No temple unless your ascended?

so am I....I really couldn't care less. It makes perfect sense to the story that the gods wouldn't give a damn about you...you are nobody to them until you ascend. your guilds warriors must be the only decent warriors in the game...cuz I've yet to come across more than 1 or 2 in my travels.
I simply can't believe how often people like to complain....most of you would find ANYTHING to complain about.

lol its not about the warriors. they are just meatshields.
and hey, my guild warriors level of leetness ranges from average to slightly above average but they excel at teamplay.(at our limited level of skill that is)

if you plan to stay longer in the game, maybe you will end up just like me:
trying to do things, that havent been done before.

i think, a player that is of assistance in UW at a low level would definetly be worthy to the gods. think, guys, think.

Algren Cole is spot on.

There is a problem in this game with intentional griefers and the lack of a group recourse to effectively combat this malaise. It is more than a minor annoyance in missions and that only waste a player's time.

ToA sub-areas cost time and money, so the vested interest is higher. A purposeful detrimental act hurts alot more. As previously stated in other posts, money and the accumulation of wealth is also currently an issue in this game.

Unless completely rushed to Droknar's through Lornar's, nearly all characters will be lvl 20 after ascension. There still is no way to pre-evaluate an inexperienced player or one who only cares to ruin a team's success, but what other choice did A-net have? They implemented a requirement to at least arrange for parties of equivalent lvls.

This is to prevent the idiotic mindset of a "lvl 1 warrior tank" being successful in these areas and a compliment to any team. Although a lvl 1 tank can be kept alive, a lvl 20 tank is easier to keep alive. Although these low level characters would almost assuredly not be partied with, the possibility was still there.

I agree that a guild group of lvl 7's should be able to willingly attempt these areas at their own cost and risk, but it is A-net's responsibility to figure out a way to please both sides, if at all possible.

Try to imagine it as an indirect attempt by A-net to discourage the Lornar's Pass shortcut. Likewise, just assume that originally these areas would not be accessible until a player finished the entire game, which is A-net's desire ultimately.

They want you to ascend, and see it as a vital part to the storyline and overall PvE experience.

And Gedscho, stop with the childish name-calling. It does you a disservice. If your so damn skilled in the game just do the ascension quests in one night eliminating the obstacle and quit complaining.

Enjoy the experience and thank A-net for keeping up with the majority of player's request. You deserve nothing and they owe you nothing.

Gedscho, again. Look at this from the God's point of view. You see this poor little player pushed along by his much stronger buddies. Seems to me like he's not a hero at all, just some pond scum who has lots of help. I mean, if a player did all that SOLO, and made it to ToA, THEN maybe he'd be worth my time.

okay, everblue: if you require him to get there, solo, id say he can come with us down there at level 10.
oh btw, everyplayer needs a lot of help to survive, mind you.

i dont wanna get wind up on it: but since a level 1 warrioir would take only 5 max damage from an aatxe(prot bond) the only problem is bleeding. so, against an aatxe a level warrrior is EASIER to keep alive than a level 20 warr.

because he would take 25 max damage, approx.

all i wanted to say is the following: you dont need to be ascended.

and if other teams got their trouble because of it, THEN JUST MARK THE player names as ascended or not so the team can decide.

and again, i bet, it was never intended to be restricted to ascended toons in the first place.

again, who did i call what?
he is telling wrong things, and i am pointing that out. thats all.
its not a prob to eliminate the obstacle in one night, but then your toons would get 50 k exp and put you on a much higher level, with sorta ruins the fun again.

is there any reason you don't see that 5 dmg to a lvl 1 is the same percentage of damage that a lvl20 would be taking if they were hit for 25? It's relative to the max. 5 isn't lower than 25 when it's still the same percentage of their max health

is there any reason you dont see the absolute amount of damage spread?

look at the energy required, to keep him alive....
you can even let him survive with a four pip mending. or a seed.
a vigorous spirit, even!
through the whole fight. (with vigorous on the cost of 5nrg. show me a cheaper way.)
so it does matter.

the only difference: you dont need to take care of the bleeding on a lvl20 war that early. but if you dont take care of it, you prolly end up eating loads of nrg, which could have been spend in ONE Mend ailment, solving the problem. but i believe there are Warrior skills that can take advantage of bleeding.


btw this trick is as old as GW i bet.

The entrance to FoW or UW, was blocked in part, beacouse lots of ppl would charge "newbie" players gold, and take em in there, do some quests, and have him be lvl 20 in one day. Wich by game mechanics its not supposed to happend.
Entrance to FoW and UW, is, as lots of ppl posted, a test to prove u r worthy to the gods.
This can be translated as, when u create a "Role Playing Character", even when u are not forced to go full throtle roleplaying, u are accepting that there is a story in front of u, that for better understanding needs to be followed in a certain way, according to a set of events.
A not "ascended" character, lacks the favor of the gods, by so not having the chance to enter FoW.
There are plenty of challenges in the game if u know how to find them.

Its true it doesnt hurt anyone if u go inside at lvl 11, but also it doesnt hurt u either, as u werent supposed to enter.

Its just a matter of keeping the storyline toguther, and cut a bit the powerleveling sold in gold and for real money on ebay.

If u like a nice challenge, create a new char, and wipe the hole char forces, 4 bosses included that are in pre-searing... that is very fun and challenging, due to pre-searing equipment and skills.

that's what I'm doing with my Mo/Ele....it was nearly impossible at lvl 7 and 8...it's quite easier now that I'm a lvl12

you draft a petition to let your guild into the UW/FoW without needing to be ascended...I'll sign it

Hell, I'll sign it too.

Implies that he is not respected. That is name calling for all intents and purposes.
--------------------

No one is arguing that lower level characters can be successful in these areas, its just that the ends justifies the means and the greater good of the community is served.

Please read my entire post which thoroughly and coherently explains A-nets change to the game mechanics regarding this issue. Is it a perfect fix? will it appease everybody? Of course not on both accounts.

Offer some constructive crticism that takes someone else's needs besides yourself into account and suggest a fix that serves both sides of the argument. Don't just disregard the alternative view to your own. You have a valid point, but have not attempted to understand the change to the game. Do you really think A-net said, "Hey, let's make the game less fun and less of a challenge?"

Become one of the "more" respected in the community.

Well, it's true, the game does take long. Of course, I like the game, and actually, I like the RPG (story) part of the game the most. But well.. It's getting boring after already completing the whole story 3 times and now you want to play with an other character in FOW/UW, but you need to play that damn story AGAIN.

You have to agree. that gets really boring.

But well, I still think this is a wise descision. Those lvl 16 noobs spamming: "LVL 16 RANGER JOINING FOR UW, WILL PAY THE 1 PLAT!!!!!" are pretty damn ennoying

Good Joke.

okay, then here goes my SORRY:

with NOT respected i was REFERRING TO MYSELF.

i meant: someone, that is better known that i am, shall tell him, that you CAN survive down there level 1. so he would believe me , without me explaining every little shitty step.

i am gonna edit that post before, so it will be clear that i am not dissing him.

oh, and i offered constructive criticism: mark the names.

thats all.

My biggest worry has already been brought up, but not addressed. What's to stop a level 20 character who is not ascended from joining a UW or FOW group? 8 people enter the mission and only 7 (or less) arrive.

I can go there with my Monk who is ascended. I have a non-ascended Mesmer that used to go there designed from day one specifically for FoW because I really love that place. Obviously I will get him ascended now.

I have no problem with this change as I agree with most of the posters in this thread. I just don't want to drop with 8 and end up down there with 5 or 6 people. I wish there was a way to stop that from happening.

lol, THAT happens? damnit, then anets solution is even more senseless.
(been to UW yesterday with a full ascended team, the 11 necro was asleep)

but id rather tend to believe, it would block out the whole team.

uuurrmmm... the major flaw of this little theory maybe is the 2 man team size?
how much of a challenge for "team build" you got with starter skills?

sorry, i want to go pvp, and we use certain pve areas for practicing the basics. a 2 man team doesnt come in handy here.

I don't know. Haven't been there since the patch as I've been doing the storyline with my Mez so I can get there. But I don't see how they'd stop it. People group there for Villany all the time. It really irks me that this can happen.

1. Ascend
2. Welcome to the Temple of the Ages

aaaaaaaah i am blinded by that bright and burning light of wisdom!

Also note that given regular progression through the game (not using lornar's pass) that the desert missions are the first places that you can get elites for your characters and that in the sourthern shiverpeaks is where many more are. To me it makes sense to limit the temple to characters that have ascended, it fits the storyline and it fits to have more powerful players in the underworld and the fissure.

As far as having the ToA earlier in the game than you can use it.. well, the first quest I remember actually telling you to go there is in fisherman's haven, at which point your pretty much to ascension anyway. I can see new players going there, finding out about it and saying "Oh, thats neat, I want to do that".

Also it might add a little more to the ascension process. I've had new guildmates ask me whats the big deal with ascension and the best I could really say is that its just a part of the plot, not anything really special, at least now there is a tangible gain from doing it beyond the extra experience.

>uuurrmmm... the major flaw of this little theory maybe is the 2 man team size?
Well, I can honestly tell I spent one evening with my friend doing that - and
it was _lots_ of fun... We cleaned the entire area of all chars (not a single one
standing!).

Characters were: Wa/Mo and pure Elementalist, both level 8.

Here's a screenie:
http://members.home.nl/rboerdijk/gfx...wars/gw013.jpg

sure sure, but the flaw of the team size doesnt refer to the difficulty
but to the 8man practice

to the temple thing:
i am just so pissed, when someone takes a bit more of the "freedom" you have.
we are restricted enough, because its a computer game, why should we immolate ourselves even more? i dont like any "absolutist" approach on troubleshooting. give players the possibility to decide.
and dont decide for them.
before the patch we could NOT choose, if we want non ascended players, because we couldnt tell. oh well, we could, if we knew each other.
now we can NOT choose because ANET already did.

for me the most important thing in a game are options and possibilities. the more ways i got to do something, the better.

oh and dont get me wrong, ascension is definetly cool and worth doing.

so, dear smitty, therefore you must go and find AAAAAnother shrubbery.

If this rule change is valid then it should be implemented that you can't get to droknar's and get high end armor until you are ascended. All the same reasoning supporting non ascended in UW/Fissure is used to explain Droknar's rushing. Arena net should be consistent.

My opinion, and it is their game so they can do what they want.

Now if that is the case then I agree, A-net totally screwed up. If so, they will rectify in short order methinks.

Agreed.

Heh, mine was not a theory, and it doesnt have a flaw. At no time u stated that u used FoW or UW to practice for PvP. U just said u enjoyed the challenge, u wanted to do something different, something that will need all of ur wits and skills to conquer.
I suggested that.
Its major fun fighting those chars, and with only basic skills, and 2 man team, it proves really a challenge.
Other thing u might want to its try to catch the fleeing Char boss, when u do Devona's "Trouble in the Woods" quest. As soon as u cross the bridge a Char boss is there and flees to the zone gate. Catch him before he disapears and kill him.

Just saying, there are plenty of "custom" challenges u can setup for uself to keep the adrenaline pumping, without getting lvl 11 characters into UW of FoW.

If u are really interested in challenges, feel free to pm me, and i'll write u down some of the challenges i made myself.
Free of charge of course...


"Carpe Diem"

ok, basically i dont like presearing. landscape is nice, but it bores the hell out of me. i guess, its the team size.
but, well youre right.
on the other hand i think, the only real challenge will be to get to level 12 pre-sear, which is dead boring to me. any other way, i dont know if its doable with starter skills. never tried.


btw, i didnt even know you can stop that charr.
oh. and you got mail.

Um, to get to the Fire Islands you have to go throught the Southern Shiverpeaks. Just thought I would point that out


And, my Ranger got to Hell's Precipace (sp?) today, he made level 20 capping skills on Pardition Rock. He has every right to beat the easy PvE without those extra Att points, but I would not take him to the UW/Fissure even if I could.

It's another reward for ascending, which is a good thing. Obviously most older players won't see this viewpoint as much.

I really welcome this change, for once it is possible to avoid those *eh hem* idiots who can't even succeed in ascending

If they can't even make their way through the... *cough* idiot sandbox, what chance of them contributing well to your party?

I like this change. No more people blatantly spitting out lies about their armor or Skills. No more people flaming around they are "da uba skilled doodz0r" and can do Underworld and Fissure with Level 10 and 5 AL Armor from Pre-Searing.
It was not much of a problem in Underworld where you can do fine with 2 people runs. One minor player with uber ego doesn't weaken the team much there. If he dies, no problem, no loss. Underworld is about Spike Damage and easily countered with a protective spirit or bond.
However what DID piss me off was those people who went for fissure of woe (the quests there are more easy and faster done) in their newbie armor with some level like 15. Dude, you can tell me the brightest of fairy tales about YOUR personal skill. YOU JUST LACK AL, ELITE SKILLS AND DAMAGE OUTPUT. Did that get through? I doubt it did. Unless you got pulled to Droknar and captured Skills and Armor down there. But even then, your Attributes are spread real thin. Fact.
So you had a person down there who:

a) did not do his job like a fully ascended Character would do
b) was soaking up the monks energy with his noob armor
c) constantly had aggro and decentralized the mobs because he was the weakest link and mobs go after that weakest link.

Very very true. I personnaly think Fissure or UW should
only be for people that actualy finish the game. Since only when
your done everything that you got all your Elite skills or most of
them. also, It should mainly be bonus areas for people who are done
everything since they have nothing else to do.

Ahh that explains the less than friendly whispers I recieved when I arrived in TOA after a long and tough fight that started in Bergin Hotsprings (using my trusty henchmen). The whispers were in reply to my question about the function of TOA (I tend to like to learn about games by exploring and talking to other players. I immediately got several insulting whispers as to my noobness (and here I thought I was an explorer). Now I understand why the game is so quiet.

It was a nice way to power level your character from 10-20 in like 3-4 hours.
Thats why they blocked it.

Droknar Runs are next !

Personaly i don't think it should matter what level you are. If someone has worked hard for their cash then why shouldnt they buy the best gear,outfit their lil newbie and try something more chalenging? It realy doesnt hurt other players,If you don't wanna group with a low level then you don't invite them to your group.

The trouble with GW is that it is too easy.
I have played many games,of which the max level has taken me 7/8months,whilst guildwars took me only a week.
The only chalenge in guildwars is to be better than everyone else,at a lowever level...because everyone else is max level anyway.
Leveling is so fast that i would find it highly unlikely that any non-level 20 player would have learnt enough to have even heard of the underworld, let alone try to go there.(This may be a little less true in korea but in europe where we hardly have the favor i,myself didnt know about this untill i was well past lvl 20)


Another reason i do not think level requirement should matter is because much of guildwars is not level reliant until you ascend..but even then its not much different. You can have a great weapon and armour at any level,making the only variable a charactors own skill.
I have grouped with many players who are level 20 that have the skill of a level 10 player and the armour to match,maxed out with superior runes and no vigor.

I myself enjoy a chalenge and mostly leveled by discovering the map,taking on extreme chalenges on my lil newbie.

When you take the 'recommended' route and method it takes the fun out of the game. Just because anyone can take a certain combo of players and skills to kill that boss,does not mean anyone trying it a different way should be put down because they show a little creativity.

Stop being so shallow people! Get to know players and you will always know you have a great team that can take on anything.