The Fertile Seaon and Symbosis rituals are retarded. They are impossible to kill and the rangers can just cast it over and over again. You can't kill them because they can heal them and it just gets recasted over and over.... Rangers no longer get death penalities for them. A team can just sit at the guild lord and cast them over and over again, causing the battles to last hours and there is nothing you can do. Please, for the love of god, fix this. It's boarderline griefing at this point.
-Virt
Nerf Fertile Season [Merged]
Virtuoso
tektonik
Talk about grief skills we ran one Ele/Nec and 7 Mo/Ran you can not kill this build. 7 fertile seasons all with 500 health + all the healers in the world + 7 pets. BE ran this in tombs CTF maps were a JOKE. Cap once and body block the rest of the map. In deathmatch we can make it go PERPETUALLY. No one was able to kill us we would let fertile drop kill some then if troubel came spam it again and rez'd. LotD just left after 2 min in GvG :P /love. I do not want 4 hour GvG matches that force peopel to quit that is all and thats why Blood Eagles rant he build. Most of us are agaisnt it most of us HATE IT. Just dont want to face it
To anyone who saw it please tell me that it was not unfair.
To anyone who saw it please tell me that it was not unfair.
Virtuoso
I agree 100%.
My thread on the subject started not a few hours ago - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=3239
-Virt
My thread on the subject started not a few hours ago - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=3239
-Virt
tektonik
Dont even need Symbiosis
Seriously anyone who say the Trashtalking BE build knows it.
EDIT: We are running it as a Finale hope youdont face us maybe a video will come if these guilds stop quitting lol
Seriously anyone who say the Trashtalking BE build knows it.
EDIT: We are running it as a Finale hope youdont face us maybe a video will come if these guilds stop quitting lol
Brett Kuntz
FS is the dumbest skill, it just makes the fight boring.
tektonik
Agreed Blood Eagles proved it lol
Saidin
Should also be mentioned that regardless of wether or not teams can still KILL YOU with fertile season on. Having it doubles or more the time it takes to controll the HoH maps. Having the ghostly hero at 2000000 hit points makes him nice and stable for the 10 minutes required for holding the HoH.
And if you pop fertile season off to each of the sides you can grief and extend the time it takes for the side battles in the HoH to finish and thereby decreasing the time teams have to beat you in the middle when you hold it.
Definitely a grief skill.
And if you pop fertile season off to each of the sides you can grief and extend the time it takes for the side battles in the HoH to finish and thereby decreasing the time teams have to beat you in the middle when you hold it.
Definitely a grief skill.
Trexton
agreed. Very abusive on relic and hold the center maps.
tektonik
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Originally Posted by Trexton
agreed. Very abusive on relic and hold the center maps.
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Kadeton
It sounds like Fertile Season's effects need to not stack.
tektonik
The reason we all spam it is not cause they stack that would be 2k health its that each spirit wil have 500 health and by the time you kill half the recharge time is up and we can spam it again.
Xellos
It's a yawnfest with Fertile Season 
but it's very essential for pick-up groups during the Underworld mission. 295 damage using gash to warrior is painful.
but it's very essential for pick-up groups during the Underworld mission. 295 damage using gash to warrior is painful.
Ander Deathblade
ya, omg that was crazy
In the D'alessio Arena this one fight went on for hours after this ranger guy started putting Fertile Seasons all over the place. We constantly broke our teeth on the monk, and when I turned to just kill the annoying things, turned out the Ranger casting it was on MY team. It was so annoying. It can go on forever like that.. If it's vital for pve.. then allow it in pve only... but please, remove it from pvp.
In the D'alessio Arena this one fight went on for hours after this ranger guy started putting Fertile Seasons all over the place. We constantly broke our teeth on the monk, and when I turned to just kill the annoying things, turned out the Ranger casting it was on MY team. It was so annoying. It can go on forever like that.. If it's vital for pve.. then allow it in pve only... but please, remove it from pvp.
Burodsx
Ya if that thing stacks then Guild battles would NEVER end.
474hp x 7 + 24 armor x 7 would be
+3318 HP and +168 Armor
Anyhow, the point being of the seven casts makes it impossible to kill them all off. So the next best thing I could think to do is to keep inside their range so you're protected as well. For the most part that could be considered strategy by having seven people to cast it, but nobody likes an hour+ long battle so there is definetly something that needs fixing on this skill.
474hp x 7 + 24 armor x 7 would be
+3318 HP and +168 Armor
Anyhow, the point being of the seven casts makes it impossible to kill them all off. So the next best thing I could think to do is to keep inside their range so you're protected as well. For the most part that could be considered strategy by having seven people to cast it, but nobody likes an hour+ long battle so there is definetly something that needs fixing on this skill.
tektonik
You can have hour long GvG normally but soemone is getting DP all the time with this is just a standoff :-/. And in competitive GvG 40min-1 hour is about right cause thats how long most FPS matches are total.
Gamertaku
Now this, to me, certainly seems like something that needs to be nerfed. The fact that it allows a group consisting of only one or two classes to win consistenly is reason enough already. But the fact that it also allows people to become nigh-invincible means there's a definite balance problem. For balance, no skill should let someone achieve something this strong.
/notices that he's just agreeing w/everyone else and not adding anything new.
/head asplode
/notices that he's just agreeing w/everyone else and not adding anything new.
/head asplode
Kadeton
Haha, silly me. I didn't take part in any serious high-end PvP, so I have no idea.
It seems like having a skill that more than doubles base HP would be a bit much. It's going to at least double the time it takes to kill a player. PvP battles are already long enough (or in my opinion, way too long) to have this kind of time extension.
It seems like having a skill that more than doubles base HP would be a bit much. It's going to at least double the time it takes to kill a player. PvP battles are already long enough (or in my opinion, way too long) to have this kind of time extension.
Sausaletus Rex
I agree that something needs to be done about Fertile Season. I'd probably just have the Fertile Spirit (or for that matter, any Ritual Spirit) not affected by its bonus or by any other Fertile Seaon bonus meaning you've got a weak little lv8 critter sitting there in a sea of 2000 hit point characters making for easy pickings. A duration reduction wouldn't be a bad idea, either.
Still, I'll put this forward. Fertile Season takes 5 seconds to cast. If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.
Still, I'll put this forward. Fertile Season takes 5 seconds to cast. If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.
Excel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
It's a yawnfest with Fertile Season
but it's very essential for pick-up groups during the Underworld mission. 295 damage using gash to warrior is painful. |
ratatass
I think it needs a NERF BAD. I had one battle last one hour - just to kill off one out of 5 teams.
It was very helpful for me individually making me impossible to kill as a Ranger. But annoying to everybody else.
I used it with some success to defend our priest together with healing spring. But all I did really was prolonging the fight. I would sometimes set it at the our priest and go kill off the other teams nearby priest.
It is the most annoying skill though ever. Please take it away.
It was very helpful for me individually making me impossible to kill as a Ranger. But annoying to everybody else.
I used it with some success to defend our priest together with healing spring. But all I did really was prolonging the fight. I would sometimes set it at the our priest and go kill off the other teams nearby priest.
It is the most annoying skill though ever. Please take it away.
Barkam
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex
Fertile Season takes 5 seconds to cast. If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.
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Ander Deathblade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex
Still, I'll put this forward. Fertile Season takes 5 seconds to cast. If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.
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rii
you could be interrupted... or:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...tion-id840.php
would that work?
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...tion-id840.php
would that work?
Vermilion Okeanos
It is really hard to interrupting someone with ritual... I mean, who is stupid enough to do a ritual in the range of everyone.
When I use a ritual, I measure the area by radar... then I cast it behinde us so that the back line of the enemy team doesnt get it... No one ever see me doing a ritual during the start of the battle.
I think people took too lightly of ritual... there are 1 person out of 100 people that would actually directly assault the ritual the moment they see it, and those guy are the smart one... or rather, experienced one... The best counter would be having someone to use crtl most of the time to see if any ritual spirit are around right from the start of the battle.
To balance it... I think they need a skill that can be put there and ignore all ritual effect inside the area.
When I use a ritual, I measure the area by radar... then I cast it behinde us so that the back line of the enemy team doesnt get it... No one ever see me doing a ritual during the start of the battle.
I think people took too lightly of ritual... there are 1 person out of 100 people that would actually directly assault the ritual the moment they see it, and those guy are the smart one... or rather, experienced one... The best counter would be having someone to use crtl most of the time to see if any ritual spirit are around right from the start of the battle.
To balance it... I think they need a skill that can be put there and ignore all ritual effect inside the area.
Ensign
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex
If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.
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Combine that with maps with ten minute time limits, and you have a nightmare.
While there might be solutions for competitive teams, Fertile Season is an absolute nightmare for the 95% of teams that are *not* competitive. Given a half decent group of Monks and poor focus fire, and you have a recipe for hour long standoffs just from casual usage. Add a dedicated build and you're basically looking at a universal god mode - people just fight until they get bored.
Or until the ten minute time limit expires.
It's a symmetrical skill and it's hard to really break in a straight one on one fight, so I wouldn't exactly call it unbalancing - but it's just a miserably boring skill. If there's one thing you can say about a skill more damaging than 'it's degeneratively overpowered', it's 'it makes the game not fun'. That's what Fertile Season does, and that's why it needs to be toned down.
Peace,
-CxE
tektonik
Yes ensign that is the point. In the last match we played with our build at around the 30 min mark we went to our GL and sat. The other team sat outside for 5 min I assume making a plan cause they had already killed the outside NPC's. When they finally came in however they were making come process(killed one or two people and a few pets) but they just were high DPS and didn't have enough interupts.
I am sure a team could eventually beat this build especially a high ranking team but the ammount of time it takes is forever. Another point is the one person griefing a team that is just mean since you can't kickout or reinvite people after you are in tombs or arena.
I am sure a team could eventually beat this build especially a high ranking team but the ammount of time it takes is forever. Another point is the one person griefing a team that is just mean since you can't kickout or reinvite people after you are in tombs or arena.
nicosharp
I did notice although fertile season was quite easy to take down by attacking, that their team could heal it.. and it also got the same benefit from the ritual.
Perhaps a reasonable nerf would be to make all rituals spirits third-party, meaning they can not be healed by anyone, but attacked by all. Also make all ritual spirits not effected by rituals. This would allow you to hex them attack them cast on them, but not heal or enchant or buff them with rituals. This is beneficial to you because, you can drop rituals when needed as a strategy.
I think posting a problem is great, but not without a solution. Most people that post here have known fertile season was overpowered since last BWE, it was just exploited better this time around, due to similiar posts.
Perhaps a reasonable nerf would be to make all rituals spirits third-party, meaning they can not be healed by anyone, but attacked by all. Also make all ritual spirits not effected by rituals. This would allow you to hex them attack them cast on them, but not heal or enchant or buff them with rituals. This is beneficial to you because, you can drop rituals when needed as a strategy.
I think posting a problem is great, but not without a solution. Most people that post here have known fertile season was overpowered since last BWE, it was just exploited better this time around, due to similiar posts.
Xellos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Excel
What? that makes the creatures even harder to kill with their high armor, the key is wards and blinding IMO
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Think about it, 500x3 + 24x3 < 500x8 + 24x8. It also gives you more time to spam spells like blinding flash and such. And lastly, those guys are beasts in the first place, I don't think I've ever hit them for near 150 ever, most 120 with Final Thrust. They on the other hand, without Fertile Season, have hit my gladiator armoured warrior by 150-200. Pick up groups need Fertile Season for Underworld, because it gives less-then-competitive groups a chance to make up for their mistakes. Not everyone can always get the group they want.
But like Ensign said, this skill only drags things out, the only benefit it has is for people to recouperate(sp?) their losses or save someone in battle? I don't know, but I find this to be a legitimate tactic, though it's effectiveness needs to be toned down.
Ensign
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
I don't know, but I find this to be a legitimate tactic, though it's effectiveness needs to be toned down.
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Hence all the cries for a nerf.
Peace,
-CxE
Excel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
And lastly, those guys are beasts in the first place, I don't think I've ever hit them for near 150 ever, most 120 with Final Thrust.
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120 with final thrust, I did ~76 damage to them with lightning orb and 16 in air magic...That would hint they had ~110AL against elemental damage
Xellos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ensign
Well even the most broken of skills is going to have perfectly fair and reasonable uses. Unfortunately you can't balance around fair uses - you have to balance around the unfair ones, the abusive ones. I'm sure there are people using Fertile Season at low levels as a defensive countermeasure who won't quite understand the nerf, but it really don't matter what fair uses exist. The fact is that people are using this skill to make matches unreasonably long and frustrating, and that's problematic.
Hence all the cries for a nerf. Peace, -CxE |
you have to balance things around unfair skills at this point.Quote:
| 120 with final thrust, I did ~76 damage to them with lightning orb and 16 in air magic...That would hint they had ~110AL against elemental damage |
Auh
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tektonik
To anyone who saw it please tell me that it was not unfair.
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I think a good possible fix on this is lowering the Armor by about 8, the health by about 100, and lengthening it's recast time. and/or reducing the spirit's Hp and/or Armor.
Excel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
Yeah, but I've seen those things take down elementalists in 2 hits. Warriors 3-4. So scary for pick-up groups |
My point was if you did 120 with final thrust that was really good damage against those beasts... or did I misunderstand you that they did 120 to you 
Kha
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Excel
Yes I know THEY can do 350 damage hits do 60AL but I spoke of the damage I did to them with 16 in air magic
My point was if you did 120 with final thrust that was really good damage against those beasts... or did I misunderstand you that they did 120 to you |
TheSecondSeven
When team's who use the Fertile Season spirit start saying things like "What? You dont like spending time with us?" and "Good thing I planned nothing for the next 3 hours." It shows that some people are out there with evil intentions, and yet still cant even win. I hated that battle more than anything, and I hope there is a better way around in next time it happens to me.
Down with fertile season!
I think you have proposed quite the solution.
Down with fertile season!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nicosharp
Perhaps a reasonable nerf would be to make all rituals spirits third-party, meaning they can not be healed by anyone, but attacked by all. Also make all ritual spirits not effected by rituals. This would allow you to hex them attack them cast on them, but not heal or enchant or buff them with rituals. This is beneficial to you because, you can drop rituals when needed as a strategy.
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Excel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kha
120 is good with Final Thrust. Sounds like maybe Judge's Insight or some damage increase was used. I think I only got 90-100 with my final thrust, IF that. And they were doing 140 damage to me with Knight's Armor. Defy Pain helped though. I thought 140 was a lot. I can't even imagine how I would react to seeing one hit do 300+.
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but they did that to me with my 60AL hydromancer armor
tektonik
One week before the game goes live and still no forseeable changes that will keep this from griefing every part of PvP 
sama
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tektonik
One week before the game goes live and still no forseeable changes that will keep this from griefing every part of PvP
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Xellos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Excel
Yes I know THEY can do 350 damage hits do 60AL but I spoke of the damage I did to them with 16 in air magic
My point was if you did 120 with final thrust that was really good damage against those beasts... or did I misunderstand you that they did 120 to you |
The problem with air magic against bladeaxes is that their most likely resistant against it, since I've seen Obsidian Flame with Elemental Power Glyph do over 120 to them. I'm willing to bet their just made to smite Air elementalists, seeing as their the generally most useful out of the bunch (high damage single nukes, nice hex XD).
Think about it, alot of fissure/underworld stuff is undead too. This makes smiting alot better for PVE use. Their just making monsters based on what's not popular and giving them an advantage.
Or at least that's my theory.
Perishiko ReLLiK
Even tho many people have responded to this fact, i figure ill add the same arguement. Fertile season is pointless, it does nothing but make the battle last longer... symbiosis is fine in my idea, because it can actually be used for stradegy if you're using a more monk based/enchantment based build, which will help your own team more then the enemy, but fertile season is just annoying. I tried to make a use for fertile season to where it would only help one team, but it's very hard to pull off... Such as the monk skill where you gain health if you're about to die, dont remember the name... but if you cast that on your teammates when the spirit dies, people are left with one health normaly... depending on the damage output of the team's, and that would help your own team more... But it's too annoying to try and normaly ends in failure anyhow...
(add 1 to the annoyed list for fertile season)
(add 1 to the annoyed list for fertile season)