I see lots of posts in various forums from Rangers, Necros, and Mesmers about their difficulties in finding groups, or difficulty with the group they do find understanding just what they are doing. I believe a big part of this is simply that GW is still a very new game, and many people you see are probably playing their first character.
For someone new to GW, the classes of Warrior, Elementalist, and Monk are pretty straightforward. You can come here from pretty much any RPG and figure out a decent build for either of those three and probably use them fairly effectively. But Ranger, Necro, and Mesmer are more subtle builds, exploting them to max effectiveness pretty much requires you to have a good understanding of the combat/spell mechanics of GW.
So a lot of people are probably avoiding these three at first (both in creating them and in grouping with them) because they simply don't understand yet the power of them. My guess is that over the next couple of months we'll see this issue gradually disappear as the playerbase becomes filled with more people who understand the game better. Also you'll start seeing more and more of these three classes played up to their potential, and that will help spread the word that these are -not- weak classes, just subtle/complex ones.
Keep In Mind That GW Is A Very Young MMORPG
Vorlin
Aniewiel
GW isn't really an MMORPG. I've said this a bunch but I'll say it one more time because...well...I like to say it. 
GW is more of an FPS with RPG elements thrown in. While set in a fairly "high fantasy" environment, you are basically "shooting" monsters and, certainly in PvP, you are chasing after the opposing team (much like Unreal Tournament). The RPG elements come into play with quests and somewhat with the leveling (though even that is very limited).
I agree to a point that warriors, fire casters and healers are well-represented in RPGs though I would also argue that necromancers and rangers (definitely) are as well. They just have to find their niche within this so-called hybrid game. But you are absolutely correct that, as time goes on, the appreciation of the lesser-played classes will go up.
And, welcome by the way!
GW is more of an FPS with RPG elements thrown in. While set in a fairly "high fantasy" environment, you are basically "shooting" monsters and, certainly in PvP, you are chasing after the opposing team (much like Unreal Tournament). The RPG elements come into play with quests and somewhat with the leveling (though even that is very limited).
I agree to a point that warriors, fire casters and healers are well-represented in RPGs though I would also argue that necromancers and rangers (definitely) are as well. They just have to find their niche within this so-called hybrid game. But you are absolutely correct that, as time goes on, the appreciation of the lesser-played classes will go up.
And, welcome by the way!
Calrisian Nantos
Some people also havent witnessed the power of an all ranger trapping team,or an all necro minion/horror team,it is truly amazing sometimes
Aniewiel
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Originally Posted by Calrisian Nantos
Some people also havent witnessed the power of an all ranger trapping team,or an all necro minion/horror team,it is truly amazing sometimes
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AgentG
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Originally Posted by Aniewiel
GW is more of an FPS with RPG elements thrown in. |
Mormegil
I totally agree with you. Nice and well thought out post, finally something original.
Arthur Eld
A First-Person-Shooter? Guild Wars? Well, I think I'm gonna go play my favorite pencil and paper RPG, Quake 3.
Lethal_Poison
Isnt Guild Wars in third person anyway? How can it be a first person anything if you can visibly see your character on the screen running around? Wolfenstein is a FPS, Halo is a FPS, Guild Wars couldnt even be mistaken for one.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison
Isnt Guild Wars in third person anyway? How can it be a first person anything if you can visibly see your character on the screen running around? Wolfenstein is a FPS, Halo is a FPS, Guild Wars couldnt even be mistaken for one.
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you can't play Guild Wars in first person??? funny...everyone else can
Epinephrine
GW is close to being an FPS in some ways - if you use the first person perspective it really feels much more like one. It doesn't target by your direction though, but instead by the target selection process, which is much less FPS-like. I'd agree that GW is not an MMORPG, and is an action RPG.
As to the actual topic; yes, it is young - in addition, people are dumb. And loathe to try new things. I remember thinking it would be fun to try missions with only rangers for example; Iwas right, it was fun, aand successful. Teamwork and good players are a great combination, and nothing enforces team play like not having a monk Now, I doubt this would work in later areas, but it is fun and teaches you a lot about your character.
As to the actual topic; yes, it is young - in addition, people are dumb. And loathe to try new things. I remember thinking it would be fun to try missions with only rangers for example; Iwas right, it was fun, aand successful. Teamwork and good players are a great combination, and nothing enforces team play like not having a monk
Now, I doubt this would work in later areas, but it is fun and teaches you a lot about your character.
BurningPants
It's been many months since the game has come out and I have noticed a few different things. For the first time when someone saw a mesmer in their party they said "Oh good, a mesmer" instead of "Oh, a mesmer...".
Hopefully though people read up on the game before they buy it, if i had known how complex mesmers could be, I might have made that my first character instead of a warrior. But for now, calling people who don't like a certain class a "newb" is a good way to go.
Hopefully though people read up on the game before they buy it, if i had known how complex mesmers could be, I might have made that my first character instead of a warrior. But for now, calling people who don't like a certain class a "newb" is a good way to go.
AgentG
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
I'd agree that GW is not an MMORPG, and is an action RPG.
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Teklord
Guild Wars if FPS in only one way: when you are zoomed all the way in and looking through your character eyes. That is all, and that is minor.
Guild Wars is MMO in the Towns/Outposts/Misison Sites.
Guild Wars is regular ol' action RPG everywhere else. More specifically Co-op RPG in the same respect my friends and I used to get together to Co-op Diablo II.
Its not a tradition MMORPG, in more ways than one. Yet is is much closer to that than an FPS...
Guild Wars is MMO in the Towns/Outposts/Misison Sites.
Guild Wars is regular ol' action RPG everywhere else. More specifically Co-op RPG in the same respect my friends and I used to get together to Co-op Diablo II.
Its not a tradition MMORPG, in more ways than one. Yet is is much closer to that than an FPS...
Aniewiel
When I said FPS, smarties, I meant it resembled one much moreso than an RPG. 
I certainly didn't mean that the game itself was 1st person. Sheesh...I'm not quite that dumb.
When I said that it resembled an FPS I meant mechanically: You run around and kill things. In PvE, you add quests and missions into the mix to give it an RPGish feel. In PvP it is really no different that most team-based shooters: My team kills your team.
Action RPG? That works.
I certainly didn't mean that the game itself was 1st person. Sheesh...I'm not quite that dumb. When I said that it resembled an FPS I meant mechanically: You run around and kill things. In PvE, you add quests and missions into the mix to give it an RPGish feel. In PvP it is really no different that most team-based shooters: My team kills your team.
Action RPG? That works.
Ultimate_Gaara
thats all GW really is its a 3d version of Diablo, which isnt hard to understand seeing how the same people who worked on that game worked on this
as for the thinking that this is a MMO.. maybe when your in a town where there are like 50 people yelling "WTS".. but after that you loose all sight of any mmo factor
as for the thinking that this is a MMO.. maybe when your in a town where there are like 50 people yelling "WTS".. but after that you loose all sight of any mmo factor
Digital Bath
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Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara
thats all GW really is its a 3d version of Diablo, which isnt hard to understand seeing how the same people who worked on that game worked on this
as for the thinking that this is a MMO.. maybe when your in a town where there are like 50 people yelling "WTS".. but after that you loose all sight of any mmo factor |
And, if anything, GW is an online Morrowind.
PieXags
Yeah, just one thing.
Don't suggest that GuildWars isn't an RPG. It might not be a "MMORPG" but it IS an RPG. The only one who can decide that is the developers, and here it is from their mouths (fingers).
"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game)."
From the GW website, it IS an RPG.
Don't suggest that GuildWars isn't an RPG. It might not be a "MMORPG" but it IS an RPG. The only one who can decide that is the developers, and here it is from their mouths (fingers).
"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game)."
From the GW website, it IS an RPG.
Vorlin
I'd never argue terminology (RPG, FPS, whatever) because in my experience -everyone- is right: if GW feels like an FPS to you then it is, etc. -Anything- can be an RPG, two kids with sticks standing in cardboard boxes are RPGing that they are pirates on the open seas.
The reason I used MMORPG to describe GW is that in the context of my post that definition seems most fitting. It's been my experience (I started online gaming back when Federation first opened up on AOL) over the years that it takes about a year for a new online RPG (whether a Mud or an MMORPG) to 'settle down', i.e. to get the balance worked out and to get a playerbase that understands and utilizes that balance properly.
GW might settle down faster than that when it comes to balance, because IMO ANet has done a beautiful job balancing the classes (so far noone has come up with an uncounterable PvP combo, and that's a sign of good balance). And, of course, when it comes to players some people learn faster than others. But, like I said, in my experience it takes about a year for the 'group dynamic' to settle down into a more or less stable form (more stable if ANet makes relatively few game changes from then on, less stable if the game is altered in significant ways fairly frequently).
In a way, it's most fun in many ways when things aren't settled down yet. That's when you can see some real creativity in action (both in PvE and PvP). Considering how many combos one character can run, and considering the additional factor of the ways an organized group can exploit a custom design (where each member has a specific set of skills/spells so that the group as a whole can execute a certain combat strategy) I expect to see some new and very interesting PvP/PvE designs over the next few months (at least).
The reason I used MMORPG to describe GW is that in the context of my post that definition seems most fitting. It's been my experience (I started online gaming back when Federation first opened up on AOL) over the years that it takes about a year for a new online RPG (whether a Mud or an MMORPG) to 'settle down', i.e. to get the balance worked out and to get a playerbase that understands and utilizes that balance properly.
GW might settle down faster than that when it comes to balance, because IMO ANet has done a beautiful job balancing the classes (so far noone has come up with an uncounterable PvP combo, and that's a sign of good balance). And, of course, when it comes to players some people learn faster than others. But, like I said, in my experience it takes about a year for the 'group dynamic' to settle down into a more or less stable form (more stable if ANet makes relatively few game changes from then on, less stable if the game is altered in significant ways fairly frequently).
In a way, it's most fun in many ways when things aren't settled down yet. That's when you can see some real creativity in action (both in PvE and PvP). Considering how many combos one character can run, and considering the additional factor of the ways an organized group can exploit a custom design (where each member has a specific set of skills/spells so that the group as a whole can execute a certain combat strategy) I expect to see some new and very interesting PvP/PvE designs over the next few months (at least).
Lasareth
I always thought of GW as a watered down card game like MTG :P
You have a "deck" of skills and gotta match it against others, using counters, time limited skills, and the like to beat the other guys' skillsets.
It's just a little more complicated due to having 8 people doing it at once, and having time as the limiting factor instead of turn numbers.
You have a "deck" of skills and gotta match it against others, using counters, time limited skills, and the like to beat the other guys' skillsets.
It's just a little more complicated due to having 8 people doing it at once, and having time as the limiting factor instead of turn numbers.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Lasareth
I always thought of GW as a watered down card game like MTG :P
You have a "deck" of skills and gotta match it against others, using counters, time limited skills, and the like to beat the other guys' skillsets. It's just a little more complicated due to having 8 people doing it at once, and having time as the limiting factor instead of turn numbers. |
the time in this game is a turn...your idea is pretty spot on accurate.
Blow_Holez
Digital, i think there was 2 major people who worked on Diablo that came and made guild wars. I gotta chk out some stuff to make sure of exact numbers and names, as well as their role in maing both games.
Itichi Uchiha
I agree with lasereth its alot like a tcg except real time and with a team
Dax
It's like a FPS in the fact that cities (towns, settlements, ect) are like lobbies where people can meet up and PvP or do quests, missions ect. Like a RPG in the fact of the whole character building thing....but the MMO part is really only seen in towns (or camps, settlements ect)
I think most of the stigma attached to some classes aren't so much that the game is new (how many people have played through multiple times already) but because of view that 'Ranger Sucks' or 'Necro Sucks' and anything without a Monk in the mix is worthless. Personally I like being a necro, and if people don't like that I'm just as happy with henchies.
I think most of the stigma attached to some classes aren't so much that the game is new (how many people have played through multiple times already) but because of view that 'Ranger Sucks' or 'Necro Sucks' and anything without a Monk in the mix is worthless. Personally I like being a necro, and if people don't like that I'm just as happy with henchies.
Phades
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
the time in this game is a turn...your idea is pretty spot on accurate.
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A FPS with RPG elements is planetside or magestorm.
For the action/rpg its close, except for the large portion of the skill application doesnt have alot to do with the actual manipulation of the controls. You dont need to press "w,s,s,a" within a certain timeframe in order to use one particular skill instead of another one.
Its not so much a strategy game as there is no wide changes that occur between fights or any kind of resource management leading to unit organization and the majority of the game occurs within the mission. Which would lead it to a more tactical than strategic domain.
Not that it really matters what people call the game genre its supposed to fit within, but it did grow tiring when i still bothered to read game reviews and magazines when the game was called an "rpg" when in reality it was another genre type with rpg elements. Of course it could be argued that you are playing the role of said character in whatever setting, but then it would make every game a role playing game.....
"Adventure" is the word you guys are searching for. Not quite legend of zelda esque in terms of player control, but that is where the rpg elements come into play with the automated follow, attack sequence, and spell casting times.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Phades
Especially when you factor things in like casting time and after cast. The only difference is that you cant slap down multiple spells in the same turn.
A FPS with RPG elements is planetside or magestorm. For the action/rpg its close, except for the large portion of the skill application doesnt have alot to do with the actual manipulation of the controls. You dont need to press "w,s,s,a" within a certain timeframe in order to use one particular skill instead of another one. Its not so much a strategy game as there is no wide changes that occur between fights or any kind of resource management leading to unit organization and the majority of the game occurs within the mission. Which would lead it to a more tactical than strategic domain. Not that it really matters what people call the game genre its supposed to fit within, but it did grow tiring when i still bothered to read game reviews and magazines when the game was called an "rpg" when in reality it was another genre type with rpg elements. Of course it could be argued that you are playing the role of said character in whatever setting, but then it would make every game a role playing game..... "Adventure" is the word you guys are searching for. Not quite legend of zelda esque in terms of player control, but that is where the rpg elements come into play with the automated follow, attack sequence, and spell casting times. |
as I see this game (from a programmers point of view) it IS very much turn based...it's just that my turn isn't dependant on yours and your turn isn't dependant on some third party. The turns are independant...but they're still quite obvious.
I definately agree...this game defiantely feels very Zelda like in genre. Not quite adventure...not quite RPG...but somewhere in the middle....content with being a little of both.
P.S. Magestorm was one of the most fantastic games I've ever played =) I still remember stealing a new credit card every week just so I could play it
(hey YOU were 14 once too)
Phades
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
as I see this game (from a programmers point of view) it IS very much turn based...it's just that my turn isn't dependant on yours and your turn isn't dependant on some third party. The turns are independant...but they're still quite obvious.
I definately agree...this game defiantely feels very Zelda like in genre. Not quite adventure...not quite RPG...but somewhere in the middle....content with being a little of both. P.S. Magestorm was one of the most fantastic games I've ever played =) I still remember stealing a new credit card every week just so I could play it (hey YOU were 14 once too) |
Time slices are easier to code and balance i think, which gives it the turn based feel.
Dax
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
as I see this game (from a programmers point of view) it IS very much turn based...it's just that my turn isn't dependant on yours and your turn isn't dependant on some third party. The turns are independant...but they're still quite obvious.
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It's like a RPG as a character progresses through a storyline building up skills levels, ect. But it's only multiplayer with a small group, only massive in the areas where groups form.
Teklord
Anyone who has played X-Com: Apocalypse (1994) knows the difference between a Turn Based game and a Real Time game. Simply because that game demonstrated both quiet clearly. Hardly anything is actual Turn Based anymore.
I miss X-Com, wish they'd make new ones... anyway.
I miss X-Com, wish they'd make new ones... anyway.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Teklord
Anyone who has played X-Com: Apocalypse (1994) knows the difference between a Turn Based game and a Real Time game. Simply because that game demonstrated both quiet clearly. Hardly anything is actual Turn Based anymore.
I miss X-Com, wish they'd make new ones... anyway. |
<3 Final Fantasy and it's old school battle systems
Teklord
I only started at Final Fantasy 7, wish I had gottin in to some of the earlier once. FF tells the best storylines... IMO.
Dax
Worms! in the guild war universe
Yen-lo-wang
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Originally Posted by Dax
Worms! in the guild war universe
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Grawl Bomb anyone?
Phades
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Originally Posted by Yen-lo-wang
Now THAT would be funny!
Grawl Bomb anyone? |
Ashley Twig
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Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison
How can it be a first person anything if you can visibly see your character on the screen running around?
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Watersong
It's not so much an FPS as it is a TPS. Third person shooter.
Weezer_Blue
I stopped reading at your title.
Guild Wars (is supposed to be) a very young CORPG. Either you saw through a marketing sham, or you were misinformed.
Guild Wars (is supposed to be) a very young CORPG. Either you saw through a marketing sham, or you were misinformed.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
I stopped reading at your title.
Guild Wars (is supposed to be) a very young CORPG. Either you saw through a marketing sham, or you were misinformed. |
I love how ArenaNet, in an attempt to be different for no reason other than being different, labels the game a CORPG...and all of a sudden there's a new genre of video gaming....
Weezer_Blue
which is why I listed marketing sham as a possibility.
Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
which is why I listed marketing sham as a possibility.
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ya...I didn't mean to reply to you specifically...but your post was the only one that mentioned CORPG...which IS a marketing sham(atleast as far as I'm concerned).
dargon
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Originally Posted by Digital Bath
Gah! The people who made Diablo DID NOT work on this game. Everyone just seems to assume that, and it is not the truth. The majority of the original Diablo team went and made their own company, "Flagship Studios." Maybe 1, if that, worked on GW that were from Diablo but that's it.
And, if anything, GW is an online Morrowind. |
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| ArenaNet, a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCsoft Corporation, was founded by key members of the creative teams that developed the hit games Warcraft, StarCraft, and Diablo, as well as the Battle.net gaming network. |