R/W help
PippinTook
Can someone help me w/ a R/W axe-mastery/beastmaster build? And also, should i do swords instead of axe-mastery because they are 1.25 speed and axes are 1.75 speed?
Vindexus
Both sword and axe are one attack ever 1.33 seconds.
Secondly, don't do it. If you want to do melee damage, go with 16 weapon attribute, a damage enhancing secondary profession, and strength for armor penetration.
Secondly, don't do it. If you want to do melee damage, go with 16 weapon attribute, a damage enhancing secondary profession, and strength for armor penetration.
pagansaint
If you want to go with axe/beast a W/R would be to your advantage considering you spread yourself thin as it is with Weapon Skill, Expertise(the reason you are a R/W), Wilderness(where the DPS for this combo comes from), and Tactics (to use a good shield/some skills)
That being said, is this a PvP only Character? or a PvE char thats a R/xx you are changing into a R/W?
If a PvP I would suggest re-rolling a W/R and go the Axe runes/helmet to 15/16 skill level and strength probably to 10-12 with runes/helmet with the rest into beast mastery.
Skills I would choose from:
Tiger's Fury (best Beast skill and attack speed enhancement there is for a weapon damage dealing class)
Eviscerate{E} (Eviscerate for the deep wound and high damage, which can save you a slot from having to use dismember before Axe Rake)
Axe Rake (after deep wounding the foe, keeps them from running away as easily)
Dismember (if you don't have Eviscerate this is your way to cause a deep wound so you can cripple)
Cleave{E} (very nice spammable damage skill)
Penetrating Blow (spammable 10% penetration attack that stacks with your strength skill, works very nicely in conjunction with either battle rage{e} or cleave{e} for spamming, this skill is mandatory I feel in ALL axe templates)
Disrupting Chop (Nice disruption skill, makes the disrupted skill recharge for 20s which is handy if you manage to hit a spam heal/damage spell)
Battle Rage{E} (doubles adrenaline gain and you are sprinting at 25% move speed for duration, which can be constant due to its 4 adrenaline use cost, I like pairing this skill with Bull's Strike and Disrupting Chop and Penetrating Blow for Caster hunting)
Bull's Strike (Additional damage to moving targets and it also knocks them down, VERY handy if you do not use axe rake and have a sprint ability)
Sprint (I, personally only take this if I am not using battle rage{e}, fairly self explanatory)
Axe Twist (a skill I suppose can be useful, if, and only IF you are attacking warriors bashing your monks/casters, causes weakness)
Griffon's Sweep (good skill for evade/block skill sets, has a knockdown effect)
Swift Chop (another skill good for evade/block skill sets)
Predatory Season (used smartly, if your team allows it, this skill can be a tremendous self healing monk/any class killer, reduces healing by 20% and everytime YOU hit you gain 5hp, used with Tiger's Fury and a 5:1 vampiric you can gain 10hp a second while this and Tiger's last)
Symbiosis (Spirit, every enchantment upon someone adds +hp dpending upon skill, great if used in conjunction with a teammate(s) with mass enchantment removal and enchantment heavy casters, VERY tactical use, but make sure your team can handle it)
Fertile Season (Adds HP and Armor to all creatures in AoE, another team must be prepared to take advantage spirit)
Those are my recommendations, but to find the best skill set for you and your teams, you will have to play around with all the different combinations.
That being said, is this a PvP only Character? or a PvE char thats a R/xx you are changing into a R/W?
If a PvP I would suggest re-rolling a W/R and go the Axe runes/helmet to 15/16 skill level and strength probably to 10-12 with runes/helmet with the rest into beast mastery.
Skills I would choose from:
Tiger's Fury (best Beast skill and attack speed enhancement there is for a weapon damage dealing class)
Eviscerate{E} (Eviscerate for the deep wound and high damage, which can save you a slot from having to use dismember before Axe Rake)
Axe Rake (after deep wounding the foe, keeps them from running away as easily)
Dismember (if you don't have Eviscerate this is your way to cause a deep wound so you can cripple)
Cleave{E} (very nice spammable damage skill)
Penetrating Blow (spammable 10% penetration attack that stacks with your strength skill, works very nicely in conjunction with either battle rage{e} or cleave{e} for spamming, this skill is mandatory I feel in ALL axe templates)
Disrupting Chop (Nice disruption skill, makes the disrupted skill recharge for 20s which is handy if you manage to hit a spam heal/damage spell)
Battle Rage{E} (doubles adrenaline gain and you are sprinting at 25% move speed for duration, which can be constant due to its 4 adrenaline use cost, I like pairing this skill with Bull's Strike and Disrupting Chop and Penetrating Blow for Caster hunting)
Bull's Strike (Additional damage to moving targets and it also knocks them down, VERY handy if you do not use axe rake and have a sprint ability)
Sprint (I, personally only take this if I am not using battle rage{e}, fairly self explanatory)
Axe Twist (a skill I suppose can be useful, if, and only IF you are attacking warriors bashing your monks/casters, causes weakness)
Griffon's Sweep (good skill for evade/block skill sets, has a knockdown effect)
Swift Chop (another skill good for evade/block skill sets)
Predatory Season (used smartly, if your team allows it, this skill can be a tremendous self healing monk/any class killer, reduces healing by 20% and everytime YOU hit you gain 5hp, used with Tiger's Fury and a 5:1 vampiric you can gain 10hp a second while this and Tiger's last)
Symbiosis (Spirit, every enchantment upon someone adds +hp dpending upon skill, great if used in conjunction with a teammate(s) with mass enchantment removal and enchantment heavy casters, VERY tactical use, but make sure your team can handle it)
Fertile Season (Adds HP and Armor to all creatures in AoE, another team must be prepared to take advantage spirit)
Those are my recommendations, but to find the best skill set for you and your teams, you will have to play around with all the different combinations.
Arri
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagansaint
If you want to go with axe/beast a W/R would be to your advantage
Not always, why? you'll be targeted last, and you only have 20 energy with 1 or 2 blips of energy, Ranger primary gets Expertise, which lowers the energy cost "tough it doesn't show" on all skills (correct me if im wrong)
Would you people PLEASE stop saying W/R is teh better than R/W ? Unless you've played both W/R and R/W DONT say it.
Would you people PLEASE stop saying W/R is teh better than R/W ? Unless you've played both W/R and R/W DONT say it.
pagansaint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arri
Not always, why? you'll be targeted last, and you only have 20 energy with 1 or 2 blips of energy, Ranger primary gets Expertise, which lowers the energy cost "tough it doesn't show" on all skills (correct me if im wrong)
Would you people PLEASE stop saying W/R is teh better than R/W ? Unless you've played both W/R and R/W DONT say it. I have played both :|
W/R from a Damage perspective using beast mastery instead of wilderness survival with your primary attack skill being Axe is much superior to a R/W due to the bonuses from runes to Axe and the penetration bonuses from Strength.
And it has nothing to do with when you are targeted, because if you do it right, you WILL be targeted quickly.
Axe has mostly adrenaline skills, Expertise does not affect these skills. Executioner's Strike adds +42 damage at 16 axe skill. But as a R/W you cannot use axe runes. Or Absorbtion or Strength for that matter.
Beast Mastery, VERY cheap Energy cost skills that are one/two uses or are used then adrenaline skills are used then its energy cost has been re gained.
Strength, every point adds to armor penetration, combining with Penetrating Blow and other obscenely high damage adding skills you get a MUCH better effect out of this than Expertise.
R/W is good for Expertise and Wilderness Survival and IMHO Sword.
Sword: mostly energy cost skills
Expertise: lowers energy cost
Wilderness Survival: Higher cost skills (Apply Poison anyone?)
So, I do believe YOU are the one that really needs to NOT say anything.
Would you people PLEASE stop saying W/R is teh better than R/W ? Unless you've played both W/R and R/W DONT say it. I have played both :|
W/R from a Damage perspective using beast mastery instead of wilderness survival with your primary attack skill being Axe is much superior to a R/W due to the bonuses from runes to Axe and the penetration bonuses from Strength.
And it has nothing to do with when you are targeted, because if you do it right, you WILL be targeted quickly.
Axe has mostly adrenaline skills, Expertise does not affect these skills. Executioner's Strike adds +42 damage at 16 axe skill. But as a R/W you cannot use axe runes. Or Absorbtion or Strength for that matter.
Beast Mastery, VERY cheap Energy cost skills that are one/two uses or are used then adrenaline skills are used then its energy cost has been re gained.
Strength, every point adds to armor penetration, combining with Penetrating Blow and other obscenely high damage adding skills you get a MUCH better effect out of this than Expertise.
R/W is good for Expertise and Wilderness Survival and IMHO Sword.
Sword: mostly energy cost skills
Expertise: lowers energy cost
Wilderness Survival: Higher cost skills (Apply Poison anyone?)
So, I do believe YOU are the one that really needs to NOT say anything.
pagansaint
And actually Expertise DOES show on all skills but you need it at 10-14 skill level before it becomes really effective and noticable due to the way the game rounds the bonuses.
ElderAtronach
Expertise only affects attack skills, preparations, nature rituals, traps, and stances as far as I know. It does not affect spells. R/W melee-based is best for utilizing high expertise with either lots of energy-based attack skills and maybe 1-2 adrenal ones, or with combined with high beastmastery to keep up a constant tiger's fury. TF with a hammer is pretty sick... and IMO it beats out every other attack speed increaser out there. You can't keep using TF with a W/R, its just an impossibility with the mana pool that warriors get...
Neo-LD
W/anything >>> R/W for several reasons.
1) War primaries can use warrior runes. 16 weapon attribute plz. Warrior Absorb rune too.
2) The /** allow you to take a secondary to deal EVEN more damage (monk, ele, nec all come to mind) or to overcome some basic warrior weaknesses (/mes secondary)
3) Rangers and Warriors have about the same attack priority for most enemy teams.
4) Warriors arent in need of expertise. All their attacks cost either 5 or 0 energy.
So bascially, you can have tons more damage, more life, and a secondary to play with by going war primary instead. Besides stances and expertise (both of which are totally uneccessary) what is so damn good about a R/W!>?!>!?!!?!?
Nothing.
1) War primaries can use warrior runes. 16 weapon attribute plz. Warrior Absorb rune too.
2) The /** allow you to take a secondary to deal EVEN more damage (monk, ele, nec all come to mind) or to overcome some basic warrior weaknesses (/mes secondary)
3) Rangers and Warriors have about the same attack priority for most enemy teams.
4) Warriors arent in need of expertise. All their attacks cost either 5 or 0 energy.
So bascially, you can have tons more damage, more life, and a secondary to play with by going war primary instead. Besides stances and expertise (both of which are totally uneccessary) what is so damn good about a R/W!>?!>!?!!?!?
Nothing.
Chaynsaw
You can spam pure strike and seeking blade... bypassing protection spam. You can reasonably keep up Tiger's. If you're going sword, you might as well go R/W, imho. There's a couple things you could do with it. Axe or Hammer, maybe not....
Hell Marauder
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagansaint
And actually Expertise DOES show on all skills but you need it at 10-14 skill level before it becomes really effective and noticable due to the way the game rounds the bonuses.
This is not true. With expertise at 8, you never run out of energy as most warrior's skills use only 5, which become 3, plus ranger's energy regeneration rate is higher. In fact even my ranger primary does pretty well with 8 in expertise.
R/W is superior to W/R in energy regeneration and cost. So equip yourself with lots of energy intensive skills and stances. My R/W has three stances equipped (2 warriors and one rangers, all allowing use of attack skills) and can be on 50 seconds out of 1 min, I can beat any warrior types on 1 vs 1. Apply poison is tough for warriors because it costs 15 in energy, but to a ranger with expertise is around only 10. Poison damage alone is more than enough to cover lack of that 10% penetration. Together with bleeding, it takes away 14 health points a second, more than enough to cover damage aspect.
R/W is also superior to W/R in armor with their high elemental defense (over 100+). Most warriors nowadays like to equip their weapons with elemental damage, so that's a plus. With a sword upgrade of armor + 5 and high defense shield, you actually have more armor than a hammer warrior.
Sword or axe? Well, to me any high damage skill with high energy cost is good for a R/W. So you decide. R/W is primarily an anti-warrior build. So attack warriors in pvp first. Beastmastery is probably not a good idea.
R/W is superior to W/R in energy regeneration and cost. So equip yourself with lots of energy intensive skills and stances. My R/W has three stances equipped (2 warriors and one rangers, all allowing use of attack skills) and can be on 50 seconds out of 1 min, I can beat any warrior types on 1 vs 1. Apply poison is tough for warriors because it costs 15 in energy, but to a ranger with expertise is around only 10. Poison damage alone is more than enough to cover lack of that 10% penetration. Together with bleeding, it takes away 14 health points a second, more than enough to cover damage aspect.
R/W is also superior to W/R in armor with their high elemental defense (over 100+). Most warriors nowadays like to equip their weapons with elemental damage, so that's a plus. With a sword upgrade of armor + 5 and high defense shield, you actually have more armor than a hammer warrior.
Sword or axe? Well, to me any high damage skill with high energy cost is good for a R/W. So you decide. R/W is primarily an anti-warrior build. So attack warriors in pvp first. Beastmastery is probably not a good idea.
Neo-LD
War primaries can spam energy attacks just as welll using warriors endurance or flourish. But it doesnt even matter cus most of the good attaacks cost adrenaline.
Ranger armor vs warrior armor is totally pointless. They are both good, and they both will not get targeted till last.
The ability to spam more energy attacks doesnt matter b/c a Warrior can already do that since they cost a measly 5. Or 0. Playing a warrior nowadays is all about maximiazing your damage. Forget everything else. No defense, no Misc skills. Everything must be geared towards getting the most damage. An intellignet warrior with a 16 weapon skill, frenzy, and conjure flame/judges insight will ALWAYS outdamage a R/W.
Ranger armor vs warrior armor is totally pointless. They are both good, and they both will not get targeted till last.
The ability to spam more energy attacks doesnt matter b/c a Warrior can already do that since they cost a measly 5. Or 0. Playing a warrior nowadays is all about maximiazing your damage. Forget everything else. No defense, no Misc skills. Everything must be geared towards getting the most damage. An intellignet warrior with a 16 weapon skill, frenzy, and conjure flame/judges insight will ALWAYS outdamage a R/W.
Hell Marauder
Warrior's thinking is always about damage. But for a R/W, thinking must be geared more toward hampering warrior's ability to do damage as much as damage itself. Hamstring, for example, is not a useful skill in the hand of sword warrior because of its energy cost, but can be deadly in the hand of R/W aiming to make warrior's life difficult. R/W's job is to tackle warrior head on, with defensive stance on all the time, even high damage warrior can do little to hurt them. So the key of a R/W is to make warrior's life as miserable as possible. Trap is another area a high energy R/W can consider. Just because rangers don't get targeted, rangers are quite free to harass warriors at every step. So while many ranger builds are anti-caster, R/W is a quite nice anti-warrior build. 
As for damage output, if a ranger decides not to use defensive stance, he can equip tiger's fury, which is better than anything warrior has. Tiger fury works better for a R/W than a W/R because of its high energy cost (6 for R/W but 10 for a W/R). With that to increase attack rate 7 sec out of 10 sec, with 10 sec recharge, plus Wild Blow and Pure Strike, a R/W 's damage output can exceed that of a warrior's. My R/W using regular attack can give critical/high damage attack just about every third strike. That's quite good, plus poisoining and bleeding. So playing right, a R/W can be a powerful build.
As for damage output, if a ranger decides not to use defensive stance, he can equip tiger's fury, which is better than anything warrior has. Tiger fury works better for a R/W than a W/R because of its high energy cost (6 for R/W but 10 for a W/R). With that to increase attack rate 7 sec out of 10 sec, with 10 sec recharge, plus Wild Blow and Pure Strike, a R/W 's damage output can exceed that of a warrior's. My R/W using regular attack can give critical/high damage attack just about every third strike. That's quite good, plus poisoining and bleeding. So playing right, a R/W can be a powerful build.
Epinephrine
To the OP:
You want to use beast mastery with a R/W meleecharacter; if PvE you will want Charm Animal, Comfort Animal and at least one pet attack, and possibly a call. That will be 3-5 of your slots. You are thus limited to 3-5 slots for the rest of your build which will not surprisingly limit you a great deal.
I think it is important to figure out what role you want to play and do that. Is your pet a damage source, will it deliver conditions, what skills of yours is it replacing, etc... You could use the pet as damage+bleeding for example, or equip it wiith a cripple so that you don't need to rely on yours. It could use Disrupting Lunge to mess with caster (or warrior) types, or Ferocious Strike to deal extra damage and build adrenaline and energy for you. I would guess that you'll end up with 3 slots for your pet and 5 for yourself, or 4 and 4; few players can justify having only 3 slots for themselves - my ranger currently (I change builds frequently) has 5 pet slots and it is very restirctive, though my pet is one tough cookie. Using the pet to complement your build is sensible, it shouldn't be duplicating your own abilities - why would you use a bleeding skill and give your pet a bleeding skill as well? As well, you should know that pets are remarkably persistant - they'll work on an enemy often till it is down, so you will find that you may swicth targets, along with your henchmen for example, but your wolf/lizard/strider just keeps on his/her original target. This can be good or bad, but is worth knowing. I personally am enjoying the disrupting lunge; spamming it vs big foes makes them pretty easy to deal with; as a 4th skill I'm not sure whether I'd recommend a call or a second attack; the calls are nice and very effective, while the pet attack adds another ability/condition and ups DPS. It might be tempting to use a warrior shout rather than a call - they aren't as long lasting or indeed as powerful an effect quite often, but they'll benefit a larger group, including yourself. Tiger's Fury would seem like a natural addition to the build (to up your weapon DPS 50%...), so really given Charm, Comfort, a pet attack and Tiger's Fury you have 4 skills left.
You want to use beast mastery with a R/W meleecharacter; if PvE you will want Charm Animal, Comfort Animal and at least one pet attack, and possibly a call. That will be 3-5 of your slots. You are thus limited to 3-5 slots for the rest of your build which will not surprisingly limit you a great deal.
I think it is important to figure out what role you want to play and do that. Is your pet a damage source, will it deliver conditions, what skills of yours is it replacing, etc... You could use the pet as damage+bleeding for example, or equip it wiith a cripple so that you don't need to rely on yours. It could use Disrupting Lunge to mess with caster (or warrior) types, or Ferocious Strike to deal extra damage and build adrenaline and energy for you. I would guess that you'll end up with 3 slots for your pet and 5 for yourself, or 4 and 4; few players can justify having only 3 slots for themselves - my ranger currently (I change builds frequently) has 5 pet slots and it is very restirctive, though my pet is one tough cookie. Using the pet to complement your build is sensible, it shouldn't be duplicating your own abilities - why would you use a bleeding skill and give your pet a bleeding skill as well? As well, you should know that pets are remarkably persistant - they'll work on an enemy often till it is down, so you will find that you may swicth targets, along with your henchmen for example, but your wolf/lizard/strider just keeps on his/her original target. This can be good or bad, but is worth knowing. I personally am enjoying the disrupting lunge; spamming it vs big foes makes them pretty easy to deal with; as a 4th skill I'm not sure whether I'd recommend a call or a second attack; the calls are nice and very effective, while the pet attack adds another ability/condition and ups DPS. It might be tempting to use a warrior shout rather than a call - they aren't as long lasting or indeed as powerful an effect quite often, but they'll benefit a larger group, including yourself. Tiger's Fury would seem like a natural addition to the build (to up your weapon DPS 50%...), so really given Charm, Comfort, a pet attack and Tiger's Fury you have 4 skills left.
ICURADik
Several top 10 guilds run a R/W... I guess you guys know something they don't. It probably has something to do with constant Tiger's Fury and Irresistible Blow spamming.
Tellani Artini
R/W with hammer is very popular in tombs these days, probably for the reasons ICURADik mentioned. Most R/W's probably try to go with poison, which doesn't really supplement a melee weapon at all; bows are much more effective at spreading poison. If you're doing the R/W thing, take advantage of energy-based attacks and stances. That's what expertise helps with that most. Toss on a superior beast mastery rune (they cost less than 300 gold last I checked) and watch devastating hammer fill in seconds while spamming irresistable blow and any other power attack under TF.
W/R can't do this because TF costs 10 energy and they don't have expertise. Frenzy just gets you killed against a decent team.
W/R can't do this because TF costs 10 energy and they don't have expertise. Frenzy just gets you killed against a decent team.
Epinephrine
Do people bother with antidote signet? I've been thinking of trying it, for vs the blindness mostly, though clearing up poison and disease is handy too.
Tellani Artini
I use antidote signet pretty often in random arena when I have no wilderness survival spec'd, to keep myself from dying of DoT (tainted flesh is cool these days). A great skill to toss in when you have a free slot, as it supports both your offense and your defense.
pagansaint
W/R is a better choice for AXE, which has nearly ALL Adrenaline based attacks, which means Expertise will not help as much as strength.
When I'm PvPing as a melee warrior I'm usually a R/W Sword and sometimes a R/W Hammer.
This is because Sword has some rather NICE higher cost Energy skills. Using HIGH Expertise and 8ish Wilderness.
OR I'm going with a R/W Hammer like Tellani Artini said with Expertise spamming Distracting Blow and Irresistable Blow with high Expertise and high Beast Mastery for ONLY Tiger's Fury.
But for Axe? I cannot see how Expertise is better than Strength to capitalize on the damage possible with using Cleave{E} and Penetrating Blow spam or Battle Rage{E} and Pentrating and Executioner's with Bull Strike to knock down runners and/or Disrupting Chop to disable skills.
When I'm PvPing as a melee warrior I'm usually a R/W Sword and sometimes a R/W Hammer.
This is because Sword has some rather NICE higher cost Energy skills. Using HIGH Expertise and 8ish Wilderness.
OR I'm going with a R/W Hammer like Tellani Artini said with Expertise spamming Distracting Blow and Irresistable Blow with high Expertise and high Beast Mastery for ONLY Tiger's Fury.
But for Axe? I cannot see how Expertise is better than Strength to capitalize on the damage possible with using Cleave{E} and Penetrating Blow spam or Battle Rage{E} and Pentrating and Executioner's with Bull Strike to knock down runners and/or Disrupting Chop to disable skills.
PippinTook
And also, Ranger has better armor, are people forgeting that? Most people have elemental dmg giving rangers 100+ armor, and have 70 against other types of armor.
carnivore
what? rangers only have 30 elemental defense per peice and some sets offer an extra 15 vs a certain elemental. so i dont think the affect is universal, just depends on what part of the body the spell hits
rii
no, they have 70al+30 agaisnt elements, so while they have better armour against eles they have worse armour against a warrior, when compared to another warrior. Warriors can have 90-100 against physical, which rangers cannot match.
carnivore
definatly true rii. thats y i think a r/w has to play smarter. u have to find ways around taking to much physical damage. a warrior on the other hand, relys completely on the good armor and just worries about taking high damage skills into a fight.