The economy broken? Really?

I'm just wondering... If the economy is so broken that everything costs +100K, howcome it is impossible to sell max damage weapons which do not have all maxed upgrades for more than at most a couple of thousand?

I've spent the morning clearing my storage, trying to sell e.g. a gold vampiric maxdamage longbow 2/-1, +21 health, +5 armor, req 8 marksmanship. It took me half an hour and repeated visits to different districts in Ascalon, Yaks Bend, Amnoon, and Lions Arch to get an offer of 3000 for it.

Purple/gold max damage hammers with +4-5 armor, longer enchant, or +20ish health, or +1 hammer mastery didn't move until I had dropped the price to 300 gold. All had requirements under 9.

I had four purple/gold max armor shields, requirement tactics 7-9. I tried to sell them for 1000, but ended up selling one, which had +20 health while in stance, for 300 gold, the others I had to sell to a merchant. Noone wanted them. Same happened with non-max sword, axe, and hammer upgrades: noone wanted a single one, even for 100 gold.

I did however get a whopping 1500 gold for a gold max-damage Flamberge with +17% damage in a stance and +5 armor in a stance, req 7 swordsmanship.

IMO the problem isn't inflation, it's mudflation.

It's just that the people complaining about inflation want a gold max perfect everything storm bow, eternal shield, chaos axe, or fellblade (because they LOOK good). Nothing else. And they want it cheap.

gold does not mean good...that longbow is junk. The refire rate on a longbow makes the 2/-1 worthless...even spamming dual shot or coupling with barrage you are barely breaking even. +21HP isn't something a Ranger Needs.

The problem with shields is that nobody cares...+16 armor isn't worth the extra money when you get +15 or +14 drops all the time...and that +14 or +15 shields go for under 500gold.

There is no market for Non-Max weapons(unfortunately)

[QUOTE=Algren Cole]gold does not mean good...that longbow is junk. QUOTE]

question please on vampiric

is a 4/-1 bowstring
ok
good
or very good
but but the best by a long shot

i got one a while ago

edit

stupid question but is it worth anything?

it all depends on the bow Loviatar. The problem with vampiric is that you are losing 1 every second...and nothing in the game attacks at a rate fast enough to make up for the -1 every second. So you need to couple the weapon with a skill that attacks multiple targets to really see it's benefit. You also need to use a bow with the fastest refire rate. Short Bow, halfmoon & flatbow are the best bows for vampiric upgrades(presumably the best in the game for this upgrade). The refire rate on halfmoon, short bow & flatbow is 2.0 seconds with an arrow flight time of .65 seconds. Couple this with a dual shot or barrage and you'll easily make up the -1.

Of the Vampiric Strings I've used on my ranger I've found that it's difficult to make up for the degen until you've hit 3/-1(which becomes significantly easier than 2/-1). With a 3/-1 coupled with something as simple as just Dual Shot you're gaining 6HP every 2 seconds or so and have only lost 2 HP. So even with a primitive vampiric build the advantages are obvious. 4/-1 is in my opinion the best vampiric upgrade for a ranger. You aren't spending 100K for a silly string like you would with 5/-1 and the difference between the HP gains of 5/-1 and 4/-1 are negligible.

From what i've witnessed Tigers Fury/Barrage is the best way to take advantage of vampiric bow strings. Could even mess around with the effeciency of spirits to speed up flight times.

bottom line: 4/-1 is a VERY good if not best vampiric bowstring.(IMHO)

thank you

i have a ranger sightseeing in presear which i may use it on later with a decent bow.

also i will have another non vampiric bow to switch off to as fast as i can as well

I want to know where you get these wonderful figures from. Do you sit there with a stop watch?
I have read a fair bit of tech stuff about the game on this site, but I have yet to see A.net back it up.
The stuff about armours and how its worked out, etc etc.
Either you are disecting the actually code to get these tit bits, you know an insider who codes the game or you make it all up on the spot.
Please let me know were you guys get all this wonderful info.

P.S. this is not intended as an attack on anyone, but I would really like to know how you get said info.

This is why you need to post these items on auction places on forums like this one. I would easily pay 5k for that flamberge, maybe more.

Sucks, don't it?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ies-id1092.php

the information contained in that guide is pretty accurate for bows...though I personally think the numbers for the composite bow are off...though I could have just not timed it correctly. I had closer to 2.6 for the refire rate.

Others have pointed this out differently, but let me summarize:

Guild wars is not a game about collecting gear.

No one needs your stuff, so no one wants to buy it. Sure, you're going to find someone who thinks that items are important and will trade you for them, but the game is not about finding the best items.

I wonder if people like me that pop into Ascalon and give those things away are having an effect?

The guild wars "economy" is non-existant really. There's no reason to buy anything other than for it's appearance and if you're buying a stormbow you probably want it to be as good as the free items so you're going to need it to be perfect. But perfect rare bows etc. are rare so people know they can charge for them. take this sale for example: Link

My collectors ascalon bow with 15%>50 and armour +5 (req 8 or 9 IIRC) is better than that and I haven't even decided on a bowstring to put in it yet. My bow cost me 2k for the 5 frozen shells because I was too lazy to go and get them myself, this bow is going for 60k so far and a perfect 15>50 would be well over 100k by now but it would still not be better than the ugly but functional collectors ascalon longbow. People pay for the looks not for the stats. The stats are easy to get but the look and the stats are not, so it costs.

You don't understand - I'm not complaining that noone wanted my gear, or that I didn't get enough money. I've got plenty.
I'm complaining about the people complaining that "everything" in Guildwars is too expensive. That the economy is broken and suffering from hyperinflation.

But that isn't the case at all. Only perfect weapons and only of a very few types are really expensive.

Another way of putting it is this: Insomuch as the GW economy at all has a problem, it isn't too much cash (inflation), it's too many high-level items (mudflation).

Great point! I have no problems whatsoever with the economy.

Granted, I don't hawk my wares, I just sell off(to merchant) or give away what I don't need. Still, I find no real issues other than the Superior vigor being 87 plat(give or take) and the Sup vigor not even on the rune seller's list whenever I check, lol

5:1 bow string on a long bow+mending= awsome

That's the part thats broken, no one is interested in midlevel items. Why buy them? Everyone only cares about certain items.

If in fact there were some level restrictions on things there'd be a more robust economy.

Hey everyone says they don't wanna grind, collect items, or worry about levels and this is what they get. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Yeah, I agree that what is happening is "mudflation". As for PvE, it is a type of broken economy. As a fan of many RPG and PvE games, I think this type of economy has completely ruined the game. Two of my friends just brought the game and are starting from the beginning, with the intention of doing every quest in the game and not rushing or charging ahead. I made a new character to play with them. One of them finds a black dye and sells it for 10k (this was during the older patch when black dye went up to as high as 30k). After selling the dye the moment he got to Ascalon, he was able to buy the best set of Ascalon armor and a desert collector sword (statistically the best in the game already) and 5 minor runes for his armor. We were invulnerable until Yak's bend. When the game was released, there was actually a reason to do the sidequests because you need time to gather materials (which were way to expensive to buy), gold, and weapons. This type of economy forces players through the game so fast that PvE is no longer as enjoyable as it should be.

Now on the otherside, the PvP side, people who played the game once don't want to play it again at least two more times. They want to unlock skills fast, so they farmed (which is what led to the severe depression of material prices, steel dropped about 10x from 2000g to 200g a piece compared to the early days) trying to get runes and components as well as money and equipment for their next characters. This is probably why running services began, because players wanted to get through the game faster. The PvP unlocking system simply conflicts with PvE playing in general.

So basically right now, because of this type of economy, everything is dirt cheap except the extremely good and cool looking items. Stuff is so cheap that everybody is almost given the best possible equipment (statistically) at the beginning of the game. Even for new players, the only thing really that is left to do is to get cooler looking stuff.

Dammit ,i am still waiting for a Stone of Jordan to drop!!!

Point of interest

With -1 regen you are actually losing .30 en per second. Takes 3 secs to lose 1 en.

Angel: I should have been more specific the 1 I am refering to is 1 pip not 1 hit point.

It certainly takes all the fun out of the loot, that's for sure. It's not until you get to the Lions Arch area you have decent chance of getting a drop of ANYTHING you could not buy for 2-300.

The solution is an item sink. You listening, Anet?

I would easily pay 700k for that flamberge, seeing as it has impossible stats...

And there goes another thread off the rails. God, I hate nitpickers.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and I want to split my response in two, half to address the "perfect only" argument and half to address the "cheap" argument. First, let me ask a question. What's the difference between a +29 and a +30 fortitude mod? I mean, in this game, 1 hit point really doesn't matter. And yet a +30 can easily sell for 20K more than a +29...why? For that matter, why is a 14-27 bow hideously worse than a 15-28 with the same mods? The answer is it's not...I think there's an epidemic of high level/maxed players selling unnecessarily powerful stuff in low level areas. Back when I was a new player just starting out in post-Searing Ascalon and Yak's Bend, I couldn't sell any of the gold, modded weapons that I got as drops because they weren't max damage, and as soon as I showed them to a potential buyer, I got flamed...you don't need a max, perfect weapon in low level areas. I realize it's none of my business how other PvEr's play, but considering that Anet clearly intends trade and business to be a serious aspect of the game, it's really annoying and offputting until you get to the toughest areas in the game (which give crap drops now that they've mostly been nerfed).

Addressing the second point...here's a true story. I once got a gold wingblade drop...max dmg, 11 swordsmanship, dmg +12% hp>50, enchantments last 15% longer. I had people flame me for asking 20K for it. Someone actually had the balls to offer me 1.5K. I finally managed to sell it to someone for 38K. I don't really have much of a point with this story, other than it's germane to what Numa is trying to say and it really, really pissed me off...

as someone who has made around 500k selling and buying, i would have to say the problem is you, not the economy. example: gold max fire staff, +56 life, improves cast 8%. now, by your logic, this would go for little, maybe not even 10k since it is not perfect. FACT: i sold it for 40k 3 days ago.

heres another example, max flamberge, with something like +7 armor vs physical and some other not-so-great stat(it was blue). going by what was stated here, it would go for 1, maybe 1.5k. sold for 5.5k. i could go on.


as for my selling ethics(which i fear may come into question), i DO NOT do bidding(or in other words possibly jack up prices with fake bids), and i do not even ask for offers.



Xanatos: this is a game played with real people, which opens the door for people to be assholes. dont complain about "getting flamed" for trying to sell something, it will happen no matter what you sell no matter where you are.

Gee, Larry, too bad I've made 300K in two months of this game, currently have 122K in my account, that's after 15K armor, black and silver dye, gold and purple weapons, etc etc...

You wanna play a game of brag? Fact: I bought a silver dye for 1.5K at the height of the stock boom (when silver was trading at 7 plat) and black dye for 11. Sold them both for 23K. Fact: I sold a Mursaat Hammer, 18-34 req 8, dmg while hexed, for 20K, after getting moron offers of 500g for it. None of what you write impresses me. I can play the economy as well as most, that doesn't mean I think it isn't broken. In fact, what's even the point of your "examples?" Am I supposed to be impressed or something? Because I'm not...

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be sending me editorials about my prices. Disagree with what I want for an item? Don't buy it. There's no reason why I should put up with that kind of crap...I bought this game to have fun, not to have people who sound like 8 year olds harass me. Why shouldn't I complain about it?

+7 is perfect, I thought. That would have come from a gold sword then. But that aside, nobody said that you had to have max damage items. Close to max doesn't count either. We're talking about lower level items, the blues and purples.

Xanatos, I hear ya, but this isn't the thread for it. Just drop the subject, ignore Larry.

The problem with your analogy is that we never got our cake. Where is that damned cake?

There are lots of examples of broken issues in the economy. Try trading off that Mesmer sup rune for an essentialy equal Monk sup? Not very likely. It's not because Mesmers are junk, they actualy do very well PvP, and better than many think in PvE. You can blame the total lack of availability of Monk runes at any price on the 105/55 keebler elves running around, but not the cost disparity.

How about selling dye's? I wouldn't bother to dye anything, and would sell it all off if was worth anything at all. I only started dying my crap because there wasn't any other use for it.

This economy is broken down into 2 catagories, those items that command a rediculous price and everything else. It's all Ferrari's and Yugo's. Never mind finding a Porsche, I'd settle for a few Toyota's. Economies like this one are not really sustainable. Unlike real life, the have-nots tend to just go away.

Mesmer runes vs Monk runes is a bad argument Sayshina. More people play Monks than Mesmers, partly because of the 105/55 build, party because beginning players think they're weak.

Dyes are a gold sink, and they let players individualize. If you sold to other players, you could get a more decent price than the dye trader.

And the "cake" is the mudflation of maxed out weapons.

Inflation is a different animal in GW. There won't ever be a point where everything is above most people's means to buy them.

The way we get money in the game will always be something that increases. We can go out and get gold anytime. In rl your wages often will not keep pace with rising prices.

This is going to be a huge problem for people in the next 20 years in rl. In the game, we never have to worry about it. That I am thankful for.

If someone cannot afford the best of the uber god wept best, then they are either not saving their gold, not selling to the player rather than the undercut merchant, or they are lying through their addle brained teeth.

I got a max damage weapon. I KEPT it. I did not continue spending my gold on whatever it is people seem to be spending it all on.

SAVE, and see how much of the economy is shoddy for you.

And no, telling me that 100k items are the problem is not in line with my statement. The items are there, to drop, if you look. You can find them from decent players for REASONABLE prices, and a good place to look is in the trade section of these very forums.

Stop bitching and take the reigns of your game back into your own choices and be cognizant of those choices, and stop blaming a phanton issue.

The key to the Guild Wars economy is stupidity. The whole thing is fueled by stupidity. On a PvE character you can get by with practically anything. People have no clue what the value of things really are. They are obsessed with getting a "perfect" item so they can own everything. The thing is anything works fine, grab any max damage sword (even a white one) and you are fine. The real damage output comes from skills and the best items are almost all available from collectors (20/20s.) To fix the guild wars economy something to normalize prices and provide a marketplace for intelligent players to trade efficiently in is necessary. Ask anyone and they will tell you trading is like being in the center of the world's largest special ed class.

[/signed]

It's not for you, but it is for others. There are items in the game, and almost a trading system - hence part of the game is certainly about collecting items. The NPC collectors also hint that collecting is part of the game - or can be if that's what you want.

The game is about what floats your boat. For some it's all about standing in front of a frog all day and chanting 'frog'

My boat just sank, Still, I needed a better one anyway - oohh! maybe a gold one this time!

Well it's these stupid people that help me make money

If you have the patience to hang out spamming sales adds for red dye, which will still get you butkis, more power to you. Tell me, have you managed to sell a yellow for anything near enough to justify holding onto it?

The Mo vs. Me MIGHT possibly have a point. But my primary point was that there are a few items worth money, and everything else is worth NOTHING. They don't just have a low value, they're worthless. You can't sell a sup mes rune. People won't buy them if you offer them for 50g. You can't sell a sup necro rune either. In fact, there are 87 runes in the game. The 5 monk sup's have value for now, but I wouldn't count on that lasting much longer. Swords, absorb, fire, air, vigor, and major absorb and vigor are the ONLY runes worth anything. And it's not like most of them are worth all THAT much either.

Non-maxed items are worth whatever the trader will give you for them. Some maxed items are worth a little bit, a very few are worth any real cash. And in any case you must spend more time trying to sell the damned thing than it would have taken to farm that much gold running say birds.

The economy is broken because there is no middle ground. There is only the top and everything else. And everything else equals trash.