 - 234

I'm really suprised you're all still talking about it.

People are repeating the same posts because people argue the same things. Someone needs to post a sticky on "How to Go AFK".

Stauf

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Do Not Pass Go

R/Me

11 Jul 2005 at 22:48 - 235

Principa: Ah, I see. I misread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

Furthermore, the last bit of discussion isn't actually talking about "sitting back and hording gold and experience". I think he assumed the thread would go there, then acted like he didn't, and made up the part about reading the start and the end, so he could poke fun at the thread ending up there for the sake of trolling

Um... trolling? Okay... Just popping in to take a look. I did read the beginning and end, I just misread. But, hey, thanks for the troll accusation, jerk.

Celes Tial

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Pirates of BBQ Bay

Mo/Me

11 Jul 2005 at 23:06 - 236

Expecting other people to either sit and do nothing or go ahead without you and drag you along so you can eat while they do the work for you... thats selfish.

I have absolutely no problem with people needing to do -whatever- if they leave the group for it and let me pick someone else who is ready to go NOW. Whats wrong with eating your dinner groupless and joining a new group when you are ready to play again?

Also, it is nothing but fair to warn the group ahead of time about how long you can stay, and planning ahead so you do not need to drop out in the middle of something. Having a pizza in the oven is something you know in advance.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

11 Jul 2005 at 23:06 - 237

Given that MuKen put a

next to the trolling part that you are apparently so miffed about, you could have at LEAST put a

or even

after writing "you jerk". In my book, "you jerk" is infinitly worse than insinuating someone is "trolling" < rolling eyes graphic >

< insert smile here >

Stauf

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Do Not Pass Go

R/Me

11 Jul 2005 at 23:23 - 238

Heh... I'll go ahead and assume you're joking then.

<--- how's that?

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jul 2005 at 23:51 - 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stauf

Um... trolling? Okay... Just popping in to take a look. I did read the beginning and end, I just misread. But, hey, thanks for the troll accusation, jerk.

If you honestly weren't trolling, then I apologize. I didn't think any offense would be taken if you were just trying to get a rise out of people, but I had no call to be making assumptions.

Stauf

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Do Not Pass Go

R/Me

11 Jul 2005 at 23:56 - 240

It's cool... I probably should have refrained from commenting at all (my mistake

).