Why is everything in this game based around whether you've ascended or not? Besides the obvious pre-ascension storyline of course. I seriously want an answer to this question, because ascension isn't hard to reach! Especially for people who have a Guild to "rush" them. Rush to droknars, get the armor, and then they can run to sanctum cay, do a mission, run to augury rock, elona rach, the river, and dunes. Do those three missions(with henchies because they're so easy!) and then all they have to do is kill their mirror, which is easy for anyone who knows what skills to take(time consuming pointless spells of course, like ice defenses against your fire spells and such).
I'm just wondering why such an easily accomplished point in the storyline is the focus of so much. You get a ton of XP upon ascending, have access to new maps, and from what I've read, there's more ascension based updates coming.
Why not focus these things around beating the game? Because there's a lot of hard points in the storyline between ascension and then end. Mainly Thunderhead(due to jade/mursaat combinations, and of course all of the bosses), and Hell's Precipice, which is loaded with fire imps and titans. Which really can't be done with henchies, just because they're too stupid to handle titans without pulling in hundreds of imps.
I just feel like I'm being ripped off, having completed the storyline, and people who've only ascended are handed everything useful, and it makes the last part of the storyline seem pointless to me.
Why is ascension the benchmark of success?
Rhunex
TideSwayer
It's because with the level cap it's the last major character gain you get. Infusion doesn't really count as that's only to take on the Mursaat/Jade hits and the storyline has you wiping those buggers out by the end of Chapter 1 anyways.
I still don't see how in the hell ANet expects the PvE world to grow if they won't allow our characters to grow any more than they are now. You can reach level 20 before you even finish Kryta. Even a modest level cap raise in expansions (5 extra levels or something for each expansion) is a perfect excuse to add stronger weapons, monsters, skills, etc. in the new expansion areas, and the balancing with only 5 levels increase wouldn't/shouldn't be too much work. It's only an extra 100 health and the armor is what gives you energy increases anyways (I still think level gains should give some extra energy but that's besides the point) so that's a non-factor.
I still don't see how in the hell ANet expects the PvE world to grow if they won't allow our characters to grow any more than they are now. You can reach level 20 before you even finish Kryta. Even a modest level cap raise in expansions (5 extra levels or something for each expansion) is a perfect excuse to add stronger weapons, monsters, skills, etc. in the new expansion areas, and the balancing with only 5 levels increase wouldn't/shouldn't be too much work. It's only an extra 100 health and the armor is what gives you energy increases anyways (I still think level gains should give some extra energy but that's besides the point) so that's a non-factor.
Sofonisba
Personally, I'm very happy with the level cap. It is very easy to attain, correct, and I have done so on 4 characters (and ascended them blah blah blah). But that is where creative gameplay takes over.
If you kept leveling up and increasing your stats up and up and up with no true decision-making process about points distribution because you will always get more, where is the strategy? Where is the challenge? You might just make your uber level 1,001, get burned out on playing, and beg for even more.
If you kept leveling up and increasing your stats up and up and up with no true decision-making process about points distribution because you will always get more, where is the strategy? Where is the challenge? You might just make your uber level 1,001, get burned out on playing, and beg for even more.
MSecorsky
Growing != Levelling in GW.
Gathering skills and knowledge = Growing.
It's a different philosophy than most are used to thanks to your Diabloesque power-level-or-die games.
You don't need to think outside the box, you need to throw the box away.
Gathering skills and knowledge = Growing.
It's a different philosophy than most are used to thanks to your Diabloesque power-level-or-die games.
You don't need to think outside the box, you need to throw the box away.
Auntie I
I don't see that the game is oriented to "Ascended" characters. The only areas that can't be accessed by un-ascended characters are Fissure of Woe and Underworld (which are explorable areas available when your "world" has the favor) and the Dragon's Lair mission which can only be accessed by Ascending. All other areas of the game are available to un-ascended characters. Since Ascensions IS an essential part of the storyline I would expect that there is something to encourage people to actually ascend.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Auntie I
I don't see that the game is oriented to "Ascended" characters. The only areas that can't be accessed by un-ascended characters are Fissure of Woe and Underworld (which are explorable areas available when your "world" has the favor) and the Dragon's Lair mission which can only be accessed by Ascending. All other areas of the game are available to un-ascended characters. Since Ascensions IS an essential part of the storyline I would expect that there is something to encourage people to actually ascend.
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Auntie I
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
New content will be for ascended characters only, including Chapters 2 on.
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Of the current content available MOST is for un-ascended characters.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Auntie I
True, but they're not here yet.
Of the current content available MOST is for un-ascended characters. |
Rhunex
why though? why not any content for people who've beat the game, and put in that extra push to get there? Because there's not a single reward for beating the game. There isn't an uber cool movie to watch/unlock to hint into the next chapter, theres no maps you can go to only if youve beat the game, etc. I don't see why they even need 1 incentive for people to become ascended. Big deal. Woo. Ascended. I killed the games worst boss, and I still have the hardest missions in the game ahead of me. Woo.
Going off that I can see why ascension is so important.
But all ascension is, is coming into the realisation that you need to destroy the Mursaat, which is an objective given to you by the Flame Seeker Prophecies, and you don't complete it until you beat the game. Yet there's no incentive to go any further other than getting vanity armor, and even thats iffy because you can go back to the Temple of Ages to get the best armor in FoW.
Going off that I can see why ascension is so important.
But all ascension is, is coming into the realisation that you need to destroy the Mursaat, which is an objective given to you by the Flame Seeker Prophecies, and you don't complete it until you beat the game. Yet there's no incentive to go any further other than getting vanity armor, and even thats iffy because you can go back to the Temple of Ages to get the best armor in FoW.
Sofonisba
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Originally Posted by Rhunex
... theres no maps you can go to only if youve beat the game, etc...
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Kind of a paradox, right? Haven't really beaten the game, have you, if there is somewhere you haven't been?
Then what after that?
You wish for the PERFECT game which is NEVERENDING. Do you think this is reasonable?
chalt2
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Originally Posted by Rhunex
why though? why not any content for people who've beat the game
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I'm not sure why some things are really hard to grasp for some people but let's try and clear this up. The current existing installment of GW is NOT the entire game, it is at most Chapter one. From almost day one it has been said that the game will be "updated" in a form that closely resembles "chapters" so the notion that one has "beat" the game is misleading at best. For those of us that have finished chapter "one" we either 're-read" it or we wait until the next chapter.
I have two teenage daughters and they LOVE Harry Potter books and they read them from cover to cover in about two days. At the end of those two days they either move on to something else or they re-read it, they do not throw themselves down on the floor, kick and scream while crying about there needs to be more, what now? why isn't there another book right NOW.
Then again at 16 and 18 they are they are mature people and understand that those books are part of a larger story and more will come later and all they have to do is continue with their lives and in a YEAR or two there will be another book, I would imagine they would be quite giddy if they only had to wait 6 or 9 months for another installment like what is scheduled for GW.
Rhunex
no crap...
but let me spell this out for you.
I think there is no reason UW/ FoW should be for ascended people. if anything, it should be for people who beat the game. why? because there's no reason to beat the game otherwise. and if there will be a reason to, it'll be done in further chapters. i know that. im not asking for another installment of GW Ch2, because at ANets current rate its going to be crap anyways. they have the problem of granting everyones wish and thats why ascension is the benchmark of success, because no kids are crying across the forums that they cant beat thunderhead, or they cant get a human group for hells precipice.
but let me spell this out for you.
I think there is no reason UW/ FoW should be for ascended people. if anything, it should be for people who beat the game. why? because there's no reason to beat the game otherwise. and if there will be a reason to, it'll be done in further chapters. i know that. im not asking for another installment of GW Ch2, because at ANets current rate its going to be crap anyways. they have the problem of granting everyones wish and thats why ascension is the benchmark of success, because no kids are crying across the forums that they cant beat thunderhead, or they cant get a human group for hells precipice.
chalt2
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Originally Posted by Rhunex
but let me spell this out for you. I think there is no reason UW/ FoW should be for ascended people. if anything, it should be for people who beat the game. |
Well when you get around the point that you did not beat the game then maybe JUST maybe you'll get the rest.
I live in world that not EVERYTHING revolves around me and I understand that NOT everything is perfect, I also don't have the time to whine about something that doesn't really matter in the big picture so I'll leave this thread and hope that someday you will realize the the game wasn't made for just YOU.
SOT
I seriously call into question the INTEGRITY of roughly 2/4 of people claiming to have ascended and then asking this sort of question about "why is it such a big time thing?" Obviously, those same 2/4 people are lying through their teeth, and have in fact, never BEEN in the ascension trials, nor seen the sheer IMMENSITY of the tasks required to successfully get through it. Screenshot postings do nothing but show you stood there to prove me wrong.
Seriously, Ascension is such a big deal, because I know from experience, the damn process is maddeningly difficult, and NO ONE that I am aware of has done it one the first attempt, or the 3rd. If you have, hooray, you stand in a small circle of people.
It's a big deal because it's a pain in the ass and a sign of ACCOMPLISHMENT. End of sentence.
Seriously, Ascension is such a big deal, because I know from experience, the damn process is maddeningly difficult, and NO ONE that I am aware of has done it one the first attempt, or the 3rd. If you have, hooray, you stand in a small circle of people.
It's a big deal because it's a pain in the ass and a sign of ACCOMPLISHMENT. End of sentence.
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by chalt2
...I live in world that not EVERYTHING revolves around me and I understand that NOT everything is perfect, I also don't have the time to whine about something that doesn't really matter in the big picture...
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EternalTempest
(Sot) When you refer to not done in 1st attempt, is that in reguards to fighting your mirror or all three missions? (Agree mission and getting to the zones are a adventure)
If it's fighting your mirror, fire mages have it easy, now my GF with her monk took some doing.
Agree it is a major hurdle and worth it.
Ascension or the act of do the following:
Mock PvP involving Teams, King of the Hill, etc
Advance the plot, it's revealed (mostly) now to get there
Also something like, now that you have the ability to to Tomb Kings, you can reap the reward for fighting there for your server.
If it's fighting your mirror, fire mages have it easy, now my GF with her monk took some doing.
Agree it is a major hurdle and worth it.
Ascension or the act of do the following:
Mock PvP involving Teams, King of the Hill, etc
Advance the plot, it's revealed (mostly) now to get there
Also something like, now that you have the ability to to Tomb Kings, you can reap the reward for fighting there for your server.
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by chalt2
Well when you get around the point that you did not beat the game then maybe JUST maybe you'll get the rest.
I live in world that not EVERYTHING revolves around me and I understand that NOT everything is perfect, I also don't have the time to whine about something that doesn't really matter in the big picture so I'll leave this thread and hope that someday you will realize the the game wasn't made for just YOU. |
I really hope being all grown up does not mean that I have to nod my head and smile when somebody shovels me garbage. But if it does (like in your case), I'd like to freeze frame and NOT grow up.
Arton
Since it is going to be crap please stop playing and go somewhere else. If you remember correctly you used to not have to be ascended. They made ascension requirements because of 10th levels being tanks in UW. To be ascended you have to be 20th level or at least close. Not sure how the 50k xp works if you get it at level 1 or 2.
That is the reason you have to be ascended. If you have beat the game and are bored I hear that they have a good online hearts game somewhere.
That is the reason you have to be ascended. If you have beat the game and are bored I hear that they have a good online hearts game somewhere.
SOT
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Originally Posted by EternalTempest
(Sot) When you refer to not done in 1st attempt, is that in reguards to fighting your mirror or all three missions? (Agree mission and getting to the zones are a adventure)
If it's fighting your mirror, fire mages have it easy, now my GF with her monk took some doing. |
Point is, nothing is worth having if you don't have to burst a testicle getting ahold of it, especially the prestige and prowess that comes from getting past all that madness.
I say stop bitching and own up that once earned, your right to explore new shit is yours, and naysayer be damned, or let them ascend and earn the righ to bitch
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
You're not mature or a big kid now because you lie down and take everything Anet throws at you. People like you won't influence the game at all. Well, maybe Anet will see your post and decide to take things a bit slower because the population doesn't care and accepts extreme imperfection.
I really hope being all grown up does not mean that I have to nod my head and smile when somebody shovels me garbage. But if it does (like in your case), I'd like to freeze frame and NOT grow up. |
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by SOT
I seriously call into question the INTEGRITY of roughly 2/4 of people claiming to have ascended and then asking this sort of question about "why is it such a big time thing?" Obviously, those same 2/4 people are lying through their teeth, and have in fact, never BEEN in the ascension trials, nor seen the sheer IMMENSITY of the tasks required to successfully get through it. Screenshot postings do nothing but show you stood there to prove me wrong.
Seriously, Ascension is such a big deal, because I know from experience, the damn process is maddeningly difficult, and NO ONE that I am aware of has done it one the first attempt, or the 3rd. If you have, hooray, you stand in a small circle of people. It's a big deal because it's a pain in the ass and a sign of ACCOMPLISHMENT. End of sentence. |
The monk was a bit more difficult, but I figured out all I had to do was take out some skills and leave some blanks. Ascension felt like all of the other missions did... lots of tedium. Thirsty River was surprisingly interesting with the PvP elements.
But I digress. Ascension is not a big deal at all.
EternalTempest
Ahh glitch on my web browser, did not mean to double post
EternalTempest
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Originally Posted by SOT
Well to be honest, as I am not one to half ass my way through life, I was referring to all 3 missions It took me about 12 tries on the teams of forgotten, and the other 2 well, I'll just say I lost my temper
Point is, nothing is worth having if you don't have to burst a testicle getting ahold of it, especially the prestige and prowess that comes from getting past all that madness. I say stop bitching and own up that once earned, your right to explore new shit is yours, and naysayer be damned, or let them ascend and earn the righ to bitch |
But was editing before you respondes.
You have the right to fight for your server, you should have the right to the reward Fow/Uw.
MSecorsky
Ascension is the first major benchmark of success because the game was created so that ascension is the first major benchmark of success. Simple as that.
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer
You should really reread his post and get a grip
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He mentions his fatherhood and his 16 + 18 year old daughters being mature. I think that definitely implies that he's calling us all immature.
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
He mentions his fatherhood and his 16 + 18 year old daughters being mature. I think that definitely implies that he's calling us all immature.
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And I don't think he's calling us all immature. I think he was talking about the immature posts made by some , however.
SOT
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
Nice post. Don't tell me to get a grip.
He mentions his fatherhood and his 16 + 18 year old daughters being mature. I think that definitely implies that he's calling us all immature. |
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer
I was talking about his post after that (that is why "post is singular"). And I don't think he's calling us all immature. I think he was talking about the immature posts made by some , however.
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Please all of you "mature" people. Get off your high horses and stop getting your jollies off on calling everybody immature. I could fling "immature" at you for doing that and you can fling "immature" at me for doing this. I think it's better we avoid the whole maturity insult because nobody seems to be in the right or the wrong.
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by SOT
Get an Axe Grip of Shut Your Mouth.
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I won't ask you to respect my opinion but I'll ask you to not flame just because you don't like it.
SOT
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
Because I disagree with somebody and oppose them I should shut my mouth? Or maybe it's because I disagree with you.
I won't ask you to respect my opinion but I'll ask you to not flame just because you don't like it. |
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
Your flame is subtley hidden. I congratulate you. Your lightning wit is obviously of higher caliber than mine and of more maturity.
Please all of you "mature" people. Get off your high horses and stop getting your jollies off on calling everybody immature. I could fling "immature" at you for doing that and you can fling "immature" at me for doing this. I think it's better we avoid the whole maturity insult because nobody seems to be in the right or the wrong. |
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by SOT
I don't recall that we disagreed about a thing actually. I simply recall your comment was asinine and had no purpose save the same one below here.
I sense a troll in the forest. |
Thank you for the ign. I'll add you to my ignore list and I hope we never meet ingame.
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
Your flame is subtley hidden. I congratulate you. Your lightning wit is obviously of higher caliber than mine and of more maturity.
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Perhaps I worded my post in a bad way
SOT
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
My comment was to express my distaste for people accusing each other of being immature.
Thank you for the ign. I'll add you to my ignore list and I hope we never meet ingame. |
chalt2
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
population doesn't care and accepts extreme imperfection.
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Does the game not work at all?
Do the servers crash on a regular basis?
Does the video and graphics only work on a monochrome screen?
Does your character, money and equipment disapear everytime you log off?
or by "Extreme Imperfection" do you mean that there are some aspects of the game play that does not fit to your personal preferences?
See I am not defending Anet or the game for that matter my argument was about the unrealistic expectations of some people made around a product that's SOLE purpose is to entertain. As usual though people like yourself are SO self-centered that it ALWAYS has to be about you and your "end of the world" view of the problems the game has in your opinion.
I'll take it one step further, statements like "Extreme Imperfection" are used by Lawyers to describe the hairline crack in a bolt that held the tail section of a DC-10 aircraft together and then broke in two which led to the death of 100 people but I'm sure you consider the issue you may have with Guild Wars jsut as important.
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by chalt2
hmmm "Extreme Imperfection" you say, wow that must be REALLY bad.
Does the game not work at all? Do the servers crash on a regular basis? Does the video and graphics only work on a monochrome screen? Does your character, money and equipment disapear everytime you log off? or by "Extreme Imperfection" do you mean that there are some aspects of the game play that does not fit to your personal preferences? See I am not defending Anet or the game for that matter my argument was about the unrealistic expectations of some people made around a product that's SOLE purpose is to entertain. As usual though people like yourself are SO self-centered that it ALWAYS has to be about you and your "end of the world" view of the problems the game has in your opinion. I'll take it one step further, statements like "Extreme Imperfection" are used by Lawyers to describe the hairline crack in a bolt that held the tail section of a DC-10 aircraft together and then broke in two which led to the death of 100 people but I'm sure you consider the issue you may have with Guild Wars jsut as important. |
Wanting things and wanting to get ahead hold negative connotations. I'm sure you've realized (from all of your years of experience) that the world is not kind to those that are "moral" and "virtuous". The people that get ahead are self centered. I want to get ahead.
zehly
For me, success is getting to Ring of Fire and capping Elemental Attunement, or Life Transfer. I know usually when I pick up a group in RoF -- for now -- that the people know fairly well what they are doing. Thunderhead keeps those idiot Droknar rushee's (at least, the ignorant ones who haven't beaten the game without a rush at least once) from getting into my Ring of Fire. At least I don't have to worry about seeing spells like Amity in the Ascalon/Yak's bend Arenas. And you can't run to the RoF. So for me, the "benchmark" is getting to RoF.
The next benchmark? Experience. To make a point (and not to brag), my Ele has 600k+ experience, and my Monk has 900k (due in part to farming, so that makes it invalid). I would like to see the little emotes like /rank implemented for experience too. Surely someone with 1.5M experience has SOME idea what they are doing.
Finally, the obtaining of all skills for your class (including elites). If you are able to get all skills and elites, you've managed to do something reasonably right. Gimme an emote for that too. People use Rank in PvP as status. I play PvE mostly. I deserve status, too, for my work.
So god damnit, give me status.
The next benchmark? Experience. To make a point (and not to brag), my Ele has 600k+ experience, and my Monk has 900k (due in part to farming, so that makes it invalid). I would like to see the little emotes like /rank implemented for experience too. Surely someone with 1.5M experience has SOME idea what they are doing.
Finally, the obtaining of all skills for your class (including elites). If you are able to get all skills and elites, you've managed to do something reasonably right. Gimme an emote for that too. People use Rank in PvP as status. I play PvE mostly. I deserve status, too, for my work.
So god damnit, give me status.
SOT
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
that the world is not kind to those that are "moral" and "virtuous". The people that get ahead are self centered. I want to get ahead.
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This thread is dying slowly but surely. No, wait, I simply missed it's horrid death.
thewayofway
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Originally Posted by SOT
Which is indicative of the antithesis of "moral" and "virtuous" - getting ahead, whatever the means.
This thread is dying slowly but surely. No, wait, I simply missed it's horrid death. |
As I said before, Ascension is not the best benchmark because it is not difficult. It takes a decent group and a bit of memorization (same old area over and over). It's hard to have any sort of benchmark for the individual because so much depends on the team. Maybe you were ascended by some strong friends or guildmates, or maybe you couldn't ascend because all your groups were bad. The same I think holds true for PvP. People want rank 3 or rank 6 and above but how can anybody reach those ranks? It takes an incredible amount of fame. I'm hard pressed to get so much fame because it is very dependent on the group you are in. The already rank 3/6 and above form teams to mash the low ranking players. Low ranking players gain no fame while high ranking ones gain more.
I think the only way to have a valid benchmark is to tie a /rank type command to some sort of individual task, that tests the merits of a single player. I have no idea how it would work but I believe that is the only accurate way to do it. Otherwise, it depends too heavily on the grouping.
chalt2
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Originally Posted by thewayofway
The people that get ahead are self centered. I want to get ahead.
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thewayofway
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Originally Posted by chalt2
Being slef-centered and having self-confidence are two different things and I am confident and I am successful and I am not self-centered. Movie stars, pro-athletes and ploiticians are self-centered so you are in a real quality group there.
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This is Guild Wars. As many people like to argue, it's just a game isn't it?