First of all, stop all your cries about "economy crashing". The economy is at its best right now. No player or group of players who can dictate the economy by messing with the buying prices from the NPC traders.
Here are the examples:
Ecto = 10k gp
shard = 3k gp
black dye = 5k gp
These are the prices that you can buy the above items from sellers. Sellers can't jack up the prices based on buying prices from NPC traders. If the sellers don't like to sell their items at these prices, they can always go and sell it to NPC traders for 100gp (smart move!).
The economy is better than ever after the latest update
hydrak
noblepaladin
Or the sellers can just refuse to sell to the NPC and collectively increase their prices which will cause something like what is happening now with silver dye raising up to 2k gold and black dye is approaching 10k gold and not a Ecto or Shard remains in the trader market. I shouldn't have sold my black dye 2 weeks back to the trader for 3.5k gold because right now I could have sold to a guy for double.
teny10
That reminds me, I still have my black and silver dye.
Kuku Monk
I have 6 silver and 2 black 
For a while there silver was the only color dropping for me...then purple, and now it seems all I get are oranges.
Drakron
Quote:
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Originally Posted by noblepaladin
Or the sellers can just refuse to sell to the NPC and collectively increase their prices which will cause something like what is happening now with silver dye raising up to 2k gold and black dye is approaching 10k gold and not a Ecto or Shard remains in the trader market. I shouldn't have sold my black dye 2 weeks back to the trader for 3.5k gold because right now I could have sold to a guy for double.
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Rune prices also gone up but I think its more due to players starting to sell ID armors to the merchant (since they were worth more that the runes) that anything else.
Ultimate_Gaara
im yet to see any negative effects of the econ, infact i bought red dye for 200 gp less than the old fixed price, now thats sexy
i agree sometimes things are a little high, but its not like anyone or anything is forcing you to buy it right then right there, shop around like in real life check every now and again, thats what i do and i save more money than ever before
i agree sometimes things are a little high, but its not like anyone or anything is forcing you to buy it right then right there, shop around like in real life check every now and again, thats what i do and i save more money than ever before
Spike
rune prices are still rock bottom i got offered 3 times as much for my MINOR vigor as i did for both my sup runes COMBINED. There IS NO economy any more its been TOTALY destroyed.
Izzy Izumi
I'm kinda happy that I bought my Sup Rune of Expertise and one for Beast Mastery for 357gp and 135gp, respectively, at the Trader. But, it does kinda blow that I have to work so hard just to get that one extra platinum. =\
So much so that I went and got the Skyward Reach Ascalon Bow instead of waiting for someone to have a cool one for only a few k.
And, as far as dyes. Yeah, the prices are way off kilter. Luckily, I have two Silvers on my person...good thing I didnt' get rid of 'em! Then you have the other colors, which don't go for much at all. There goes my way of making money.
So much so that I went and got the Skyward Reach Ascalon Bow instead of waiting for someone to have a cool one for only a few k.
And, as far as dyes. Yeah, the prices are way off kilter. Luckily, I have two Silvers on my person...good thing I didnt' get rid of 'em! Then you have the other colors, which don't go for much at all. There goes my way of making money.
Kha
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Originally Posted by Kuku Monk
I have 6 silver and 2 black
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Axle_Fieshe
i got a sigil for 40k from the trader. so i am happy.
Hookecho
I'm even starting to question some of the things the traders are doing now.
I picked up 1 more Black dye than I needed the other day and later last night figured I'd sell it back to the trader rather than sell on the trade channel becuase it was taking up a space in my pack.
So i head over to DF and see 10.6K selling price on Black....yikes....I bought mine for 5K or something.....
I check the buyback price.....1g
WTH?
A 10K price tells me that the trader is low on black...thus he is willing to by to meet demand but 1g is freaking stupid.
I'm starting to think some well funded guilds are doing what the energy traders in California did a few years ago to energy prices. manipulating the market......someone want to explain this to me?
I picked up 1 more Black dye than I needed the other day and later last night figured I'd sell it back to the trader rather than sell on the trade channel becuase it was taking up a space in my pack.
So i head over to DF and see 10.6K selling price on Black....yikes....I bought mine for 5K or something.....
I check the buyback price.....1g
WTH?
A 10K price tells me that the trader is low on black...thus he is willing to by to meet demand but 1g is freaking stupid.
I'm starting to think some well funded guilds are doing what the energy traders in California did a few years ago to energy prices. manipulating the market......someone want to explain this to me?
PhineasToke
Ah yes, everything is fine, move along, nothing to see here.
Reiden Argrock
um, no everything is not fine, yesterday I sold a minor sword for 400g, thereabouts, and 3 superior runes brought in 75g, this is not a good balance. Due to merchants running on supply and demand, their isn't much that can be done, except change min price for certain items, I don't think all runes should have the same min price.. They finally took ecto and shards off of merchants, that was good, as for dye's, well, their novelty items, so, if your at the point where you just want to look good, then you probably have plenty of money, and so high prices for dyes are good.
newfangle
I don't know if its been said, but....
ecto is the new soj. This is the beginning of the end.
ecto is the new soj. This is the beginning of the end.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by newfangle
I don't know if its been said, but....
ecto is the new soj. This is the beginning of the end. |
And the economy sucks. If the trader is going to be selling black dye for close to 10k, then why the hell will he only buy it for a fraction of that price? That has to be the dumbest system I've ever heard of. How can he keep a supply in stock when he offers crap prices to anyone that tries and sell it to him?
I mean, just look at the traders. They don't look like they could solo FoW or UW to harvest Shards and Ecto. I shouldn't have to take a course in economics to make a virtual fortune.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
At least the Soj had a purpose unlike ecto which is only used to make you look pretty.
And the economy sucks. If the trader is going to be selling black dye for close to 10k, then why the hell will he only buy it for a fraction of that price? That has to be the dumbest system I've ever heard of. How can he keep a supply in stock when he offers crap prices to anyone that tries and sell it to him? I mean, just look at the traders. They don't look like they could solo FoW or UW to harvest Shards and Ecto. I shouldn't have to take a course in economics to make a virtual fortune. |
Epiphany. They're freaking pawn shops.
Without DVDs.
coleslawdressin
"The economy is better than ever after the last update"
If you are an ebay gold seller?
Trader selling for 10k and buying for 1gp is not in the spirit of supply and demand.
If this isn't fixed I will not be buying an expansion and I don't think I am the only one.
If you are an ebay gold seller?
Trader selling for 10k and buying for 1gp is not in the spirit of supply and demand.
If this isn't fixed I will not be buying an expansion and I don't think I am the only one.
MSecorsky
Pawn shop economy. No competition, small operators with monopolies in their respective towns. There's no reason for them to price things differently. I'll give you two dollars for your chainsaw and sell it for forty.
In that respect, the economy is working perfectly.
You all won't be happy until Wal-Mart sets up shop, will ya?
If the merchants had weekly or twice a week resupply and were programmed to unload their supplies before the next restocking, plus had competition from like merchants in the same town... then we can build on a real economy.
In that respect, the economy is working perfectly.
You all won't be happy until Wal-Mart sets up shop, will ya?
If the merchants had weekly or twice a week resupply and were programmed to unload their supplies before the next restocking, plus had competition from like merchants in the same town... then we can build on a real economy.
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
If the merchants had weekly or twice a week resupply and were programmed to unload their supplies before the next restocking, plus had competition from like merchants in the same town... then we can build on a real economy.
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Stev0
Yeah it's such fun jumping around from district to district to sell items to people who ignore you.
Mesmer1287
I hate the fact that I could buy a Steel Ignot for 150g at the merch just 5 days ago and now it costs me 400g a pop. The same with linen and all other materials and dyes.
If someone were to pick up the game now, start a character, bring that char all the way through the game into Droknar's, they would not be able to afford everything that I was able to get on my first character and STILL have some plat left over. They are turning this game into a farming for items/gold when they keep changing the good farming areas so there is either 1: More harder monsters or 2: Decrease the value of the drops (mathmatical value, not price).
Please ArenaNet, fix this for the lesser players. (and a Bazaar Zone to get the spamers out of Lion's Arch!)
If someone were to pick up the game now, start a character, bring that char all the way through the game into Droknar's, they would not be able to afford everything that I was able to get on my first character and STILL have some plat left over. They are turning this game into a farming for items/gold when they keep changing the good farming areas so there is either 1: More harder monsters or 2: Decrease the value of the drops (mathmatical value, not price).
Please ArenaNet, fix this for the lesser players. (and a Bazaar Zone to get the spamers out of Lion's Arch!)
StrongBow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hydrak
First of all, stop all your cries about "economy crashing". The economy is at its best right now. No player or group of players who can dictate the economy by messing with the buying prices from the NPC traders.
Here are the examples: Ecto = 10k gp shard = 3k gp black dye = 5k gp These are the prices that you can buy the above items from sellers. Sellers can't jack up the prices based on buying prices from NPC traders. If the sellers don't like to sell their items at these prices, they can always go and sell it to NPC traders for 100gp (smart move!). |
As for balance! Why before the update the price for runes of Superior Vigor/Absorbition would tend to go down and now they tend to hit 100pt.?
Why would Ecto sell 10k and Shards 3k and do you think this is a good "Balanced Price" for these items?
Remember! You would need 120 Globs and 120 Shards to be able craft "FoW Armour Set"
P.S. 120x10.000=1.200.000 Plats (For Ecto) 120x3.500 = 420.000 Plats (For Shards) ! Now if someone would tell me what kind of economy is this?
PhineasToke
I've decide to sit it out till they fix it. Stupid having to spend hours pharming instead of playing
Wa$d
I remeber a distant time before rune traders when the economy was good, you guys remeber that......so long ago......so long......now its gone to h-e-double hockey sticks 
hydrak
You guys are crying regardless of what anet is doing. With the latest update, anet basically took out the rare material trader by boosting the sell/buy ratio at the NPC rare material traders. If you want a fair price, buy your rare materials from players. Only deal with NPC rare material traders only if you are desperate.
=HT=Ingram
agreed... Its just the people that were inflating the economy artificially that were complaining that prices were coming down overall... Glad some other people are seeing the benefits...
PhineasToke
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hydrak
You guys are crying regardless of what anet is doing. With the latest update, anet basically took out the rare material trader by boosting the sell/buy ratio at the NPC rare material traders. If you want a fair price, buy your rare materials from players. Only deal with NPC rare material traders only if you are desperate.
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hydrak
Make up your mind, people... You were crying about the additions of NPC traders, particulary the rune traders. Now that one of the NPC traders is somewhat separated from gameplay, you are also crying. What do you want? NPC traders or not?
To PhineasToke, if you didn't know, you can actually craft most rare materials, and that is part of gameplay. Would you also like someone else playing this game for you?
To PhineasToke, if you didn't know, you can actually craft most rare materials, and that is part of gameplay. Would you also like someone else playing this game for you?
Ultimate_Gaara
wow, this econ is really nice, earlyer today Sigils were only 38K... i almost bought one, but i think ill wait for my guild leader before i do anything... i dont know about everyone else but i like the way Anet made it
MoebiusLost
Even in a virtual world it is only fair to have a completely free market.
Kabale
Well a smart player would put his prices at the same level or slightly below the selling price of the merchant, so he would still be gaining max amount of cash... A player would be stupid to sell it for less.
StrongBow
I am still waiting for an "Answer" from the original "Topic Starter"!
GG :/
GG :/
noblepaladin
I don't mind A.Net adjusting the ratio of the traders to make it less profitable to farm materials, but they didn't adjust the ratio, the made them completely illogical. Sometimes, they would offer as high as 80% even though they clearly do not need the item (I remember selling tanned hides to them for 25g each!!! and they were selling for about 30 each). And then when they are completely sold out of ecto, they still offer only 100g for them. Before they used to offer between 60%-80% of their selling price, but if they lowered it to 50%-70% or 40%-60% then that would be enough to make rare material farming to be quite unprofitable, as selling the original item would net more gold than the common materials + chance of rare materials + expert salvage kits involved. Right now it's best to horde up everything until you have alot and then unload it to other players.
MSecorsky
The merchants/traders are pawn shops. Very similar in pricing and practice. It's the best you can do with shops that do not have a regular restock, have no real competition and make fewer than average sales per week (thinking that the profit for each sale needs to increase to make the difference).
Here's a thought on how to fix...
1. Resupply. Touched on earlier, have the merchants get resupplied once or twice a week on all items.
2. Merchant goals. Have the merchants price items to sell out before the next restocking. If items sell too quickly, raise the price. Too slowly, drop the price. This will set prices to reflect a real supply/demand.
3. As for buying items, set the buy prices to fluctuate from say 25 to 75% of current sell, based on need, and these items become available for sale. Items high in stock that can't or won't move well, low price offered and visa versa. ALSO... allow the merchants to refuse to buy items that are overstocked. (No one will like that... but it makes sense.)
4. For restocking, if the merchant has greater than X% of an item in stock still when resupply comes, don't restock that item. Keep prices reasonable by controlling supply. This should also result in merchants in different towns having different prices and items available, making people shop around, balancing things out.
Well, I don't know how hard this would be to code, but I think the results would be a real stable economy. People may not get the prices they want, or be able to unload 12,000 plant fibers on a merchant, but that's the way it goes.
As for weapons... little different... allow the weaps merchant to resell weapons sold to him, at least a fraction of the gold/purps. This should bring prices of weapons back to more reasonable levels rather than having to pay 400K for a bow that does two more points of damage than yours does if a charr farts or something.
Furthering this line of thought... varying the amount of resupply can regulate the prices in the economy. Plus... say twice a week you could see these neat resupply caravans parked in town...
Thoughts?
Here's a thought on how to fix...
1. Resupply. Touched on earlier, have the merchants get resupplied once or twice a week on all items.
2. Merchant goals. Have the merchants price items to sell out before the next restocking. If items sell too quickly, raise the price. Too slowly, drop the price. This will set prices to reflect a real supply/demand.
3. As for buying items, set the buy prices to fluctuate from say 25 to 75% of current sell, based on need, and these items become available for sale. Items high in stock that can't or won't move well, low price offered and visa versa. ALSO... allow the merchants to refuse to buy items that are overstocked. (No one will like that... but it makes sense.)
4. For restocking, if the merchant has greater than X% of an item in stock still when resupply comes, don't restock that item. Keep prices reasonable by controlling supply. This should also result in merchants in different towns having different prices and items available, making people shop around, balancing things out.
Well, I don't know how hard this would be to code, but I think the results would be a real stable economy. People may not get the prices they want, or be able to unload 12,000 plant fibers on a merchant, but that's the way it goes.
As for weapons... little different... allow the weaps merchant to resell weapons sold to him, at least a fraction of the gold/purps. This should bring prices of weapons back to more reasonable levels rather than having to pay 400K for a bow that does two more points of damage than yours does if a charr farts or something.
Furthering this line of thought... varying the amount of resupply can regulate the prices in the economy. Plus... say twice a week you could see these neat resupply caravans parked in town...
Thoughts?
Mak
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MoebiusLost
Even in a virtual world it is only fair to have a completely free market.
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This IMO was the wrong decsion, because it means more time spent for the same rewards equals less entertaing. My recommedation toe Anet would be to unnerf and add some massive gold sinks. Examples: When observer mode comes out have betting on which teams will win, similar to horse racing where by odss are determoned by the playes bets and the house, A-net takes a cut. Another example pay for passage on the ship to fie Island. An entry fee for the tournament. In GVG maybe have guild put up a purse and Anet takes a 5% commision from the purse.
So enough of the rambling, in conclsion, Anet needs to consder what they want the game envrionment to be; pure fun or more grind.
Oh Anet great game, but stop F---ing up your on product. Other than PVP rewards and bug fixes most of your major implemtations have been questionable at best. Example the only reason a rune trader was needed was for PVP and this need has been unnecessry since PVP rewards began. Ramble ramble
MSecorsky
The ability to buy enhancements for your Guild Hall could be a potentially huge sink... for example 25 slots of storage for 1000K, 50000 wood planks, 10000 iron ingots, 25 dyes, etc etc. Allow a guild max of say 10 storage containers.
The amounts would of course need to reflect reality, they're just pulled out of my rectum, but you get the idea.
The amounts would of course need to reflect reality, they're just pulled out of my rectum, but you get the idea.
hydrak
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kabale
Well a smart player would put his prices at the same level or slightly below the selling price of the merchant, so he would still be gaining max amount of cash... A player would be stupid to sell it for less.
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Tell me which rare materials is in high demand and why?
To Strongbow, read my posts carefully. I've never advised trading with NPC traders in any of my posts. I suggest you use a little bit of thinking; it isn't difficult to figure out how to get ectos for 10k each and shards for 3k each.
noblepaladin
I don't like where the economy is going because right now most people are unwilling to sell any materials to the trader, therefore the trader prices will start to go up. As trader prices go up, player to player prices will also go up because plays generally use the traders price as an estimate of how much a certain material is worth. There doesn't seem to be any stop to it until stuff eventually gets expensive enough (or the trader simply runs out of stuff to sell completely, like they did with ectos and shards) that people will just salvage all the materials they need themselves. Also, there is no competition for the traders until prices get high enough for people to be willing to deal with the annoyance of trading with other players. Basically we will end up with massive farming trying to get materials and massive WTS ____ materials all over the place.
Divinitys Creature
They should make capture signets and skill points tradeable
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature
They should make capture signets and skill points tradeable
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I don't know how that would all work out though....
