What Level Really Means (Rant)

Ok i have had something bothering me for a very long time and i think its about time i state my opinions so maybe certain individuals can see how ridiculous they really are.

Here is the story of Crystal White the Mo/R.

Crystal was created so that i would be able to purchase and cap some skills for the class "Ranger" which is the only class i never completed.Nothing personal, but the Ranger is my least favorite character.Now as you might have guessed..if this is my last character i must have played through the game many times..or at least switched professions very often.Either way, the PVE aspect of the game is highly repetitious and i definitly want to get through it ASAP.So as a veteran to GW and a highly skilled one at that..i skip through all the quests and stick solely with missions.Obviously, a few missions in and im at Nolani.Cost? Im level 7.Impact to my effectiveness as a monk ? 0. Now picture the rest of the population at Nolani. Lo and behold..the people in Nolani are nowhere near in the same predicament as me..noo..they are LvL 18 and boast about it quite loudly in main channel.

Now, along with the sadness of being LvL 18 and being nowhere near the end of the game.They even have the nerve to insist that everyone in their party must be lvl 15+...oh yes you heard me, LvL 15+.Im sorry but if you need to be that high in level to beat up a pathetic Charr who probably doesnt even scratch you..GW is definitly not the game for you.These are the very same people who choose a War/Mo and flood random arenas with their uselessness.Your level and Tanking abilities are useless! Whenever i get a War/Mo in Random Team i already know my party is down one useful player.Double if they are sword warriors.

I hope my little story hits home because im sure some of you have played this way and im sure some of you have the patience to play PVE and the same boring quests over and over again just so you can be "UBER" and totally anihalate a monster thats half your level.Im sorry, but that is not a sign of strength..that is a sign of weakness and you really need to learn to play the game.

In the end, i gave up my questing with Crystal and she was promptly deleted.As for my ranger skills..i took my Guild and molded them into GVG'rs.We now farm faction by whipping people in GVG and hopefully some of the people that refused to party me because of my level get their asses handed to them in front of all their guild mates that they brag to.

Now i await the fool who will dare disagree with me and insist how level is SOOO important in PVE."Yeah well your more durable at high lvl".*Cough* You suck *Cough*.

What level means to some people is the same thing that...manhood size means to a lot of men. This is also known as the "mine's-bigger-than-yours-syndrome". Some people think that size matters. *shrugs* I'm almost 100% sure that most of the people you've run into that act this way are teenaged boys.

Some people are just idiots. It doesn't matter if they're a level 1 or a level 20.

i myself ascended my ele at level 16, and the whole time i was being thrown out of groups by people who think like this, a lvl 16 non nub player has a WAY better chance of living than a lvl 18 uber 733T character,but you have to look at it this way, most of these people have played mmorpgs to where level DOES matter, so to try to make them think otherwise, it wont happen.
Alot of peopel can argue about this, and i think it has been posted about 6 times before you just posted,imo level means jack, a level 16 knowing what he's doing can beat the crap out of a a lvl 20 W/Mo (the excitement of these W/Mo's must be great because everyone and their mom has one, excluding me)in pvp arena. Yes you wont do as much damage, but you're a healer, yes you'll die faster than a lvl 18 monk, but w/e im not the majority of retards in this game.People just need to learn that "SKILL" is the factor in this game not "LEVEL" thats why we have a lvl 20 cap

I don't really see a point to this...rant, sorry. You've played through the game, you know that you don't need to be at lvl 18 at nolani. Shit I hardly EVER see lvl 18's at nolani unless they're ACTUALLY much further in the game, the average level at nolani is 12 I'd say, at least that's what it is right now as I'm looking at it. Seems reasonable enough to me, doing the quests and missions in ascalon will get you to about that level by that point.

Why does this even matter though? So some lvl 18 guy wanted to be a dick...why the need for this rant? I mean the first time I went through the game I did it all and was lvl 20 before I ascended, then on all my others I ascended at anywhere from 11-15. Not a big...deal.

And a big nod to you, PieXags. You're definitely right. Sometimes, though, a nice rant gets it all out of your system and the sun comes out from behind that big black cloud and you can sing and laugh and toss flower petals again.

There were level 18 at Nolani! Wow, if i saw a level 18 at nolani trying to do the mission and was not just there to ehlp a friend, I would't bother partying with em. I agree you you almost 100%, but the extra health helps a little. The only time I ever cared what level people were was when doing the thunderhaeds mission and the leader brought along a level 8 and 9. I left automatically.

Probably would have saved yourself more time by just skipping to yak's bend instead of futzing around with nolani and goto the frost gate. The missions through the shiverpeaks seem to save more time than trying to run it alone. But then after that, you can easily skip to fisherman's haven via a TOA run and using the 7 henchies to do the mission area just south of there. The amount of exp from the missions is rather low compared to the exp generated from the quests as the monsters in the mission areas seem to have the lowest level or weakest monster type for that region, untill you start bumping into mursaat, but even then they dont come in the same sized herds that you would find in the explorable areas.

Haha, I know what you mean. I always question the reason behind other people's rants, never thought to realize that nearly every single on of my posts is a rant of some sort, I need a little reminding of that sometimes.

Cough Cough you suck.

DO it with henchies, do it with Guild mates, do it with another player who has a clue. Problem solved.

Yeah i feel much better now.Thanks for listening.Oh and btw its not the first time this has happened.Crystal the mo/r was just an example and the latest experience i had with it.As is the lvl 18 war/mo bragging in town.I never once was lvl 20 before ascension even on my first character.I understand everyone has different patience levels but at the same time these very same people cant expect everyone to blow hours for a stupid quest that earns you a skill you can buy in the next major town anyway.

So once again..this IS NOT the first time this has happened and this lvl discrimination happens all the time.The worst spots are Nolani academy and every mission before you get to D'alessio Seaboard.Oh..and an average lvl of 12 at Nolani is still pretty pathetic.

Like the other dude who posted a response..i also ascended at lvl 16.That is skill.Argue all you want about how you need the spells from quests so badly.I run a guild of around 30 members and i would personally boot anyone who put so much emphasis on level.If you enjoy the pve aspect and you enjoy collecting skills that fine..just dont force it on everyone you encounter just because thats what YOU do. If you take any offence to what i said its just proof that your one of them.I itch to debate with these individuals

I agree level discrimination is annoying. The only time I have problems is when someone thinks it's funny to be level 1 in the team arenas and join your team, since everything think he's level 19.

I was level 12 with my ranger by just doing the quests that gave me skills. I find that being a little bit higher and doing a mission is not at all pathetic. Not everyone here speeds through the game just to get the PvE over. Then again, being level 15 or so at Nolani would actually be a little pathetic. What I find more pathetic are the level 8s in in the southern shiverpeaks asking for a group to invite em becasue tyey say that level doesn't matter. Seeing things such as these always make me laugh

[QUOTE=Blow_Holez]I was level 12 with my ranger by just doing the quests that gave me skills. I find that being a little bit higher and doing a mission is not at all pathetic.

I understand what your saying and that is your purogative.At the same your not running around forcing everyone to be like you.Im one of those people that rush through the game..why...cuz im utterly bored of the pve aspect and i literally fall asleep during missions.I like hearing people cry and complain when you beat them in a battle and i love getting a good challenge and run for my money in GVG or HOH.I love Koreans.They are the best challenge on average.And that is what i play for..challenge.Without it..this game is pointless.I would have been happy with PVP alone for this game.No grind and no boring PVE.Unfortunatly PVE is a reality in this game..but it doesnt get any more interesting when your forced to adhere to everyone elses playing style.Especially if they are new.

Now i believe my Guild is waiting for me for some GVG.Anyone in here can message me if they are looking for a friendly battle.My in game name is Zeus Thunderlord .

Level does make a difference though. While the difference between a few levels is minimal, the difference between more becomes quite a large gap, as the attribute point increases become larger.

Now, more importantly, all players out there are an unknown factor, unless they aren't. That is, if we're talking about random pickup groups, then most likely, you don't know any of the players around, but if we're talking about traveling with your guild or friends, then you do. Since the discrimination takes place in random pickup groups, that's all we're talking about then.

So, room full of people, you know none of them. You don't know their skills, their intelligence, or their manners. You only see Main Profession/Secondary Profession, Level, Name.

Generally, you want a certain main profession, don't care much about the secondary, could care less about the name, except when it's offensive, the only factor left to look at prior to inviting for most random pickup groups is level then.

So, comparing between a level Y Mo/X and a level Y+Z Mo/X, which would you prefer, on that alone?

Very few pickup groups will take the time to invite someone, question their competence, and then choose to boot them should they not fill the role desired.

It's a general rule of thumb, which, unlike with racial stereotyping and the like, is backable by hard evidence. That is, the clear statistical advantage.

Unfortunately, it's also complemented with bad attitudes and close-mindedness.

Recap of what I mean:

In a random pickup group that does minimal, if any, screening of its potential party members, there is no reason they shouldn't prefer a higher level member of the same profession over a lower level member. The same reason people want +15% damage over +13% damage mods. That slight difference could tip the scales in your favour.
However, when there're no +15%'s around, there's also no reason not to settle with a +13% and move on with your life, or expect other people to wait around all day to get a +15% drop.

Now, in your example, if the average level really were 18 in the area, why should they want a level 9? (Doesn't have to be Nolani)

That'd be a difference of 180 health and 85 attribute points, I think. (may be off by +/- 20 health and +/- 15 attribute points) That's 11 ranks in an attribute you're missing out.

For a Healer focused monk, that's ~35 less health per heal, assuming you divine your points among Divine Favour and Healing Prayers.

Or, in general, your character is going to be less versatile from missing all of those stat points.

Why should I want your sub-standard healing over that Me/Mo support healer who also promises to help shut down enemies?

Food for thought.

In actuality, I travel primarily with hench and a guildmate. In the recent past, I was in the random PvP arenas and a level 14 showed up. One person dropped immediately, saying we had no chance with a level 14. The level 14 made a huge deal over it saying he could do just as well. Then, the enemy team focused fire on him, and since he didn't have Droknar's armor, he went splat. The moment he died, he ditched. I know because I whispered him afterwards, and said it was a lame thing to do since he was just complaining about the other person ditching, while we stuck with him. He said, "It doesn't matter anyway. We had no chance without a monk"
...

Anyway, on a brighter note, people actually welcome level 19's in the arena a lot, I've noticed. When a character is level 19, they miss out on 20 health and 15 attribute points in comparison to the level 20's. However, especially when their professions match those of a popular template, you know they at least developed their character from level 1 and earned their skills, and are most likely are familiar with the skills. (Of course you don't really 'know' any of this. It could be a friend playing who knows nothing about guild wars. It's just a general rule of thumb that works positively in the favour of having a lower level for once.)

And yes, I know quite a few people don't even reason it out themselves. Goodness knows a large number don't even think before they say things. One match, after losing, one of the enemy team members says on talk, "We lost because we had a level 16. Lame *** nubs, get out of the arena" [Or something to that extent.] And our teammates point out that we had a level 12 and won.
[And don't get me started on all of those times where people complain about monks, not even thinking about the state of the other team. "You won because we didn't have a monk!!!" "Uh, yeah, we didn't either..."]

Conclusion:
-I acknowledge that level discrimination exists, but also point out that to an extent, it's valid.
-Quite a few people aren't thinking of valid reasons before trying to put others down.

[Ok, I summarized twice, that's probably a tad redundant... What I mean to say is, my tendency to analyze and reanlyze my own statements gets repetitive. ;P It's not an attempt to sound condescending, it's just the way things work in my head. >.<]

I couldn't get a party in nolani so I did a solo run to yaks, I am now level 10 and I can't find a party to do borlis pass. I am a W/N. If you want to party with me, IGN is Poundu Phlat.

Now I am seriously considering just running through explorable areas and not doing any missions at all, since it is so hard to get a group if you aren't above level 18 by yaks bend.

Although it's obviously stupid to reject anyone who's below lvl 18 in Nolani Academy, in the post-ascension places I would be very much opposed to bringing along anyone who's not level 20. It just wastes your time.

Your level affects you a lot, actually. Not only does it directly affect how much damage your attacks and skills do, and how much damage you take, but it also affects you indirectly, as in you'll have more attribute points to use and boost your skill damage. Not only that, but those non-lvl 20's most likely haven't done the 30 attribute pt. quests.

So basically, incompetence comes in all shapes and levels, and I'd much rather have an incompetent lvl 20 than an incompetent lvl 10.

yep, and for those who complain about the rant suck it up, those who signed up for this website are entitled to post any type of rant they please.

What`s so crappy as w/mos as a class? I agree many people who play w/mos are bad but so are many other players who play other classes.

I partied with a mesmer in the very first mission who was already level 15. and i asked if they already did this mission and was just helping a friend, and they said that they hadn't done any missions yet. wow, level 15. in the first mission.

one thing... why not switch your secondary, get the skills you need, and switch back?

Hmm? As I see it, people have the right to demand whatever the heck they want in group members. If people say "only grouping with people who live in Manhattan and like to wear top hats", well then I don't group with them because I don't live in Manhattan and wear top hats. It's pretty self-centered to say "you should want to group with me, and if you don't you're wrong".

Furthermore, now you're asking a bunch of total strangers who don't know friggin jack about you to differentiate between you and some random noob who just got into some group that was rushing through all the missions. If I have a choice between a random high level stranger who may or may not be a good player, and a random low level stranger who may or may not be a good player, I think I'd go with the high one. At least then if they suck, they aren't gonna get themselves killed on crappy charr all day.

And the best part is that in your thread about level discrimination, you pretty much imply that anybody who is a high level for their area is pathetic. You'd generally expect that people complaining about discrimination would be open minded themselves. Some people like to do all the quests and take their time, enjoying the game as an RPG.

Wow considering I've heard alot of 'it's not about leveling' or 'it's all about skill', people seems to be hung up with both. Anyhow it seems to me there are bigger bragging rights to saying that you're a lower level in a high level area, than braggin you're a high level person.

I dunno very odd...

my...manhood is level 20 and ascended

Woo way too much info there bud...lol
But you know judging from most posts I've seen lately it's more prestegious to say lvl12 ascended.

I was level 16 in Pre-Seer. Turned level 17 on that quest you get right after pre-seer (When it says 2 years later on the screen).

BTW, you'd unlock your Ranger skills a LOT faster if you do all the quests that unlock skills:
http://cleaned.beyondunreal.com/temp...wardQuests.htm

Hmm- my first character was 20 when I acended, but that's because I was taking my time and exploring areas, doing all the quests I could find, etc. I believe I ascended my second character at about 15 and my third was at 11. Fortunately, I had guild support, and at level 11, I was a burden during the desert missions, but I was still able to help the party more than most random pickups. For my level 15 character, I did 2/3 of the game with just henchies- and I was a Mesmer/Warrior- not a W/Mo or anything like that.

Player skill makes a far more difference than a couple levels. Knowing how to use henchmen can help a lot too, since if you're lower level than the average player, it is difficult to find parties. However, pretty much everywhere in the game can be done with henchmen- the only places that I haven't been able to manage with henchmen are Thirsty River and Thunderhead Keep. I've also found it's much easier to take henchmen to some areas than other players- I've cleared mineral springs several times with just henchmen, where most pick-up groups I've gone there with can't generally make it past the first encounter.

The whole point is that i dont want to do all the damn quests.Thats what i meant with skipping through with all the missions.Ive done these quests many times and i find no enjoyment doing them again for the sake of some skills that usually can be purchased elsewhere. As for the random people in town and not knowing who is skilled..that is fine..but if the guy your inviting is so much higher than everyone else its not really a good sign as to his playing abilities.I mean if you see him in Droknar armor thats ok but if hes no better than you and lvl 15+ in Tier 1 of the game then i dont think you have much to gain from partying him over a person of normal level.You guys are acting like its one odd person here and there thats different.Go to Nolani at lvl 6-8 and you will never get a party.Yes you can take henchman or skip through the mission but doesnt that make the game even more boring?

Also im not talking about going to Thunderhead Keep at lvl 16.There i would say that level does mean something as its a crap load more of life and attributes and i think a Mursaat would royally pwn anyone under 20.Even if you wouldnt get killed you still wouldnt be as effective as the rest of your party.Its simple mathematics.But that type of discrimination does not belong anywhere in Tier 1 of the game im sorry.

Im glad to see some of you are sour about my post.Im sure you are the very same people who only party high levels in Tier 1 of the game and your probably the same type of people who freeload off high levels while you sit back at home and stuff your face with potato chips.Just remember how "skilled" you are when my guild steamrolls over you in GVG you almighty lvl 20 war in ascalon
Oh but lemme guess...you dont GVG because all the good GVG'rs are cheaters right.Yes i know your type..afraid of a good challenge

PS..Try to be civil with your flames.I have kept my posts formal and the debate to the point.Lets see if you can also do the same.

LMAO!

Your my favorite poster Muken.I specifically heat up my posts just for you.I know you dont like me or my views.I dont live in manhattan and i dont wear a top hat.Which by the way is not the point of the arguement.Its not one person out of a million.All of Tier 1 is infected with the..lvl 15+ disease.Look at the rest of the posts in here.Im not alone.If you can bring a valid arguement other than mocking everything i say then plz post it here.Otherwise go lvl up your lvl 20 war/mo in Nolani

Yes you may choose to have your own invite specifications..but when the entire town is asking for high lvls because the game is SOOO HARD.OMG Nolani Academy takes UBER skills to complete.That lvl 7 Charr P00NS me!!

I can name countless times when i started this game and all the players actually had skill.Back in the day no one was anywhere near high levels in Tier 1 of the game.Ahhhh the good ol days.Lets see what you got Muken.

Awww, I'm touched

Disclaimer: The following quote has been revised and stripped down for maximum understandibility. Even a monkey could follow it!

*shrug*, people want what they want. If what the majority of people want is not you, then live with it. Don't be that guy that no women go out with, so he thinks all women must be dumb....

Lmaonade--

How does one flame in a civil manner? Formal flaming? Please enlighten.

Anyway, if you see my lvl 20 war, el, or mo in Piken Square for instance, it is probably because I am there to

a) meet a guildmate--hey! I like to help out others!

b) mule stuff from one player to another via storage - Piken is so small, no matter where you pop out storage is always right there;

c) give away stuff I am tired of storing, to people who may need it - sometimes to the dreaded complete stranger!! - yesterday I gave away a bowstring of charrslaying (useful at that point in the game) and a beast mastery rune to the first ranger to open a trade window.

Also, I have taken my time with all my characters. Since I am the ultimate newb/noob, I need the extra time to discover the subtleties of each class - and yes even a w/mo has subtlety.

Go ahead, make assumptions about why you saw my monk when she was lvl 15 at Ruins of Surmia. For my part, I will try not to make assumptions about you.

There are indeed asses out there, and I am sorry for your experience. I too have encountered some really really awful people, and I try not to be one of them. However, we didn't purchase 25,000 new best friends for our $50.

I absolutely know how you feel Lmaonade.

I played through the game 4 times (and my chars were subsequently lower, every time I started again), and it was a real pain finding groups, because people expect you to be much higher level than is reasonable (if the henchies are lvl 12, why the hell should I be lvl 15, and not just lvl 12 as well?).

Your opinions? Fair enough, lets take a look.
Why would we have guessed that? You can delete and recreate your characters as often as desired - and many people do. I have four different character classes in game; this does not automatically make me a "game guru god."

Translation: I am high maintentance; easily bored and require constant excitement.
Here is grandiose lie #1.
We don't know you from anyone, simply stating you are skilled doesn't make it so. Guess what? I'm a GOD. Now worship me!
Is anyone else's "idiot alert" light going off here?
Translation: I am boasting about being level 7 at Nolani.

When has anyone heard of higher levels boasting about their levels EVER?
You don't because it doesn't happen - its always the little rushed noobies like this one jumping up and down and screaming, "look at me! look at me! Augury rock and level 3!"
I only have one question left to ask;
Did you actually jerk off while you wrote this? Because this is nothing but a shameless piece of self-gratification.
I am not only not impressed, but in fact the opposite - more likely to hunt you out in PvP and shame you in front of your friends.

I can't wait to be underwhelmed by your leet mad skillz!

Talesin

Wow....well said but....

You guys are right i have pointed too many fingers and have made so many assumptions.When you become confident with your gaming abilities and know your own self worth you cant help but become RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOy.To me a formal flame is one without someone spamming N00b constantly to one specific target.Not using bad grammar or anything that doesnt require at least an elementary education.I have been in many arguements in game for the same debates.Personally i dont really care who has a problem with my open'ness.For the sake of my contradictive nature and the knit pickity attitude of certain individuals i will try not to ever make any assumptions while trying to get a point across.Other then the fact that you suck if your lvl 20 in Nolani Double if your a war/mo

I agree that rate really doesn't mean too much, but I will admit to getting really annoyed at a level 2 who did the academy mission to go to post searing. He said, pre-searing annoyed him. Fine, but when it came time to do the mission, he just stood there. I said... well come on.. he said no he would just get killed and expected to stand there while I did the mission for him.

I just left and did it with only henchies.

Talesin dont start with me.I have seen many of your posts and you never have anything to contribute but your useless opinion about a particular post.I dont cut up quotes and knit pick what people say.I make observations on highly obvious facts that i see in the world around me.On a lot of those counts your right about me though.Great analytical work...i do not hide what i am and my skill speaks for itself.If i seem vain and Elitist its simply because i am.The people i play with should bend around me simply because im more experienced.The world runs on experience.Ive been playing this game since the day before Day 1 so i have every right to brag and complain about newbies making ridiculous demands.

Now go find another post to insert your cheap attacks You do not affect me in the least.I applaud you for keeping formal though.

I understand and feel your annoyance Lmaonade. Each of my characters was ascended well before level 20. At level 13 my monk was ready to begin the ascension missions. Needless to say people were rude and laughed at my “perceived” ability and the “why rush it” attitude. Out of frustration I took henchies and completed the missions myself then finished ascension.

People are very close minded when it comes to formulating groups. It amazes me when a group is shouting for 2 monks for a petty mission prior to ascension. Personally its more fun to have the diversity of individuals and their chosen professions, but as previously stated…… “there are idiots in this game”.

Oh and BTW
Cruel Solace:
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Thx and plz try harder.
Or is the 40 plat for a sigil too much for your l33tness