21 Apr 2005 at 01:41 - 2
that depends on your playing style.
the ranger monk is good for giving fire support and keeping the troops alive
but the mesmer can do some wicked spells
so if you want an offensive character then ranger/mesmer
but if you want a defensive character then ranger/monk
21 Apr 2005 at 02:22 - 4
R/mo with barrage and judge's insight. There you go.
21 Apr 2005 at 03:16 - 5
Mesmer is the worst of the Ranger subclasses for PvE. Yes, that includes Warrior, which at least has stuff like Shields Up! and Watch Yourself! as defense.
Ranger/Monk with Judge's Insight for damage, or other Monk skills to survive, is an outstanding choice.
Peace,
-CxE
21 Apr 2005 at 04:10 - 7
i found ranger monk has freaking annoying.. its hard to do anything beneficial.
the entire time is spent trying to heal yourself using all your mana and doing tiny amounts of damage
21 Apr 2005 at 06:49 - 8
Valerius - that's a pretty solid build. For PvE, Debilitating Shot and Pin Down lose a lot of value, so you might think about cutting those to make room for more straight offense / defense.
Similarly, for PvE, Rebirth becomes a whole lot better than Restore Life, especially on a ranged attacker.
For PvP, I'd want to find a way to slip an interrupt in somehow (probably for Hunter's Shot), but it's solid. Rangers are always pressed for space. =p
Peace,
-CxE
21 Apr 2005 at 17:29 - 10
Well for starters you can move points out of Healing and into Beastmastery now that you don't have to power Restore Life. =)
What to take with the other two slots is a bit tricky for PvE. Personally I like Distracting Shot, even in PvE. It's a bit harder to use now that you can't hit aftercasts, but you can still catch two second cast skills without too much trouble - it'll hit Healing Signets, Troll Unguents, and Ether Feasts from a ton of annoying enemies, and it's always useful against Elementalists with their wide-open spells. Not a must have, but when you're missing an interrupt and an enemy is spamming Troll Unguent it's pretty obvious.
You're not going to get much use out of another attack skill, because Barrage / Penetrating / Hunter's are going to occupy 7 of your 8 attacks if you have energy. So I'd concentrate on defense. Throw Dirt is really good in PvE - you should be back near the Monks anyway, and they're always afraid of the melee packs that break through. With your Expertise you're looking at 14 seconds of blind which is not going to be removed. Can't argue with that.
You could also grab something else from your secondary, particularly if you put more points into Protection. Even at moderate levels Shielding Hands will prevent a lot of damage over its lifetime - Essence Bond on a tank should give you gobs of energy.
Your options are pretty tight given the core you have, but I'm sure you can fit something in. My suggestion is to try out a few different things in these slots and see what works.
Peace,
-CxE
21 Apr 2005 at 22:47 - 11
thanx for all the help guys... that clears everything up a whole lot
so what about this :
Ranger/Monk
Expertise 10, +3 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 11, +1 Rune
Beast Mastery 3, +1 Rune
Smiting Prayers 7
Protection Prayers 7
- Barrage
- Penetrating Attack
- Hunter's Shot
- Tiger's Fury
- Judge's Insight
- Rebirth / Shielding Hands
- Distracting Shot
- Throw Dirt
21 Apr 2005 at 23:19 - 12
I'd have to agree with Ensign's suggestions-
At least 1 interrupt is a must. You'll often roll over enemies but get stuck at one boss using troll unguent or ether feast. You just watch them for a bit to catch their timing on their self heal. (They usually cast once they're down to maybe 35% life.) Troll Unguent has a 10s recycle, Ether Feast has an 8s recycle. Time your shot just in advance of when they'll activate the skill and you shouldn't have much trouble disrupting them. It's satisfying to get the timing down and really nail them.
Also, if you're not taking Shielding Hands, you don't need points in Protection. It's true that protection is linked to Rebirth, but in PVE, it's insignificant. The point of bringing Rebirth is that it pulls the bodies out of danger. Skill lockdown duration is a non-factor if you are standing in a safe spot.
So if you don't want Shielding Hands (a personal favorite of mine), you really don't need any points in protection either. Put them into Beastmastery, or Smiting, or somewhere else.
I'd personally choose to focus on Smiting OR Protection, otherwise it seems like you're spreading yourself rather thin.
The last thing to do is test it, and see what suits you.
21 Apr 2005 at 23:19 - 13
I found Hunter's Shot a waste of a skill in PvE if you have Barrage. Dodge or some kind of escape skill might be nice to put in there for those dangerous moments where you will be your team's last hope. Maybe even Guardian, Shielding Hands, or Favorable Winds (are Nature Rituals now useless in PvE? I haven't used them since they were turned into spirits.)
21 Apr 2005 at 23:24 - 14
k thanx for the tip
so... hows this :
Ranger/Monk
Expertise 10, +3 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 11, +1 Rune
Beast Mastery 7, +1 Rune
Protection Prayers 10
- Barrage
- Penetrating Attack
- Hunter's Shot
- Tiger's Fury
- Rebirth
- Shielding Hands
- Distracting Shot
- Throw Dirt
21 Apr 2005 at 23:39 - 15
That looks good Val. If you find you're unhappy with your damage ever, then you can just switch your Smiting to 10 and Protection to 0 and try that. In fact, that's what I'd recommend, so you can get an idea of which build you prefer.
22 Apr 2005 at 01:16 - 16
ok .. thanx a lot everyone... i appreciate it a lot
i guess u can lock the thread now .. or just let it sink to the bottom lol :P
22 Apr 2005 at 01:44 - 17
Just wondering, but why would a mesmer be a bad second class for a ranger?
22 Apr 2005 at 01:47 - 18
I went with a little bit different path than you but the same core of the build:
R/Mo
Exp
Marks
Smite
Beast
Barrage-E
Hunter's Shot
Penetrating Attack
Judge's Insight
Whirling Defense
Balthazar's Aura
Lightning Reflexes
Tiger's Fury
This way, you can use your Judge's+Tiger's+Barrage+Hunter's+Penetrating combo until your targets get close to you. Then let them surround you and throw on Whirling+Aura, then when Whirling runs out Lightning for more evade. After you get your evades going keep spamming your attacks, I probably wouldn't throw Judge's on again because you lose DPS. This should kill most enemies assuming you don't attract too much attention.
22 Apr 2005 at 01:54 - 19
It's just exceptionally narrow. What are you using it for? Interrupts? Use Distracting Shot, Concussion Shot, Savage Shot. Energy denial? Debilitating Shot. Hexing an opponent out? Waste of energy when you have Expertise to work with.
Basically the Ranger and Mesmer are the most similar classes in the game, and because of that they don't have a ton to offer to each other. The significant difference is that the Ranger has better damage output, while the Mesmer has hard shutdown hexes. Unfortunately these two themes do not play well with each other.
This isn't to say that the class combination should never be used, but that it's one that you want for very specific uses and not general utility. If you're looking for a Ranger combo that's flexible and easy to adapt for various PvE missions and pick up PvP teams, Ranger/Mesmer is more trouble than it's worth. But if you have a specific build in mind and want to slap a PvP character together utilizing it? Go for it.
Peace,
-CxE
22 Apr 2005 at 01:58 - 20
I was thinking of using some of the mesmers skills that steal energy to help out with the rangers since rangers only have like 25.
Edit: thats really the only reason i would use it for.
22 Apr 2005 at 02:16 - 21
Quote:
I went with a little bit different path than you but the same core of the build:
R/Mo
Exp
Marks
Smite
Beast
Barrage-E
Hunter's Shot
Penetrating Attack
Judge's Insight
Whirling Defense
Balthazar's Aura
Lightning Reflexes
Tiger's Fury
This way, you can use your Judge's+Tiger's+Barrage+Hunter's+Penetrating combo until your targets get close to you. Then let them surround you and throw on Whirling+Aura, then when Whirling runs out Lightning for more evade. After you get your evades going keep spamming your attacks, I probably wouldn't throw Judge's on again because you lose DPS. This should kill most enemies assuming you don't attract too much attention.
ok awesome... i ll keep that build in mind when i try out Smiting Prayers
22 Apr 2005 at 02:21 - 22
I was playing a Trapping Ranger/Monk during my PvP last Beta in the Tombs, and I felt that it was actually a pretty decent build. The only problem I had was with Energy; since I was only Level 19, I had an 11 in Expertise, so even with the decreased energy costs I was still dropping a lot of Energy if I was stacking Traps. I don't remember what I ran exactly, but I believe it was something like this...
Marksmanship: 10+1
Expertise: 10+1
Wilderness Survival: 7+1
Protection: 8/9 (can't exactly remember)
Whirling Defense
Dust Trap
Barbed Trap
Spike Trap
Penetrating Attack
Debilitating Attack
Troll Unguent
Shield of Regeneration {E}
Pretty much the whole premise behind this build was to follow up Warriors into the battle after they had engaged an enemy, throw on Whirling Defense, and get into the thick of the battle. Move up next to an enemy being engaged, then lay down some traps, preferably Dust Trap first for the Blindness, then Barbed Trap for Cripple and Bleeding, and topping it all off with Flame Trap for some nice scorching. After they're planted, run back out, I would either:
1) Find a caster of any profession, preferably Monks, and hit them with Debilitating Shot as often as I could.
2) Pick off any almost-dead enemies with Penetrating Attack to try and finish them off.
I actually had a lot of success with this strat, and I was hoping to hold onto it, but for the Energy issues, I'm inclined to have my PvP character a Ranger/Mesmer. Obviously it's not easy to let go of the extra Armor and +7 Health pips for 8 seconds I get with Shield of Regeneration, but if you ran a build somewhat like this...
Oath Shot {E}
Whirling Defense
Dust Trap
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Penetrating Attack
Troll Unguent/Debilitating Attack
Energy Tap
I would think you could have a pretty decent Trapping Ranger, since Energy problems will be lessened when stealing Energy and Oath Shot will pretty much be a guaranteed hit at a close range once I've emersed myself in the chaos.
Besides that though, I wouldn't use a Mesmer for a PvE character. The only skill I somewhat liked was Conjure Phantasm, and that's only really because of the first Beta I played and those Charr Mind Sparks kept slapping it on me...
22 Apr 2005 at 02:56 - 23
hmm... just another question....
is putting 7 points into Beast Mastery really that useful? cause like... the only Beast Mastery skill i ll have is Tigers Fury.....is that skill really worth 7 points? 
22 Apr 2005 at 03:05 - 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by walder
Then let them surround you and throw on Whirling+Aura, then when Whirling runs out Lightning for more evade. After you get your evades going keep spamming your attacks, I probably wouldn't throw Judge's on again because you lose DPS.
|
Before people start writing this down to try it out, it should be pointed out that Baltazar's Aura costs 25 energy. You wont have 25 energy to spend (especially since that's your starting max).
Also, 3 stances is pretty overkill. Tiger's Fury is a keeper because it helps your damage A TON, Whirling Defense has a decent duration and will definitely help you out if you get into trouble. Lightning Reflexes is pretty much a waste, however. It lasts ~10 seconds with a 60s recharge. It's just a mediocre combination of the two stances you already have- just use those two and find another skill to replace Lightning Reflexes.
Quote:
Pretty much the whole premise behind this build was to follow up Warriors into the battle after they had engaged an enemy, throw on Whirling Defense, and get into the thick of the battle. Move up next to an enemy being engaged, then lay down some traps, preferably Dust Trap first for the Blindness, then Barbed Trap for Cripple and Bleeding, and topping it all off with Flame Trap for some nice scorching.
Expertise is your savior. You want a minimum expertise of 12, but you really want it up at 14 so you can use your 10 energy traps for only 4 energy, and 5 energy attack skills for only 2 energy.
Dust Trap is also a big energy hog, and I don't know why you're following warriors into battle to use it.
Dust trap is best used to protect your own monks- try standing near them to use it.
While you're at it, you could drop troll unguent for healing spring. It's more healing, and it's AOE, so it will help your team out (use it near your monks so they benefit from it. The disadvantage is that Healing Spring is immobile, and you can get disrupted while using it, but just be careful when you use it, and you should be fine.
It looks like your attributes need more work. You're spread over 4 attributes, and your priorities aren't clear.
If you're focusing mainly on traps, you may have to sacrifice some Marksmanship (MMS) to make your traps more effective. If most of your time is spent laying traps down, that's probably a better choice for you.
Also, I don't really like Shield of Regen as the elite in your build. It's a spell, so it's not affected by expertise, and it's your only protection skill. Rangers already have a lot of good elites available to them before they need to go looking into another line.
Either commit more to Protection, or find a Ranger elite you like.
Some suggestions:
Marksman's Wager- Should solve your energy problems with room to spare
Melandru's Arrows - I really like this elite if you already are specced in Wilderness Survival. Most teams are running lots of enchantments (especially on the monks) so it's like getting a free power shot in every time.
Finally,
Quote:
is putting 7 points into Beast Mastery really that useful? cause like... the only Beast Mastery skill i ll have is Tigers Fury.....is that skill really worth 7 points?
Yes, unquestionably. Raising your attack rate by 33% effectively raises your damage by 50%. Tiger's Fury at 7 BM gives you 8 seconds of increased attack speed goodness. Tiger's Fury is THE BEST reason to have points in Beastmastery right now.
22 Apr 2005 at 05:18 - 25
heh...ok awesome....u sound like u know what ur talking about so i'm gonna take ur word for it
thanx again for all the help... u guys are great!
6 more days!!
22 Apr 2005 at 05:29 - 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaphism
Before people start writing this down to try it out, it should be pointed out that Baltazar's Aura costs 25 energy. You wont have 25 energy to spend (especially since that's your starting max).
Heh, forgot to mention... get a Zealous grip. Barrage enough to build up your energy then get cast Aura. With Exp helping Whirling Defense, I think regen will get you up to 25 in time to cast Aura. Or you could just do a weapon switch to boost your energy up to cast Aura. For a while you will have to just shoot normal arrows but its worth it to use Aura.
Edit*
To replace Lightning Reflexes I was thinking either Symbol of Wrath for more AoE damage or Throw Dirt for a more defensive play. Maybe even Retribution if I'm going to try to go to Riverside with this guy.
22 Apr 2005 at 05:51 - 27
lol......... onnnnneeee more question 
Quote:
Tiger's Fury at 7 BM gives you 8 seconds of increased attack speed goodness.
where did u find that out? in the game from experience? or is there a site i can go to to see the timing and stuff at certain lvl's?
22 Apr 2005 at 06:55 - 28
If you come to the Guild Wars Guru IRC channel, you can check specific skills at certain attribute levels by asking GWBot.
The channel is #gwguru on the gamesurge server.
Otherwise, you have to calculate them by hand.
Also, be warned that GWBot tends to be out of date, especially right after BWE, so take what he says with a grain of salt.
Finally, I'm going to have to disagree about Balthazar's Aura.
I love Zealous Bows + Barrage as much as the next guy, but you're not going to be sitting around with 25 extra energy to dump on yourself when you want to run Balthazar's Aura. It's unrealistic to expect it, even with a zealous bow.
22 Apr 2005 at 07:19 - 29
I seen a lot of ranger/necro in the gwe. Do they make a bad combo because that was going to be my alt?
22 Apr 2005 at 07:48 - 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiknudStunod
I seen a lot of ranger/necro in the gwe. Do they make a bad combo because that was going to be my alt?
Try checking out the Ranger Basics sticky in this forum. A lot of build ideas are already there. Or the Builds Directory on the home page.
When I'm not playing a monk I often play a Ranger/Necro. I think it's a great combination- you play mainly as a ranger, with a little utility: Rend Enchantments and Shadow of Fear are my favorites (for PVP).
In PVE you can leave Rend Enchantments behind, but Shadow of Fear will remain useful. You play mainly as a ranger, grabbing one or two useful skills from the necro line (which is about all it has to offer to start).
23 Apr 2005 at 22:21 - 31
k.... i've thought about it and this is wat i'm thinking :
Ranger / Monk
Markmanship
- Barrage (5)
- Hunter's Shot (5)
Beast Mastery
- Tiger's Fury (10)
Expertise
- Distracting Shot (5)
- Throw Dirt (5)
- Whirling Defense (10)
Smiting Prayers
- Judges Insight (10)
No Attribute
- Penetrating Attack (10)
remember... this is for PvE action... i want to be able to hold my end on my own and be able to work well with a group... this look good? anything u think i should change? 
also... i was wonderin' about Tiger's Fury... instead of that should i get Lightning Reflexes? ... this way i wouldn't have to have points in Beast Mastery and this move also gives me a 75% chance to evade attacks... the only flaw i can see in doing this Lightning Reflexes has a 60 sec CDT... where as Tiger's Fury only has a 5 sec CDT 
24 Apr 2005 at 04:04 - 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius
i've thought about it and this is wat i'm thinking
|
|
I can't argue with that skill selection - you should do pretty good damage, and can stand in the way of an onrushing pack with Throw Dirt / Whirling Defense for a good amount of time. I'd think about squeezing in a Res somehow, unless you're on an all Monk team and catastrophe insurance isn't a big deal. But otherwise, you're solid.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Valerius
also... i was wonderin' about Tiger's Fury... instead of that should i get Lightning Reflexes?
Absolutely not. The difference between being able to pump out solid damage continuously (with Tiger's Fury) and for a few seconds (with Lightning Reflexes) could not be more stark. Most of the time the evasion on Lightning Reflexes is wasted and you just have a short term speed boost - Tiger's Fury just keeps on going, taking breaks for a shot while the cooldown catches up. One's a nice bonus, the other is a machine.
Cooldowns are nearly as important as energy costs and cast times when it comes to evaluating skills. Skills that can be used more often will naturally have a larger influence on your character and the game - you must take that into account when deciding what to run. It's the difference between a character who always has skills at the ready to use, and one sitting around waiting for something useful to recharge.
Peace,
-CxE
24 Apr 2005 at 05:02 - 33
Quote:
I'd think about squeezing in a Res somehow
is Res .. Rebirth? if so.. shouldn't that skill only be used when in a group... like i plan on getting it and all... but wouldn't i only want it in my slot if i am in a group.. cause it says : Description: Resurrect target party member, teleporting him to your current location. All of target's skill are disabled for 20 seconds. This spell consumes all of your remaining energy.
so can u not only use it on someone else? not urself?....
btw... if i were to switch in Rebirth... what out of the mentioned 8 would i want to switch it with most likely
24 Apr 2005 at 05:31 - 34
I'd drop Penetrating Attack first. Barrage is ready to re-use every 2-3 shots, so you'll basically go: Barrage, Hunters, Normal, Barrage, Hunter's.
If you absolutely can't live without Penetrating Attack, I'd drop either Throw Dirt or Whirling Defense. I'd probably drop Throw Dirt because Whirling Defense will protect you against Melee and Ranged attackers, but it's up to you. Whirling Defense is a stance so you can't use it with Tiger's Fury, but it's more likely to save you when you do use it, IMO.
24 Apr 2005 at 07:26 - 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius
is Res .. Rebirth?
|
|
Rebirth for team-based PvE, yeah. Obviously you ignore it and run what you have there if you're soloing, but when other people are around a Res is just too valuable to not run.
