Charr Lore

why exactly are the Mursaat the bad people? Maybe they are the good guys, afterall they did protect the door of komali from letting anyone open it so the titans wouldnt come out. Maybe Glint and the Seer's are the bad guy and we are caught in the middle of a war we can never understand. I from the beginning have always believed the White Mantle and the Mursaat were the good guys, and Glint the seers and everyone else that was on our side that resisted them was bad (The Vizier of course).

To Sum it all up, The Mursaat are the good guys.

yeah except for the whole mass murderers thing, they're great.

The Mursaat are definitely evil. The Lich is evil, of course. Basically, Glint forsaw in the Flameseeker Prophecies that both evils would be destroyed, and she just doesn't feel the need to tell this to the heroes. After all, she seems to know the outcome anyways.

Argh! Everyne is evil in this game. Who CAN you trust? Who ISN'T evil? Geez.

i guess glint told the mursaat a powerful enemy would rise and try to defeat them with a handful of soldiers, every1 just got a part of info from glint that said what they should do, glint is smart

So the Charr invation could have been Glints work, as a way of leading the heros to kryta. But, the Charr seem abit barbaric to play along like that, so Glint may of tricked them.

i think this is a good point. but i bleve that The Mursaat and the char are linked most lykly is glint profissed 2 The Mursaat hearing this and noing that the chosen would start there jouny in ascalon sort for a way to brake them... there alryd was the charr in ascalon so they gave them the means to do this this means both parts would hav had a mutral agrement But this is just going on what i hav seen in game a big clue 2 my thery is if we look at the larger crystals left behind after the seering they are infused with the same material that jade armors are formd off... and im also working on the thort that the char are more advansed than we first thort after going inta dragons guilt i fist thor it was a anchent human templ 1nc far bigger and grander than ToA but then i came 2 a archway with the carving of a char shamens face sarounded by human skulls then did a lil more exploring just out side the flame temple and found char sarounding a banner (in blue) with the same image on it... the char a advansed race a bit hard to belev but hay if u botha 2 look its there... who knows it could hav been the The Mursaat that broke their hole race just to stop the profacy BUt thats just my opinion

We are just as evil as the mursaat really.
They sacrificed countless masses of us to keep the titains from escaping.
We killed damn near all of them to let the titans out.

yay for humanity sending another species to the extinction block!

And about the Charr being manipulated by Glint...

As suggested earlier in the thread and by me in another thread about the charr, I belive Vizeir had something to do with the Charr moving south.

He needed a reason to get to the scepter of Orr, he needed a way to get heros from ascalon into kryta so he could direct them where he wanted them. and the Charr made a great means to those ends.

sorry if this is off-topic but has anyone seen a female charr?

Im fairly certain I couldent tell the diffrence if I looked. Nor would I want to look.

And besides, why would it matter, by the time you figure it out one of two things has happend:
1) You died because you spent too much time looking up your foe and he/she killed you out right.
2) You got ostricised from society for feeling up a dead Charr.

So, after comeing to a conclusion about the gender of your foe, no one would know your revelation anyway :P

Even if the Charr would have some worship of the Mursats , it doesnt mean they consider the Mursat their "good" gods. Sort of like Christians having descriptions of Satan.

Charr would simply worship the Mursats because the Mursats have imprisioned the Titans. That is they could worship both -for diffrent aspects

I have been reading (the majority) of the posts here and this seems to be going all over the place. My buddies and I have had numerous discussions about what the heck exactally took place in Prophecies. This was the closest thing to a conclusion we did... or something similar to this:

Im a nut shell, the Flameseeker Prophecies (FP) were coming and Glint was the... mediator of it all.

I think the Mursaat knew of the FP and also knew how devestating the Titans would be, thus they needed to kill the people who they thought were 'Chosen' to stop the FP and not allow the Titans to come out. (the eye thing chose the chosen) (or keep the Titan's sealed) Saul found Mursaat, Mursaat gained power over White Mantle to do their bidding (Though good intentions had to get those intentions by killing people)

Charr worship fire. Fire = Titans. Titans want to kill crap. Thus the Charr wants to kill crap. (Crap = everything. The Charr attacked freaking Asclaon, Kryta AND Orr. The Lich accidently sunk Orr trying to stop the invasion like an idiot.

SO...

All the PvE chars = Chosen since the Mantle kept killing the "other Chosen". (Because one way or another this Prophecy is going down weather you like it or not. Glint is gonna have to start kickin' puppies if she has to.)

The Chosen people are the various champions of Ascalon and travel across Tyria learning of everything as the FP begin to unfold before them (us). Lich uses us to Ascend to BEAT the Mursaat as they stand in his way of the Titans. He turns us against our 'allies', the White Mantle (even though they were murdering people, they wanted to stop the FP, when all along it had to run its course, the Mursaat said: "These people are the unbelievers, the tained.. or whatever, in order to get the White Mantle (WM) to kill the Chosen.)

We find out WM's deeds, kick some butt. Lich says: We gotta run morons, to the desert and Ascend!

We Ascend, find mursaat, get seer to help us and convince (good) dwarves to help us attack Mursaat, all the time playing to the Lich's hands. We break Mursaat stronghold, the only thing that was stopping Lich from getting the Titans. He Busts out some Titan action, but didn't read the fine print of the Flameseeker Prophecies. He gets burned in the end like the idiot he once was.

THEN....

Charr re-unite with titans, have a good hug and continue their carnage on Ascalon. Idiot King wont give up and move to Kryta. We come back to resuce his face again... same family issues... END!

That was sort of hosh-posh mess, but is anyone on the same wave-length here? Or is this all bogus?

That acctualy seems really close to the sentiment in the thread, Flopjack >_>

I still think the Lich and Glint did a lot of behind the scenes manipulations though. :P If not simply to make the rather poorly made enemies we had to slaughter seem less stupid. ^_^

Good, then I guess I am on que with everyone here.

well now that i think of it day are more lykly to be linked with the linch as in last day dawns they are fighting with the titans not agenst them and the masut are trying 2 stop us from opening the gate ant they?

Ouch, my eyes.

1.Glint didnt tell the lich any part of the prophecy ,he 'read' it.
2.Glint is a cannieving bitch,though .
3.During the searing ,the char summoned massive crystal formations (or jade) ,very similar to that in dragons lair and the material on the jade armors .
4.Anyone wondered about teh name-dragons gullet ?
5.Its because the charr summoned glint (a dragon) to destroy ascalon by nuking them with magical crytsal ,which she got from her lair.
6.If the charr worshp titans, then they worship creatures who could only come by opening the door of komalie .
7.What i mean to suggest is that the door of komalie had to be opened sometime before ,otherwise the charr could never know who or what the titans were .
8.In the quest- defend droknars forge ,the titans are made of ice ,this suggests that they can addapt very very quickly to their surroundings .
9.According to that logic ,jade armors,jade bows ,all jade mursaat followers,boulder elementals,stone elementals ,ice golems,possible flesh golems,and all other kinds of golems are in fact titans .Perhaps when the door of komalie was first opened ,a similiar thing happened as the prophecies lore ,except that the chosen failed and died ,but the dor of komalie was closed in teh process.Since they were dead ,the door of komalie was closed and they had no lord to command or give them power ,many spread to different areas of tyria and adapted to the surroundings .
10.If the titans escaped from teh ring of fire,how could they have possibly gotten to the main continent ? tehy cant swim or tehy wouldve died ..
11.They traveled first south west through the rof ,into the land of elona (be excited) and through the crystal desert ,some got left behind there ,then they split into two different groups, one going to the shiverpeaks and the others going northward into ascalon (they mgiht have even passed glint along the way)
12.This explains why there are no titans in kryta or maguuma.
13.i can think of more stuff ,but ill post later;grasp this stuff first .

Well, here's all the ways that you're wrong:

1. True
2. No idea where this one is coming from, but sure, if you say so.
3. The Jade armors are very, very dissimilar to the crystals in appearance.
4. This is currently unknown, and perhaps always will be. We shall see.
5. Um, wrong. The Charr worship the Titans, Glint's enemies.
6. Right, and you will want to read the Guild Wars manual to discover that the Door has indeed been opened before.
7. See #6.
8. The titan boss is still a regular titan, by the way.
9. Logic? How the hell is this logic? Titans are titans.
10. Well, they did. Maybe they took a boat.
11. Wrong. They were sent to their individual locations by the Lich directly.
12. Try the quests Defend Denravi and Defend North Kryta Province to see just how wrong you are.

A few more :

1.Theres a brotherhood in droknars forge -brotherhood of the dragon it hink ,which includes devotees or flint ,now why glint ?I think glint was at one time or the other called to help the dwarves fight the titans .
2.Why should the charr worship the titans ? If my perception of the titan journey is correct ,then the charr could have easily squashed the titans ,who somehow got all the way till dragons gullet unnoticed,but they didn't .In stead they worshipped them and fire .Why do you think this is ?
3.This may sound crazy ,but i think glint could be gwen.
4.I've read somewhere that glint herself makes these prophecies ,thats intriguing..
5.If anyone knows their destiny ,they have no destiny ,so obviouslt that explains why the lich failed to see his own death in teh flameseeker prophecies,and also that's the reason the mursaat guard the ring of fire, risking their lives a lot ,where as they could just hide away far away ,and they would've never died .
6.In the streets of Arah ,khilbron read the forbidden magic which sunk the entire peninsula ,and arah was the city of the gods ,put that all together and this is what you get : The scroll he read was the ultimate and supreme spell of GRENTH (or dhuum) ,which could make a common man an undead minion god ,get what im saying ?
7.And he read a scroll ,so i doubt its written by grenth himself ,someone found out the godlike ability of grenth and converted it to the from of a rune .
8. the power that made teh peninsula sink was merely an attribute of the power of the destruction bloodstone .
9.the elonians knew of the FP .Now that is a very important (and very true) sentence .Thats why they went to the crystal desert seeking ascencion .This absolutely proves my previous theories of the titans crossing elona .
10.brb on ym laptop for more of my impartment of wisdom . :P

A few more :

1.Theres a brotherhood in droknars forge -brotherhood of the dragon it hink ,which includes devotees or flint ,now why glint ?I think glint was at one time or the other called to help the dwarves fight the titans .
2.Why should the charr worship the titans ? If my perception of the titan journey is correct ,then the charr could have easily squashed the titans ,who somehow got all the way till dragons gullet unnoticed,but they didn't .In stead they worshipped them and fire .Why do you think this is ?
3.This may sound crazy ,but i think glint could be gwen.
4.I've read somewhere that glint herself makes these prophecies ,thats intriguing..
5.If anyone knows their destiny ,they have no destiny ,so obviouslt that explains why the lich failed to see his own death in teh flameseeker prophecies,and also that's the reason the mursaat guard the ring of fire, risking their lives a lot ,where as they could just hide away far away ,and they would've never died .
6.In the streets of Arah ,khilbron read the forbidden magic which sunk the entire peninsula ,and arah was the city of the gods ,put that all together and this is what you get : The scroll he read was the ultimate and supreme spell of GRENTH (or dhuum) ,which could make a common man an undead minion god ,get what im saying ?
7.And he read a scroll ,so i doubt its written by grenth himself ,someone found out the godlike ability of grenth and converted it to the from of a rune .
8. the power that made teh peninsula sink was merely an attribute of the power of the destruction bloodstone .
9.the elonians knew of the FP .Now that is a very important (and very true) sentence .Thats why they went to the crystal desert seeking ascencion .This absolutely proves my previous theories of the titans crossing elona .
10.brb on ym laptop for more of my impartment of wisdom . :P

A few more :

1.Theres a brotherhood in droknars forge -brotherhood of the dragon it hink ,which includes devotees or flint ,now why glint ?I think glint was at one time or the other called to help the dwarves fight the titans .
2.Why should the charr worship the titans ? If my perception of the titan journey is correct ,then the charr could have easily squashed the titans ,who somehow got all the way till dragons gullet unnoticed,but they didn't .In stead they worshipped them and fire .Why do you think this is ?
3.This may sound crazy ,but i think glint could be gwen.
4.I've read somewhere that glint herself makes these prophecies ,thats intriguing..
5.If anyone knows their destiny ,they have no destiny ,so obviouslt that explains why the lich failed to see his own death in teh flameseeker prophecies,and also that's the reason the mursaat guard the ring of fire, risking their lives a lot ,where as they could just hide away far away ,and they would've never died .
6.In the streets of Arah ,khilbron read the forbidden magic which sunk the entire peninsula ,and arah was the city of the gods ,put that all together and this is what you get : The scroll he read was the ultimate and supreme spell of GRENTH (or dhuum) ,which could make a common man an undead minion god ,get what im saying ?
7.And he read a scroll ,so i doubt its written by grenth himself ,someone found out the godlike ability of grenth and converted it to the from of a rune .
8. the power that made teh peninsula sink was merely an attribute of the power of the destruction bloodstone .
9.the elonians knew of the FP .Now that is a very important (and very true) sentence .Thats why they went to the crystal desert seeking ascencion .This absolutely proves my previous theories of the titans crossing elona .
10.brb on ym laptop for more of my impartment of wisdom . :P

Doomlord , yeah i didnt think of a lot of that stuff but if you read my second post ,the theory of the titans crossing elona isn't too farfetched.

Oh ,and Glint doesn't have/need any enemies ,she's practically a god.And all boulder/stones/hulking stones elementals and ice golems were once titans (or their hands and fists)

We wouldn't know what a female charr looks like .

1. They are servants of Glint, and they feed you some of the post-Hell's Precipice story.
2. The Charr worship their fire-gods, which are in fact the Titans. For more solid proof, look at the structure they build outside Nolani Academy (which is described in the Guild Wars lore as a statue of one of the Charr's gods).
3. No. Don't bring Gwen into this unless you have some sort of proof.
4. Glint is the prophet that make the Flameseeker Prophecies, arround which the game's story centers (although you don't know that to begin with).
5. What better place to hide than in a volcano in the middle of the ocean? The Door of Komalie is a portal into the Mists, and the Mursaat don't necessarily want it open, but it is powerful enough for them to take interest in it I suppose.
6. The Vizier killed himself reading that scroll, and it had nothing to do with the bloodstone. Somehow the spell brought him back as the Lich with control over the former citizens of Orr. We do not (and probably never know) the details, but we do know where the Lich came from.
7. What? Just accept that fact that the spell nuked Orr and make the Vizier a Lich. That's all we need to know for the purpose of this discussion.
8. Again, it was the scroll. Read the Guild Wars manual for details on the bloodstones. They are unrelated to the Cataclysm.
9. Um, no. The Elonans knew the Flameseeker Prophecies, true. The Prophecies mention the Titans, but that does nothing to prove your already unsubstantiated theory.
10. Just read a bit more into the lore before you give us more of this "wisdom". Triple posting is also unwise if you want to remain on the good side of the moderators.

Glint is the servant of the five gods that was sent to maintain balance in the world of Tyria. Once humans came arround and screwed that one up, she apparently decided to become a prophet. Also, there is no proof that Stone Elementals and Ice Golems are in any way connected to the Titans. In fact, it is implied by the way mobs are grouped in the Shiverpeaks that the Ice Golems are creations of the Stone Summit.

I was actually surprised that you took my harmless theories so seriously .
Why/How could the elonians possible know of the flameseekser prophecies ?WHo told them ?In any case they weren't meant to fullfill it ,or even ascend for that matter so ,the only way they could know of is if ,either glint or some other god told them ,which is unlikely, or they saw the titans crossing their lands ,and sought wisdom froma divine being ,who would've told them the truth ,if you think about it ,there is no other way they could've known .

The logical explanation is that Glint told them in some way.

Why would glint tell them if they weren't meant to ascend ?

Who says they weren't?

1. Actually i read somewhere that saul de alessio died when invading a charr camp with the Unseen Gods(mursaat). So how can charr worship them...

2. The image someone showed of a so called mursaat effigy is actually a spark of the titans...it has wings. Like i said mursaat are not worshipped by charr.

3.Glint was the first creature made by the Gods of Tyria. Well i don't think the "old" gods would make a creature who is evil. So glint isn't a god and doesn't won't gain anything by making the heroes and titans and others fight.

4. oh yeah doomlord i think makaethos solry meant that glint can see the future so why would she tell them since they wouldn't ascend anyway.

yes exactly .

1. True, it's in the GW Prophecies manual.
2. Good point, I had never really considered that. However, the Mursaat HAVE WINGS. It was more of a question I posed earlier in this thread about the effigys, and you just gave me the answer, so thanks for that.
3. She is also the servant of said gods, so their gain is hers as well.
4. I have no idea why Glint let them know. However, being a prophet IS NOT the same as seeing into the future. Prophecies are things that will happen, but not necessarily in a specific way. Glint knows that a Lich is going to come arround, help a group of ascended Chosen defeat the Mursaat and open the Door of Komalie, then betray the Chosen for the power of the Titans and be destroyed by it. Glint wants this prophecy to come true, and the one thing she really has direct control over is getting some ascended Chosen to begin with. We don't know enough specifics about the Flameseeker Prophecies to really conclude anything on this topic. Anyways, the Prophecies are indeed common knowledge among the people of Tyria - Meerak in the Frontier Gate is proof enough of that.

So as to why Glint would tell the peoples in the desert: She didn't.

Ya gotta think of the Forgotten, though. The ones in the desert, and the ones in Glint's lair. I don't know this for certain or anything, but maybe the super old race of Forgotten have had a friendly or servant-like relationship with Glint.
Again, I don't know for certain, but perhaps the Forgotten told the little bleached bones people in the desert.

The Forgotten are Glint's sevants sent by the gods to rule Tyria before the rise of man. When humans arrived, the gods raised the Crystal Desert up out of the sea and gave it to the Forgotten to live in, since apparently they weren't getting along with humans.

Glint's servants ? No ,they were directly sent by the gods .
We're going way off -topic by the way .And all this stuff that you say that its in teh manual ,it ain't in my manuscripts at all..

I still don't understand why the Charr worship fire ,and if it's because they worship the titans which are practically fire, why do they worship the titans ?
Im sure that if an 8 man group could eliminate practically three fourths of teh titan armada ,then a whole race of charr could definately do so too.

why is it so unbelievable that the charr would worship fire? Lots of ancient peoples have worshipped volcano's or fire gods etc. The burning titans, you know, burned, so perhaps they believed the titans were avatars of a sort, and worshipped them as such. The charr do have many effigies of the mursaat, which is a little harder to explain. thats the confusing part for me. Maybe it has something to do with the charr not having access to infusion and being so heavily defeated by the mursaat intimidated them into submission?

Sent by the gods to be Glints servants.

The Charr worship the Titans as their gods, and since the Titans have a certain fiery quality to them, the Charr worship fire as a symbol of their gods. I'm really not quite sure what is so hard to understand about this.

As was discussed earlier, the effigies may well be of the Hands/Fists of the Titans, which would make more sense. Otherwise, it would be hard for the Charr to accept the Mursaat into their religion because the Mursaat are air elementals, not fire. Here's another possiblity: the effigies represent the Mursaat being burned (they ARE on fire) by the titans in some ancient conflict in which the Charr took part alongside the Titans.