How can we improve team missions?

Ok for me this is one of the biggest annoyments in the game: Finding a GOOD team to complete a team mission. Every time I get to a point where I have to do a team mission to make progress I start to find 1000 and 1 reasons for NOT doing it today. When there's really nothing else to do I finally get to the point where I decide first to try it with henchmen... After 2 or 3 attempts I stay in town hoping this time a good team will do the mission. Its hoping againts all odds.

Today we tried the Ring of Fire mission twice. Not one of the hardest missions I think. First time after the advice to find an alternative route the party just headed to the main entrance and kept dying untill players started leaving... Second try the party leader told 3 times only to follow him and not to rush... So we waited patiently until the meanies at the entrance were lured away, followed and than someone just headed ahaed to where 2 groups of enemies just came together... We barely survived... Than the same person ran back to the entrance where the lured away monsters had returned... end of game. I almost think he did it on purpose

Since team missions are so important there must be a way to avoid this kind of annoyment. Things that DON'T work:
-Joining a guild (ever seen a party of guildmembers doing a teammission??)
-Waiting for friends (never enough online to build a good 8-men party)
-Yelling around instructions before the game starts (see above)

Well I'm clueless at this point. Teammissions seem like a random event this way. When lucky you do it in 1 run. But mostly I find myself back in town after some failures, turning the computer off, telling myself to get back tomorrow. At the start of the game I just played on, now I've had it after only 2 attempts...

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My guildies and I run missions together all the time.

I haven't, but that's because I can't run through their instanced areas.

Same. Only about 4 or 5 of us are on at the same time, so we just go together and fill in the gaps with the healer/protecter henchies. We also use vent, so we get to know each other better and coordinate our attacks/strategies together. Maybe you just need a better guild...

Maybe. Yet I never see more than like 2 or 3 players of the same guild in any team. Its never a problem filling a team with like 5 good players... But than the rest
This could be one of the most serious problems in future. Like the guy I told about, its allmost like this was a way to pk the team. And we allways will need at least some random players.

The difficulty of the missions really is problematic to balance for ANet: Missions that are very hard for random pickup groups (PUGs), may be very easy for parties of a single guild using teamspeak.

The issue here is, that especially for the desert missions and the missions after that, I hear too many players that have to rely on PUGs (for whatever reason) being frustrated, because they have to repeat missions 5 or more times. Repeating mission 2-3 times can still be fun, but after that it certainly isn't fun anymore, especailly if you know you have to complete the missions to proceed in the game.

"Maybe. Yet I never see more than like 2 or 3 players of the same guild in any team. Its never a problem filling a team with like 5 good players... But than the rest "

That's because when people from one guild get together, they don't accept strangers. At least, we don't. I prefer to take Alesia/Mhenlo/Lina over to some stranger who might screw us up.

Ring of Rire is one of the toughest missions in the game because the front door require a good amount of teamwork as the "back" door is suicide (that part is a bad joke of ArenaNet, I rather face the seals that yet another imp mob and another spider mob).

As for the ascention missions ... I have to disagree since I done it with PUGs and pass then with then, those missions require a little knowledge of how the mission plays out and a focused group, people can even screw up a bit at points and pass then.

Problem is for people that just got there and dont know what to do, I admit those missions are going to be tough for then but as long you have 2-3 people that are replaying then you will be fine as long you follow their lead.

1. Get paid voice actors.

2. More dramatic and explicite character movement for cinimatics.

3. More Prince Rurik quotes!

4. Hire writers, not game designers to write the script.

(My opinion of how to make missions better )

Agreed

That's the weird thing.... when I get the 4 senior members of my guild together for a mission, it's pretty much automatic that we'll beat it, even if we fill out the other 4 slots with random people (Well, maybe it'll take 2 tries). That is, assuming those other peeps don't try too hard to get us all killed.

PUGs... I did Thunderhead Keep last night 3 times to no avail due to lack of coordination. Once it was because even though the leader specifically said "Hang back by the king", Me and him were the only ones there. For the record, I thought his plan was like planning for our death, but it was a plan, and more than what I had to offer. Point being... his plan might have sucked it, but we were absolutly doomed if people didn't stick to one plan.

Then there are are your random bored people who whine during any reading of a plan before the mission starts, the people who can't attack called targets, the ones who accidentally aggro extra mobs, the ones who have coasted by with a build that is mediocre at best, and the ones who like to draw delightful art on the minimap. Whatever. You get used to it. I only leave if someone says any racial comments, or the stupidity level goes well beyond what is normal. I've only had to do that once.

I only failed 3 missions with my monk. It was easy the whole way through. I failed one when we didn't know we had to kill every guy in our path and Evinnia stayed to fight, failed 1 time on the infusion mission because everyone but my warrior friend and I left after they got infused and that one we almost won with two of us no hench, If I'd have brought one smite we would have won, and I failed my first try at Hell's precipice.

I couldn't believe the difference coming through with an elementalist. The groups I get in now are horrible and I can't do a thing about it. It's frustrating as anything. All I can do is try to kill faster but that doesn't heal the king in Thunderhead keep when the person he's attached to attacks the furthest mob in the group.

People listen to monks, they don't listen to elementalists at all. I can say, "stay in the middle of Thunderhead with one on east and west ballistae and call when they come your way and we'll get them," but nobody listens. With a monk I say, "i'm healing here, if you're not here where I am you're not getting a heal," and they pay attention.

Not only that but if someone rushes in I let them die. I felt bad the first few times but my bad feeling has gone away. The monks I play with now rush in to heal the fools, then they die, then we all die.

Good groups wait for the monks and warriors I guess. I've done most of my missions with hench so far but Thunderhead keep I can't do with hench. The only desert mission I group'd for with my ele was Thirsty and my guild mates were nice enough to help me on that one.

They'll help with Thunderhead as well but I hate to ask them because it's such a long boring mission, that is with anyone who doesn't rush out the east gate as the Jade warriors are coming in the west.

I just couldn't believe that people are as poor at playing the game as they are. It's a totally different perspective than playing a monk.

I guess I didn't get to my point, my point was that there are good groups if you're the right class. If you're a mesmer/ranger/necro you have to get lucky to find a good group.

This is my biggest complaint with the game too.

As a monk, I normally have the ability to pick and choose my group without fear of not being able to find another one. My war/monk on the other hand is so abundant, that I have to practically beg to get into a group.

I still have not completed the ring of fire mission with my warrior because I simply cannot find a decent group. People underestimate the power of an elementalists and believe that a warrior is an equilivent. This is clearly false, and even more noticble when we fail to dish out enough damage to kill a monk boss. Sure we can take it, but if we can't deal it, then what's the point?

People underestimate the power of a Mesmer as well. They can render many casters useless, yet people constantly skip over them.

Instead I see this ever so common group: 4 warriors, 2 monks, 1 ranger, and 1 something else. The best groups I've played with never have more than 3 warriors and usually do very well with only 2.


On that note, concerning groups, when you finally find a decent group in terms of correct classes. You have some idiot who goes AFK or disconnects (of course we assume not his fault), or you have some "I'm god" warrior who rushes too much and forgets the fact that casters have energy.

This is without a doubt the most annoying thing in this game, yet at the same time, it has the ability to be a great thing. There's nothing better than when you complete a mission first try with practically no deaths, or you dominate throughout FoW with ease.

My thoughts on a good 8 man group for PvE are.

2 Warriors (Tanks and set up to take a lot of damage)
1 monk (set up to help keep tanks alive)
3 Eles (nukers)
2 Ranger, Mez, or Nec

Sometimes you can substitute the Monk with a good Necro

I hit a pickup group for Thirsty River with my W/M. I said we need a Necro and a Mes the group was like WTF!! Then people start complaining about the level of one of the Rangers (15). Finally after we get a group of 2 warriors, 1 e/m (healing), 2 rangers, and an ele nuker we start.

The first thing that happens is the e/m (healing) runs off to start attacking like the rest of us are henchies. Then tells me to shut up and play the game as I am trying to get people coordinated at the beginning. I was thinking now this is going to be bad. Some how we actually made it to the 3rd round and died at the fight with the priest and the monk boss. No backfire, no interupts and all but two of us die. Those two run seperate directions and take mobs with them.

One of them dies and starts letting the E/M have it in chat, because he had died. Needless to say we lost. Got back to Thirsty disbanded the group and formed back up with the R/M 15. The E/M whispered me and asked to come back in. We let him back in. Got the other Ranger back plus a third ranger. We then grabbed Alesia and Orion and beat the mission.

I still do not understand why other classes besides warriors try to tank all the time. If I play my E/Me or my Mo/Wa with guildies I never even get agro much less harmed and our Warrior takes all the hits while the monk just keeps him alive while the Ele nuke the mobs.

Thats exactly the heart of the matter! One solution would be if future team-missions are just optional with a decent reward. But not necessary to get to a new map. Another option would be to improve henchmen so they actually listen to some basic commands. Especially I would like to order them to wait

That might work for Dragon's Lair, but it won't for FoW. If you make just one bad pull, then your Monk won't be able to keep up with the damage. A good 8 man PvE group would want 1-2 Healing Monks and 1 Protecton Monk. You also don't need more than 1 Elementalist. I'd say this would be a good PvE group:

1-2 Warriors
2-3 Monks
1 Elementalist
2-4 Anything

Of course, there are always exceptions. Wierd groups like 1 Monk and 1 Elementalist or 8 Rangers can work too.

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You also have to count on the fact that some members will leave. I usually take 3 monks considering that one of them will leave after or before we finish the wailing lord quest.

I take atleast 2 warriors becuase I know one will always be a brainless aggro-fest and then leave out of frustration becuase the monk didn't heal him when he tried to solo 6 shadow beasts.

2 eles would be better then one in my opinion; more firepower, one usualy leaves becuase he thinks hes the smartest person who ever lived, ect, ect.

I also will usualy like to take a Necromancer next or maybe a Ranger.

Is it just me or is the Mesmer usualy forgotten in UW and FoW groups?

Sorry, I was talking about the main missions for the story line. I kind of got off topic to. heh

I personally think they should have a rating system similar to the ebay system where you rate a buyer/seller.

People could rate players they played with and jerks who try to extort money at the last money from a group (pay me or I will make you all lose), clear idiots, etc would quickly find that no one will take them into a party. Also I think it would help out the mesmer, necro, and ranger characters that have good builds and do awsome work.

I was able to complete about 95% of all the missions and storyline quests solo with NPCs. The game has been made substantially harder since then I believe, and so groups of hopefully more intelligent players is a must.

Playing with a group of players that understand their roles and are relatively mature is always enjoyable.
If you find yourself in the PUG from hell (which is fairly commonplace) do yourself the favor and drop immediately - don't waste a moment of your time on players who are not interested in moving the "team" forward, or helping everyone overcome the obstacles at hand.

A decent Guild will run missions with its players, because they realize that its strength lies in its membership.
Your Guild refuses?
Why are you still in it?

There are lots of really sad excuses for Guilds out there, but know there are also some excellent shining examples. Look around, talk to people, and inquire - be persistent and you will find a Guild that will be glad to have you and vice versa.

Talesin

The only advice I can offer is to minimize grouping with people. If and when you do, be picky about who you take along. Don't invite people just because they say LFG and you need their particular class. Let henchies fill in any blanks. 3 players who know what they're doing and 5 henchies can do a lot better than a party of uncoordinated people with an idiot or two thrown into the mix.

I can only think of two missions (Thunderhead and Thirsty) and a few bonus missions (awaken the druids, save the Chosen, clear the towers) where players would be better than henchmen. Thunderhead is doable with henchies I've heard. I just grew tired of henchies being stuck against the catapults whenever I'd go to fire em. Not sure about Thirsty since henchies absolutely suck at handling more than one group at a time unless you have decent defense/healing.

As long as you're patient and make sure to engage one group at a time, there's really no reason why you should have much trouble. At least your henchies will focus fire, making them vastly more effective than the all too common groups that don't. Yes, the henchies may die more often than you like, but some DP isn't the end of the world. I've been a heavy hench-user with three chars, a monk, mesmer, and ranger, and all of them have found henchies to be far more reliable than most people.

As for the Ring of Fire, the back route isn't necessarily suicide if you can heal your party, interrupt the imps, and/or deal AoE damage. I personally found it a lot easier than going through the front with henchies because the seals chew them up.