I lost my previous post due to stupid database error rehashing repeatedly
Here are two different hammer w/X's I"ve been thinking of implementing on my W/N pve
stats: 10+2 hammer, 10+1 str, 11 earth
goal: pvp knockdown
Devastating Hammer {E}
Crushing Blow
Heavy Blow
Irresistable Blow
Bull Strike
Rush
Aftershock
Res Signet
W/Mo
stats: 10+2 hammer, 9+1 strength, 10 smite, 7 healing
goal: pvp holy striker
Devastating Hammer {E}
Crushing Blow
Heavy Blow
Irresistable Blow
Rush
Holy Strike
Smite Hex
Restore Life
Both are susceptible to conditions to a degree, but the W/Mo should be able to resist hexes. The problem I see in implementation are energy reserves. Anything I can do to save them? ^_^ [skill based, not gear based]
trying again
Yukito Kunisaki
Enigmatics
Not really; hammers' incredibly slow attack speed won't really put Zealous upgrades at popularity. I'll just say that W/E with aftershock double as great PvPers, and they're rather useless in PvE. Oh, and if you havn't been able to fit in Strength of Honor or Judge's Insight, you might want to consider adding one.
Yukito Kunisaki
Speaking of which, here's my pve build! [note, I was gonna post this too but the database errors were ripping me a new one...]
W/E Mass murderer
goal: massive tank for pve
stats: 10+2 hammer, 10+1 strength, 11 earth
Earth Shaker {E}
Crude Swing
Belly Smash
Irresistable Blow
For Great Justice!
Dolyak Signet
Aftershock
Armor of Earth
The Armor + Dolyak combo will give you 150+ armor total and the best part, you can keep it up almost indefinitely since Dolyak's recycle time and duration are only 3s. apart. Beware enchantment strip. In mixed mobs of ranged and melee, this build can't do as well for the crazy reason that Crude Swing is interruptible. [with Earth Shaker, I can imagine why it HAD to be nerfed that much.]
Belly Smash is great for when you've already done Aftershock and are waiting for it to recycle. 9s. blind, 10s. aftershock recycle, good timing there ^_^
A monk should have no trouble keeping you alive. We hope. Again, energy seems to be the issue with this build as well.
W/E Mass murderer
goal: massive tank for pve
stats: 10+2 hammer, 10+1 strength, 11 earth
Earth Shaker {E}
Crude Swing
Belly Smash
Irresistable Blow
For Great Justice!
Dolyak Signet
Aftershock
Armor of Earth
The Armor + Dolyak combo will give you 150+ armor total and the best part, you can keep it up almost indefinitely since Dolyak's recycle time and duration are only 3s. apart. Beware enchantment strip. In mixed mobs of ranged and melee, this build can't do as well for the crazy reason that Crude Swing is interruptible. [with Earth Shaker, I can imagine why it HAD to be nerfed that much.]
Belly Smash is great for when you've already done Aftershock and are waiting for it to recycle. 9s. blind, 10s. aftershock recycle, good timing there ^_^
A monk should have no trouble keeping you alive. We hope. Again, energy seems to be the issue with this build as well.
Yukito Kunisaki
Ok, just switched now to a W/Mo, gained the skills, and tried it.
I must say, I LOVE IT!!! It does very good dmg and it ignores armor and what's more, it's a LOT more energy friendly than a W/E Aftershock type! In some instances [vs. rangers] it does more dmg than Aftershock will ever deal...
W/Mo PvP Smiting Hammer Warrior!
stats: 10+2 hammer, 9+1 strength, 10 smiting, 7 healing prayers
Devastating Hammer {E}
Crushing Blow
Heavy Blow
Irresistable Blow
Rush
Smite Hex
Holy Strike
Restore Life
This is a very energy friendly build because at first I thought holy strike was 10 when it's actually 5 [thank goodness]. I don't know why people in team and random arena do it but when I rush [I like rushing, sue me] they clobber me with a hex, I stand right in between them (they must think it's good to surround and pound me) then BLAM, Smite Hex for 180 dmg total! [for 5 energy, it's VERY efficient] Rush can be built up by chasing a runner using a wand. Then run in and start the pain. I was thinking of using Bull Strike but for some reason, people just don't run enough...
Irresistable Blow vs. a stance user followed by Holy Strike is GAWDLIKE... 10 energy for 94 dmg that ignores armor is hot stuff. Especially considering this to be a W/Mo. Or for kicks, Irresistable Blow, Crushing Blow, Holy Strike. Expensive, and the Crushing may be blocked while on the ground. [which doesn't make sense, why be able to dodge / block when you're on your back?!]
Standard combo: Devastating, Crushing, Heavy Blow, Holy Strike. Reduces most warrior's to half their hp and casters either dead, or almost dead. Irresistable blow while they try to run and escape from your torment results in a 100+ dmg critical that pretty much kills them...
I must say, I LOVE IT!!! It does very good dmg and it ignores armor and what's more, it's a LOT more energy friendly than a W/E Aftershock type! In some instances [vs. rangers] it does more dmg than Aftershock will ever deal...
W/Mo PvP Smiting Hammer Warrior!
stats: 10+2 hammer, 9+1 strength, 10 smiting, 7 healing prayers
Devastating Hammer {E}
Crushing Blow
Heavy Blow
Irresistable Blow
Rush
Smite Hex
Holy Strike
Restore Life
This is a very energy friendly build because at first I thought holy strike was 10 when it's actually 5 [thank goodness]. I don't know why people in team and random arena do it but when I rush [I like rushing, sue me] they clobber me with a hex, I stand right in between them (they must think it's good to surround and pound me) then BLAM, Smite Hex for 180 dmg total! [for 5 energy, it's VERY efficient] Rush can be built up by chasing a runner using a wand. Then run in and start the pain. I was thinking of using Bull Strike but for some reason, people just don't run enough...
Irresistable Blow vs. a stance user followed by Holy Strike is GAWDLIKE... 10 energy for 94 dmg that ignores armor is hot stuff. Especially considering this to be a W/Mo. Or for kicks, Irresistable Blow, Crushing Blow, Holy Strike. Expensive, and the Crushing may be blocked while on the ground. [which doesn't make sense, why be able to dodge / block when you're on your back?!]
Standard combo: Devastating, Crushing, Heavy Blow, Holy Strike. Reduces most warrior's to half their hp and casters either dead, or almost dead. Irresistable blow while they try to run and escape from your torment results in a 100+ dmg critical that pretty much kills them...
anti_z3r0
Get rid of Rush please.
Sprint >>> Rush
Sprint >>> Rush
Meimei
1. What u gonna do if you get Blind full time? that's #1 warrior killer. I dont want to hear "Monks will cure my blind" cause that rarely happens
2. What u gonna do if your target is full of enchancements? Some Nasty monks got insane enchancements and you are not even hurting them if you dont remove their enchancements. I dont want to hear "Necros will remove them for me" that also rarely happens.
"Get rid of Rush please.
Sprint >>> Rush"
and Rush >>> Sprint if you do it correctly
2. What u gonna do if your target is full of enchancements? Some Nasty monks got insane enchancements and you are not even hurting them if you dont remove their enchancements. I dont want to hear "Necros will remove them for me" that also rarely happens.
"Get rid of Rush please.
Sprint >>> Rush"
and Rush >>> Sprint if you do it correctly
UberRusty
Quote:
1. What u gonna do if you get Blind full time? that's #1 warrior killer. I dont want to hear "Monks will cure my blind" cause that rarely happens
Quote:
ROFL! Good post. |
2. What u gonna do if your target is full of enchancements? Some Nasty monks got insane enchancements and you are not even hurting them if you dont remove their enchancements. I dont want to hear "Necros will remove them for me" that also rarely happens.
You must've been in some crappy teams then. This time around, nothing you can do if the target is full of enchantments if you have no enchant stripping abilities. Switch targets if you're smart. Now, my turn. What if you're facing against a Protective Bond Monk with 105 health and you're the only one alive on your team? OH NOES WAT R U GOING TO DO LOLOLOLOL Jake
W/E has nothing they can do about blind, you have to rely on your monk or draw conditions e/mo or something like that for that. Only Plague touch warriors should give a shit about taking care of blind honestly, unless you're just random arenaing it then ok.. you can bring antidote signet/mend ailment or something stupid like that.
Strength of Honor is pretty worthless on a hammer user imo for the same reason zealous hilts aren't that great for them. Irresistable blow is great on prot monks, griffon's sweep really needs to be buffed to be comparable to irresistable blow but for evasion, it was way overnerfed. Using rush with a wand instead of sprint sounds interesting though.. I should try that out. Jake
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRusty
What if you're facing against a Protective Bond Monk with 105 health and you're the only one alive on your team? OH NOES WAT R U GOING TO DO LOLOLOLOL
His damage is pbaoe only so since you aren't gonna have enchantment removal you can just run around and make it a stalemate since he can't do shit to you, especially with sprint. Make him leave
Yukito Kunisaki
Yep, Rush can be kept up forever unlike sprint which eats your energy. Can't build adrenaline you say?
That's cause... YOU SUCK!!!!! Whoever said that you have to hit an enemy in melee to build up adrenaline for ANY speed buff warrior skills is obviously one-track minded... If the enemy decides to 'play smart' and then he runs around behind winding tunnels and cover, then just head them off, if you are the only one alive and the enemy's res sig is used, Restore Life ftw...
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
His damage is pbaoe only so since you aren't gonna have enchantment removal you can just run around and make it a stalemate since he can't do shit to you, especially with sprint. Make him leave
Every build has its weakness. Though I think the W/N has the most strengths and the least weaknesses regarding who to fight. Weaken armor causes more dmg and Rend utterly destroys certain monks. Plague Touch is the default for w/n, no questions asked. Seems to me that ONLY hexes are the key to shutting down a w/n.
Enigmatics
Maybe in non-PUGs, but W/N in arenas can't outlast W/Mo; plague touch and rend enchantments won't keep your health up.
Winterclaw
Yukito, if you still care about that first build you mentioned, I think you should switch out aftershock for another spell. Something from wind or earth maybe. For your PvE build, does everyone stay down long enough for that 3/4th sec casting time?
Your W/Mo seems nice though. Meimei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Every build has its weakness. Though I think the W/N has the most strengths and the least weaknesses regarding who to fight. Weaken armor causes more dmg and Rend utterly destroys certain monks. Plague Touch is the default for w/n, no questions asked. Seems to me that ONLY hexes are the key to shutting down a w/n.
totally agree, Ive test with all kinds of War/x. neg condition removal and enchancement removal is too critical for a warrior, and necro got both of them. they are pretty weak on servival but u have your monks to cover it up.
Enigmatics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Yukito, if you still care about that first build you mentioned, I think you should switch out aftershock for another spell. Something from wind or earth maybe. For your PvE build, does everyone stay down long enough for that 3/4th sec casting time?
Your W/Mo seems nice though. They do. Even without stonefists, the added damage effect of Aftershock will trigger as your target rises from the ground.
anti_z3r0
How do you rush to the middle on alter maps? You going to attack the Ghostly Hero 3 times?
Lets see here.... a non-conditional speed buff, or a very conditional speed buff. Tough decision. Hell, lets try to get an adrenal heal!!!! ZOMG!!1!!!! Meimei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatics
Maybe in non-PUGs, but W/N in arenas can't outlast W/Mo; plague touch and rend enchantments won't keep your health up.
What's your problem Enigmatics, you kept bashing us on survival ability. You are a defensive warrior with defensive spells. I'm an pure offensive warrior and i pick the spells to support me from dealing damage. both are totally different type of warriors.
anti_z3r0
A W/N with Life Transfer can beat the majority of W/Mo builds simply because no W/Mos ever take hex removal.
Life Transfer = wammo bane UberRusty
Quote:
Yep, Rush can be kept up forever unlike sprint which eats your energy. Can't build adrenaline you say?That's cause... YOU SUCK!!!!! |
Quote:
|
A W/N with Life Transfer can beat the majority of W/Mo builds simply because no W/Mos ever take hex removal. Life Transfer = wammo bane Not in my experience. LT doesn't last long enough and the recharge time is very iffy. Costs a lot for a Warrior class too. Zeru
Life Transfer is just...garbage. ST degen for your elite is horrible, doubled the fact that it isn't on for very long unless QZ is up..
Hell I'd rather run a Dark Aura/Pact self-sacrifice setup than that. The thing with rush is that it's just inflexible. Can't run flags. Can't run relics. Can't chase enemies after using something like heavy blow. The energy saved isn't worth it usually; just 'maybe' ok because of qz. any hammer warrior pretty much knows the main 'combo': Devastating Hammer->Mighty Blow->Heavy Blow->Crushing Blow->Irresistible Blow (can be added before too). Those are like the skills that should always be there. Mighty blow can be subbed out if really needed but with that setup and JI you can solo a full health monk to death without them being able to throw up any defense, except maybe a perfectly timed rof. Aftershock really isn't that useful. With QZ up it murders your energy and is really bad even without QZ. I'm pretty sure you aren't able to solo the monk before they can react with an AS setup. Irresistible blow is simply so good, along with frenzy, that you want to be mainly using your energy for that. Holy Strike is just bad. With JI on your normal hammer hit is going to do in that range easy. Judges Insight is a just all around better buff. For Pve, your tank looks good, though I'd say throw in a ward v melee since you'll be taking lots of melee mobs. Armor of Earth+WaM makes your monks life so much easier. 90% of the time W/N is an arena build since in 8v8 if blind is a huge issue either your enemies have multiple sig midnights (hah), are fighting a very bad energy war, or you should fire your monk. Honestly a lot of things work in arena that don't normally work well. Asking help with arena builds seems rather silly to me, since I'm sure you already realize how arena differs and what accomodations you must make to your normal char if you can't depend on a monk.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti_z3r0
How do you rush to the middle on alter maps? You going to attack the Ghostly Hero 3 times?
Lets see here.... a non-conditional speed buff, or a very conditional speed buff. Tough decision. Hell, lets try to get an adrenal heal!!!! ZOMG!!1!!!! Alter map is one of many different types of game events in this game. I say rush is still useful in the fact that 4a is easy to build using projectile weapons. [easier than melee for some stupid reason...] But outside alter map, I say Rush is king. If you need the speed buff that bad in sprint, go ahead, just don't whine about down time  . Alter is truely the only reason I'd ever bring sprint these days...
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meimei
What's your problem Enigmatics, you kept bashing us on survival ability. You are a defensive warrior with defensive spells. I'm an pure offensive warrior and i pick the spells to support me from dealing damage. both are totally different type of warriors.
I'm glad I made you laugh Uberusty...
As for you Enigmatics, W/N eats W/Mo. I've fought lots of them and I'd only lose if it was a knockdown w/mo. [Which is rare]. W/Mo usually carry the default Sever + etc. sword combos and the W/N who's running conditions will Plague Touch, strike with 2 different conditions, Victory is Mine! [if it's an axe build with axe twist, the w/mo is screwed without mend x] So the sword user may be able to mend, but the rapid fire nature of a conditioner W/N with ViM! and Plague Touch means the W/N will have energy to spare, the W/Mo will be out. I run 10 tactics so with 4 conditions on someone, I gain 196 hp approximately and a full energy bar. I'd like to see a W/Mo keep up with that... [don't bother with enchants, W/N without rend isn't very helpful] As for the info regarding Judge's Insight vs. Holy Strike. Both skills are good under the right conditions. I need my energy because my combo is different. I like doing a 2ndary strike on my foes using my 2nd class when they're down. That's just me. Also, JI gets ripped off too easily in pvp random and team arena due to all the enchant hate running about. Warriors with enchants are good, but once they're all gone, only one warrior can stand out and be feared, the knockdown spike... Holy Strike ignores all armor. At least, I think it does. Most enemies I struck for 40+30, but the only one I struck for less was some monk, for 38 + 28. bah... 70 dmg for 5 energy is a good finishing blow and it's funny if I have a hex on me before hand and I do smite hex... overkill... I might as well test your judge's insight idea over Holy Strike. I'll report in my results laters... ^_^ UberRusty
Judge's Insight is much better than Holy Strike in my experience, with Hammers it is mucho higho damage. Last time I used it, 60 - 70 per normal hit on a Monk. With Holy Strike, there really isn't any point since Irresistable Blow will do just as much damage, AND it recharges faster. (as Zeru mentioned).
Yukito Kunisaki
Just ran 25 test fights in random arena and 5 in team arena...
Out of the 25 fights, I found myself too low on energy to do anything to keep Judge's Insight up in all of them. [10smite...] Out of those 25, 20 of them had my JI stripped from me. I guess it goes to show that there aren't as many idiots in random pvp as one would expect. Having too little energy to do my crushing blow and irresistable blow sucked. In the 5 team arena fights I've had, ALL of them, my Judge's Insight was clobbered with Shatter Enchantments and Rend. Conclusion: JI is useless on a hammer warrior unless he has chaff enchants AND the enemy doesn't have Rend enchantments... Also, there's more and more smart people in pvp than previously anticipated. Strength of Honor and JI seem to be better for rapid fire weapons than hammers due to fast attack speed mainly. I'll be sticking to my knockdown with holy strike. At least without enchantments, I'm not useless... I'll have more energy to use... That and I'll have a good armor penetrating follow up that won't have me begging for energy. Meimei
Why do you guys always want to use elemental spells to boost your damage? I've test with ALL kinds of war/x and Pure Hammer damage is way superior. If you get 12+4 hammer 12+1 str, each regular attack is 50, critical on regular hit is 100. Heavy blow can deal up to 85, critical for 140. And boost up with frenzy in the middle of chain knockdowns not only you attack faster, your animation on skills swings faster, and any none warrior will not servive cause the damage is too huge. I'd metion about frenzy a lot of time and seems nobody care to use them, Guess ill keep it on myself.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meimei
Why do you guys always want to use elemental spells to boost your damage? I've test with ALL kinds of war/x and Pure Hammer damage is way superior. If you get 12+4 hammer 12+1 str, each regular attack is 50, critical on regular hit is 100. Heavy blow can deal up to 85, critical for 140. And boost up with frenzy in the middle of chain knockdowns not only you attack faster, your animation on skills swings faster, and any none warrior will not servive cause the damage is too huge. I'd metion about frenzy a lot of time and seems nobody care to use them, Guess ill keep it on myself.
It's cool. I'm not going to use damage enhancing enchantments anymore either. The hammer really does do a TON of damage on it's own, however, the armor ignoring spike that is Holy strike can oddly enough, be comboed by an Irresistable Blow right behind it.
so: Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Heavy Blow, Holy Strike, Irresistable Blow It's funny doing this on someone trying to escape... lol. Devastating Hammer crit to the back? always fun. |