I'd just like to give my opinion on one strategy for creating a Warrior/Monk. It has come to my attention, through several hours of play, that one enchantment on a warrior just won't do any good with all that competition you're facing. Solution? Use two.
My recommendations? Live Vicariously and Mending. It's what I use, and I have rarely been killed during play. Here's a more specific look:
Attributes:
Healing: 10
Swordsmanship: 10
Strength: 10
Tactics: 5/6 (forgot)
Skills:
(Adrenaline based)
- Sever Artery
- Gash
- Galrath Slash
- Final Thrust
- Rush
(Signets)
- Healing Signet
(Enchantments)
- Mending
- Live Vicariously
Of all the hours I've played, this is probably the most fun I've ever had, I'm nearly immortal, (unless there are like 5 people against me, of course)
Now, with Enchantments like Mending, you will have HP regen. of 3, and Live Vicariously you'll gain 10 HP every time you attack someone. That's pretty good healing there. Although you wont have any MP recovery whatsoever, you wont need it, because your healing signet will do the emergency healing for you. Also, ironically, the more you attack, the more you heal, so attacking is a MUST.AND, as a precaution, if several people are teaming up on you, you have Rush, an adrenaline based skill which allows you to run 25% faster. You'll be fine, guaranteed.
More specifically, follow these steps:
Cast Mending.
Cast Live Vicariously.
Target enemy.
Use Sever Artery.
Use Gash.
Use Galrath Slash.
Attack until health below 50%.
Use Final Thrust.
Use Sever Artery.
Use any skill / just attack til dead
Repeat with next enemy.
Use Rush if they run away.
Use Healing Signet if more than 2 people are ganging up on you.
Hope you like it! Give feedback =P
Some general tips:
- Contrary to popular belief, killing the healer first isn't always the best solution. IMHO, just kill the casters first, (low armor) then the warriors, (low healing) and THEN the healers. Why? The avg. 8 second ressurect will be far too long for all the healers to ressurect everyone. And while they ressurect, they are vulnerable to attack, leaving you to kill them easily. Tweaks may be made if healers are all concentrating on one warrior. The advantages? Well, you won't have those casters hailing spells on you while it takes an uber long time to finish off those Monks.
(Now I'll just walk away, regretting I ever revealed this information to you)
--Have fun-- Send feedback! =)
Edit: Oh, and by the way, if any of you find a way to put Frenzy (5 MP used, sigh) in here, please tell. =) Thanks! =)
'All out attacker' Warrior/Monk
Augustian
Cronos
Looks like a good build. I dunno about Frenzy though.
Xellos
If your an all out attacker, all your moves should contribute to attacking. Mending and Live Vacariously only benefit in making you live longer. It's more of a paladin classic War/Monk then anything offensively. Ensign's tomb war/monk works real well for all out attack, though I think Frenzy isn't that great compared to Berserker stance, since your mana is limited to a 1 arrow energy, and you will be using hundred blades anyways with the occasional sprint.
Virtuoso
Good build, but it will not work in organized PvP as your enhancements will be stipped and then it will be over.
-Virt
-Virt
Nash
Mending, Live Vicariously and Healing Signet are typical crappy skills that people use when they don't know better. Lose Healing, lose Tactics. Get skills that actually make you do more damage. "All out attacker" and you use self-healing, the irony.
Killing healers first is a bad idea? You'd rather try to kill a target that gets healed faster than you can do damage? And since when are healers supposed to resurrect?
Killing healers first is a bad idea? You'd rather try to kill a target that gets healed faster than you can do damage? And since when are healers supposed to resurrect?
Ensign
WaMos in PvP with self-healing are amusing at best. Sure, you're hard to kill, but no one cares. More importantly, you've gimped your damage output by focusing so much on self defense that you're a non-threat.
While monsters will happily attack a WaMo tank for hours until they get picked off, most human players are smart enough to realize that a character like this is effectively a rock - safely ignored until there's nothing better to kill.
Then you get ripped apart by an eight on one.
Peace,
-CxE
While monsters will happily attack a WaMo tank for hours until they get picked off, most human players are smart enough to realize that a character like this is effectively a rock - safely ignored until there's nothing better to kill.
Then you get ripped apart by an eight on one.
Peace,
-CxE
tastegw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
WaMos in PvP with self-healing are amusing at best. Sure, you're hard to kill, but no one cares. More importantly, you've gimped your damage output by focusing so much on self defense that you're a non-threat.
While monsters will happily attack a WaMo tank for hours until they get picked off, most human players are smart enough to realize that a character like this is effectively a rock - safely ignored until there's nothing better to kill.
Then you get ripped apart by an eight on one.
Peace,
-CxE i have to beg to differ here, ive play alot of different warrior builds and combos, and the damage output of the war monk is not that much lesser than the others. that is if you bring in the right skill combo's
here is the spread, you begin bleeding for more than 20 seconds taking away 6 life each second, next thing you know your maximum health is about 100 less for another 20 seconds while your bleeding, and if your a caster, you have a slim 60 or so AL.
a war/anything will do just fine against a single target by himself, unless its a monk or another warrior. then its just silly trying to kill them because even if you can, it will take a long time.
but when a war/mo faces a char such as a necro, or a ele, or a mesmer, you stand a fair chance to take them out if that teams monk isnt paying attention.
i myself have taken out plenty of casters with the simple sword setup of s. artery, gash, g. slash, and final thrust. the key is , is to take the backdoor route to them so they dont see you sneaking up on them, and just hack and slash away, when they get near to low health and are too far from their monk, they start to run,.....but bleeding is still killing them.
While monsters will happily attack a WaMo tank for hours until they get picked off, most human players are smart enough to realize that a character like this is effectively a rock - safely ignored until there's nothing better to kill.
Then you get ripped apart by an eight on one.
Peace,
-CxE i have to beg to differ here, ive play alot of different warrior builds and combos, and the damage output of the war monk is not that much lesser than the others. that is if you bring in the right skill combo's
here is the spread, you begin bleeding for more than 20 seconds taking away 6 life each second, next thing you know your maximum health is about 100 less for another 20 seconds while your bleeding, and if your a caster, you have a slim 60 or so AL.
a war/anything will do just fine against a single target by himself, unless its a monk or another warrior. then its just silly trying to kill them because even if you can, it will take a long time.
but when a war/mo faces a char such as a necro, or a ele, or a mesmer, you stand a fair chance to take them out if that teams monk isnt paying attention.
i myself have taken out plenty of casters with the simple sword setup of s. artery, gash, g. slash, and final thrust. the key is , is to take the backdoor route to them so they dont see you sneaking up on them, and just hack and slash away, when they get near to low health and are too far from their monk, they start to run,.....but bleeding is still killing them.
Mouth-For-War
Warrior/Monk's wouldnt be THAT bad pvp, I can see they arnt the most useful to a team but they still have there uses.
Try this build I think it'll be a bit better.
Class: Warrior / Monk
Attributes: (cost)
Strength: 10 (61)
Axe Mastery: 11 (77)
Healing Prayers: 10 (61)
Total attribute points used: 199/200
Skills:
1) Sprint - (5,0,20) For 12 seconds, you move 25% faster.
2) Dismember - (7a,0,0) If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a deep wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum health by 20% for 16 seconds.
3) Axe Rake - (7a,0,0) If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for +7 damage, and that foe becomes crippled.
4) Executioner's Strike - (8a,0,0) If this attack hits, you strike for +32 damage.
5) Remove Hex - (5,2,5) Remove a hex from the target ally.
6) Purge Conditions - (5,1/4,30) Remove all conditions from target ally.
7) Healing Breeze - (10,1,2) For 10 seconds, target ally gains health regeneration of 7.
8) Healing Hands (elite) - (5,1/4,25) For 10 seconds, whenever target ally is struck by an attack, that ally is healed for 18 health. This is an elite skill.
One: sprint is better (imo) because you can cast any time.
Two: cripple is pretty much a nessecity in pvp or the caster will just keep runing.
three: non-direct heals, give more focus to damage
Four: With hex and condition removal, you can help out the group (and your self).
Try this build I think it'll be a bit better.
Class: Warrior / Monk
Attributes: (cost)
Strength: 10 (61)
Axe Mastery: 11 (77)
Healing Prayers: 10 (61)
Total attribute points used: 199/200
Skills:
1) Sprint - (5,0,20) For 12 seconds, you move 25% faster.
2) Dismember - (7a,0,0) If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a deep wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum health by 20% for 16 seconds.
3) Axe Rake - (7a,0,0) If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for +7 damage, and that foe becomes crippled.
4) Executioner's Strike - (8a,0,0) If this attack hits, you strike for +32 damage.
5) Remove Hex - (5,2,5) Remove a hex from the target ally.
6) Purge Conditions - (5,1/4,30) Remove all conditions from target ally.
7) Healing Breeze - (10,1,2) For 10 seconds, target ally gains health regeneration of 7.
8) Healing Hands (elite) - (5,1/4,25) For 10 seconds, whenever target ally is struck by an attack, that ally is healed for 18 health. This is an elite skill.
One: sprint is better (imo) because you can cast any time.
Two: cripple is pretty much a nessecity in pvp or the caster will just keep runing.
three: non-direct heals, give more focus to damage
Four: With hex and condition removal, you can help out the group (and your self).
Varggoth
I play a war/monk and there very good it makes it so you can take dmg and not worry about the healer casting on you plus the healer can save his mana and heal himself or other people in need. A war/monk i think is a all around class and if you have the right setup they rule. They do almost as good of dmg as a normal war would do. I seem to kill alot of people and not worry about dieing its fun. Specially in GvG i got hit so much and eveyrone went after the monks so the warrior with no heals would luck out 
.
.
nightrise420
here is what i have. It's crucial to have 12swordsmanship.
12swordmanship (+4 from item)
8strength (+1 from item)
10healingprayer
8smithing i believe not sure
Sever
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust
Frenzy
Vigorous Spirit
Strength of Honor
Live Vacariously
This is good b/c u can cast Vigorous spirit for 30sec and get 20hp everytime you hit. Also u hit really fast, around .8sec. And Strength of honor gives u +7dmg. This is just what i came up just now =D I actually wanna try if it works.
Not to mention u have 1 elite skill left =D i have yet to figure out which skill i should use
12swordmanship (+4 from item)
8strength (+1 from item)
10healingprayer
8smithing i believe not sure
Sever
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust
Frenzy
Vigorous Spirit
Strength of Honor
Live Vacariously
This is good b/c u can cast Vigorous spirit for 30sec and get 20hp everytime you hit. Also u hit really fast, around .8sec. And Strength of honor gives u +7dmg. This is just what i came up just now =D I actually wanna try if it works.
Not to mention u have 1 elite skill left =D i have yet to figure out which skill i should use
Mouth-For-War
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightrise420
here is what i have. It's crucial to have 12swordsmanship.
12swordmanship (+4 from item)
8strength (+1 from item)
10healingprayer
8smithing i believe not sure
Sever
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust
Frenzy
Vigorous Spirit
Strength of Honor
Live Vacariously
Thats a pretty good build, Id just switch out gal. slash for hamstring. also I'm not sure if live Vac. and vig. spirit stack.
12swordmanship (+4 from item)
8strength (+1 from item)
10healingprayer
8smithing i believe not sure
Sever
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust
Frenzy
Vigorous Spirit
Strength of Honor
Live Vacariously
Thats a pretty good build, Id just switch out gal. slash for hamstring. also I'm not sure if live Vac. and vig. spirit stack.
Ensign
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJ24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SuperJ24
is to take the backdoor route to them so they dont see you sneaking up on them, and just hack and slash away, when they get near to low health and are too far from their monk, they start to run,.....but bleeding is still killing them.
I have to take issue with any set of tactics that require your opponents to be both blind and stupid to succeed.
Not that this isn't the case more often than not. Peace, -CxE
walder
I definitely thought you would be going with the Smiting line for an "All out attacker." You definitely made a tank more than a damage build, but I can't say I would play your style. While you are a big help to your Monks, you actually give up quite a bit of damage. Just with Strength of Honor alone, you are losing close to 80 damage every 10 seconds, which is an extra Galrath on a low AL target.
Also, how could you not use Frenzy. For a while I didn't use it that much, but now its the first skill I put down for Warrior builds. The only melee builds I don't use Frenzy in are IW builds where Flurry is best and R/W where I consider using Tiger's Fury.
tastegw
ensign,
think of the king of the hill battles, and 3 teams duking it out. one team stays behind and waits a few minutes while the other two teams go at it. where do most of the ranged casters and monks from the team that doesnt control the hill stand? those making easy targets for the 3rd team. that was what i was thinking when i made my post.
Ensign
I'm saying that any team in that fight that doesn't know where the third team is and what they are doing deserves to lose. Messily.
Peace, -CxE
Nash
Healers can heal for 200 for 5 energy, and are dedicated to healing. They're like 3 times as effective for healing compared to your pitiful self-heals. Yet people insist to waste time and energy on self-healing. It's a confidence problem. People don't want to rely on other people for survival, and they need to get over that if they want to be really good, because this is a team game.
Xellos
Hey Ensign, in your opinion, is Judge's Insight worth it on the High damage warrior? The payoff is great, but the 2 second cast looks ugly to me. Second, is that tombs build supposedly better then even the conjure offensive builds? Since you know, you get 2 bars of energy instead of 1, and 60 seconds is pretty good for 10 energy. I'm not really high on restore life
 since I like insta-rez from teamates instead, but Final Thrust doesn't seem that great of a payoff when you already have 3 adrenaline skills.
Jia Xu
ok, so here is what i finished up with after messing around with energy costs etc.
Class: Warrior / Monk Assumed items: +1 to Strength +2 to Axe Mastery Attributes: (cost) Strength: 8+1 (37) Axe Mastery: 12+2 (97) Smiting Prayers: 10 (61) Total attribute points used: 195/200 Skills: 1) Cleave (elite) - (4a,0,0) If this attack hits, you strike for +24 damage. This is an elite skill. 2) Dismember - (7a,0,0) If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a deep wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum health by 20% for 19 seconds. 3) Axe Twist - (8a,0,0) If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for 19 more damage and that foe suffers from weakness. 4) Axe Rake - (7a,0,0) If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for +9 damage, and that foe becomes crippled. 5) Berserker Stance - (5,0,30) For 9 seconds, you attack 33% faster than normal and gain 20% more adrenaline each time you hit in melee. Berserker Stance ends if you use a skill. 6) Balthazar's Spirit - (10+,2,0) While you maintain this enchantment, target ally gains adrenaline and energy after taking damage. 7) Judge's Insight - (10,2,10) For 16 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and have +20% armor penetration. 8) Strength of Honor - (10+,2,0) While you maintain this enchantment, target ally deals 7 more damage in melee. Keep strength of Honor on whenever you are anywhere near enemies, use judges insight and beserker right after entering first couple of melee blows, and get the adren for a dismember then an axe rake, so the enemy isnt going anywhere quickly. Get balthazars spirit on now, as you will start to become a target if you are gunning for monks etc. , and use your extra adrenaline to smash a lot of nasty Axe attacks. - i don't play a warrior ingame, so some feedback would be nice, i was considering making an alternative Warrior to all the W/Mo our guild always seems to have 
tektonik
Oh noes Axe Twist and weakness!!! those monks will be hurting now....
Since I love you tho and pity DW I will suggest Executioners strike over Axe Twist. lessthan3 nightrise420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jia Xu
ok, so here is what i finished up with after messing around with energy costs etc.
Class: Warrior / Monk Assumed items: +1 to Strength +2 to Axe Mastery Attributes: (cost) Strength: 8+1 (37) Axe Mastery: 12+2 (97) Smiting Prayers: 10 (61) Total attribute points used: 195/200 Skills: 1) Cleave (elite) - (4a,0,0) If this attack hits, you strike for +24 damage. This is an elite skill. 2) Dismember - (7a,0,0) If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a deep wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum health by 20% for 19 seconds. 3) Axe Twist - (8a,0,0) If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for 19 more damage and that foe suffers from weakness. 4) Axe Rake - (7a,0,0) If this attack hits a foe suffering from a deep wound, you strike for +9 damage, and that foe becomes crippled. 5) Berserker Stance - (5,0,30) For 9 seconds, you attack 33% faster than normal and gain 20% more adrenaline each time you hit in melee. Berserker Stance ends if you use a skill. 6) Balthazar's Spirit - (10+,2,0) While you maintain this enchantment, target ally gains adrenaline and energy after taking damage. 7) Judge's Insight - (10,2,10) For 16 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and have +20% armor penetration. 8) Strength of Honor - (10+,2,0) While you maintain this enchantment, target ally deals 7 more damage in melee. Keep strength of Honor on whenever you are anywhere near enemies, use judges insight and beserker right after entering first couple of melee blows, and get the adren for a dismember then an axe rake, so the enemy isnt going anywhere quickly. Get balthazars spirit on now, as you will start to become a target if you are gunning for monks etc. , and use your extra adrenaline to smash a lot of nasty Axe attacks. - i don't play a warrior ingame, so some feedback would be nice, i was considering making an alternative Warrior to all the W/Mo our guild always seems to have
Well, I dont like Judge's Insight b/c it has 2sec cast which is really ugly. So i would throw that out. Also if u have Balthazurs aura and Live Vacarously, U gain no mana regen.
baranovan
Nash's Axe Warrior build:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ght=eviscerate
Nash
Cleave is looking pretty nice now for an Axe build... It stopped being a total suckage Elite. So replace Eviscerate with Cleave and Axe Rake with Disrupting Chop in that build, and get someone else with snares.
baranovan
Hmm... why switch Eviscerate with Cleave? Is it the adrenaline?
Jia Xu
well the axe rake is in there so that my build can do more than just take on casters, if a mesmer wants to be fiddling around with fragility + Epidemic etc, then all conditions help. And why pity us? considering we only started GvGing on Saturday afternoon, i think we did quite well to come 8th on the ladder, if we hadn't lost our last 2 matches we would have stayed 4th
but oh well, GvG was good fun :P
Ensign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos
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Quote: Originally Posted by Xellos Second, is that tombs build supposedly better then even the conjure offensive builds? Well it comes down to this - do you have a weapon with natural elemental damage that you can use zealous with? Or do you have to spend your weapon hilt/haft to elementalize your weapon for conjure? If you can run Zealous + Conjure, I think you can make a valid argument for going W/E, but if you cannot I'd rather stick to SoH + Zealous. Conjure isn't worth giving up Zealous, basically - it's just too much energy to give away casually.
That said I have issues with W/Es in general because they give up so much versatility for a slight boost in damage. I think this gets touched on a bit by:
Quote:
I'm not really high on restore life since I like insta-rez from teamates instead
Well this is where you see the difference between tombs and GvG. In GvG I'm perfectly willing to just go with a Resmer and maybe a Glyph/Res on the team to get key people back up quickly, but otherwise you can just lean on the auto-res. In tombs there are just too many maps without the auto-res to casually toss out Restore Life. Even in the hall, you can often pull of a Restore Life simply because there are other teams causing a distraction. Sure, you don't want a WaMo as your primary Res, but it's a needed fallback option.
More generally, there are a lot of little things that a team needs to be able to do - res, enchantment/hex removal, interrupt, hate out Warrior trains, etc. All of that on top of primary functions like dealing damage and healing. Any class combination or specific character build that cannot contribute to rounding out a Tombs team gets a *huge* black mark in my book. Being a one trick pony works alright in arena with random teams, but once you have to start planning for contingencies the lack of versatility really starts to strain a team. Just carrying Restore Life as a fallback plan if the Resmer goes down takes a huge strain off of your team.
since I like insta-rez from teamates instead
Well this is where you see the difference between tombs and GvG. In GvG I'm perfectly willing to just go with a Resmer and maybe a Glyph/Res on the team to get key people back up quickly, but otherwise you can just lean on the auto-res. In tombs there are just too many maps without the auto-res to casually toss out Restore Life. Even in the hall, you can often pull of a Restore Life simply because there are other teams causing a distraction. Sure, you don't want a WaMo as your primary Res, but it's a needed fallback option.More generally, there are a lot of little things that a team needs to be able to do - res, enchantment/hex removal, interrupt, hate out Warrior trains, etc. All of that on top of primary functions like dealing damage and healing. Any class combination or specific character build that cannot contribute to rounding out a Tombs team gets a *huge* black mark in my book. Being a one trick pony works alright in arena with random teams, but once you have to start planning for contingencies the lack of versatility really starts to strain a team. Just carrying Restore Life as a fallback plan if the Resmer goes down takes a huge strain off of your team.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xellos
but Final Thrust doesn't seem that great of a payoff when you already have 3 adrenaline skills.
The great thing about Final Thrust is just how fast you can knock someone out with it if you see an opening. Sever/Gash/Final Thrust will take someone from near half health to dead in just over two seconds, and that's something that I'm not going to just overlook.
Lose all adrenaline can be harsh, though. Don't be relying on a bunch of adrenal skills for damage if you're using it. Peace, -CxE
Raumoheru
i have played this build quit a bit and found it to be a very nice tank. although people will be "smart enough" to move on to something else, you can easily take them out when they are running (bull's strike)
Xellos Thanks Ensign! This makes alot more sense to me now.Just as a side note though, you do realize that during the April BWE, the new dragon sword drops were no longer innate in elemental damage? Maybe it's just me, but all the dragon sword drops I saw (5-8 or so) were all blue "fiery dragon sword of XXX" or just Fiery Dragon Sword with blue text. The old ones that retained were purple, but I don't believe they drop anymore unless someone can confirm it. So this leaves me the impression that War/Ele can't even be used because zealous is important (I agree with this point, the property is very important )Lastly, would you ever consider sever/gash/galraths/final thrust in the same build? Again thanks!
baranovan
That's what my warrior had for his attack skills + frenzy.
Varggoth
Again war/monks with self-heals are not pointless alot of time i save myself with them. Plus its a good all around build pve and pvp which is very fun. If someone sees a self-heal warrior they probaly wouldnt bother attacking them this gives them the advantage they can just wail on you and kill you so its not so pointless.
Xellos
Varggoth, PVP is totally different from PVE. Self-Sufficient characters usually die out
Like Paladin type War/Monks. Read above, you'll see why.
baranovan
Regardless of whether you have self-heal or not, you will still be ignored.
Raumoheru
well no that is not true the only characters that i really did good with in PvP were actually ones that could heal themselves.
we won 8 fights in a row with my dude who could heal himself and res others.
Nash
You won in the Arena? Arena is dumb.
Self-healing has no place in real PvP. Healers are much more efficient at healing so let them handle it. Otherwise you're wasting time and energy at not doing your job, which is killing the damn enemy.
Raumoheru
which is what the mending and live vicariously allows u to do
since it is constantly there u dont need to take time healing and can just sit and fight and with a 11 10 10 build it doesnt take much away from your fighting ability
Nash
It takes energy, attribute points and skill slots, on something you don't need and thus only makes your char less effective.
Self-healing is for people with team confidence problems who have trouble relying on others. Xellos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
You won in the Arena? Arena is dumb.
Self-healing has no place in real PvP. Healers are much more efficient at healing so let them handle it. Otherwise you're wasting time and energy at not doing your job, which is killing the damn enemy. I believe that is a lie :P Protection Prayers is more efficient at healing! Because the damage their targets take is much smaller! Gogo Shield of Imba!
Nash
Protection is better at healing? No, it's damage prevention not healing. It's also very inflexible and can be wasted against a good team that knows when to switch targets.
Xellos
Yeah, but it doens't suffer from deep wound :P
Raumoheru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Protection is better at healing? No, it's damage prevention not healing. It's also very inflexible and can be wasted against a good team that knows when to switch targets.
he doesnt mean it literaly, it is just an old philosophy that prevention before it happens is better then trying to fix it after it happens.
Xellos
I was referring to enchantments being a bit too strong ^_^
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