Arena.Net and PvP

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonJLore
Yup, same here. I agree that faster unlocks will benefit the casual player and therefore strengthen the community at large. It would behoove ANet to implement such changes. Someone in this thread gave some statistics regarding the number of players (about 400,000) and while that is a solid number my guess is that it allowed ANet to break even financially - nothing more. Remembering that there is no monthly charge to enhance revenues. The "gravey" will come IF they do well in the expansion AND/OR if they can pull gamers away from Blizzard and the like. I think they're doing okay right now but the pressure will become even more pronounced if the numbers fall.
For the sake of the discussion though, does it really keep players playing? I mean if part of thier time is spent unlocking skills, and the other part is PvP then wont they end up burning out from PvP sooner? PvP should be fun at any level, no?

I'm not a big PvP'r and I'm not trolling I'm just throwing it out there.

JasonJLore

Core Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
For the sake of the discussion though, does it really keep players playing? I mean if part of thier time is spent unlocking skills, and the other part is PvP then wont they end up burning out from PvP sooner? PvP should be fun at any level, no?
Good point. But the situation for ANet (and the rest of us who are currently playing) is this, will the same aforementioned 400,000 still be playing in say 6 months? If that number drops - alot, that's bad for all of us. Better I think to bring in new players and keep the population rising. The way to do that is to make the game more accessible to the casual gamer. PvP will always remain challenging no matter how many skills you pick up. As for the fun factor, well, that's ANet's responsibility not ours.

Sanji

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

In my opinion, th PvP unlock system has in all ways failed in providing artificial replay value. It provides no benefit to the players that are most likely to be the most successful in it (Dedicated PvE players) while being needlessly time consuming for the players that who would most need the unlocks. (Dedicated PvP Players)

At this point, unlocking through PvE and unlocking through Faction just isn't enough to get casual player's feet wet unless they have a very clear idea of what they want to play. There are benefits to playing the same build, of course, but it gets boring and obviously your Guild or Tomb groups might need you to play different things.

In response to requests for UAS or the occasional "Unlocks need to be quicker", I see a lot of "Well, you just want everything handed to you on a Silver Platter, blah blah, this is an RPG YA GOT TO EARN YO KEEP 'ROUND 'ERE BOY."

The only thing I want "handed" to me is less stagnant builds/metagame and my Guild mates being able to be flexible without playing over 200 or so hours and the ability to honestly recommend this game to people for it's PvP. I qouldn't go so far as to say ArenaNet lied to us, but they certainly did miss the mark in the whole Guild Wars is the Anti-MMO and that it offers Pick up and Play PvP. The current premades just don't cut it.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji
that it offers Pick up and Play PvP. The current premades just don't cut it.
not a flame just a different opinion please.

no the premades will not make it in the top (or medium) levels of competition but in the casual arenas against others of the same type (honestly casual players) they will do fine (refer to Stumpys pvp noob brother) unless some jerk who was run to get Drok armor and a max weapon drops in for some stomp their beginners fun

remember Anet never claimed you could compete at the top levels at the start just that you could be competitive

hopes for only minor flames

Sanji

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

The premades are pretty outdated builds that are terrible introductions to what the different Profession's role in PvP are.

My main beef is that the skill unlock is poorly balanced, incentive-wise. It's obviously good to have skills, but they shouldn't be nearly as time consuming to get as they are. MMO's and Dungeon Hack games like Diablo 2 are better in keeping you motivated because you are constantly obtaining new stats, powers, and gear.

Guild Wars has a cap on most things and is pretty much it's rewards break down in giving you options. Even then, these options have a lot of trade offs involved in them (You only get one Elite, Runes better than Minor incur Health Penalties, etc etc) that is frankly rather overwhelming to the uniformed casual player.

I wouldn't say that premades are deforming the enivornment, but they definately give players the wrong impressions and it isn't helped that so many skills are buried too deep inside the game along with Rune/Component unlocks being hinged on you playing abnormally to achieved a solid selection.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji
I wouldn't say that premades are deforming the enivornment, but they definately give players the wrong impressions and it isn't helped that so many skills are buried too deep inside the game along with Rune/Component unlocks being hinged on you playing abnormally to achieved a solid selection.
what would you think of simply getting fresh templates added to the existing ones for more choices as a help?

EDIT

how about an official Anet contest with the 3 best new builds for each primary profession being added and the worst old build being removed?

rince every 3 months

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonJLore
Good point. But the situation for ANet (and the rest of us who are currently playing) is this, will the same aforementioned 400,000 still be playing in say 6 months? If that number drops - alot, that's bad for all of us. Better I think to bring in new players and keep the population rising. The way to do that is to make the game more accessible to the casual gamer. PvP will always remain challenging no matter how many skills you pick up. As for the fun factor, well, that's ANet's responsibility not ours.
That is true, it is a good point. Although from my experience, keeping the numbers up is more important with a monthly charge MMORPG because of the infrastructure upkeep. Anet has to keep people buying the game, (which includes pve fans) as well as keeping everyone ( the pvp,pve, and people who like both) interested in buying the expansion pack.

Unfortunately, whether people like it or not I think the whole carrot on the stick theory keeps many people coming back...maybe not everyone.

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
what would you think of simply getting fresh templates added to the existing ones for more choices as a help?

EDIT

how about an official Anet contest with the 3 best new builds for each primary profession being added and the worst old build being removed?

rince every 3 months
The thing is having a build is highly dependent on

A) putting something together that you enjoy using
B) knowing precisely how the build works (which would have been a result of you putting it together)

premades don't really satisfy one of best parts of GW at all, which is build making, and build making can't work with a locked skill system.

If they do anything else with premades I'd rather it's a system that let's you buy skills you don't have unlocked with faction, just for that build, rather than more templates.

edit: or even better one that lets you do it for free, or at least a couple skills.

the lock as it is kills the whole build making fun of the game... who wants to use something made entirely to someone else's preference in a game where you shouldn't have to?

Sanji

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
what would you think of simply getting fresh templates added to the existing ones for more choices as a help?

EDIT

how about an official Anet contest with the 3 best new builds for each primary profession being added and the worst old build being removed?

rince every 3 months
Replacing War/Mo with Spirit Spam Ranger, Air Elementalist Spiker, and so on isn't going to help with the stagnanting PvP environment.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
To start with, I'd like to apologise for the "vocal minority" comment I made at TGH ... it was a poor choice of words and not reflective of what I intended. With that said, let's move on:

We're testing a variety of adjustments to the game currently, in addition to working on getting Sorrow's Furnace ready for release. Furnace is going to be great for those who enjoy a bit of PvE. For the PvP players out there, however, we're also testing a range of changes targeted at addressing some of the feedback we've been provided by both testers and players on the fan forums.

We're testing skill balance adjustments. We're testing accelerated means of character and account advancement for both RP and PvP characters. When we introduced Faction, we introduced an adjustable framework. Our initial goal was for Faction to be able to advance a PvP character at a roughly similar rate as an RP character. This gave you a choice for character advancement. Now we're committed to improving the rate of advancement for all characters, regardless of whether they are an RP or PvP character.

You've asked for it, and we're going to make changes. I know there's many of you who feel that it's taking too long. I just want to reassure you all that we're making progress towards what you want. It's progress that will bring improvements for all players who want to PvP, and that's why it's taking a little time.
What did Alex mean by improving charactor advancemant in all charactor?