C'mon let's raise the bar on this!
-Fear Me!- This skill is way under powered
johnnylange
I think Fear Me! for Warriors could use a mega boost of strength! With 11 in tatics you only put out an energy drain of 3! C'mon let's raise the bar on this!
C'mon let's raise the bar on this!
Van the Warrior
fear me + batle rage = -3 energy per second
Zeru
This skill is insanely good. Massive aoe energy denial; BR is not the way to go though. With 13 tactics it takes 4 energy in quite a large area.
johnnylange
Try using Fear me! against an Ele with +60 energy...wouldn't even put a dent in their supply. 
Using Battle Rage + Fear Me! the Mes just has to cast Soothing Images and adrenaline goes bye bye!
Using Battle Rage + Fear Me! the Mes just has to cast Soothing Images and adrenaline goes bye bye!
Zeru
Try doing anything when you are locked at zero energy
It takes longer to work but there's not much you can do besides ward v melee/aegis/guardian or move quite a distance away, possibly out of healing/attack range.
Soothing is not the way around this either. Sympathetic is much stronger as it won't get removed within <5s.
It takes longer to work but there's not much you can do besides ward v melee/aegis/guardian or move quite a distance away, possibly out of healing/attack range.
Soothing is not the way around this either. Sympathetic is much stronger as it won't get removed within <5s.
Moltov joss
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Originally Posted by johnnylange
I think Fear Me! for Warriors could use a mega boost of strength! With 11 in tatics you only put out an energy drain of 3!
C'mon let's raise the bar on this! |
Zeru
War/Mes are better multi-target energy denial mes than primary mes because of this 
Thomasuwoo
This is one of the best way to beat spirt spammers. Fear me + cyclone axe = 2 energy gone every 3 seconds (Spirts will power adrenaline.)
And since the nice rangers usually use zpehry if you have a zelaous axe you can to this for ages and once ever seccond. This skill is fine as it is.
And since the nice rangers usually use zpehry if you have a zelaous axe you can to this for ages and once ever seccond. This skill is fine as it is.
Racthoh
Battle Rage ends when you use a skill and you lose all adrenaline as a result. You would basically be building up Fear Me! a little faster at best.
And even at 16 tactics, it's only 4.
And even at 16 tactics, it's only 4.
johnnylange
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Originally Posted by Moltov joss
Hmmm last I remember warriors arent about energy drain. I could see this skill working very well teaming with a energy drain mesmer. Thats about it bub.
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I think it could make for an interesting twist with warriors...I just hate seeing it go to waste.
Phades
Need to copy it with echo and use other means for adrenalin boosting to really get it to be effective. Only really works good against people who would die to warriors whacking away at them anyway and those that bunch up. Any anti-warrior conter is sufficient to stiffle the buildup of adrenalin to cause any real cause for concern. Most methods for energy boost and management can relegate the drain to be inconsequential as well, without massive drain occuring.
This skill is still semi-useable, but unfortunatly there are many other warrior skills that are unusable or just garbage. Then there are the issues of stances not stacking and all the rules for what skill (if any) that can be used if in a stance, combined with long recharges ect. Then there are alot of warrior skills that are more usable to non-warrior primary, but not so useful to a warrior, in more narrow situations.
Alot of professions have sub-par skills or skill lines in some cases and could stand to be retooled as well.
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Originally Posted by johnnylange
I totally agree, I'm in no means wanting to take away the Mes's job
I think it could make for an interesting twist with warriors...I just hate seeing it go to waste. |
Alot of professions have sub-par skills or skill lines in some cases and could stand to be retooled as well.
Thomasuwoo
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Originally Posted by johnnylange
I totally agree, I'm in no means wanting to take away the Mes's job
I think it could make for an interesting twist with warriors...I just hate seeing it go to waste. |
Fear me is THE skill to use in alter battles and on campers. They can either spread out and get away from the drain or have No energy. Clycolne + Fear again and again. So long as you're in a group of hostiles you can just keep on doing it. It can be done with hundered blades as well.
aB-
Now imagine 8 warriors using this skill: 32 mana gone once they use it.
But realisticly, it is a pretty worthless skill. Four mana will be regenerated in exactly 3 seconds by a caster anyways. Is that really enough reason to put it on your skill bar? However, if you buffed the energy loss up to something 7, eight warriors could all use it and drain 56 mana very quickly.
But realisticly, it is a pretty worthless skill. Four mana will be regenerated in exactly 3 seconds by a caster anyways. Is that really enough reason to put it on your skill bar? However, if you buffed the energy loss up to something 7, eight warriors could all use it and drain 56 mana very quickly.
Maltare
I'm going to dissagree with the OP without going into to much detail. Basically your argument about the ele with 60 energy isn't a very good one, because the ele has to use that energy as well as getting it drained.
Also, our guild goes to work on fear me wars really fast whenver we see them, we hate them.
Also, our guild goes to work on fear me wars really fast whenver we see them, we hate them.
Racthoh
Each skill costs at least 5 energy, some as high as 25. Fear me at best without runes will be -3 energy after 4 strikes of a weapon.
Throw on FGJ, every two strikes they lose 3 energy.
After you FGJ, you throw up Flurry every 5 seconds so for 15 seconds you're spamming Fear Me at an alarming rate.
Now, lets throw in a Quickening Zepyhr. All skills cost 30% more energy.
Now wouldn't that make every spellcaster fairly angry?
Throw on FGJ, every two strikes they lose 3 energy.
After you FGJ, you throw up Flurry every 5 seconds so for 15 seconds you're spamming Fear Me at an alarming rate.
Now, lets throw in a Quickening Zepyhr. All skills cost 30% more energy.
Now wouldn't that make every spellcaster fairly angry?
Zeru
If you buff this skill everyone and their grandma will be running at least 5-6 copies if not more. At least now it's not worth overloading your entire team with it, just running a key char or two with 1 or 2 copies.
If you want to buff a skill do it with the trash like rust, half the necro spells, any mind elite, etc.
If you want to buff a skill do it with the trash like rust, half the necro spells, any mind elite, etc.
Killajalavu
I feel that the skill is fine as it is. Warriors don't use Mana all the time, and the mana they do use, costs are low. They have what, 20 energy? Having 4 energy gains from 5 people, there goes a full bar instantly. Some skills are not meant to hurt them, but to help you. The ability to draw in energy to gain max energy for you is the benefit in this skill. Plus, all skills have their set backs. Purge Signet for Monks removes all hexes and conditions but for every one removed the monk loses 10 energy, or Rebirth, costs 10 energy, and when the person is revived, all remaining energy is gone, but the advantage is that it teleports them to you, and for Purge Signet, no more hexes/conditions so if there is 9 hexes, and 3 conditions, you are set to go with removing them all in 1 shot.
Zeru
^
This is like power leak. You don't gain the energy, they just lose it.
If you think it's underpowered, be content with mediocrity and so be it. If you wish to learn more, do a search. It has been brought up before.
This is like power leak. You don't gain the energy, they just lose it.
If you think it's underpowered, be content with mediocrity and so be it. If you wish to learn more, do a search. It has been brought up before.
Linkie
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Ha.
Ha.
MCS
2 warriors using arcane echo, fear me, channeling, and battle rage on the alter. THEORYWARS FTW.
15-20 energy drained every couple of seconds from nearly the whole team?
Nah but seriously 1 warrior spamming fearme in the middle of an alter is good.
4 energy takes 3 seconds to recharge? Well you can be casting fear me about every 3-4 seconds so congrats you've just given everyone around you little to no regen.
If fear me gets buffed every HoH team will include 3 warriors using a level 16 tactic fear me :O.
15-20 energy drained every couple of seconds from nearly the whole team?
Nah but seriously 1 warrior spamming fearme in the middle of an alter is good.
4 energy takes 3 seconds to recharge? Well you can be casting fear me about every 3-4 seconds so congrats you've just given everyone around you little to no regen.
If fear me gets buffed every HoH team will include 3 warriors using a level 16 tactic fear me :O.
Phades
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
Each skill costs at least 5 energy, some as high as 25. Fear me at best without runes will be -3 energy after 4 strikes of a weapon.
Throw on FGJ, every two strikes they lose 3 energy. After you FGJ, you throw up Flurry every 5 seconds so for 15 seconds you're spamming Fear Me at an alarming rate. Now, lets throw in a Quickening Zepyhr. All skills cost 30% more energy. Now wouldn't that make every spellcaster fairly angry? |
In your particular example, how much difference would the pure warrior provide versus a me/w devoting half his slots to feame, echo, arcane, frenzy and the other half to whatever else would be useful. Survival rates aside, the mesmer would be able to drain just as much or more, while still retaining other skills allowing other classes to focus on damage dealing.
Thomasuwoo
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Originally Posted by Phades
Its not so much the skill alone or how it combines with others, its merly a reflection upon warrior counters in general. It would be nice if there was a reason to have high tactics skill, making this skill scale up better at the top, but meh whatever. The methods to cripple a warrior can and do cover more than one target or prevent the warrior from doing anything to any target.
In your particular example, how much difference would the pure warrior provide versus a me/w devoting half his slots to feame, echo, arcane, frenzy and the other half to whatever else would be useful. Survival rates aside, the mesmer would be able to drain just as much or more, while still retaining other skills allowing other classes to focus on damage dealing. |
Fear me effects an area. I've said enough in this disccusion. It's powerful enough and Anet won't change it.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by Phades
Its not so much the skill alone or how it combines with others, its merly a reflection upon warrior counters in general. It would be nice if there was a reason to have high tactics skill, making this skill scale up better at the top, but meh whatever. The methods to cripple a warrior can and do cover more than one target or prevent the warrior from doing anything to any target.
In your particular example, how much difference would the pure warrior provide versus a me/w devoting half his slots to feame, echo, arcane, frenzy and the other half to whatever else would be useful. Survival rates aside, the mesmer would be able to drain just as much or more, while still retaining other skills allowing other classes to focus on damage dealing. |
It is easy to cripple a warrior, but pretty much every secondary class can counter that. Ranger, Antidote Signet. Necro has Plague Touch (how my enemies hate plague touch), and monk has a many skills to remove ailments.
A pure warrior running fear me against a me/w? Let me ask you this, suppose you are a monk. A warrior is attacking you as always, hardly making a dent in your health, but not even realizing the alarming rate in which your energy is dropping? Sure if you see a mesmer primary you're going to expect it. But with flurry/frenzy triggering Fear Me you're left defenseless, and probably bewildered as to what just happened. Yes the mesmer could devote his other skills to dealing damage, but Fear Me is part of the Tactics section because of it's tactical nature, as the name suggests. It is simply a different way of halting a monk in his/her tracks.
Also that warrior can still do Fear Me on your me/w, charge his adrenaline skills and destroy your me/w who is using those mesmer damage dealing spells. Afterall, the warrior will have the higher AL.
The Mighty Toe
Why not have Fear Me altered, so that as well as draining x amount of energy from your enemy, for x amount of energy your foe loses, you gain y amount of adrenaline?
These are just the idea's of a sad, sad toe so feel free to flame them if you wish
These are just the idea's of a sad, sad toe so feel free to flame them if you wish
johnnylange
Since fear me! requires 4 adrinaline, this gives spell casters a big enough window of time to counter battle. Mesmer(s) could use Soothing Images to stop them from charging this up, along with other adrinaline using skills.
MCS
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Originally Posted by johnnylange
Since fear me! requires 4 adrinaline, this gives spell casters a big enough window of time to counter battle. Mesmer(s) could use Soothing Images to stop them from charging this up, along with other adrinaline using skills.
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johnnylange
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Originally Posted by MCS
And then a monk could REMOVE this HEX....
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Well, it's good to know that there are "blah, blah, blah" strategies out there for every "And then..." strategies. lol
Anyway, you kids will have to do better than that...I haven't read a convincing argument yet. All i'm hearing is a lot of blah, blah, blah... I still think Fear Me! is underpowered. Call me what you like...i'm having fun with this thread. 
Ishamael Sedai
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Originally Posted by johnnylange
I think Fear Me! for Warriors could use a mega boost of strength! With 11 in tatics you only put out an energy drain of 3!
C'mon let's raise the bar on this! |
Well you don't have to have 11 in tactics. You only need 8 to get the 3 energy drain from fear me. One thing to remember is how powerful word of healing is. A monk can get what close to a 200 pt heal after divine favor from a 5 pt spell. You have to think of 2 fear me's equal one less word of healing. Plus if you are around lets say 3 enemies you can really see how powerful this skill is. You are draining 9 energy for a fairly cheap 4 adr. skill that can almost be spammed. Hit 2 monks in a ward w/ two fear me's and that equals 400 pts less of healing.
I use this in context of a smiting build where I am spamming 4 adr. skills to do the 37 aoe dmg. In that build it is useful anyway as a dmg skill so the 3 is kind of a nice bonus.
Phades
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
Regarding tactics, it is the best skill tree for warriors in my opinion. Great defensive skills (Gladiator's and Bonetti's), brutal offense (Thrill of Victory and Desperation Blow), not mention the healing capabilities of Healing Signet. The number of times that skill has saved me at 16 tactics, I love it. And this is just to name a few.
It is easy to cripple a warrior, but pretty much every secondary class can counter that. Ranger, Antidote Signet. Necro has Plague Touch (how my enemies hate plague touch), and monk has a many skills to remove ailments. A pure warrior running fear me against a me/w? Let me ask you this, suppose you are a monk. A warrior is attacking you as always, hardly making a dent in your health, but not even realizing the alarming rate in which your energy is dropping? Sure if you see a mesmer primary you're going to expect it. But with flurry/frenzy triggering Fear Me you're left defenseless, and probably bewildered as to what just happened. Yes the mesmer could devote his other skills to dealing damage, but Fear Me is part of the Tactics section because of it's tactical nature, as the name suggests. It is simply a different way of halting a monk in his/her tracks. Also that warrior can still do Fear Me on your me/w, charge his adrenaline skills and destroy your me/w who is using those mesmer damage dealing spells. Afterall, the warrior will have the higher AL. |
My main point of contention was that many skills, including the tactics line, can be more useful to other classes than a warrior primary and the majority of them do not scale up as well as other attribute lines. For pve, ive never found a need to go beyond 12 tactics for stances, healing signet, charge and so on. For pvp, there are painfully few skills from that line that actually help a warrior primary in a team.
Zeru
Fear Me is 4 energy at 13 tactics, where you want it to be of course if you're using this build.
It's easily in the top 3 energy denial skills in the game because regularly you can get 5-7 pips of energy degen from the echo/fear me setup, much much more if you are facing a spirit spamming team because fgj/cyclone/frenzy or flurry will let you spam them practically every second.
It's best use is to crack a healing ball, because it requires being spread close together for the seeds to be effective. Those 8 ranger healing spring teams don't stand a chance either; their energy will be locked at 0 so fast they'll be forced to move and abandon their best source of mass healing or sit there and die.
Though that's not to say that's its only use; it's still very powerful against normal setups, just absurdly good vs healing ball teams of any form.
Please try to understand how this type of build works before jumping to incorrect conclusions. And when debating a skills worth don't pull out this random bs like soothing images, which is definitely not part of the metagame at all (i,e practically no teams carry it), gets owned by NR, and is not really the best counter anyways unless you have a really hex heavy teambuild. There are lots of skill counters in this game but just because a couple skills hurt a particular setup does not in any way mean the skill is worthless or underpowered.
It's easily in the top 3 energy denial skills in the game because regularly you can get 5-7 pips of energy degen from the echo/fear me setup, much much more if you are facing a spirit spamming team because fgj/cyclone/frenzy or flurry will let you spam them practically every second.
It's best use is to crack a healing ball, because it requires being spread close together for the seeds to be effective. Those 8 ranger healing spring teams don't stand a chance either; their energy will be locked at 0 so fast they'll be forced to move and abandon their best source of mass healing or sit there and die.
Though that's not to say that's its only use; it's still very powerful against normal setups, just absurdly good vs healing ball teams of any form.
Please try to understand how this type of build works before jumping to incorrect conclusions. And when debating a skills worth don't pull out this random bs like soothing images, which is definitely not part of the metagame at all (i,e practically no teams carry it), gets owned by NR, and is not really the best counter anyways unless you have a really hex heavy teambuild. There are lots of skill counters in this game but just because a couple skills hurt a particular setup does not in any way mean the skill is worthless or underpowered.
MCS
Why are we even bothering to post. Just because the OP refuses to believe the simple fact that fear me owns :\.
Even if it didn't I demand point blank shot be buffed. No one uses it so it's underpowered. Better yet, read the wind, buffffff!
Even if it didn't I demand point blank shot be buffed. No one uses it so it's underpowered. Better yet, read the wind, buffffff!
Willow
Why, because SOOTHING IMAGES can shut it down!
Er... that hurts every adrenaline skill... Is "Soothing Images makes me cry" your answer to everything?
Er... that hurts every adrenaline skill... Is "Soothing Images makes me cry" your answer to everything?
Tigris Of Gaul
40 energy lost over 20 seconds...
...effectively 2 energy lost per second.
...effectively 6 pips of energy regeneration lost.
...in an AoE the size of a ward.
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on this forum. Well, almost.
Maybe we should buff Sprint? Energy Drain? Disrupting Chop? Signet of Humility?
...effectively 2 energy lost per second.
...effectively 6 pips of energy regeneration lost.
...in an AoE the size of a ward.
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on this forum. Well, almost.
Maybe we should buff Sprint? Energy Drain? Disrupting Chop? Signet of Humility?
Eonwe
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Originally Posted by johnnylange
But the mes was smart enough to cast Back Fire on the monk... or the Mes uses shatter hex on the Mes who casted soothing images which deals lots of damage... But then the blah, blah, blah...blah, blah, blah.
Well, it's good to know that there are "blah, blah, blah" strategies out there for every "And then..." strategies. lol Anyway, you kids will have to do better than that...I haven't read a convincing argument yet. All i'm hearing is a lot of blah, blah, blah... I still think Fear Me! is underpowered. Call me what you like...i'm having fun with this thread. |
ElderAtronach
We should buff Nature's Renewal. It's too weak. Really.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by Phades
Its not about the mesmer dealing damage, its using the mesmer options to maximise the effect and lessening the one dimensional character playstyle and including a different character to specalize in dealing damage. This would be opposed to one character attempting to do both and keep conditions off him/herself, keep sprint/rush active, keep abilities to counter block/evade conditions, and so on.
My main point of contention was that many skills, including the tactics line, can be more useful to other classes than a warrior primary and the majority of them do not scale up as well as other attribute lines. For pve, ive never found a need to go beyond 12 tactics for stances, healing signet, charge and so on. For pvp, there are painfully few skills from that line that actually help a warrior primary in a team. |
For PvP if you disbelieve the usefulness of tactics on a primary warrior best hope you don't run into me.
UberRusty
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha. |
Seron Dalar
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Originally Posted by Zeru
If you want to buff a skill do it with the trash like rust
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johnnylange
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Originally Posted by Eonwe
Just stop posting, you don't have a clue.
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Canadian
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Originally Posted by Zeru
This skill is insanely good. Massive aoe energy denial; BR is not the way to go though. With 13 tactics it takes 4 energy in quite a large area.
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Quite a large area? Adjacent is the smallest area possible!