does anybody else feel this way?

right im trying to complete this game on my ranger since i've already given this game including Hell's Precipice a once over, and well here's the thing do you guys think the other human players not including yourself, your friends, your guild mates are just complete useless morons? i mean you see them right? the ones trying to put together PuG's? you see what they type, wanna make a group for such and such need this need that...must be this cant be that and what not? i know you guys say from time to time zoning into crowded servers

"wow these people are idiotic noobs, i cant believe they cant do such and such without such and such"

or

"dear god this distric is filled with nothing but morons"

because i say it too and constantly, i can honestly say that i myself have ZERO faith in PuG's or people i am not familiar with so the thing that im tryin to get out is do YOU as a player feel the same way? at one point in the game? most of the time? all of the time? because its been proven to me that 90% of the server is incompetent with the excempt of some

earlier today i tried to do Iron Mines with my ranger who im tryin to finish the game with as stressed in the first paragraph/rant, well i joined a PuG and dear lord after the first PuG it was downhill idiot central getting to the Seer, fighting to markis was easier with HENCHMEN so yeah its further reasserted my ZERO faith in the competence of the PuG and with that im done i just want to know if even one person at some point has felt this way

(oh and dont suggest joining a guild because in most cases they arent that much better)

Henchmen are superior to PUGs in every way shape and form. Being "anti-social", I mostly used henchmen even for my first time through the game. PUGs waste too much time in forming and losing over and over at easy missions.

mine is

Finding a good guild is hard, and even when you do find one, sometimes it doesn't last (i.e. the various members quit playing so much). I don't think pick up groups are a total waste of time, but they're only really good for PvE. You know, where you can take henchies if you get sick of people.

Most of the time, joining a guild (one that isn't full of really bad players) can help. Problem is finding a guild that's worth joining . Hall of Heros is by far the hardest PvP I can find; GvG isn't anywhere near as hard, because there's too many "bad" players and teams running around with 1/2 henchie teams because they can't find enough decent players (remember, 90% of the players are really, really bad).

It might not be as bad as 90%, but I do know that pick up teams in HoH doesn't go over too well (we do ok if we have a leader who knows what he's doing, and all the individuals know what they're supposed to do, even though we lose the coordination of "I'm doing this because it helps you"). Guild Wars is a complicated game; it's a shame the hardest part of it is finding people to play with .

Seriously hoping my friends get this game this fall....

yeah i was gonna add that too in the post,

in the "Tombs" as we affectionally call it for every 1 good person there are 17 completly useless PvP'ers they dont like to listen, charging down the middle to fight the forgotten is a MUST trying new templates that work is a big NO and they continue running around with sloppy half assed templates and still continue to think they are good but yeah Miss a good guild is hard to find/make

I'd say that on average there are around ~30% useful pug players, depending on time of day and location. Thus more often than not I get henchies and go because it's much faster and less hassle. Even if you have 3 out of 8 morons you are still going to suffer heavily. I've been in many groups that are fairly comparable to henchmen, I've been in many more than for some reason don't know how to play the game even at fire island :/. I could count on one hand the number of good pugs I've been in for missions (even some included 1 idiot), I don't bother with them anymore and get guildies.

you guys are so full of yourselves

Agreed, and it seems oddly difficult to get into a group with my ranger.

9/10 of the groups are looking for a monk
1/10 of the groups are looking for a warrior or nuker

Throughout the desert, a place where I have only used PUG's for the mission, I decided to try henchmen and I was shocked. I completely ever mission with ease, including Thirsty River which I had a hard time previously with PUG's.

I hate using henchies only for a mission til southern shiverpeaks where they absolutely kick arse. Otherwise, PuG's or guildmates til then.

Wait untill you get to ThunderHeadKeep.

You might think, "the more time I spend, getting a decent group together, the higher the chance of success might be".

Well, can be, must not.

2 days ago I spent 8 hours in ThunderHead, trying to get a nice team.
An invited monk whispered me: "Are you experienced". I replied "Done the mission several times, will discuss tactics before we start". He joined.
We discussed tactics, strategies how one could do the mission, we agreed on one of the many strategies, we failed.
Everybody agreed on not-rushing, listening to ppl how knew the mission, following targets, etc.
Nobody did that, once the mission started.

I was bugged by a team to get 2 monks for the mission. Took 15+ minutes to achieve the job. Thank god people on the team were patient enough which made me feel good about them.
Misson starts: shortly after the bridge, but before the city one monk sais: brb, 5 mins.
What's that supposed to mean? It's annoying, sure, but after all the bugging they gave me about a 2nd monk and the time we spend getting a 2nd monk: Why don't they wait just another 5 mins?
They didn't even read the team-channel with me writing several times: WAIT! (using a hell lot more exclamation marks).
Almost at the fort somebody all of a sudden wrote: hey, where is the 2nd monk?
By then I already whispered the other monk why he wouldn't wait, why he would be ignoring what I was writing.
I even whispered him after the (failed) mission why he, the monk, with all the power over a team, didn't make the group wait.
Reply: I'm a monk, I don't care, I just do my job, I heal.
Long story short: After all the ignoring that monk gave me during the mission, I ended on his ignore-list for questioning his team-spirit.

After that I decided to give it one more try: Group was complete within 2 minutes. No explicit tactics-discussion, no fuss, just Bamm! build a group, get out. Do what you have to do, complete the mission: Bang: you're in Emberlight Camp (or whatever the name)

I shed a tiny tear of joy, finally getting there after spending hours with people who were just too selfcentered to listen to others.

Yes, I can feel your pain.

The henchmen are awful. Alot of people might be idiots be idiots but on most missions it is easier to group with humans even if you do get an idiot or two.

Leading is neither pushing nor pulling. Don't blame others for your inability to deal with people.

Guild mates for me. My mes was my last baby to walk through Hell. I had been trying for 2 days with no luck. No "good" (balanced) groups want a mes in that mission. (Why on earth not - I don't know) So I finally started a group. We ended up with 3 rangers, 2 Necros, my Mes, a Monk and Mhenlo. We had a few difficulties, but overall - we won the mission quite handily. Without 2 real monks. Without ANY ele's. Without ANY "tanks". Screw "balanced". All you really need is intelligent people at the mouse/keyboard and you will do just fine no matter what classes they are playing.

Henchmen are only as awful as the player controlling them. Henchmen are extremely predictable, which is a very useful asset. They will always react the same way to the same situation allowing you to plan accordingly.

Unfortunately you can be the best leader in the world and that is meaningless if no one decides to listen because they are too busy drawing all over the compass map. Or, like a lot of bad players, they are drawn to the red dots like flys to lights.

For Thunderhead, I just took 2 henchies for monks. Did the job perfectly, I think we had only 2 deaths the whole mission. I just completed ring of fire with henchies after not being able to get into a group yesterday , wasnt easy cos of the lava areas, but with patience, i eventually completed it. So yes, I have also lost all faith in the PUG and wont waste more than 5 mins these days looking for a group.

You can't get by the entire game on PUGs. The point of the pickup group is to find the good players among the bad, and add them to your friends list, so that you may party with them later. Sure you'll have a lot of bad parties, but as you move forward you'll have better and better selections of friends to adventure with and complete missions with.

It's all about the luv connection

after ascending my first character i never played with players. i go with henches every where.

my guild we keep small and kick anyone that goes inactive over a week w/o telling us why. i've pretty much just get other people through the game and let them cap their skills that they need and don't go any further unless you really want to. i spend alot of my time farming for upgrades and gaining money for the guild. i bought our capes and guild hall with my own money and let everyone else save their's for gear they will need. we are getting ready for gvg. the main point is that each person in the guild has a "job" not just playing to get further or more stuff.

my bro leads and has started farming to get money faster.
i'm the big money maker of the guild and find enough upgrades and runes to fund the guild.
we have 3 runners so we can get straight to the stuff we need and don't waste time. most of the time we are lvl 20 by 1 day.

if you get a well organized guild it works but you can never tell when there is an 8 year old as the leader.....well.....yes you can.

Henchmen can do Iron Mines? I'm sure they're perfect up to the seer because I've done that but they don't seem to get infused when you do or did I miss something?

Anyway, yeah... sometimes it's frustrating but then again I usually don't play warriors, rangers, mesmers or necros due to this discrimination. I play E/Mo and Monk because at least 7/8 people do not want to play healer. I can't wait until my guild gets a few more people as healers so I can try the other classes.

/rant on
Cooperation is key. Its the fact that too many people in PuG's are so full of themselves, they end up ultimately taking out the team. How? Use your imagination, or better yet, experience, because I'm sure that anything that can happen in a PuG has happened to everyone at some point. A healer going afk because they need to pick up their clothes, a warrior going afk because they need a drink, an elementalist leaving the group because they died when they charged a group thinking that their AE's would be sufficient to drop anything and everything.
I'm not against PuG's and I'm not for them. I'm 'indifferent' to them. If I'm bored and want to do something interesting, I go and find a PuG because I know that there will be one character there that will be entertaining enough. If people happen to believe I'm that character, great, because it doesn't really matter much if I happen to die while a monk refuses to heal. Its just another way for others to sub-conciously learn about paying attention in groups. They may not admit that they learn nothing by wathcing someone die, but they do think of how they would act differently or how they could have saved me if they were playing a different class; or how they could have saved me but didn't feel like helping the poor ranger.
PuG's are really more for learning, if anything. In my experience, there doesn't seem to be any sense of trust between the players in a group. All they care about is self benefit and completing the mission by any means necessary (this proved by the people who leave in the middle of a group because they want no part in helping others learn).
Just think about it for a minute. I've played several other mmo's and have been sickened by the lack of trust and communication between group members in Guild Wars. They all have this sense of singularity, and that these characters that they may never see again are their only current mehod of progression. In my other experiences the whole PuG situation involves people wanting to help others, and for them to assist in any way they can. Ask yourself, when was the last time someone personally assisted you throughout a mission, who you don't even know, and they didn't charge a fee.
Lack of trust is what plagues PuG's in Guild Wars. Nothing more, nothing less.
/rant off

I've gotta say that just last night I had a PuG problem.

Started off entering the mission in Elona Reach with a PuG of two warriors, two monks, one ranger and myself - also a ranger. Now team seemed fine, but soon as we got in the mission, my nose was put firmly out of joint hearing in the chat window: Monk 1 says to Monk 2 - I'll heal Warrior 1 and you heal Warrior 2!. Now, forgive me for being naive, but aren't healers supposed to be there to heal everyone?

Anyway, continued into the mission and got the first two pieces of the ascension crystal (or whatever it is you collect), but had a couple of tough fights along the way. When we had collected the third piece, the leader decided we should go for the bonus - so along we went. Got to an area with 3 mobs, so the sensible thiing would be to draw off one mob at a time, kill them, then draw the next etc....

NO. The Warriors obviously needed the Monks more than myself and the other ranger as they rushed head-first into the middle of the three mobs. Despite my screams of attack the healers first, all but me and the other ranger seemed to think that by using mindless hacking/slashing they would win. Needless to say they died, then us rangers died because the monks ran away to a safe place.

Once the mobs had moved back the monks came and res'd us. Now, this time I told them why don't we just complete the mission. They said we could, but they were going to try it again, so we repeated the same thing, me shouting get the healers - them ignoring me.

Guess what? We died again - leaving one Monk.

Again he came back and res'd us. Now rather than just accepting defeat (as we now had substantial death penalties) and going back the way we came to complete the mission, they ran in AGAIN! This time (surprise, surprise) we ALL died, failing the mission.

My rant is that why are some people so narrow minded that they think:

a) Only warriors could possibly complete the missions
b) Running headfirst into x amount of mobs is better than trapping and drawing individual mobs onto the traps.
c) Even with death penalties, it is best to try getting the bonus, rather than just completing the mission and going back for the bonus next time?

???

Apologies for the rant and I know there are a large number of decent players who aren't like this, but I just think it is so frustrating.

Being a ranger and getting pretty much ignored by everyone in the team because of that is wrong. If I was so bad, why would I have made it to the desert? I did it the proper way - hard work, strategy on each quest and NO help from runners.

Anyway........I'm done!