Whats with all the necro hate?

Every time i go to a forum i see at least one person slam on necros. they say that soul reaping is crap, necros cant deal damage, and all they are good for is supporting energy and wells. I read the occasional other thread that talks about how necros can be really good if you have the skill to make one. so im hearing two different things that lead to the same conclusion.
it seems to me that people think necros stink because they do not have enough skill to use them. if you think necros are only good for wells and minions then you obvuoisly dont know jack about necromancers.

necros pwn my soul. in pve i love kiling one guy and putriding the hell outta the others. and i dont run out of energy because all of them die. in pvp, putrid explosion + edge of extinction = SO MUCH FUN! i love seeing them drop like flies. its a little harder to play a necro in pvp but then again, some find it easy. necros are good assets to a good team

I think necro powers change over the course of gameplay. In early game, Blood/Death necros are perfect. Once you get into higher levels, even with 16 death magic, Horrors/minions/ect. aren't strong enough to really live long in combat, especcially with those Titans in the last mission, let alone UW or the Fissure. Late game/compititions/PvP, I think Blood/Curse necros are much better. Right now I use a Curse necro, and every spell complements on another. Here's my build:

(B)Blood Magic: 11 (12 with rune)
(D)Death: 1 (rune)
(C)Curses: 16 (12 + scar + superior)
Soul Reap: 5 (6 with rune)
+ Major Vigor to help offset that superior

Insidous Parasite (C): 21 seconds, when target foe attacks, you gain 21 health.
Strip Enchantment (B): Stip an enchantment off a foe, gain 102 health.
Spiteful Spirit(C): 21 seconds, when target attack/uses a skill, it deals 37 shadow damage to foe and all ajacent foes. (Great for frenzied warriors, and with Parasite)
Life Siphon (B): 22 seconds, foe has -3 health, you have +3 (Slap this on 4+ people for +10 health max at once).
Rez Sig: Rez party member.
Enfeebling Blood (C): Sacrifice 17% max health. Target/nearby foes suffer Weakness for 21 seconds (Greatly reduces attack damage).
Feintheartedness (C): 37 seconds, target foe attacks 50% slower and has -3 health.
Shadow of Fear (C): Target/adjacent foes attack 50% slower for 46 seconds.

As you can see, theres health degen for the enemy, with plenty of life regen for yourself, while reducing their attack damage and how fast they attack. Also, with turning their attacks against them, I've yet to make up a better build then this one for myself . If a person wants to say necro's suck, then they haven't been hexed by one yet. I think they're awesome in the right hands. Just needs a little tweeking and thought before they can kick ass, as can any other profession with thought going into them.

Edit: Forgot to add this...All those spells only use 10 energy, minus Insideous and Spiteful. Makes perfect. If you really need extra energy, add Well of Power, or if you really want, consume corpse.

As to the actual reasons for some people not liking Necromancers .. it's been covered in many previous threads, try a search if you haven't already. But to summarize:

Soul Reaping, while great in PvE where lots of deaths occur, it's use is very questionable in PvP especially arenas.

This means that taking a necromancer primary is often frowned upon in PvP unless you have crazy build.

every one hates necro becuase good is better then evil thats why there are more monks

necromancers = evil

monks = good

and here i was thinking they were both on the same side...thanks for clearing that up for me

Necros are great, Warriors are great, Elementalists are great, Monks are great, Rangers are great and yep, Mesmers are great. People seem to forget that actually the professions are very well balanced and each has the possibility to be as good as the next. It all depends on the skills you take and the way in which you use them. But alot of children play this game and they tend to simplify things...I R NUKER I PWN ALL etc etc

If you are having trouble finding PUGs as a Necro, I know I did at times when I played mine, and I do now with my Ranger (tho with my Monk or Ele I am snapped up straight away!), start your own

You know how good you are and when the rest of your team die and you're left standing they'll see it too

C
Xxx

I don't hate them.. Not at all. But in many stratagys a Necromancer simply isn't needed.

Necromancers are my second-favourite class. Their assorted hexes are every bit as irritating as Mesmer skills, their minions can often be more effective than Ranger pets simply because of how many of them there are (and the fact you don't get punished for their death), they can deal decent amounts of damage, heal themselves whilst hurting others, heal their team, and even help people with their energy management.

Having Necromancer as a secondary class for PvP is all well and good, but it really depends on what your primary class is. If you're a Monk, you're going to be targeted early on by half of the enemies, and called upon to heal -- you just won't have time to use most of the Necromancer skills. If you're a Warrior, you simply don't have the energy required to be as effective as a primary Necromancer. Elementalists are usually called upon for nuking duties. Rangers don't really need a secondary class, either for PvP or PvE. And Mesmers are so busy looking for interrupt opportunities and generally annoying the enemy to bother too often with necromancer skills.

To put it simply, thus far I have never seen anybody taking full advantage of the wide range of highly effective Necromancer skills when Necromancy is only their secondary profession -- you are, after all, typically motivated to use your primary class primarily, hence why you chose it. The best Necromancer, as with the other classes really, is the one who is 100% dedicated to his/her skills, and those Necromancers are extremely potent foes indeed. While I tend to agree that Soul Reaping isn't the best attribute in the game, even in PvP it has its uses, and in PvE it can be very useful.

You know, historically, it was usually priests and monks taking up the practice of necromancy in the first place, as they were often the only people educated enough to understand it. And so far as I'm aware, 'proper' necromancy has little to do with raising the dead as your minions and suchlike...

Hi all,

I love teaming up with necros. They are a fantastic addition to a team and I think they really work well with my elemental mesmer. I would rather go on a quest with them than most other players.

Although appropriate their dancing needs some work. Although it is not as bad as the male warrior.

Bye for now.

Jazzy

I rather like the female Necromancer's dance. Though I am generally drawn to clinically insane women, so it's to be expected.

The male Necromancer just dances like a maniac. Makes me chuckle...

Ì actually find the warrior necro to be a good combo.

I have 12 in axe mastery, 10 in strength, 8 in blood and 3 in death magic.

The result is that while in close combat with my chaos axe, I'm ripping the enemies to shreds while taking quite a chunk of damage myself, maybe one or two blood magic skills later, I'm back at full HP ripping the enemies limb from limb once again.

For all those necro's out there who are finding it hard to find a guild to take you, look up the Knights of the Necrotyr, all of my officers (except one) have either primary or secondary necro, and half the members are either primary necro or secondary necro...

Several necros working together can make the ultimate pwnage team, when one of my officers (chris forskin Lvl 17 W/N) and I (Chris Nightbringer Lvl 18 W/N) work together, all we need is aleisa the healer and we find that no challenge is too great.

NECROS RULE!!!!!

I've read this same thing too many times to not post on it at least once. Most nubs will think a necro isn't that good because they don't know how to use the skills properly, but there are also the good players out there who actually make a great argument against being a necro primary. In PvP, unless, like Shamblemonkee said, you have an excellent build that will garauntee a lot of deaths, i.e. minions/spirits etc. Otherwise, it's pretty much always better to take the other class you were planning to use as your primary. Assuming the other class is also a spell-caster, theres pretty much no advantage to making a spell casting (as in, not a warrior or ranger who dabbles in necromancy) necro with a warrior or ranger primary. Monk is a little iffy as well, if you're planning on only using smiting prayers to further stop the healing that you slowed with curses, and not planning on casting your monk spells on allies. Almost all the time it's much better to either have more energy or be able to cast your spells faster than it is to get energy everytime someone finally goes down.

Plus, the curses and to a lesser extent blood magic lines really shine at the 8-10 attribute levels, and a lot of times you wont get much more help by having any more points in them. (Again, this is just generally, a few builds may call for more)

Keep in mind, this is PvP I'm talking about, soul reaping + minions is great in PvE.

I'm new to this game, but I really like the way Necros work,
Using a N/Mo is what I do, because after using blood magic you can rehealth yourself
if needed.

I didn't choose Necromancers because people said "they have cool spells." Or "They're really good at the start of the game." Or anything.

I chose Necromancers because I liked them.

I'f I heard Monks were the best characters too use I wouldn't go and make one
because other people said that, make the type you like best and enjoy the game!

I just captured feast of corruption.

Best. Skill. Ever. I absolutely love curses, I weaken an enemy deal some nice AoE with feast and deathly swarm, then putrid each one slowly.

Necros are cool because they are metalheads, metal is cool therefore necromancers are cool.

- I don't see any other class being able to do this:

im a necro ranger, only level 3 atm i find em gd

i love my necro the curses line is definatelly worth it for debuffing the enemy to scrap i tend to use mark of pain, enfeebling blood, shadow of fear some parasite hex ( cant remember name) and weaken armor for those annoying thick armoured monsters

i hated them, they looked like retards, walked thinking they were all tough untill i did a mission with one and now i respect them entirely

Never underestimate the might of several well of sufferings in close proximity... ^^

Necromancer is by far my favorite class. I've played necromancer more than any other class and am short by two skills from having all the necro skills unlocked. I don't think there is any class that is more versatile than the necro. They are capable of hexes, heavy spike damage (in fact one of my builds has some of the most dps you can have, period), heavy degen skills, heal self skills, minion raising capabilites, and a ton of support skills (wells, teammate energy boosts, and condition spreading and removal). So if someone says that it is hard to find a spot for a necromancer in a group has clearly never played one.

I have not ever had a problem finding a group in PvP. But most of the time it it because I state what my build is designed as when asking for a group. Say out loud whether you build is a shutdown, spike, hex, etc. build. Because Necro's are so versatile, that mere fact can work against you when looking for a group. When a group is looking for an addition to their group, a lot of times they want a certain role filled. If you say that you are a "N/E LFG", you will probably be ignored by most groups because a 'N/E' can be a lot of things. If a group is looking for a hex'er, then state that you are a hex based necro and chances are you will get a lot more offers.

Most people don't realize how good a support class a blood necro can be.


Melee/Ranger Attack Bonus -
BUFFS; Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire, Dark Fury
DEBUFFS; Barbs, Weaken Armor, Rigor Mortis, Mark of Pain

Defence Bonus -
BUFFS; Well of Power (Energy and Health), Well of Blood (Health), Blood is Power (Energy), Blood Ritual (Energy), Order of the Vampire (Health), Tainted Flesh.
DEBUFFS; Faintheartedness, Enfeeble, Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, Price of Failure

i have taken my necro into PvP many times, i rarely change my attribute points when i do this as well. this means i will have anywhere from 5-9 soul reaping. things in PvP die about relatively slow, however, if my PvP build is all about cursing then all i have to put in is blood and soul reaping. its acutally very helpful. the only build i have that doesnt use my soul reaping is my soul leach backfire build. i use those 2 and many other anti monk hexes for an almost instant kill if they cast. even if its remove hex.

yeah, i understand that. most teams like to stick with a simple warrior/monk/ele combo. monks heal tanks while eles deal damage. same with in pvp, a many of those groups dont have room for a necro. ive also heard of a few strategies that need a powerful necro. the main one i like is the pain combo. the team uses 5:1 vampiric with skills that hit multiple targets while a necromancer spams order of pain and order of vampire. thats a good 31 bas damage for each physical attack. 13 from order of pain, 13 stolen from order of vampire, and 5 from vampiric. you get 5 rangers with barrage and youve got a pretty nasty firing squad.

soul reaping + minions is always fun!
anywho, you kinda have to realize that cursing is about making it easier for your team to kill things. well, you could aslo archane echo feast of corruption and deal about 250 damage in 2-3 seconds with 10 second recharge (i think thats the recharge) but necros have alot of haxes that mess with the enemy (like mesmers do) there are ways a necro could get some serious kills, but i would figure that if you sick the necro on the monk then the monk cant heal. thus the rest of the party will go down faster.

"Evil will always win because Good is dumb"

Dark Helmut in Space Balls.

I just hate them becaue they are from the debil!

And what's up with being a Nec/Mo? Talk about a total contradiction in culture, sheesh...

Necromancy was originally a spiritual Magick practiced by those that felt more comfortable with the dead then the living.

I don't get it. Your wording makes it seem like you're disagreeing with me, but what you're actually saying doesn't disagree at all with what I said.

I'm not saying don't use curses, curses are great. I'm saying don't use soul reaping. Bring energy storage or fast casting instead; for curses especially you don't need more than 10 or so points in it so you don't even need the rune. Use the same set of skills you were planning to use with your necro primary and just make him a necro secondary.

My Necro/Mes is Blood/Dominmatix.
Wells and a high heeled boot.
No minions needed.
The boys ask for her, even when Im playing my W/R or Monk

as mentioned be4 da reason 4 their been more monks in da game is bcause monks can heal and have the ability to reserect people an are more needed in battle > my elementalist would kick all monks butts 2 where they belong

my e/r would kick all ya butts

Nobody has yet mentioned the N/Mo as the greatest support healer, that is they support the monks while the monks take care of the rest of the team. Plenty of creativity there for other team dmg since you only need a handful of spells to really support your monks (high protection).

Yeah, you can absolutely own necros with blood + curses (although I'm curses + death)

>Malaise -2 energy degen
>Wither -2 energy degen // Feast Of Corruption (Basic Damage) // Lingering Curse (Probably the best one to go with, target loses all enchantments and only gets half the benefit from healing)
>Strip Enchantment
>Soul Barbs (This should be cast first so you deal more damage with each hex)

There are more things like this, but these are the few I like.

the problem with that is the runes, youll only be able to get your curses so powerful and last so long.

whatever helps you sleep at night.

I am in total agreement here. This is my same build and it was really fun for PvE. I can understand the argument that Soul Reaping is not as useful in PvP, but for PvE it's very helpful. My necro was my second character and I had a far easier time than with my elementalist.

So in short, what everyone else said. People who think necros are useless need to dig a little deeper. The classes all have their place in a party. And necromancers have personality to spare!

Okay, something I can try to argue against.

The difference in times between 9 and 14 (or even 16) Atrribute Level is usually not worth both the extra attributes and not having access to a good PvP primary attribute.

Lingering Curse for example (while arguably not the best elite choice for a debuff build, but still) lasts for ~15 seconds at level 9-10, and only 18 at 12, and ~20 at level 14. However, it also costs 25 energy to cast. This leaves a Necro primary with only 15 energy left for the next curse, but an Ele primary will still have at least 40.

Weaken armor is a slightly worse example, but still fits. At 9-10 it lasts for right around 25 seconds, and still does the full -20 of armor loss. At 12 it lasts for 34, which given it's 30 second recharge time is a nice way to have it up all the time. However, at higher levels of PvP the monks involved will be, or at least should be, removing hexes from people. Having it at 26 seconds lets it last for a while anyway, but it won't be nearly as wasted if it gets removed. While the energy cost for this skill isn't very high, the casting time is for it being a hex. So, if you're planning on bringing mesmer skills as well, fast casting will be much more of a help than soul reaping.


The bottom line IMO is that you're much better off with your curses at level 9 and getting 49 extra attribute points (which is enough to pump something up to level 9 on it's own) than getting the extra 3 levels to get it at 12 naturally. You're also much better off going with the other profession as your primary and using the runes on all of the skills you're bringing from that profession as well as getting a primary attribute thats usefull in PvP. The only way I would even consider being a primary necro is if I was planning on only using necromancer skills of all 8 slots, and even then I would most likely go with an Ele primary just for the energy storage, probably Death at 12, blood or curses at 10 and energy storage at 11(9+gem+minor rune), or maybe even 12-9-12 in the same order.


Remember, I'm certainly not saying necros suck, one of my favorite chars to play uses necro skills in most of the skill bar. But it's an Ele/Nec, because there are few cases where a necro primary is worth it in PvP.



Edit:
This is a tough one. If you're a necro/monk all you get is a little extra time on the Blood Ritual or an extra energy pip on Blood is Power But, you also don't become the focus of fire untill after the other monks are dead, which shouldn't happen if you're there. But, if you take the monk primary (be a Mo/N) you loe practically nothing from your attributes and you gain divine favor and the ability to pump up your protection magic even higher. But, everyone will see you as a monk and might go after you instead of the other guys. However, if the other monks are doing their job and you're doing yours, you should be fine, so this is usually the better choice.

I'm now working with a W/N.. It works quite well, weakening enemies whilst killing them verociously (sp?).. Nothing wrong with em

ive done necro in pvp, the best build i have found is N/Me, they have so many similar skills. for instance, if you wanted to take out a warrior quick.
empathy
insideous parasite
spiteful spirit
done right this will do +100 dmg to the warrior whenever they hit. with anti caster me/n would be a bit better, however you can still pull off a great anti monk with n/me by simply removing all enchantments by using lingering curse, then cast a few intterupts and watch them take it in the mouth.

Only one thing I don't like about necromancers is that I find my warrior often gets stuck in place if surrounded by too many of the necro's minions.

I don't mind you necros - but can you do something about the posture? Some physical therapy might help.