Skill, Not Grind

Yeah maybe in GvG or the Hall of Heros, but as far as the 4v4 random arenas this is a complete joke.

How can the skill for example of a lvl 10 elementalist using armor from Ascalon and skills from as far away as Grenditch courthouse possibly COMPETE with someguy who has spent close to 50 platinum just to comepte in the Ascalon arena with his Droknars armor and max damage fiery dragon sword.

Now I understand that its A.nets policy to pander to every single player who lives in the HoH, only to leave to use Forum posted builds to slaughter 50 lvl 20 hydras at once for crazy amounts of cash, but not every player does this.

For the players who like to build characters, play throught the PvE, and play this way, A.nets claim of skill being able to decide any battle is utterly false, that is unarguable.

Now before every 'teh economy suxx0rz stop nerfing my 100k runs, GW is PvP only yer I pwnz0r j00 in teh HoH' nublet starts posting that the 4v4 arenas dont matter, they are in the damn game.

If i make a new character now its amost a fact of life that unless I pay 10's of platinum to have it rushed allover the place, I wont be able to COMPETE in certain battles in the arenas regardless of skill.

Take for example an Ele/mesmer. At lvl 10 how is this character supposed to counter apply poison? Just stand and die pretty fast? A rushed ranger can effectivly take out a team lacking healing breeze in 4 arrows.

Another question. How is any elemental or physical damage user in Ascalon or Shiverpeaks supposed to harm a W using Droknars armor?

These people pay 5-10k to get rushed to Droknars forge. They spend 99% of the time lying dead while some guy runs down. Then they spend a heap of cash theyve grinded out using a lvl 20 W and a readilly available pre made farming build, then they teleport back and spend the rest of the day wipig out anything and everything in whatever arena they want to rule.

So I dont pay to get my chars maxed out at lvl 5, this means I can no longer compete in PvP until I reach level 20?

Utterly shocking. The more you farm and grind and the less skill you show ingame the more people you can defeat regardless of player skill. WTF?

It IS a joke now. Elite skills and Droknars armor in Ascalon arena, so much for the claims that the casual gamer could log on and compete if they had the skills ROFL.

Same goes with runes. Last week I created a Necro primary, bought the thing a superior blood magic rune in ascalon for under 1k. Now I make an ele today, go to get a fire magic superior but its 7 platinum.

Now... I have read the posts demanding the economy works etc. NEWSFLASH this isnt supposed to be an economy based MMO, its not an ECONONMY SIM, who gives a flying fuk about the economy as long as I can buy stuff for my characters level with a nice and fair level of effort.

I can get a platinum in pre searing if I put my mind to it, but how long will a non economy minded/poor player have to GRIND to be able to compete for example with a blood specced necro at low levels?

Seriously, fuk the economy I want ease of play. I dont want stuff handed to me but nor do I want to have to take my warrior out and kill mobs all day in order to get something for one character I got for another almost instantly.

Guild Wars has gone from 'omg where did all my health go, thats a nice combo your using' to 'damn will I sell this rare gold bow I want to test on a ranger build so I can make my new ele compete or shall i keep it and forget about pvping with my new character for he rest of the week'

OH MY GOD.

teamwork and the groupings are a bigger obstacle to winning in ascalon arena. I've noticed so far that the uber gear is a bigger problem in shiv arena.

Everytime you lose to one of these tricked-out players remember when your in GvG and HoH battling it out with the best in the game, they will still be in ascalon arena thinking they are pvp gods.

I used to play in that arena, but afterwords I was just getting through the game to make builds for random/team/and HoH. So just skip those arenas, worry about beating the game, and then have a blast in team/random/HoH

The competition arenas are more what people care about.

Now, I have to say it. While I agree that bringing elites and droknars armor into the ascalon arenas isn't fair...

Honestly how long do you stay below lvl 10?! I mean it's just stupid if you're even IN ascalon for very long. If your pissed about the droknar runners (as I would be) just do a few missions and get OUT of ascalon. It's like the shortest part of the game...

Depends, how many characters have you made? Iv only ascended 2 characters, but iv deleted a level 20 i couldnt get to grips with way back not long after release, numerous lvl 15-17's, and Im probably making something fresh and new and deleting it soon every day or 2.

I could rush my low level Ele I created this morning to Shiverpeaks easy, iv probably done that run more than anyone alive, and I say that fully believing it. (Anyone else noticed the sudden appearance of 4 Hydras just before Ascalon foothills about last week?)
but then id be dramatically out levelled, out skilled, and out armoured and out runed and out weaponed.

Im sorry if all you do is take the same character into HoH time after time, because I got bored of that and instead create new characters constantly, as well as getting the ones I like to high levels.

Yesterday I got 120 consecutive victories in Yaks Bend using a lvl 15 necro and beetletun armor, skills I was using you get them all in Ascalon.
Now she's lvl 17 and around Denravi area.

So yes, I go down the PvE route of character creation, because I enjoy the game. I could probably unlock a nice set of Necro Mesmer skills and elites from those priests and go into HoH with a pre made, but I choose to do it the other way.

This means that what the game is supposed to be about, skilled combat, is no longer relevant? I dont mind fighting underpowered, as long as my skill has a chance to conquer.

LvL 7 ele versus Droknars forge armor?

A joke.

Look on the bright side, you can get your char to level 20 in less than a week (in 1 or 2 days if you really pushed for it). Then, equipment hardly makes a difference, it's all about what you can do and how lucky you are.
This game is balanced for level 20's anyways, there are a number of flaws with the lower level arenas as it is, don't stress out over yet another imbalance.

Red Locust is right, no point of playing in the low lvl arenas for more than 2-3 plays to do some quick tests or similar stuff. For those that come with full armor and sword of OMGZstorness, let them make fun "I AM THE BEST IN PVP, but I die from 15 lvl mob cuz I cant use 2 skills in a combo EVEN they gave them to me that way". GvG, Tombs, TA, even Completition arenas > noob arenas.


To go vs the low lvl chars with some UBER armor and weapons (uber for the new heroes) is is like camping with 200 lvl character in newbie zone and PK ing = the most NOOB thing you can do in MMorpg.

I know, it's so unfair, and fun ! I had a lvl 10 Warrior that I got al the way to the Crystal Dessert and I got the collector's Armor. I also had a max Dmg Chaos Axe and I thought, hey let's go to the Ascalon Arena I owned everyone and even got 64 in a row !

And after all, the Ascalon Arena is to learn how to PvP, not to learn how to win. It's the same as in the Primeval of Kings. Maybe you'll start a team, but then you have to face a top ranked guild in the first round. You could get completly owned then too. That could be just a unfair.

I would say the low level arenas are just for fun.... you pop in there from time to time until you reach the level that you can't move on to the next arena. But having said that, when the rushing craze was going on people wondered what the big deal is, well this is a good example.

Though you all may not think the low level arenas aren't a big deal...they might be to some people, maybe one who just started playing (I know the OP isn't, but just making an example). Keeping in mind this game does not depend on monthly charges but sales of the game...first impressions and word of mouth is a big deal.

On another note, what sucks also in my opinion is being like level 18 and wanting to compete in a arena (for fun)when everyone else is level 20.

I've seen this discussion over and over again. Most people reply by saying "Level up and play in HoH or Team Arenas." I disagree with this idea mainly cause of the fact that the low level arena was designed with new players in mind, or those making a new character that want a new challenge with a different build.
As a somewhat beginner to serious/competitive PvP, I find that going into the low-level arena is always a let down. How can I possibly get good at PvP if I always go up against tricked out warrior builds, or even worse like mentioned earlier, poison arrow? Believe me, i've tried the D'Alessio Arena and it's also above me.
My main point can be summed up easily with an analogy. If you're new to basketball, you dont get better by gettin stomped by NBA players. In the low level arenas, you arent only playing against the "NBA players" but most of the time there's at least one person on the other team with maxed equipment .

I could never do this in about 2 or 3 weeks maybe.

Gaming sessions and efficiency vary from person to person. Some things are worth the time to do, while others arent, hence there is a difference between experiencing the game and powergaming.

I used to hang out in the Asca Arenas with a freaking fire Ele, it wasn't so bad. Also I could swear Healing Breeze was available by then, as was troll ung - so much for Apply Poison counters.

Sure it was annoying to get all those pimped out dudes running around, but somehow they died just fine to a newblet AoE pyromancer (mind you I've given up pyroing long ago now). Its really more of a question of what you want to blame - usually the opposition doesn't utilize their superior gear and skills well enough for you to say "Well we totally lost because he had [skill x]". Normally you just see blunt approaches like maxdam gear and other stuff more or less countered by what can be found or bought in and around old asca.

Yeah im not talking theoretically. sure you can counter apply poison with troll unguent or healing breeze or even a few life siphons but not if your a mesmer warrior for example or an ele mesmer. and im not talking about specific skills beng a pain, im talking about turning up to the arena not having the perfect counter to a full knights armor wearing fiery dragon sword weilding 100 blades using tit and having no chance whatsoever regardless of skill of beating him.

If you dont think its a problem then get out of this topic tbh. Noone needs 'omg u fool this game is easy and everyobne except me is a nub' type idiots spouting their 'all you need do is combine this this and this skill to beat this and this and this, oh wait u dont actually use those builds oh well u suxx0r kthnxbye'

Cya

the random arenas should have set armor and stet max-damage on weapons.
they just change yours to make it all equal.

It really isn't that big of a deal having Droknar's armor users with elites etc. in the Ascalon arena. Most people who do that, don't have much skill, they'll just think they're all powerful with their skills and rush at you. Now, if you use a little skill its really not that hard to kill them. My N/Me is in Ascalon Arena, and if I get a warrior with a max fiery dragon sword and droknar's armor running up to me, I use Imagined Burden, Life Siphon, Shadow Strike, Vampiric Touch, and they're Dead. And even if you find it impossible to beat these guys, then what's the big deal? Ascalon arena is just for fun... you get 1 Faction Per kill, 2 faction for winning, and 1 extra if its flawless. So whats that? A maximum of 7 Faction? What's the big deal?

When I take my lowbie levels into Ascalon arena and see a level 3 with Dragon's armor (I did see this) I just die and laugh. There isn't much you can do. As said by many of the other people GvG, HoH, and all that Jazz>Ascalon+Shiverpeaks for oh so many reasons.

If you are a Mesmer / Warrior, you won't ever be able to handle conditions one way or another. You chose your professions and you chose your strengths and weaknesses.

If you get stomped in the arena by someone with better armor/ weapons than you, forget it and move along. Just start up the next match and forget that some person that has the best armor beat you. It's happened to me, did I care? No.

And the weapons issue is sort of irelevant because the higher the damage on the weapon, the higher the requirement. At low levels, they are either sacrificing a lot of other attributes for offense to achieve that requirement or they don't have enough of the attribute level to even put the weapon to good use.

If the target your attacking has abnormally high armor (assuming it's because of having Droknar's armor) just stop attacking that and move onto the next weakest target. It's like fighting an elementalist with armor of earth. Do you continue to attack that elementalist? Or do you find another target with less armor?

And if it's a monk with that armor, there are ways to still kill the monk. Mesmers should have backfire by then. Health degeneration is unaffected by armor. Most Warrior attacks damage bonus ignores armor. Things like Galrath Slash and Final Thrust the damage is added on at the end. I know my Warrior does 5 dmg to other Warriors on normal hits, and 40 with Galrath and 80 with Final Thrust. Armor doesn't mean much.

Edit: This being said, doesn't it show that this is a game of skill rather than grind if then you do win?

Make a PvP character and all your gripes get flushed.

Alright, so the lowbie arenas can be off balanced. That doesnt make A.nets claim false. Tell me where it says "In every aspect of the game, skill, not hours played, will deterimine the victor." It doesnt, if you make a pvp character though, this does remain true.

You choose to perceive things poorly, dont blame A.net for that.

Except if you are trying to compete with the majority of the premade templates, which you would be if you are still trying to build up a character from scratch and are in the ascalon area.

^Disagree, you can change the templates around. They give you access to a few elites, you dont need every skill to have a good build.

Reminds me of Magic the Gathering. I made a deck (ok folks, before you start, this was back in 1994, when MtG was only played in colleges really, and the people who played werent all....socially challenged) called the cheap deck. It only had cards that were worthless (as in price), but it would win against all the lotus dorks who would spend 500 bucks on their deck.

There are a slew of great skills early in the game to unlock, the premade templates can be very competitive, with minor tweaking.