R\W? - Can it Work?

expertise only affects the cost of ranger skills, so unless he goes all ranger then theres not really a reason to go high in that. thats not true. expertise affects all attack skills, which basically only excludes spells, no matter what proffesion its from

expertise only affects the cost of ranger skills, so unless he goes all ranger then theres not really a reason to go high in that. Expertise: For each rank of Expertise the energy cost of your skills of types "skill", "attack skill", "glyph", "preparations", "nature ritual", "shout", "stance" and "trap" decreases by 4%.

That's for any skill, whether it's a necromancer's "Vile Touch", a Monk's "Smite" or a warrior's "Cyclone Axe".

R/W is typically used to minimise the energy costs of both ranger and warrior skills, using expertise. You could for example blend Expertise with Wilderness Survival, a melee weapon and a bit of tactics. Using runes for the Expertise and Wilderness Survival allows you to put a bit more into your weapon, and tactics can be high enough for a good shield. Most also have a 3 in Beast mastery, which they use a minor rune for to get Tiger's Fury up to 7 seconds duration, as TF has no weapon damage reduction or increased damage suffered.

Use frenzy until you get flurry, then switch to flurry. IMO, the purpose of a warrior secondary for a ranger is the attack speed boosts and basically the entire tactics line. Tiger's Fury is a better attack speed boost than either of the others really.

I agree that Tactics is a nice line, you could make a case for a Ranger type using a bow and the tactics line, but I always liked the expertise, wilderness survival and melee weapon approach.

Tiger's Fury is a better attack speed boost than either of the others really.

I agree that Tactics is a nice line, you could make a case for a Ranger type using a bow and the tactics line, but I always liked the expertise, wilderness survival and melee weapon approach. Isn't Tiger's Fury a BM skill though?

If so, what other BM skills would you use?

R/W With Tiger's Fury, For Great Justice and Irresistible Blow spammage is fairly powerful.

Edit:If you going to have 14 expertise, then go ahead and grab oath shot and lightning Reflexes. for 75% of the battle you should have 33% attack speed, 75% evasion, and double adrenaline. tiger's fury would be a bad choice because it only lasts for 5 sec if you dont wilderness survival. i think ranger li's build is a lost cause if he/she chooses to use a bow and sword

Isn't Tiger's Fury a BM skill though?

If so, what other BM skills would you use? None. You get 7 seconds duration out of it at 4 BM, so 3+1 does it easily;

you end up with increased attacks 70% of the time, at full damage, for an equivalent of roughly 135% damage output,
compared to increased attack speed but reduced damage (Flurry) resulting in about 120% damage output (1.5*.8)
or Increased attack speed (150% damage output) but suffering double damage (Frenzy)

Given the choices, I find that the 6 attribute points to get level 3 BM are easy to spare, and a minor beast mastery rune sells for about diddley squat, so it's easily acquired. Granted, if you are relying on the frequency of hit by a more significant margin it might be worth the extra speed that flurry gives (for example, kindle arrows+conjure fire may be better off with flurry). Since you multiply the bonus damage by 1.5 for flurry and only 1.35 for TF; let X equal the percentage of your damage per shot coming from the arrow; you get the equivalence point from an equation that states that X*1.35+(1-X)1.35 = X*1.2+(1-X)*1.5, or you break even when the bonus damage per shot is equal to the bow/weapon damage per shot - now, you need to take criticals into account, as well as damage bonuses from higher marksmanship/weaponskill, but essentially, for a customised bow at 15-28 damage with a 15% bonus above 50% and a marksmanship of 12 for example you break even at about 30 bonus damage per shot - so if you are adding less than 30 damage per shot from conjure/prep/ritual you are better off with a 7 second Tiger's Fury; if you add more than 30 damage per shot you are better off with Flurry. Flurry and Frenzy have the additional advantage of hitting the cost reduction breakpoints at slightly low expertise values, hitting 3 cost at 8 Expertise rather than TF which hits 6 at 9 Expertise, and hitting 2 cost at 13 Expertise while TF hits 4 cost at 14 Expertise.

It does depend to some extent on the skills involved, but the very small investment seems worth it to me, possibly because I don't stack as much on my bow/sword. It is a valid point though, that with effects triggered on hitting it may be worth using Flurry over TF if there is enough damage/effect added. The above is based on the multiplier for Flurry being 80%, or .8; I don't know what the actual damage reduction is, but this number was listed in one of the posts about Flurry. Obviously, if the damage reduction of flurry is a little bigger you'll need a larger percentage of the damage coming from the bonus (This is assuming that the damage from the buff is a separate source, like kindle or conjure is; I don't know if something like Favourable winds adds to the physical weapon damae in which case it may count on the other side.) As well, with more investment in BM you could bias it towards TF, with less in BM you'd bias it toward Flurry.