I'm not sure whether to go domination or illusion, right now I have domination gear, but I'm willing to change if illusion is better.
I'm going with a Mes/Necro build for PvP and I have no idea which build I should use. I will be most likely supporting a spike group and I don't know whether I should be shutdown, energy denial, or anything else. So far I have 16 into domination with my mask and sup dom rune. However, I do not know which other attributes to use and how much to put into fast cast. Please help me decide which Me/N build will be most effective with domination magic. If domination magic isn't good, please suggest how I should use illusion magic or anything else. (also need to know how to utilize my necro secondary profession).
Thanks in advance.
Help with Mes/N Build in PvP
Siphon
Morganas
Domination's good, but here's the mega-awesome mes/nec fragility build I've been using anyways (works best in nice big GvG games):
Go illusion, inspiration, and death, with leftovers in fast cast. Death should be no higher than to allow virulence to last 10 secs, as you don't want it lasting longer than its recast time.
Take plague touch, illusion of haste, virulence, phantom pain, fragility, energy tap, ether feast, and res signet.
Here's how to use it: cast illusion of haste at the beginning of battle, then choose your target, preferably a charge-happy warrior. Wait for the battle to actually start, you don't the other team noticing your fragility right away, then cast phantom pain then fragility on your target. Persue him with your super speed, and start casting plague touch just before illusion of haste cripples you (this takes timing that you'll haveta pick up, pay attention to the blinking icon). Now he's crippled, and hopefully behind enemy lines. Cast virulence, he sees health fall drastically. Recast fragility and virulence as often as you can (remember, don't raise death magic too high), while renewing illusion of haste for cripple. Use leech signet and tap to get energy back.
Go illusion, inspiration, and death, with leftovers in fast cast. Death should be no higher than to allow virulence to last 10 secs, as you don't want it lasting longer than its recast time.
Take plague touch, illusion of haste, virulence, phantom pain, fragility, energy tap, ether feast, and res signet.
Here's how to use it: cast illusion of haste at the beginning of battle, then choose your target, preferably a charge-happy warrior. Wait for the battle to actually start, you don't the other team noticing your fragility right away, then cast phantom pain then fragility on your target. Persue him with your super speed, and start casting plague touch just before illusion of haste cripples you (this takes timing that you'll haveta pick up, pay attention to the blinking icon). Now he's crippled, and hopefully behind enemy lines. Cast virulence, he sees health fall drastically. Recast fragility and virulence as often as you can (remember, don't raise death magic too high), while renewing illusion of haste for cripple. Use leech signet and tap to get energy back.
Yukito Kunisaki
that mega-awesome build doesn't sound too effective. It's DoT on one guy with some latent spiking.
If you're going to start DoT fights, I HIGHLY suggest using skills that cause EVERYONE on the enemy team's hp to just suffer. Suffering may be crap at 2 degen but considering how dangerous disease is, it adds up quite nicely. Degen is crap. Mass degen on many enemies is GOOD. ^_^ If you want Degen, Illusion really is the way to go. Conjure Phantasm, Phantom Pain, Faintheartedness. Blam, with high stats, that's 9-10 degen. Problem, it's only on one guy. Solution? Steal energy and do it to two people. Or 3 tops. But the mass degen task is tricky. One former guildmate said to just use Conjure with Faintheartedness and high stats. 8 degen on 4+ people... hmm...
I say Inspiration with Curses is pretty much about all you may need. Casters with low or no energy, disabled. WArriors and rangers with no attack speed or afflicted with weakness, disabled...
I like disabling.
If you're going to start DoT fights, I HIGHLY suggest using skills that cause EVERYONE on the enemy team's hp to just suffer. Suffering may be crap at 2 degen but considering how dangerous disease is, it adds up quite nicely. Degen is crap. Mass degen on many enemies is GOOD. ^_^ If you want Degen, Illusion really is the way to go. Conjure Phantasm, Phantom Pain, Faintheartedness. Blam, with high stats, that's 9-10 degen. Problem, it's only on one guy. Solution? Steal energy and do it to two people. Or 3 tops. But the mass degen task is tricky. One former guildmate said to just use Conjure with Faintheartedness and high stats. 8 degen on 4+ people... hmm...
I say Inspiration with Curses is pretty much about all you may need. Casters with low or no energy, disabled. WArriors and rangers with no attack speed or afflicted with weakness, disabled...
I like disabling.
Morganas
Clearly you aren't aware that "mega-awesome" is merely slang for "slight DOT with some spiking ability." Get with the times.
In all seriousness, the build is quite good for single target damage, possibly better than anything else out there. It can kill warrior flag runners before the first fragility runs out, and having a running ability is invaluable. With the cripple thrown in, any player who runs out of their monks healing range is as good as dead, and if not, they require constant monk attention, which, coupled with the weakness and cripple, is like shutting down two characters.
It also makes a great scout/flag runner, or a guild thief assasin.
BTW, if mass degen is your bag, mesmer is never the answer. Ranger, nec, or even warrior with ranger secondary do it much much better.
In all seriousness, the build is quite good for single target damage, possibly better than anything else out there. It can kill warrior flag runners before the first fragility runs out, and having a running ability is invaluable. With the cripple thrown in, any player who runs out of their monks healing range is as good as dead, and if not, they require constant monk attention, which, coupled with the weakness and cripple, is like shutting down two characters.
It also makes a great scout/flag runner, or a guild thief assasin.
BTW, if mass degen is your bag, mesmer is never the answer. Ranger, nec, or even warrior with ranger secondary do it much much better.
Rajamic
I've received the Nerco Fragility, and it is scary. Though the above example is way to complex and iffy.
Fragility -> Phantom Pain -> (optional Shatter Delusions to get the Deep Wound quicker) -> Virulence.
If your Virulence is weak enough, there's only a 4 second span between when the Deep Wound hits, and the 3 conditions from Virulence wear off. That's at least 7 hits of Fragility in that short of a time. And if you choose not to shatter Phantom, they can't really stop you from pulling this off. Removing Phantom in any way still causes the Deep Wound. Removing one of the Virulence conditions still triggers the Fragility. The monk has to be familiar with the setup and recognize that it is being used in order to be effective against it. Otherwise, they are just wasting mana and time.
Fragility -> Phantom Pain -> (optional Shatter Delusions to get the Deep Wound quicker) -> Virulence.
If your Virulence is weak enough, there's only a 4 second span between when the Deep Wound hits, and the 3 conditions from Virulence wear off. That's at least 7 hits of Fragility in that short of a time. And if you choose not to shatter Phantom, they can't really stop you from pulling this off. Removing Phantom in any way still causes the Deep Wound. Removing one of the Virulence conditions still triggers the Fragility. The monk has to be familiar with the setup and recognize that it is being used in order to be effective against it. Otherwise, they are just wasting mana and time.
Siphon
so... from what i hear so far, domination magic isnt too effective?
OneArmedScissor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siphon
so... from what i hear so far, domination magic isnt too effective?
Domination is more associated with direct (spike) and indirect damage. While Illusion is more associated with DOT spells.
OneArmedScissor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganas
Clearly you aren't aware that "mega-awesome" is merely slang for "slight DOT with some spiking ability." Get with the times.
In all seriousness, the build is quite good for single target damage, possibly better than anything else out there. It can kill warrior flag runners before the first fragility runs out, and having a running ability is invaluable. With the cripple thrown in, any player who runs out of their monks healing range is as good as dead, and if not, they require constant monk attention, which, coupled with the weakness and cripple, is like shutting down two characters.
It also makes a great scout/flag runner, or a guild thief assasin.
BTW, if mass degen is your bag, mesmer is never the answer. Ranger, nec, or even warrior with ranger secondary do it much much better. You are not being an efficient team mate by only doing damage to one single target. A good player is able to effectively damage/piss off/annoy/shut down multiple targets. Empathy on Warriors, Backfire on casters, Spirit Shackles on Ranger, etc. etc. You've effectively shut down/annoy 3 targets right there.
In all seriousness, the build is quite good for single target damage, possibly better than anything else out there. It can kill warrior flag runners before the first fragility runs out, and having a running ability is invaluable. With the cripple thrown in, any player who runs out of their monks healing range is as good as dead, and if not, they require constant monk attention, which, coupled with the weakness and cripple, is like shutting down two characters.
It also makes a great scout/flag runner, or a guild thief assasin.
BTW, if mass degen is your bag, mesmer is never the answer. Ranger, nec, or even warrior with ranger secondary do it much much better. You are not being an efficient team mate by only doing damage to one single target. A good player is able to effectively damage/piss off/annoy/shut down multiple targets. Empathy on Warriors, Backfire on casters, Spirit Shackles on Ranger, etc. etc. You've effectively shut down/annoy 3 targets right there.
Siphon
im sorry but what does DOT mean?
and which attributes should i use then and how much into each?
also which skills are good?
and which attributes should i use then and how much into each?
also which skills are good?
Kaospryx
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
You are not being an efficient team mate by only doing damage to one single target. A good player is able to effectively damage/piss off/annoy/shut down multiple targets. Empathy on Warriors, Backfire on casters, Spirit Shackles on Ranger, etc. etc. You've effectively shut down/annoy 3 targets right there.
Right...for a domination and shutdown build. They are not talking about shutdown builds. That's like saying air eles suck because they don't cast fire spells.
DoT is Damage over time, such as bleeding, poison, disease, and burning.
DoT is Damage over time, such as bleeding, poison, disease, and burning.
Gerbill
I've got a Mesmer/Necromancer, currently I'm not using any Necromancer skills though.
I run a Domination/Inspiration build.
Although the spiking abilities of Illusion seems nice and all, it's just one side of the Mesmer in my opinion.
Seeing how it can spike and do slight DoT.. isn't that more the job of an Elementalist, they are better at it anyways.
In my opinion you use properly use your mesmer if you can shutdown a target, since that's what the profession is intended for (in my view anyway) I mean if you can shutdown a character then what does it matter what build the other has if he can't use it.
Domination has nice interrupts and if your fast casting is high enough you could go for the slower hexes like Empathy and Backfire, although you can expect them to be dissenchanted by either monks/mesmers or necromancers, although if the same character does it s)he often does it straight after, so u can use an interupt to stop their hex destroyers.
Inspiration magic can be nicely used to shutdown a character by denying him/her energy
I run a Domination/Inspiration build.
Although the spiking abilities of Illusion seems nice and all, it's just one side of the Mesmer in my opinion.
Seeing how it can spike and do slight DoT.. isn't that more the job of an Elementalist, they are better at it anyways.
In my opinion you use properly use your mesmer if you can shutdown a target, since that's what the profession is intended for (in my view anyway) I mean if you can shutdown a character then what does it matter what build the other has if he can't use it.
Domination has nice interrupts and if your fast casting is high enough you could go for the slower hexes like Empathy and Backfire, although you can expect them to be dissenchanted by either monks/mesmers or necromancers, although if the same character does it s)he often does it straight after, so u can use an interupt to stop their hex destroyers.
Inspiration magic can be nicely used to shutdown a character by denying him/her energy
Yukito Kunisaki
Remove Hex. Bam, your fragility build has been rendered useless.
Pile on hexes? Convert Hex. Bam, you've just healed your target.
I post this because nobody mentioned it. You should look for your own weaknesses before you start saying how awesome your build is.
Every build has a weakness. Mention it first and people won't have to post them.
If the person with fragility announces it and their monk is quick on the trigger, that fragility user is pretty much dead weight.
Pile on hexes? Convert Hex. Bam, you've just healed your target.
I post this because nobody mentioned it. You should look for your own weaknesses before you start saying how awesome your build is.
Every build has a weakness. Mention it first and people won't have to post them.
If the person with fragility announces it and their monk is quick on the trigger, that fragility user is pretty much dead weight.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbill
I've got a Mesmer/Necromancer, currently I'm not using any Necromancer skills though.
I run a Domination/Inspiration build.
Although the spiking abilities of Illusion seems nice and all, it's just one side of the Mesmer in my opinion.
Seeing how it can spike and do slight DoT.. isn't that more the job of an Elementalist, they are better at it anyways.
In my opinion you use properly use your mesmer if you can shutdown a target, since that's what the profession is intended for (in my view anyway) I mean if you can shutdown a character then what does it matter what build the other has if he can't use it.
Domination has nice interrupts and if your fast casting is high enough you could go for the slower hexes like Empathy and Backfire, although you can expect them to be dissenchanted by either monks/mesmers or necromancers, although if the same character does it s)he often does it straight after, so u can use an interupt to stop their hex destroyers.
Inspiration magic can be nicely used to shutdown a character by denying him/her energy Shut down a target. Yes, I think that's what the mesmer is perfectly capable of doing. For a mesmer to do any real damage, they have to avoid Nature's Renewal teams. [oh yeah, that's gonna be easy...]
Better yet, steal energy to hamper casters forcing them to use the meager 5 energy skills or so, then use the energy you stole to hamper non-casters via curses. An effective and efficient battle system.
I run a Domination/Inspiration build.
Although the spiking abilities of Illusion seems nice and all, it's just one side of the Mesmer in my opinion.
Seeing how it can spike and do slight DoT.. isn't that more the job of an Elementalist, they are better at it anyways.
In my opinion you use properly use your mesmer if you can shutdown a target, since that's what the profession is intended for (in my view anyway) I mean if you can shutdown a character then what does it matter what build the other has if he can't use it.
Domination has nice interrupts and if your fast casting is high enough you could go for the slower hexes like Empathy and Backfire, although you can expect them to be dissenchanted by either monks/mesmers or necromancers, although if the same character does it s)he often does it straight after, so u can use an interupt to stop their hex destroyers.
Inspiration magic can be nicely used to shutdown a character by denying him/her energy Shut down a target. Yes, I think that's what the mesmer is perfectly capable of doing. For a mesmer to do any real damage, they have to avoid Nature's Renewal teams. [oh yeah, that's gonna be easy...]
Better yet, steal energy to hamper casters forcing them to use the meager 5 energy skills or so, then use the energy you stole to hamper non-casters via curses. An effective and efficient battle system.
Morganas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Remove Hex. Bam, your fragility build has been rendered useless.
Pile on hexes? Convert Hex. Bam, you've just healed your target.
I post this because nobody mentioned it. You should look for your own weaknesses before you start saying how awesome your build is.
Every build has a weakness. Mention it first and people won't have to post them.
If the person with fragility announces it and their monk is quick on the trigger, that fragility user is pretty much dead weight. Duh the build has weaknesses. Knowing that is why I suggested targeting warriors instead of primary targets first, they rarely get hex's removed.
Pile on hexes? Convert Hex. Bam, you've just healed your target.
I post this because nobody mentioned it. You should look for your own weaknesses before you start saying how awesome your build is.
Every build has a weakness. Mention it first and people won't have to post them.
If the person with fragility announces it and their monk is quick on the trigger, that fragility user is pretty much dead weight. Duh the build has weaknesses. Knowing that is why I suggested targeting warriors instead of primary targets first, they rarely get hex's removed.
OneArmedScissor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaospryx
Right...for a domination and shutdown build. They are not talking about shutdown builds. That's like saying air eles suck because they don't cast fire spells.
DoT is Damage over time, such as bleeding, poison, disease, and burning. Even with DOT builds, one should be able to have around 5 degen on at least 2 targets.
"That's like saying air eles suck because they don't cast fire spells."
This is an absurd example/statement to pose. You can't compare elementalists to mesmers; simply put.
Last time I checked, air Elementalists coordinate together to kill a target in like 5 seconds. Last time I checked, Mesmers aren't exactly killing people in 5 seconds (unless you cast Backfire on some newb while he's spamming Flare.). Rather, they shut down, interrupt, etc. their targets. Elementalists are direct damage dealers while Mesmers are predominately indirect damage dealers. Consequently, one cannot compare these two classes when they play different roles and deal completely different damage.
DoT is Damage over time, such as bleeding, poison, disease, and burning. Even with DOT builds, one should be able to have around 5 degen on at least 2 targets.
"That's like saying air eles suck because they don't cast fire spells."
This is an absurd example/statement to pose. You can't compare elementalists to mesmers; simply put.
Last time I checked, air Elementalists coordinate together to kill a target in like 5 seconds. Last time I checked, Mesmers aren't exactly killing people in 5 seconds (unless you cast Backfire on some newb while he's spamming Flare.). Rather, they shut down, interrupt, etc. their targets. Elementalists are direct damage dealers while Mesmers are predominately indirect damage dealers. Consequently, one cannot compare these two classes when they play different roles and deal completely different damage.
OneArmedScissor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbill
I've got a Mesmer/Necromancer, currently I'm not using any Necromancer skills though.
I run a Domination/Inspiration build.
Although the spiking abilities of Illusion seems nice and all, it's just one side of the Mesmer in my opinion.
Seeing how it can spike and do slight DoT.. isn't that more the job of an Elementalist, they are better at it anyways.
In my opinion you use properly use your mesmer if you can shutdown a target, since that's what the profession is intended for (in my view anyway) I mean if you can shutdown a character then what does it matter what build the other has if he can't use it.
Domination has nice interrupts and if your fast casting is high enough you could go for the slower hexes like Empathy and Backfire, although you can expect them to be dissenchanted by either monks/mesmers or necromancers, although if the same character does it s)he often does it straight after, so u can use an interupt to stop their hex destroyers.
Inspiration magic can be nicely used to shutdown a character by denying him/her energy
Illusion magic is spike damage? What? Care to explain how illusion magic is eve some what close to what would be considered "spike" damage?
I run a Domination/Inspiration build.
Although the spiking abilities of Illusion seems nice and all, it's just one side of the Mesmer in my opinion.
Seeing how it can spike and do slight DoT.. isn't that more the job of an Elementalist, they are better at it anyways.
In my opinion you use properly use your mesmer if you can shutdown a target, since that's what the profession is intended for (in my view anyway) I mean if you can shutdown a character then what does it matter what build the other has if he can't use it.
Domination has nice interrupts and if your fast casting is high enough you could go for the slower hexes like Empathy and Backfire, although you can expect them to be dissenchanted by either monks/mesmers or necromancers, although if the same character does it s)he often does it straight after, so u can use an interupt to stop their hex destroyers.
Inspiration magic can be nicely used to shutdown a character by denying him/her energy
Illusion magic is spike damage? What? Care to explain how illusion magic is eve some what close to what would be considered "spike" damage?
Enigmatics
Fragility Mesmers kill targets in 10 or less seconds, and fragility is part of the Illusion Magic branch. Counting down and synchronizing air attacks has weaknesses; as do all builds. One well timed Nature's Renewal can end it all, and otherwise useless party combinations can obliterate your HoH winning pary. But that's the point of different build options.
OneArmedScissor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatics
Fragility Mesmers kill targets in 10 or less seconds, and fragility is part of the Illusion Magic branch. Counting down and synchronizing air attacks has weaknesses; as do all builds. One well timed Nature's Renewal can end it all, and otherwise useless party combinations can obliterate your HoH winning pary. But that's the point of different build options.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it was directed toward me. In that case, when did I ever say fragility builds were no good?
Every build has it's weaknesses and strengths. Hence why I am saying it is impairative that one finds the most effective and efficient build for whatever party one should decide to join. Finding a build that compliments most or all members of your team is crucial if your team is ever going to make any progress.
With Fragility builds, I find it more effective if a Mesmer, Warrior, and Ranger are able to coordinate their attacks on a specific foe. Considering most Warriors attacks are conditionally based (sever the artery{bleeding}, dismember{deep wound}, etc.): same goes with ranger. Now imagine a Mesmer casting Fragility, PP, etc. in conjunction with the Warrior and Ranger attacking with condition attacks. This can be quite devistating.
Every build has it's weaknesses and strengths. Hence why I am saying it is impairative that one finds the most effective and efficient build for whatever party one should decide to join. Finding a build that compliments most or all members of your team is crucial if your team is ever going to make any progress.
With Fragility builds, I find it more effective if a Mesmer, Warrior, and Ranger are able to coordinate their attacks on a specific foe. Considering most Warriors attacks are conditionally based (sever the artery{bleeding}, dismember{deep wound}, etc.): same goes with ranger. Now imagine a Mesmer casting Fragility, PP, etc. in conjunction with the Warrior and Ranger attacking with condition attacks. This can be quite devistating.
Gerbill
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
Illusion magic is spike damage? What? Care to explain how illusion magic is eve some what close to what would be considered "spike" damage?
Sorry was meant to say DoT.
Enigmatics
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it was directed toward me. In that case, when did I ever say fragility builds were no good?
Every build has it's weaknesses and strengths. Hence why I am saying it is impairative that one finds the most effective and efficient build for whatever party one should decide to join. Finding a build that compliments most or all members of your team is crucial if your team is ever going to make any progress.
With Fragility builds, I find it more effective if a Mesmer, Warrior, and Ranger are able to coordinate their attacks on a specific foe. Considering most Warriors attacks are conditionally based (sever the artery{bleeding}, dismember{deep wound}, etc.): same goes with ranger. Now imagine a Mesmer casting Fragility, PP, etc. in conjunction with the Warrior and Ranger attacking with condition attacks. This can be quite devistating. You may be right; I've only done pick up games with the M/Ne Virulence build, and exterior help with conditions isn't to be expected.
Every build has it's weaknesses and strengths. Hence why I am saying it is impairative that one finds the most effective and efficient build for whatever party one should decide to join. Finding a build that compliments most or all members of your team is crucial if your team is ever going to make any progress.
With Fragility builds, I find it more effective if a Mesmer, Warrior, and Ranger are able to coordinate their attacks on a specific foe. Considering most Warriors attacks are conditionally based (sever the artery{bleeding}, dismember{deep wound}, etc.): same goes with ranger. Now imagine a Mesmer casting Fragility, PP, etc. in conjunction with the Warrior and Ranger attacking with condition attacks. This can be quite devistating. You may be right; I've only done pick up games with the M/Ne Virulence build, and exterior help with conditions isn't to be expected.