I would throw my hands up and say goodbye to the MMORPG industry.
Not only the high pressure on designing game features, or writing efficient bug free code the first time around (I am a programmer, no matter how hard I try, there are usually some bugs in my code. maybe I am just a bad programmer, I don't know), but no matter what I do, majority of the player community will call me an idiot/lazyass/stupid/too easy/too tough.
frequent updates: "omgz stop messing with the game and change the builds everyweek"
no updates: "omgz lazy programmers get back to work there has been no update for a whole week!"
increase drop rate: "omgz you are making my rare items I farmed become worthless"
decrease drop rate: "omgz you nerfed drop rates and now it takes me twice as long to farm rate drops"
give the game more PvE contents: "omgz this is a carebear/old/boring/static silly game"
give the game more PvP contents: "omgz we want more missions/quests/pve contetns"
make the level cap 200: "omgz yet another level grind game"
make the level cap 20: "omgz level 20 cap is so lame. when are you releasing new expension to raise the level cap?"
That's my honest feeling after years of playing online games, EverQeust (mostly), AC, AO, counter-strike, etc etc.
If I am a developer for this game, I would...
Xonic
Makkert
/signed this post with all my heart.
devs are treated like dogs.
i am very pleased with all the work they do. they made a few slips (i.e.: taking xp out of pvp, later they returned it), but nobody is errorfree. i think they are doing an outstanding job.
grtz Makk.
devs are treated like dogs.
i am very pleased with all the work they do. they made a few slips (i.e.: taking xp out of pvp, later they returned it), but nobody is errorfree. i think they are doing an outstanding job.
grtz Makk.
Lasareth
I bet they like the money though.
Sagius Truthbarron
To the OP:
/clap
Someone finally states the truth.
/clap
Someone finally states the truth.
Xeno Demachilo
Counter-strike? ...Counterstrike is nothing like guildwars..They barely ever update it, and when they do its due to bugs and hacks..sigh..
Mumblyfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasareth
I bet they like the money though.
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Makkert
everybody likes money. there is nothing wrong with that 8)
Lasareth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mumblyfish
Because programmers are all billionaires; married to an exotic beauty called Fejovia, a condo in every resort, and pools shaped like keyboards.
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Xonic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mumblyfish
Because programmers are all billionaires; married to an exotic beauty called Fejovia, a condo in every resort, and pools shaped like keyboards.
|
wait...
Sagius Truthbarron
I programmed a html script on a BBS message board and now I'm a millionare!
You can be one too if you buy my self-help video "Code Your Way to a Happy Life and Success" today! Only 19.95!
You can be one too if you buy my self-help video "Code Your Way to a Happy Life and Success" today! Only 19.95!
Lasareth
It's pretty ignorant to work as a programmer or developer and live in the la la land of "hey, you know what, everyone's going to like my game!" People work for the money and their OWN satisfaction of creating something good, not to be justified by others. Millions of subscribers help line the wallet, but honestly, you think they'd do this all for free?
Tutompop
Sorry but I don't believe any serious programmer would take what forum monkeys complain about very seriously. No normal human being would. Sure they may consider a suggestion or constructive criticism and toss it around for improvements to their game but the "this suxors" lot are ignored by any and all except their own species.
Thats right you l33t dudes, nobody cares what you think no matter how loud you cry on a forum even if you are a good laugh every now and again. I'm sure the sales of the game and expansions are what tell the programmers just how well their game is received. Not to mention traffic on their servers.
Ok psychic l33t dudes, feel free to tell me that expansions won't sell because you won't buy it and thus represent the majority of people in the community so Anet will fail and you're avatar's ego will be satisfied. Meanwhile when the world starts moving again you can complain about another game that doesn't meet every one of your seemingly endless expectations while the rest of us somehow continue to play guildwars even though you told us the company would go bankrupt.
Thats right you l33t dudes, nobody cares what you think no matter how loud you cry on a forum even if you are a good laugh every now and again. I'm sure the sales of the game and expansions are what tell the programmers just how well their game is received. Not to mention traffic on their servers.
Ok psychic l33t dudes, feel free to tell me that expansions won't sell because you won't buy it and thus represent the majority of people in the community so Anet will fail and you're avatar's ego will be satisfied. Meanwhile when the world starts moving again you can complain about another game that doesn't meet every one of your seemingly endless expectations while the rest of us somehow continue to play guildwars even though you told us the company would go bankrupt.
MSecorsky
I know I'll be buying the bloody thing.
Drakron
I dont know, depends on a lot of factors ... if was released next month I would likely would but next year?
Too far for me to say.
Too far for me to say.
WeiPing
They don't have to shed tears over each post to see tons of negative responses every day and be hurt by it.
It's a huge investment in time. How long was this game under development for...4 years? Ultimately, in my mind, game design isn't something people generally get into for the money. It has the potential to be very good...but I don't think you'll find all that many game programmers making more than 50k per year. For every John Carmack there's a ton of Joe Schmoes.
GW is a great game. I hope the developers never lose sight of that by the constant complaining. If it wasn't such a great game, nobody would care enough to complain.
It's a huge investment in time. How long was this game under development for...4 years? Ultimately, in my mind, game design isn't something people generally get into for the money. It has the potential to be very good...but I don't think you'll find all that many game programmers making more than 50k per year. For every John Carmack there's a ton of Joe Schmoes.
GW is a great game. I hope the developers never lose sight of that by the constant complaining. If it wasn't such a great game, nobody would care enough to complain.
Aniewiel
Being a programmer is like being a teacher: You don't do it for the money. You do it because you love what you do. Being paid for it is the bonus. 
AceSnyp3r
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasareth
I bet they like the money though.
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Spike
You know if they removed pvp it would get rid of 99% of the complainers 
Since thats all pvpers seem to do. complain that is.
Oh and for those people who don't understand sarcasm this was it
Since thats all pvpers seem to do. complain that is.Oh and for those people who don't understand sarcasm this was it
Reiden Argrock
Quote:
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I would throw my hands up and say goodbye to the MMORPG industry. Not only the high pressure on designing game features, or writing efficient bug free code the first time around (I am a programmer, no matter how hard I try, there are usually some bugs in my code. maybe I am just a bad programmer, I don't know), but no matter what I do, majority of the player community will call me an idiot/lazyass/stupid/too easy/too tough. frequent updates: "omgz stop messing with the game and change the builds everyweek" no updates: "omgz lazy programmers get back to work there has been no update for a whole week!" increase drop rate: "omgz you are making my rare items I farmed become worthless" decrease drop rate: "omgz you nerfed drop rates and now it takes me twice as long to farm rate drops" give the game more PvE contents: "omgz this is a carebear/old/boring/static silly game" give the game more PvP contents: "omgz we want more missions/quests/pve contetns" make the level cap 200: "omgz yet another level grind game" make the level cap 20: "omgz level 20 cap is so lame. when are you releasing new expension to raise the level cap?" That's my honest feeling after years of playing online games, EverQeust (mostly), AC, AO, counter-strike, etc etc. |
, after playing these games and having to deal with these kinds of people, I just wouldn't feel right releasing my hard work to a bunch of ungrateful fools, so i'm going behind the lines to work on hardware Quote:
| Being a programmer is like being a teacher: You don't do it for the money. You do it because you love what you do. Being paid for it is the bonus. |
but ya, making games has got to be one of the best jobs ever!
Lorelei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AceSnyp3r
Heh, game development jobs really don't pay that well, and involve a lot of hard work. Money is probably one of the last reasons they're doing it.
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(BTW: noticed your guild's name, trueborn
)
Keegan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock
This is exactly why I'm not going to go into the gaming industry
, after playing these games and having to deal with these kinds of people, I just wouldn't feel right releasing my hard work to a bunch of ungrateful fools, so i'm going behind the lines to work on hardware |
If you decide to become a programmer, you're going to have to deal with customers, no matter what industry you go into. It just so happens that people who play games have extremely differing views on how the game should be run.
While i agree with the OP on the point that the whiny community of most games will never be satisfied, some things are an exaggeration. I don't like removing good, top level drops from the most difficult areas on the game. Creating strategies and assembling groups worthy enough to venture down there should be rewarded for doing so. That seems a little odd to me, but thats just my opinion.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mumblyfish
Because programmers are all billionaires; married to an exotic beauty called Fejovia, a condo in every resort, and pools shaped like keyboards.
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Damon Windwalker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mumblyfish
Because programmers are all billionaires; married to an exotic beauty called Fejovia, a condo in every resort, and pools shaped like keyboards.
|
Exactly the reason I'm going into programming
Wint Aru
The GW fans are pretty mellow compared to the FFXI people.
Jesus you should hear the complaining over there right now over the Ranger nerf. I'll be giving more time to GW for a while until the crabbing dies down
Jesus you should hear the complaining over there right now over the Ranger nerf. I'll be giving more time to GW for a while until the crabbing dies down
Dax
Actually for most programmers it's just a job, it's the producers, developers and publishers that make up most of the desision making process. They are usually the ones to thank for making the descisions good or bad.
Mugon M. Musashi
the devs don't decide of any change
there are other people to think and decide what is to be done
then they give orders to programmers, designers, modelers etc...
the only pressure programmers have is to do their job correctly
there are other people to think and decide what is to be done
then they give orders to programmers, designers, modelers etc...
the only pressure programmers have is to do their job correctly
weeniecj
FYI developers don't listen to cutomers. That is why product management teams exist. They filter all the suggestions/complaints from customers and decide what features make it into the development cycle.
Programmers write code. It's what they are good at. They are most definitely not good at dealing with people. My general rule of thumb is the more socially challenged a programmer is the better he/she is at writing code.
I as a developer get a good laugh when people complain about design decisions that 'I' made. If only they knew...
Now I am not saying this is exactly how it works at Anet, but this is the general way software is managed. If the programmers at Anet do take on this role I feel sorry for them having to be in this situation, but at the same time congratulate them on getting a polished product out the door.
[Edit] Looks like a few of you beat me to the point. At least the truth is out there.
Programmers write code. It's what they are good at. They are most definitely not good at dealing with people. My general rule of thumb is the more socially challenged a programmer is the better he/she is at writing code.
I as a developer get a good laugh when people complain about design decisions that 'I' made. If only they knew...
Now I am not saying this is exactly how it works at Anet, but this is the general way software is managed. If the programmers at Anet do take on this role I feel sorry for them having to be in this situation, but at the same time congratulate them on getting a polished product out the door.
[Edit] Looks like a few of you beat me to the point. At least the truth is out there.
deathwearer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xeno Demachilo
Counter-strike? ...Counterstrike is nothing like guildwars..They barely ever update it, and when they do its due to bugs and hacks..sigh..
|
They also DID listen to a gamer that posted an article on many forum ( this guy was a well know proffessional gamer ) The guy was saying the flaw in competition with the money system. The game was out and being play in competition since a lot of time already. Guess what, they changed it.
Dax
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mugon M. Musashi
the devs don't decide of any change
there are other people to think and decide what is to be done then they give orders to programmers, designers, modelers etc... the only pressure programmers have is to do their job correctly |
Watersong
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:K...ient=firefox-a
CS was updated quite a bit. I played since B6.5 and I just watched all the changes, most of which I didn't like but I still owned. XD AWP rush ftw.
CS was updated quite a bit. I played since B6.5 and I just watched all the changes, most of which I didn't like but I still owned. XD AWP rush ftw.
Mugon M. Musashi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dax
Well, I'm sure it varies...but the devs generally want the game the way they envisioned it, but they are usally quick to see flaws because they know the game inside and out.
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but I'm sure ArenaNet is big enough to have programmers that do nothing else but program
DarkWasp
Haha this has been seen many times.
Valve = "OMGz this game was 2 short and took forever to load it sUcz0rs!" (Cliffe shows up on a Counter-Strike server) "I SAW CLIFFE LAST NIGHT HES SO COOL!"
Jagex = "Fagex nvr baannz teh guyz I reprt, they *** **** ** * ********" (Next thing you see is a dev checking up on the community and their opinion) "Man, this game rockz, ve nver seenn a bettter game in m life! And the devs are sooo godd about banning people fr scsmming!"
Arena.Net = "OMG THEY NERFED MY FARMING SPOT WHAT THE HELL AM I GOING TO DO!?!?!?!" (Gaile Gray shows up in Lions Arch and that district fills up faster than Oink on steroids)
As you can see with Valves situation its not just MMORPGs.
It seems that the average internet gammer acts like a whiney underaged buttkisser that "was a mistake" and his mother is only 16 years older then him.
WHY? Because of the market. The real world market. First a few kids see their older brothers playing an old popular game. Then they decide to try it, and they think its fun so they ell their friends. Next thing you know you got a whole school playing Doom even out of their own house ruling. Then one relocated to a differnt school (ooh how I hate saying that word during the summer) and it spreads too a few other schools. Then next thing you know, on the back of cereal boxes there is a bunch of kids with heads the size of a car saying things like "Can U c my n3w sh00s!?". Then next thing you know random people will spam the chat with "I c4n sp33kk mure l337 t2n U!".
I'm sorry fellas but we are in America's Generation of Minors on Multiplayer Games. AGMMG for short.
Dont get me wrong, 17 year olds can act extremely immaturely too.
I should wright a book. "Revelations (PC style)" Chapter 1 "A Sign, Anime Slowly Fades Away."
Hopefully with better grammar and spelling.
(This message was not written with insulting intentions in anyway, I am just highly displeased with the community in gaming)
Valve = "OMGz this game was 2 short and took forever to load it sUcz0rs!" (Cliffe shows up on a Counter-Strike server) "I SAW CLIFFE LAST NIGHT HES SO COOL!"
Jagex = "Fagex nvr baannz teh guyz I reprt, they *** **** ** * ********" (Next thing you see is a dev checking up on the community and their opinion) "Man, this game rockz, ve nver seenn a bettter game in m life! And the devs are sooo godd about banning people fr scsmming!"
Arena.Net = "OMG THEY NERFED MY FARMING SPOT WHAT THE HELL AM I GOING TO DO!?!?!?!" (Gaile Gray shows up in Lions Arch and that district fills up faster than Oink on steroids)
As you can see with Valves situation its not just MMORPGs.
It seems that the average internet gammer acts like a whiney underaged buttkisser that "was a mistake" and his mother is only 16 years older then him.
WHY? Because of the market. The real world market. First a few kids see their older brothers playing an old popular game. Then they decide to try it, and they think its fun so they ell their friends. Next thing you know you got a whole school playing Doom even out of their own house ruling. Then one relocated to a differnt school (ooh how I hate saying that word during the summer) and it spreads too a few other schools. Then next thing you know, on the back of cereal boxes there is a bunch of kids with heads the size of a car saying things like "Can U c my n3w sh00s!?". Then next thing you know random people will spam the chat with "I c4n sp33kk mure l337 t2n U!".
I'm sorry fellas but we are in America's Generation of Minors on Multiplayer Games. AGMMG for short.
Dont get me wrong, 17 year olds can act extremely immaturely too.
I should wright a book. "Revelations (PC style)" Chapter 1 "A Sign, Anime Slowly Fades Away."
Hopefully with better grammar and spelling.
(This message was not written with insulting intentions in anyway, I am just highly displeased with the community in gaming)
Dax
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mugon M. Musashi
of course it varies (depends on the size of the company)
but I'm sure ArenaNet is big enough to have programmers that do nothing else but program |
I think that's what I said earlier...did I say progammers in there anywhere? I was actually agreeing with you to a degree
Here is what I said: "Well, I'm sure it varies...but the devs generally want the game the way they envisioned it, but they are usally quick to see flaws because they know the game inside and out."
No mention of programmers
In case you missed what I said in a previous post about programmers:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dax
Actually for most programmers it's just a job, it's the producers, developers and publishers that make up most of the desision making process. They are usually the ones to thank for making the descisions good or bad.
|
Ascension
Once you get past all the stupid kids who play this because their grass cutting money isn't enough to ruin WoW, you realize a ton of people play this game becuase the love Anet. To be very honest, GW is a good game. I've made the decision to wait it out here untill they can make it the great game (which it will, in time) simply because Anet is the best group of people around in the business. They haven't sold us out (grins wickedly as he looks at the Blizzard logo on a cd on his shelf), and won't. It's simple, the fine people of Anet rock. Whether or not they can straighten the game out is to be seen, but they still kick ass and everyone's cheering for them. Even people who have quit GW still love Anet, it's rediculously wonderful!
And on the topic of !@#$ing up games, that's definently the management's and stockholder's jobs. The Devs/programmers/support people/etc are there to make it better, it's the CEO who sells you out!
And on the topic of !@#$ing up games, that's definently the management's and stockholder's jobs. The Devs/programmers/support people/etc are there to make it better, it's the CEO who sells you out!
Xonic
when I said programmer I was just generalizing, I included designers developers etc, the whole team, you know.
Shadow_Avenger
I agree with the OP, well said.
As for programmers being millionaire.
A good programmer will make a good living.
A creative thinking developer with smooth talking will be the millionaire, and he / she will hire the good programmers to code his/her ideas, if they can program its a bonus.
The creative thinking guy/gal can also land flat on his/her rear if their idea a, flops, or b, they don't get backing from the rich.
Money makes money, so you ultimately fall into on or the other, a, You have money and you make it into more,(risk taker) or b, you don't have money and make it for someone else.(wage earner)
Obviously depending on the cards delt the risk taker can become a wage earner or the wage earner can be come the risk taker.
As for programmers being millionaire.
A good programmer will make a good living.
A creative thinking developer with smooth talking will be the millionaire, and he / she will hire the good programmers to code his/her ideas, if they can program its a bonus.
The creative thinking guy/gal can also land flat on his/her rear if their idea a, flops, or b, they don't get backing from the rich.
Money makes money, so you ultimately fall into on or the other, a, You have money and you make it into more,(risk taker) or b, you don't have money and make it for someone else.(wage earner)
Obviously depending on the cards delt the risk taker can become a wage earner or the wage earner can be come the risk taker.
TopGun
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xonic
I would throw my hands up and say goodbye to the MMORPG industry.
Not only the high pressure on designing game features, or writing efficient bug free code the first time around (I am a programmer, no matter how hard I try, there are usually some bugs in my code. maybe I am just a bad programmer, I don't know), but no matter what I do, majority of the player community will call me an idiot/lazyass/stupid/too easy/too tough. frequent updates: "omgz stop messing with the game and change the builds everyweek" no updates: "omgz lazy programmers get back to work there has been no update for a whole week!" increase drop rate: "omgz you are making my rare items I farmed become worthless" decrease drop rate: "omgz you nerfed drop rates and now it takes me twice as long to farm rate drops" give the game more PvE contents: "omgz this is a carebear/old/boring/static silly game" give the game more PvP contents: "omgz we want more missions/quests/pve contetns" make the level cap 200: "omgz yet another level grind game" make the level cap 20: "omgz level 20 cap is so lame. when are you releasing new expension to raise the level cap?" That's my honest feeling after years of playing online games, EverQeust (mostly), AC, AO, counter-strike, etc etc. |
Weezer_Blue
It's important to find the common ground. Unfortunatly, A.Net didn't realize that UAS/Whatever doesn't affect PvEers at all, so shouldn't have been compromised upon. Faction is better than nothing... but fighting 12 or so GB's without a good build sucks, to get a single elite (especially if you recently found/rejoined your guild, cause of that rediculous waiting period, where your faction is about a 4th of it's normal rate).
Ultimate_Gaara
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xonic
I would throw my hands up and say goodbye to the MMORPG industry.
Not only the high pressure on designing game features, or writing efficient bug free code the first time around (I am a programmer, no matter how hard I try, there are usually some bugs in my code. maybe I am just a bad programmer, I don't know), but no matter what I do, majority of the player community will call me an idiot/lazyass/stupid/too easy/too tough. frequent updates: "omgz stop messing with the game and change the builds everyweek" no updates: "omgz lazy programmers get back to work there has been no update for a whole week!" increase drop rate: "omgz you are making my rare items I farmed become worthless" decrease drop rate: "omgz you nerfed drop rates and now it takes me twice as long to farm rate drops" give the game more PvE contents: "omgz this is a carebear/old/boring/static silly game" give the game more PvP contents: "omgz we want more missions/quests/pve contetns" make the level cap 200: "omgz yet another level grind game" make the level cap 20: "omgz level 20 cap is so lame. when are you releasing new expension to raise the level cap?" That's my honest feeling after years of playing online games, EverQeust (mostly), AC, AO, counter-strike, etc etc. |
You took the words right out of my head... people do nothing but moan and complain about everything (mostly farmers), and i for one am sick of it, Anet obviously cares about their gamers or else they wouldnt update at all
so all i really have to say is i love you Anet, everyone of your workers has earned a spot in my heart, and im proud to say that i keep my GW box,bill,book right next to my computer at all times and i think i still have the bag it came in lying around here somewhere
thank you Anet, and keep on nerfing to show them farmers and botters whos boss /not sarcasm (thats right, I fully support nerfing)
and last but not least /agreed cut Anet some slack people
generik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasareth
I bet they like the money though.
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Mugon M. Musashi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xonic
when I said programmer I was just generalizing, I included designers developers etc, the whole team, you know.
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as a designer myself, I am in no way a programmer (and I don't know in the USA but here a programmer and a developper are the same)
but enough with the vocabulary
I think the way Anet handle things has a good side and a bad side
it's good to have frequent updates with bug fixes and improvements
but it's bad to see the game changing too much from what it is
I personaly don't care
everybody should just do the same (it's just a game)