The Myth of the 'Two-Monks'

Here you go if you still need it:

http://members.skill-club.com/TriX/G...tors_table.htm

2 Average Monks are fine, but 1 exceptional one is great.

Thanks for the info and I had a feeling it would be in Desert someplace I loath.How do you get to the Dunes of Despair from what mission as tried walking there from Augary Rock and betwen the Hydras,Stone Elementals and the wurm I couldn't get there and I neeed to get to heros audience.Thanks

"Random buttheads" are there so you can appreciate the people on your friends list more.
This is an oft ignored social benefit of the Guildwars grouping system

The truth behind this makes me sad... especially since I have to put up with a lot of this as an elementalist. Here's an example of finding a group in Tombs:

Me: E/Me Pyro/Geo nuker LFG!!!

10 minutes of spamming later... I get picked up into a group. Then...

Me: Hey guys
Leader: u an air elementalist?
Me: ...
Me: Hold on... I'll change my build.

I think the lack of originality stems from how easy it is for one build to destroy anything you put together.

Oh and about the OP, try facing a spike group in Tombs with only one monk... Not pretty .

One monk is FoW is okay, but two is better in my opinion.

I play a monk as well, and while I've been the only monk in an FoW group and kept them alive, I still prefer another helping me. If the second monk choose his skills correctly, we're much stronger. A protection monk is very nice as well, sometimes they make great second monks.

As for those with necros using blood ritual. It's very nice, but I've noticed that alot of necros don't choose to use it.

In this case of one monk is better then two... and so forth...
There is no right or wrong... its how you play the game.

One monk may have its advantages but then so what? having two monks have its own advantages. I wouldnt need to explain what they are as i'd be repeating whats already being said.

I definitely agree with newfangle here. Heck, monks are not neccessary at all if you know what you are doing.

To me monks are like crutches, learn to live without them or end up being dependent on them forever.

I pity those fools.

OMG this is soooo true!

[U]Ditch the 2nd healer and get a mesmer that interupts and energy denies!

Less damage being dealt to you = less damage needed to be healed

Ditch the 2nd healer and get a Necromancer that uses wells and horrors

well spread health regen and multiple foe targets=less energy use

Ditch the 2nd healer and get a Ranger Trapper

More damage imput and traps = faster creatures die less they deal dmg

You'll have an easier life I assure you. Thirsty river is absolutely dooable with 1 monk!

I did Thirsty River as the only Healer with two Guildies and 3 random PuG people. The PuGers were paranoid but we did the mission without complications.

While there is something to be said about the two monk safety net, if you need more than that you should seriously consider rebuilding your group from the ground up. Half the time Lina works just fine for the second Monk role, anyhow.

wtf?? of course you can do it with only one monk...and its perfectly conceivable to have NO monks.. its not about the quantity its about preparation.

if you organise a team well enough, hell.. you can do anything you dam well want to...

as has been said before people take a second monk for great many reasons, and you are VERY wrong to call people noobs who take two... taking two is called preparation, wisdom, forsight, experience, the word to describe you is presumptious.

Your say your such a great monk.. and maybe you are, but who is to say you wont disconnect, or go afk.... OR QUIT!.. there is nothing above your head which makes you stand out amongs anyone else, how do I know your good or not?.. how does anyone???? THEY DONT!

Monks are the most arrogant people I have met in Guildwars, I always take two simply because they are so pig headed and full of themselves that they are more likley to quit the team than any of the n00bs are!

what your basically saying is that you are so great, so much better at monking than anyone else you cant possibly conceive a situation where a second is nessasary... thus providing more evidence that monks are more likley to be players who are indeed arrogant selfish and so bloated with their own ego that they feel they must advertise it to the world.

More effective with only one monk?... LOL you make it LESS efficient because if you go AFK then the whole team is screwed.... and that ONE monk will hold you all to randsom.

its almost like saying.... oh dont bother taking the spare tyre on this 7 hour road trip, it will only slow us down.. and we will be more efficient on the fuel!

stop being so arrogant and pig headed and maybe people can afford the risk of taking only one.

you dont need monks at all for pve. you do need 2-3 monks for pvp most of the time. i think maybe thats where the misconception comes from.

The better a team is the less Monks it needs.

more damage=less damage recieved=dont need more healing
Thats why 1 monk is enough (unless the other is a smiter).

lol, go to eng 1 ToA, you on your uber build im leet best healer monk build..

go to FoW and see how far you get....

I am happy you agreed on this point.

We said no such thing on the matter of taking two monks as being cowardly. We simply suggest that 2 monks is not necessary at all times and we are attempting to bannish this widely missunderstood notion.

There are jerks out there that do that.
Yet there are those that stick 15 minutes after they are dead and still haven't been raised.
You can't generalize.

Not all monks are arrogant. I can see why many of them become so. Because they have to deal with others who treat them automatically as jerks.

What we are basically saying is that if monk-players learned how to better manage their energy and/or resources they would theoretically be capable of supporting a group of 6-8 depending on their abilities and expertise alone.

Before I tried myself as the only monk in a group of 6 I was *always* asking the group to bring a 2nd because I was not sure that I could do it alone.

After having surviving the Thirsty mission with ease as the only healer. I would like others to be able to realize this as well.

There are certain pros and cons.
The one where you mention that the only monk leaving is the biggest problem.
But there is also a viable outcome to having one monk.

I will use the Thirsty River mission again as an example
(Because it was the one which I studied the most)
The team was able to completly pwn the mission. We never had to retreate, we never failed to beat a priest under 2:00 and we even completed the bonus.
*This* was also the first time 3 of the party members in the party had actually done this mission and they thought it was easy as pie!

Why?

Because by *not* taking a second monk they where dealing much more DPS (Damage per second) as a party than if they had had one!
---------------------------------------------------------------Lastly don't take such an offenced tone and accusing every monk out there to be selfish, pigheaded arrogant [email protected] because that is not reallistic and you paint yourself as being cynical. <=That's a bad trait by the way

Cynisism:
Believing or showing the belief that people are motivated chiefly by base or selfish concerns; skeptical of the motives of others.

Not true at all. That is oversimplification and ignores the very concept of GW's party and skill slot limitation - its all about skills and builds.



Able to self heal is a good 'style' but does have a down side. Its far from perfect.

For example, there are warrior builds that can execute 3-5 skills in order to output tremendous amount of damage. Then you need to consider to bring res sig, hex removal, condition removal, then healing. If you are just going to bring Orison Healing or Healing Breeze - you are wasting your energy and the monk's because you will not be healign yourself fast enough especially if you are hexed and target of melee attacks.

If you bring 3-4 attack skills then you are pretty sufficient. This is the random arena build as I call it. Not great damage output nor great healing capabilities. Missions tend to go slower because you need to move slower (limited aggro capabilities).

There is also a misconception that tanks are the main source of damage in PvE. Not always true. They are their to absorb damage mainly AWAY from the casters - like a nuker and mes.

What about if you want to run 2 blood necros?

There are dozens of reasons to run 2 monks. As there are reasonsto run 1 monk.

I rather run 2 monks and let the other specialize in doing what they do best.

Not to mention if you run out of energy in the middle of the battle - it would suck that the E/Mo would need to cast breeze on team instead of bringing in meteor.


Do you have to run 2 monks? No.
Are there enough capable monks and non monk players to run one monk?
You tell me.


(BTW - there are so many people who complain about PUGs in this forum, that I wonder if you guys end up complaining about each other ? )

You don't ****need**** two monks in a group.

It's easier to heal in the long run with 2 and it also means you have better chances to survive if one of them dies.

But it doesn't mean it's better in *any* way to a group that has only 1.

Who's players: Protect the monk
(as they should but do not )
Who's players: Bring some form of self-healing/evasive skills
(Which they do not)
Who's players: Know when they are taking *way* to much damage too fast.
(Move AWAY from melee, spellcasters! [email protected]! N/W don't tank! Plz!)
Who's monk: manages energy
(as they do not because of 2nd monk laziness)
Who's monk: pays attention to his surroundings
(which they don't do)
-----------------
I'm a Mo/R Healer/Trapper who brings Storm chaser and Barbed traps. Bringing the means of survival for yourself and thus the means of your party's survival is never a bad idea
A few traps here and there when you're not particularly needed is a sound thing to do too

In my expierence it is very much true. It should also be noted that I used the word "need" in place of the word "want." A great team does not need two Monks. It may want two Monks but it certainly doesn't need two Monks.

This also shows something about PUGs. Most ppl do not trust PUGs, with good reason I may add, to be competent. This is why groups will take more than one Monk(a lot of the time but not all)...because they don't know the abilities, skill levels, teamplay ability of other random strangers in thier group. If PUGs could magically somehow know all that before they created their group I doubt many PUGs would still be taking two Monks. Having two Monks(can even be agrued one Monk) is nothing more than insurance against the idiocy, lack of expierence, or whatever your group might display.

The truth is that not all monks are that good, just as not every player of a certain profession is the best ever. There are monks with no energy management, BIP necros that sac themselves to death, warriors that think tactics is only used for healing signet (and healing signet + frenzy is the best heal combo ever), and elementalists that think they are invincible. Some rangers cannot pull one or two monsters from a mob, and deposite them on the tanks, but perfer to pull two or three mobs and deposite them on the mesmers.
The truth is, having 2 monks (or three) in an 8 person party in the high level areas (fow, uw, gf/sf, rof) makes the party more forgiving on mistakes. In FOW, if you have on monk, it may not be hard to watch over 7 people, but if they make a mistake (like aggro a little too much), it is more likely to mean dp and another 1K entrance fee than if you had 2 monks.

I think that the majority of players over-estimate the toughness of the pve content.
The main reason a team would lose in a mission in the later stages is due to bad players, not because of a bad combination of builds in the team.
Seriously, players who don't invite mesmers, rangers, and necros in the pve content coz it they think they are useless need a serious check-up.... pve is NOT hard.

Seems like there's some trend recently to whine about monks in all forms possible. What is that, jealousy? You can do fine without monk, you can do fine without any specific class, duh. What's wrong with getting 2 monks? What's this? Nothing? Good answer. What, you think it automatically makes you "noob"? By getting 2 character dedicated to healing, all other can focus on offense instead of self-healing/protecting, meaning in the end, your firepower would be just as good as in "balanced" parties, yet you would have extra monk in case something goes wrong.

Also, I noticed recently on forums, that quite a few Mesmer are so full of themselves, claiming that they do such great damage with Shatter Hex and people are "noobs" for not inviting them. Let me put it that way - assuming I even make party(henchie ftw), I have nothing against other classes - but with such attitude, I'd "forget" to heal and ressurect you. If you want to be damage-dealing Mesmer - be my guest, but do not consider typical damage dealing Elementalist "noob" and inferior.

It is not the *taking* of two Monks that makes people a "noob" but rather the *assumption* that in order to succeed at all you must take two (or more) healing Monks. By all means, organize your groups however you'd like. Heck, take six healers and two trappers; you'll probably be successful in PvE (and Rangers do need some more love). More power to you, and enjoy yourself! Such a group would probably be kinda fun.
The counter-argument most of us are trying to promote is that by learning to keep yourself alive, you do not need to rely on those two Monks, and thus you can have eight characters who are dedicated to dealing damage and eight characters who can protect the party. By learning to protect yourself you become a better player, and if you never learn how to protect yourself, you'll always be a drain on your party's resources.

There are many players who only ever group with two to three Monks. These players probably have a very skewed and narrow view of their professions. The "myth of the two monks" exacerbates this style of arguably poor play. Many people on these boards wish to enlighten others as to the great diversity and wealth of strategies available in Guild Wars. Others wish to remain lazy and let "other people" (Monks) take care of them. I think we'd all find less Monk-hate and many more successful groups if everyone would take more responsibility for themselves. You are welcome to disagree with this line of thinking, but know that, in doing so, some will call you "noob."
I think you could perhaps excuse us for zealously supporting an underrepresented profession by stating truths and facts to promote better groups (and, just *perhaps* find parties for our characters). Why is it so painful to confront the revelation that in at least three areas of Guildwars (SF, GF, and FoW), the combination of hex-spamming enemies and high-armor targets creates a situation in which Elementalist AoE damage is dwarfed by Mesmer AoE damage (and, heck, Necromancer AoE damage, too)? Would you rather that we lie and say things like, "Domination Mesmer damage is AWESOME L337 against Krytan Tengu!" when really all they have going for them is Empathy (which is nice, but hardly as much damage as an Air Elementalist will do), or, "Gosh, Fire Elementalists PWN the Stone Summit, you really want another Fire Elementalist rather tham me!"...? Both statements are patently false.

But at any rate, your strange hatred of the Mesmer profession is taking us down a path away from the subject of the thread.

There are six professions in Guild Wars. Each of them is (reasonably, but not perfectly) balanced with the others. Each profession can bring something unique and powerful to a party. By making room for all professions, concentrating on finding ways to defend oneself, and becoming better team players, we promote better groups, more successful groups, and (more importantly) better play.

cmb

I'm amazed at how many people mention that player classes other than monks need to bring their own self healing during a mission. Why? Isn't that the Monk's responsibility? The Monk heals (or protects) while the other classes provide buffs or damage, interrupts or degen. Having each class carry their own healing, hex removal, condition fixing spells simply detracts from their effectiveness - and characters not as effective = not sufficient damage = monks over burdened.

Warriors tank and aggro mobs. Rangers, Mesmers, necros, and eles shape the battle with buffs, AOE damage, interrupts, spirits, remove enchantments as well as hexes, etc. Monks provide enchantments, damage absorption, healing and condition removal. As long as the party members all do their job there is no reason for anyone to rely on someone else to do that other person's job. Called teamwork. The only common element - everyone should bring some sort of ressurection skill.

When I'm playing in a PUG as any class outside of a monk, I expect the monk(s) to keep me alive while I deal with the monsters. If the monks rely on the other party members to do their job - then that monk sucks, plain and simple.

When I'm doing PVE (or PVP) I never bring self healing skills, except for necro, since necros steal life (if using blood skills, for example) as part of their job. Otherwise, I look for skills to take the maximize my duties, not the duties of someone else.

And I've finished the game with six different characters, including two different monks. I've just started my seventh (a mesmer) and in three days I'm in the wilds (I don't believe in being run to Droknars) using a mix of PUGs and solo hench missions. And I never bring self healing. If I'm in a party with two monks, I expect the OTHER monk to keep me alive, as I'm keeping him alive.

That's how it's supposed to work, and can work just fine.

I read the poster's opinion, and a few subsequent posts...

Just to capitalize on a few things (note, im considering tougher areas like FOW and UW more than easier areas), I apologize if this repeats any silly points:
Two monks are asked for because there are almost always unforeseen problems in a mission or a run.
Having characters with secondary monking (aside from blood necro support) ALSO detracts from damage. Case in point - a general party of 7+1 monk with 2-3 w/mo's and 2-3 e/mo's running healing on 2 to 3 slots each and spending points into healing/prot attributes is going to be more damage crippled than a party of 6+2 monks where w/x and e/x/me are fully equipped with damage/other spells and are not fixed to a monk class with limited damage buffs. You say E/Me can heal himself with ether feast? Why use ether feast when your inspiration skill(s) can be put toward energy management?

Remember, these people asking for groups know they can't trust everybody to do things exactly right the first time. I'm fairly sure they know they're calling out to a general public with mixed experience and are giving them the benefit of the doubt, so they want to be extra cautious.
Even simpler, it may be just that most of the time they have won with a PUG group with 2 monks in it.
Calling someone juvenile because you don't agree with them is, for lack of a better term, pulling a "Jack Thompson" (go look him up if you don't know what I mean). I have yet to see an 8 man PUG with one monk pull off a fissure run, and one monk trying to finish UW in an 8 man team is just asking to be wiped all over the floor (can you say mindblade spectres and migraine?).

Would you really trust a PUG with only one monk???

Shouldn't the single monk learn how to heal properly instead of leaning on the crutch of a backup monk?

Nothing provides better training than being out alone on that island, the fate of the entire group resting in your scrawnly soft little hands.

You need two monks (or at least 2 healers) for an 8 man group if you plan on going certain places within the game. There are even some places where I prefer three monks. Some of those places are in FoW and UW but not all. For 95% of the PvE content you only really need one monk. Having two is always a plus though (for 8 man teams anyway).

Though i think the topic is a bit "over-talked", but still as a primary monk i feel i need to put down my 2 cents

An 8-man team can be put together in many a ways, which can work even to the extent to having no monks, but then people definitely need self-heals obviously. I frequently do UW and FoW questing and we found the two monk setup working best, that is one healing and one protection monk, who can get the party through mostly everything. With two healing monks there is always overlap in healing and need much more coordination in general. Not to mention that protection with preventing damage first place helps the healing monk awfully lot. But doing UW quests with only one monk should be quite an achievement in my opinion, without self-heal or blood/well support from other members.
So to sum up i dont think there are general truths, like: we don't need two monks/rangers/necros etc. (choose at your will) :P You can put together for PvE a successful team with almost any setup, given that the participants are competent players and can plan ahead party build, and not just spam: gogogogogo! right after getting in team...

cheers though

"But at any rate, your strange hatred of the Mesmer profession is taking us down a path away from the subject of the thread.
"

My "strange hatred" comes from attitude of *some* (key word being some) of them - "We are so much better than them, yet they don't invite us - therefore, they are noobs". This "strange hatred" doesn't mean I wouldn't invite them. Actually, I'd kick anyone from my parties if he had such "I'm so much better than you" attitude, be it Monk, Mesmer or Ele. There's just some automatic assumption, that if you don't invite Me(or Ranger to a far lesser degree - guess they manage okay), you're moron.

Plus, what annoys me even more, is that they seem to blame Monks for this.

" By making room for all professions, concentrating on finding ways to defend oneself, and becoming better team players, we promote better groups, more successful groups, and (more importantly) better play.
"

The idea is good, but not by calling others fools or idiots because they don't appreciate it. They want to play game the easy way - maybe not most effective, but effective enough. It's doesn't make them "noobs" - who's telling that 2/3/3(tweak number a bit if you want) players can't use good mixture of skills both offensively and defensively?

And BTT - what if single monk gets dazed, hexed, drained or badly hurt and has few degen condinitions on him? What's this? It shouldn't happen? But it does, there's nothing saying that this CL won't strike you as well, or if some ranger doesn't decide to poison you. Second monk is there to also take care of first one and in reverse. Not *needed*, but very helpful. He could just as well be prot, or maybe even smiter. Myself, I prefer to be heal/prot hybrid in such scenario, casting prots first, and then being backup healer.

so then...
don't need 2 monks eh?
kinda like we don't need 2 warriors.
...or 2 elementalists
...or 2 mesmers
...or 2 rangers
...or 2 necromancers
why not pick on all those 2 warrior teams out there? or the myriad of 3 elementalist teams? or the blasted 2 mesmer teams that get me oh so annoyed?
you choose to pick on monks. we are not even the most popular duplication in teams. warriors are. now i have a warrior as well. we need 2 warriors. one needs to be able to take some of the aggro and to pick up missed aggro.

monks. 2 heal monks? that is, quite simply, silly. 1 heal and one prot is quite adequate. but you are on the warpath about ALL monks?
you don't need 2 monks on a team!! so don't! or you're a n00b!

so what? i don't need 2 elementalists on my team. sure it speads the process up but that doesn't seem to matter. a monk speeds things up. we let you chaps kill stuff quickly and effectivly. if all the members need to bring enough self heal to stay alive them you lose some serious offensive capability.

i know full well that i can survive, in a good team, with just me on monk duty. however that is a good team. you cannot go into FoW with people you do not know without any kind of safety net. you say but one monk is a safety net! what? for a good team sure, a single monk is indeed a safety net. and an adequate one as well.

for a normal PUG 1 monk is standard equipment. you WILL NOT survive in a normal team wihtout one. the safety net is a second.

personally i have met soem of the most arrogant monks in the world. i have also met plenty of very arrogant elementalists, mesmers, rangers, necros and warriors. they all excel at something. some people let that go to their heads.
just because a mesmer can just about do the same as an elementalist under the right conditions does not mean i should take a mesmer in place of all my elementalists. i would much prefer a mesmer who focusses on doing that which he excels at. disruption. i don't like seeing monks who tank. that is not their forté.

two monks is by no means absolutely necesary. however, neither is life insurance. you might be lucky. maybe nothing will happen to you.
on the other hand, maybe it will.
does it hurt to have that little bit of insurance? incase it all goes pearshaped? incase the Aatxes decide to gang up on the only monk? incase someone experiences a little lag and pulls 2 mobs?

there are so many little things that are out of our control. something can always happen that could mess up the plans of the best group in the world. you can either hope that they won't happen, or try to be ready for them. you could take 2 monks.

sure, something could still happen. like BOTH monks lag out. the chances of this are, however, very small. small enough to be ingnored.

it all depends on the type of person you are. are you going to play it safe? or are you going to live on a knife edge and not bother with that fangled life insurance anyway?

You have 8 slots to use in a team. if you make up the remaining 2 slots with warriors then you lose alot of damage dealing potential. but there are fewer soft targets. the slow damage dealing may mean you monk is worn down slowly.

if you make up those 2 slots with mesmers or elementalists then there is going to be a lot more soft targets. the monk may be overwhelmed.

make it up with rangers then you go somewhere inbetween. soft targets and lower output.

i always say that the most precious thing for a monk in GW is TIME. energy management out the window. a single monk can only heal one thing at once. 2 monks can heal 2 things.
if you have a well organised team that never pulls aggro onto the wrong people then fine, by all means only have one monk. when it all goes pearshaped however you will have little to fall back on.

anyone can heal efficiently if the only one taking damage is the tank. sure this is how it is supposed to be. but it is not how it IS. randomfactors out of you control cause this. you can extend your safety zone that little bit further with just two monks.

some people like to make sure that they will not die. some don't. some people want 2 monks. some don't. the former, however, don't call the latter n00bs for their choice. this should be reciprocated.

i have stated the reasons for my position. i have not called mesmers crap. i have not said that monks are the ub3r 1337. i have merely stated why i think what i think. you can choose whether to follow. do not however call me or the people who share like views n00bs just because they are not YOUR views.

i have said my peice. you can make up your own mind, as i have. however i ask that you do not try to make up other people's minds with petty insults.

in my personal experience in pve, i have been in way more groups with 2 monks than 2 warriors. you dont "need" warriors in pve either. what you 'need' as i mentioned before is a group full of people willing to work together.

We can tell you're 13 with your lack of grammatical prowess alone, let alone thinking there is no distinction between 2 monks and 8...

well actualy i think most of game is easy done with only 4 ppl

1 tank who tank
1 monk who heal tank
1 aeo damage dealer(normaly ele)
1 support char for distruption , debuffing.


one more thing.
people always thing monk should heal, prot( most only think they need heal)

what about smite?

i find my smiter doing more damage of most of nuker using 2 spell , shield of judgement, balthaar aura ...

i apologise for the mammoth post. i fully understand if you can't be bothered to read it all. (most of it is repeated anyway).

oh and Ristaron? i am 16 years old and i have talked my fair share of adults under the table with my arguments.

sure a 12 year old does not have massive experience with respect to the world. however at the age of 12 the brain has stopped developing. they(/we) have the same cranial capacity as an adult.

That's because it's not expected. I recently started using my monk as smiter - what can I say, I only do it with friends who know about, random person would just cry about me not being healer - of course, they never know that all those enemies are knocked down because of SoJ and mysteriously lose hitpoints every second. It's just the same as with every other class - they're expected to do one or two thing, anything else, and you get called "noob". However, there's also slight problem with BA/SoJ being enchantment, meaning it can get shattered quite easily in certain areas. Not to mention you can easily use Baltazar and still be healer, it's not like you need 16 smite and all 8 smite skills to be smiter.

However, before someone using this to "counter" my argument about Mesmer nukers - smite is entire attribute dedicated to it(and there's like 2 skills that are worth anything ). Shatter Hex is just one spell

I like how you are trying to get Rangers in there

Cuase when I go to a mission area looking for a PUG - 9/10th of the time I get in 1 of 2 situations:
1) I've been invited to a group that is just picking up the first people they see screaming "lfg" - so it usually ends up being half low lvls, and all unorganized. They dont even check to see if their skills work with each other - and half the time NO monk gets to come along (I guess these people dont care for Alesia) - and thats even worse since half the party leaves when we go into mission because "this team sucks with no monk, I'm out!".

2) Someone pities me because I'm an unloved class (Ranger) so just tacks me on in one of the last places, and in the mission doesn't care anything for me (For all they care I can die in the first minute and not bother them anymore) - SO I can never get them to listen to me, stop for a sec when I'm lagging, or even HEAL me in battle..cause I'm just the "tag-along".

REALITY CHECK: 9 times outta 10 I end up doing better tanking than the poor excuses for W/Mos that just made W/Mos cause they heard they "ownzor'd" - and they dont know what their doing. 8 times outta 10 I end up doing more damage than the excuses for Elementalists I get stuck with that waste half the time on sucky long cast time spells, or casting firestorm on a moving target (I'm.Not.Kidding). Especially through the Jungle missions my Kindle Arrows were leveling those Plant enemies left and right...
(NO OFFENSE THE PEOPLE I'VE TEAMED WITH THAT WERE ACTUALLY FINE PLAYERS AND DID THEIR PART - I LOVE YALL)