With reference to this thread: (a true gem of a flamewar)
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=37159
You saw this one coming, didn't you?
So seriously, switching armors in-game (both in pvp and pve) to reap different benefits according to the situation sounds like a serious balancing flaw to me, especially with regard to pvp-only players, who only have one armor at any given time.
Edit: Shayne Hawke: Armor swapping has been disabled in PvP for a long time now. Further discussion should only be on the implementation of this in PvE.
No armor switching in-game
Lagg
EmperorTippy
It's what they get for being PvP chars. If we give them the armor I will feel bad for having run 6 chars through the whole game unlocking all skills on both accounts and most upgrades. I did that because of very minimal and conditional bonuses (such as switching armor).
PieXags
While I enjoy switching armors with my necro, I will say that I don't think it's fair. I just feel the need to because no other classes armor has a penalty as big as the necro armor, which depending on the set dramtically decreases protection against holy damage, which really pisses me off. No other class gets screwed by a certain type of damage because of their armor, so I switch between two sets of necro armor...but even though it's possible and beneficial to do it...
Yeah, I agree, you shouldn't be able to switch armor during PvP battles like you currently can, it's really not fair (especially to PvP only characters...and those who can't afford more than one set), in a real battle you don't come carrying an extra set of armor and change in the midst of battle, you come in your armor and fight in it, and that's how it should be.
Yeah, I agree, you shouldn't be able to switch armor during PvP battles like you currently can, it's really not fair (especially to PvP only characters...and those who can't afford more than one set), in a real battle you don't come carrying an extra set of armor and change in the midst of battle, you come in your armor and fight in it, and that's how it should be.
ShinJin Kahn
What about people that switch abtribute point in a match?, at the start of a match i have 12 in smiting, cast all my enchantments then drop the 12 down to 8 and put the remaining atb in strength and axe, should that be stopped too?.
If people wanna change their stuff mid game then let, it's not easy to change a full set of armour or abt points while underfire so I think it's unfair to take it away.
If people wanna change their stuff mid game then let, it's not easy to change a full set of armour or abt points while underfire so I think it's unfair to take it away.
chaos dragoon
i believe it is unfair(being one of those that cant afford extra armor).that type of bonus should not be only for pve/rich people.
Lagg
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Originally Posted by ShinJin Kahn
If people wanna change their stuff mid game then let, it's not easy to change a full set of armour or abt points while underfire so I think it's unfair to take it away.
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And I'm sure the really experienced pvp players will have learned how to master this technique in no time, whereas more casual players don't even realise that it's possible, let alone practise it. This serves just to further increase the gap between players. I believe there are more interesting ways to prove one's worth.
And about the attribute points specifically, we could just get rid of refund points altogether. Letting you change and rearrange as much as you like in town, and locking them as soon you enter the game.
ShinJin Kahn
lolz, sorry to say this, but what excatly do you think top players do that make them top players?.
Do you see tennis casuals going to Wimbledon or the Austrailian open to compete with the top players then complain when they lose about imbalence?
Top player are better not only cos their skill lefvel is higher, but also cos their knowelage is alot higher then the casual players, they know ALOT about the game, which armours to wear in each situation, which weapons, which skill, how to counter each skill, recognize each skill from the start up.
I dislike people trying to flatten the playing field, trying to make everything the same, it's very bland, remember street fight 1 where you could only pick ryu?, that game sure had diversity.......
Do you see tennis casuals going to Wimbledon or the Austrailian open to compete with the top players then complain when they lose about imbalence?
Top player are better not only cos their skill lefvel is higher, but also cos their knowelage is alot higher then the casual players, they know ALOT about the game, which armours to wear in each situation, which weapons, which skill, how to counter each skill, recognize each skill from the start up.
I dislike people trying to flatten the playing field, trying to make everything the same, it's very bland, remember street fight 1 where you could only pick ryu?, that game sure had diversity.......
Lagg
We're once again treading on the very thin ice of game design and development decisions. As a rule, what can be done to achieve an advantage, should be done. Just think of the bodyblock strategy to win HoH.
Personally (and I should underline this, in italics, caps and bold), hold on, PERSONALLY, as a very irregular HoH visitor, I would say: whatever makes you pvp'ers happy, but I think it's an exploit to some degree. Yes, you can call this "trying to flatten the playing field", but can you tell me with a straight face that this is the way the game is intended to be played? Okay, it won't ever be as balanced as chess, but come on.
I'd rather see top players being top players due to their builds and team tactics than some obscure way of mastering the system. To bring up chess again, it's like having a pawn taken en passant. But then again, I live in an imaginary world where fairplay exists.
Anyways, I know I'm staying away from pvp from now on. I won't be missed.
Personally (and I should underline this, in italics, caps and bold), hold on, PERSONALLY, as a very irregular HoH visitor, I would say: whatever makes you pvp'ers happy, but I think it's an exploit to some degree. Yes, you can call this "trying to flatten the playing field", but can you tell me with a straight face that this is the way the game is intended to be played? Okay, it won't ever be as balanced as chess, but come on.
I'd rather see top players being top players due to their builds and team tactics than some obscure way of mastering the system. To bring up chess again, it's like having a pawn taken en passant. But then again, I live in an imaginary world where fairplay exists.
Anyways, I know I'm staying away from pvp from now on. I won't be missed.
ShinJin Kahn
build on the whole can be copied, just click on someone health bar and you see every skill as they use it, also you can kinda tell what they'll be doing by their class combination.
If you remove the small things that make top players then the game become a noob fest where everyone is digustingly powerful and and kill in one or two hits. which isin't fun for anyone.
If you remove the small things that make top players then the game become a noob fest where everyone is digustingly powerful and and kill in one or two hits. which isin't fun for anyone.
PieXags
If the only "skill" top players have over normal players is to switch attributes and gear once a battles started I'm going to have to say they don't deserve to be considered top players anyway, if they're good enough they'll stay good without being able to switch gear in-game, it still takes skill and knowledge to master one's skill set and put it to use in the midst of battle.
John Bloodstone
For PvE I dont think armour switching matters - having to go back to town to use my new collectors armour would be a bit of a drawback. However, for PvP I'm with the OP on this one, it shouldn't be allowed.
The whole point of taking a set of armour is that you have evaluated the situation and chosen the armour that best suits your build and the situation you expect to encounter. i.e - you're going to take armour with greater AL vs elemental damage if you're expecting to come up against Elementalists. The same goes for skills; you take the skills that suit your build and your build suits the expected situation.
So, if you can't change your skills in the middle of a game, why on earth should you be able to change your armour? You might find out that one particular skill you brought is useless because you're facing the wrong team, but you'll never be at a disadvantage with armour because you can swap it over in an instant. Not only that, but the people who can afford to bring a set of every type of armour into a battle are going to have an advantage over those that don't.
The whole point of taking a set of armour is that you have evaluated the situation and chosen the armour that best suits your build and the situation you expect to encounter. i.e - you're going to take armour with greater AL vs elemental damage if you're expecting to come up against Elementalists. The same goes for skills; you take the skills that suit your build and your build suits the expected situation.
So, if you can't change your skills in the middle of a game, why on earth should you be able to change your armour? You might find out that one particular skill you brought is useless because you're facing the wrong team, but you'll never be at a disadvantage with armour because you can swap it over in an instant. Not only that, but the people who can afford to bring a set of every type of armour into a battle are going to have an advantage over those that don't.
Pandora's box
A don't see any reason to forbid armor switching. Everyone has the same possibillities here. Only players who are not fast enough to switch would dislike it, but that's their problem 
PieXags
PvP only characters don't have the option, that's why it's unfair.
John Bloodstone
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Originally Posted by PieXags
PvP only characters don't have the option, that's why it's unfair.
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RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by John Bloodstone
Not to mention the whole skill over hours played mantra goes out the window as well - who can afford to have every set of armour with all the rune upgrades in them?
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I think they should allow people to switch... BUT... add a massive 5-10 sec delay between switching.
Aniewiel
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Power Farms, but that's another topic.
I think they should allow people to switch... BUT... add a massive 5-10 sec delay between switching. |
RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by Aniewiel
Or maybe disable skills for 10-20 seconds on armor OR skill change?
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Aniewiel
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
No talk of skill changing... that would be scary O_o
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Mavrik
I only play PvE and switch armor from time to time when outside a town. I see nothing wrong or "unbalanced" about it.
Algren Cole
let's make every character a warrior and only have 8 skills in the game...that way strategy, thought, and technique bear no weight in a game based around strategy, thought, and technique...
John Bloodstone
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
let's make every character a warrior and only have 8 skills in the game...that way strategy, thought, and technique bear no weight in a game based around strategy, thought, and technique...
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Algren Cole
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Originally Posted by John Bloodstone
Lets take things to absolute extremes to try and counter someone's point...
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sounds good to me
Red Sonya
Switching armor in the middle of battle or changing attribute points is a rediculous ability and should be "nerfed". No battle in the history of mankind did anyone change armor or all of a sudden gain new abilities during the battle at the loss of another. lol Yes, this is "totally a gamey tactic" and I'm sure the Devs will look into it and nerf it eventually.
It truely amazes me how many people just look for ways to exploit the mechanics of a game instead of playing in a realistic manner. Spirit building groups is another topic that highly needs to be "nerfed" as well. Only one spirit at a time allowed per spirit builder, that will solve that issue very well.
It truely amazes me how many people just look for ways to exploit the mechanics of a game instead of playing in a realistic manner. Spirit building groups is another topic that highly needs to be "nerfed" as well. Only one spirit at a time allowed per spirit builder, that will solve that issue very well.
Xue Yi Liang
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Switching armor in the middle of battle or changing attribute points is a rediculous ability and should be "nerfed". No battle in the history of mankind did anyone change armor or all of a sudden gain new abilities during the battle at the loss of another. lol Yes, this is "totally a gamey tactic" and I'm sure the Devs will look into it and nerf it eventually.
It truely amazes me how many people just look for ways to exploit the mechanics of a game instead of playing in a realistic manner. Spirit building groups is another topic that highly needs to be "nerfed" as well. Only one spirit at a time allowed per spirit builder, that will solve that issue very well. |
Lagg
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Originally Posted by Algren Cole
let's make every character a warrior and only have 8 skills in the game...that way strategy, thought, and technique bear no weight in a game based around strategy, thought, and technique...
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Mavrik
The game has tough enough areas as it is. Since we can't change our skills outside of town, whats the deal if PvE players decide to try and get an advange and switch their armor? I doubt there is much of a gain even if you did. I took the same damage against fire imps wearing hydromancer armor as I did when I switch over to pyromancer armor... so everyone stop your whining at getting owned in PvP and claiming "well they switched their armor, they cheated." Oh big deal.
Iceciro
I've seen people do this in GvG according to the enemies attacls, too. And there's plenty of time to switch there... Ever hit someone with a thunder attack, watched them duck behind a rock and reappear in Aeromancer's armor? It's about the most annoying thing I've ever seen.
Unfortunantly for him, that's when our Geomancer came behind him and killed him with Obsidian Flame... but I digress.
Anyways, this needs to be nerfed. It's a stupid, pointless exploit.
Unfortunantly for him, that's when our Geomancer came behind him and killed him with Obsidian Flame... but I digress.
Anyways, this needs to be nerfed. It's a stupid, pointless exploit.
Lagg
BRING OUT ZEE NERFBAT!
I fear I've just peed in a large punchbowl.
I fear I've just peed in a large punchbowl.
Damon Windwalker
Sure - if you cvan afford the cost and inventory space of an extra set of armor, I'm all for you changing armor.
Of course, it should take some time for you to do it, during which you will not only be completely armorless, but also have the possibility of being caught off-balance, limited movement of your arms, or other such temporary "ailments."
Of course, it should take some time for you to do it, during which you will not only be completely armorless, but also have the possibility of being caught off-balance, limited movement of your arms, or other such temporary "ailments."
Yen-lo-wang
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Originally Posted by Lagg
So seriously, switching armors in-game (both in pvp and pve) to reap different benefits according to the situation sounds like a serious balancing flaw to me, especially with regard to pvp-only players, who only have one armor at any given time.
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In PvP I start and end with the same set on, no switching.
Kishin
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Switching armor in the middle of battle or changing attribute points is a rediculous ability and should be "nerfed". No battle in the history of mankind did anyone change armor or all of a sudden gain new abilities during the battle at the loss of another. lol Yes, this is "totally a gamey tactic" and I'm sure the Devs will look into it and nerf it eventually.
It truely amazes me how many people just look for ways to exploit the mechanics of a game instead of playing in a realistic manner. Spirit building groups is another topic that highly needs to be "nerfed" as well. Only one spirit at a time allowed per spirit builder, that will solve that issue very well. |
And for the record, most people don't play games involving swords, spells, dragons and demons for their realistic quality. This isn't a medieval warfare simulator.
Lagg
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Originally Posted by Kishin
This isn't a medieval warfare simulator.
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Microsoft Medieval Warfare Simulator, As Sharp As It Gets!
(oh wait, it's called Age of Kings)
johnnylange
No player should ever have to switch armor before, during, or right after a battle while in game. If you feel you need to switch armor during a battle then you really need to figure out what you're doing wrong.
Ask your self: "Am I using skills that are most effective and balanced for the battles i'm going in?" "Are my attrib points focused in only the skills I use most?", and "Do I often run into a large group of monsters and wonder why I was killed so quickly?" If you answered yes to any or all of these questions, then take the corrective actions.
Ask your self: "Am I using skills that are most effective and balanced for the battles i'm going in?" "Are my attrib points focused in only the skills I use most?", and "Do I often run into a large group of monsters and wonder why I was killed so quickly?" If you answered yes to any or all of these questions, then take the corrective actions.
ShinJin Kahn
Everyone that says armour swapping should be stoped is an idiot and knows nothing about this game.
jonnylange you are a noob.
Red Sonya you are a noob.
PieXags your not a noob, but your wrong in this situation.
fin~
jonnylange you are a noob.
Red Sonya you are a noob.
PieXags your not a noob, but your wrong in this situation.
fin~
Kiiron
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Originally Posted by Kishin
This isn't a medieval warfare simulator.
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Anyway, back on topic, maybe there would be a way only allow switching while not in combat? Kind of like how you can't salvage or ID things for a few seconds after attacking.
Dyeeo
Just have it so armor is like ident/salvage tools. Have it so you have to wait a while after fighting to change your armor. "You have fought too recently to change your armor"
ShinJin Kahn
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Originally Posted by Dyeeo
Just have it so armor is like ident/salvage tools. Have it so you have to wait a while after fighting to change your armor. "You have fought too recently to change your armor"
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PieXags
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Originally Posted by ShinJin Kahn
Everyone that says armour swapping should be stoped is an idiot and knows nothing about this game.
jonnylange you are a noob. Red Sonya you are a noob. PieXags your not a noob, but your wrong in this situation. fin~ |
On another note, I wouldn't set it in stone that I'm wrong. Wouldn't any more than to say I was right, actually. It's my opinion that I think it's unfair, there's a big difference between tormentors set and the cultists set for a necro, especially when dealing with holy damage, I switch armors frequently in battle for these situations. But just because I do it, does that mean I think it's fair? Not really, I just don't like the way necros get weakened against something like that, it's stupid. Especially since necros can have monk secondaries.
I like to keep things pretty simple though, I wouldn't mind saying "Damnit...wrong set of armor," like I do when I'm missing a skill, 'cept then I say "Damnit, should've brought _____ (replace with skill name)"
You get the idea, I'm not too concerned about it either way though, I just like to put forth my opinion.
ShinJin Kahn
Fair enough, but dont you think that they gave you the option to change weapons with just the F1-F4 buttons to suit the situation it should allow for armour changing too?.
Sure it might be unfair, but really, who can't afford the 8k or so for a full set of armour?, and most people dont change the full set, just helm, chest and maybe legs, and it's not exactly game breaking, just helps survive a little better.
Sure it might be unfair, but really, who can't afford the 8k or so for a full set of armour?, and most people dont change the full set, just helm, chest and maybe legs, and it's not exactly game breaking, just helps survive a little better.
PieXags
That still doesn't solve how PvP only characters (with whom this mostly concerns), how they only get one set of armor and are unable to switch like PvE characters brought into PvP. That's the main reason I think it's unfair.