ATI/nVIDIA users having crashes/lockups? PLEASE READ

I have an ATI All In Wonder 9800 Pro, and since July, around the time Guild Wars updated their game, I'd been having problems. If you've read any of my other postings, you know what I've done to try and resolve the issues, but for those who haven't, I'll be as brief as possible.

1) I reinstalled Windows XP 3 times on two different hard drives.
2) I uninstalled, reinstalled, and rolled back all of ATI video drivers and subsequent software multiple times.
3) Purchased and installed a new mainboard, CPU, RAM, and power supply.
4) Reinstalled Guild Wars twice.
5) Used Norton Antivirus, Spybot, Ad Aware, and cleaned the registry.
6)I run Zone Alarm Pro, so my Internet connection is protected.

Nothing worked. My game, even before, during, and after all those changes, would still lock up and crash. Windows Error Report said it was a device driver, Arena Net's recovery said it was hardware failure.

Yesterday, my graphics card died. I don't know if it was related to all the crashes, or if the card was overheating because of the crashes, or what, but yes, my graphics card gave up. It's a very lucky thing for me that my sister had an extra ATI card, or I wouldn't be able to warn anyone. Since putting in her spare card, I haven't YET experienced any game problems.

I don't know if there's any software that you can get to test your cards to make sure they work, but I wanted to warn people that I experienced hardware failure. If you've tried drivers and other fixes and still are having the game crash on you, please be careful. My card was under warranty so I shipped it to ATI today, but others might not be as fortunate. Honestly, after experiencing the death of a $300 card, upon the first signs that the game is crashing, I think I'd give up. All these crashes could be damaging on your system.

On a side note, my CPU is running at 45C - with my damaged card in, it was running near 60C+ all the time. I really wish you all luck, and heck, I wish myself luck when my repaired/new card comes back in the mail.

All 9800's run very hot and the AIW especially. I have a 9800 Pro and I removed the heatsink and reaplied a better thermal compund. I also have a side case fan blowing directly onto the card for extra cooling. Usually though the card will give some evidence if heat is an issue by causing artifacting but lockups and random crashes are also the result of an overheated Vid card. Seeing that your CPU temp has dropped since you took the other card out I think its a safe bet to assume that it was putting off a great deal of heat. My advice would be to make sure you have good airflow inside the case. Install extra case fans if your case and power supply can support them. The difference of 5 degrees over the coarse of a few years can greatly shorten the life of a PC.

I completely agree with what you've said, Hysteria, except that I've had my card for a little over 2 years and didn't experience any problems until now. There is barely a difference between my previous PC (that I build myself), and my new one (built by me, also *grin*). The only reason I bought new hardware is because AMD wanted me to send them tmy processor (AMD Athlon XP 2800), and I found a good deal on a 3000. I realize also that hardware can fail, I just find it extremely coincidental that it failed after a month of Guild Wars crashes. I will, however, look into a better heatsink should I notice the difference in temperature, but since Guild Wars uses up nearly 100% of system rresources, I'd think that was more the reason for the temperature increase I'd seen while having problems. I haven't checked yet on the temp with the borrowed card, I'm just glad it works! *lol*

you bought a new mainboard, CPU, RAM, and power supply just for GW?

I'd like to say: Wow you're dedicated.

But I actually think its sad..

2 things...

1. Your card was still under warranty after 2 years?

2. You bought all that new hardware for a 2+ year old 9800 Pro?

And yeah, I think what you are seeing is the results of that card running at high temps for 2 years. These components can only do that for so long before they begin to break down. Honesty you are probably lucky that ATI isn't more careful in screening their warrenty claims because it does sound like poor air flow in your case caused this problem which was, of course, your own fault.

I do like the side case fans as i have one blowing right on my AiW 9600 XT (Who's CPU clocks as fast or faster than a 9800 Pro) and it's stayed within a very acceptable range.

Hope all the new stuff works out but ifyou drop that ATI supplied replacement card into your exact same setup you should expect problems. Cooling is the key to succes

Well, since you insist on being a smart*ss, I'll explain, in all its boring detail, why I bought new hardware.

I had a MSI mainboard, and an AMD Athlon 950. I decided to upgrade to a 2800 chip, and when I put it in my MSI board, it wouldn't work. I couldn't figure out what was wrong, and after 2 days I claimed defeat and took it to my friend's computer store, where he installed a new MSI board, similar to the one I had, because he said the board was 'fried'. When I picked the PC up, he told me that I would probably have to reinstall Windows because the system was acting wonky, which it was. I was about to leave town, and I decided to deal with it when I got to my destination.

Upon reinstalling Windows, the system still wasn't performing correctly. For 2 weeks, I worked on software issues, and the system still wouldn't perform, and that includes completely formatting a drive and reinstalling Windows. When I called AMD, they told me that the chip I had, the 2800, COULD HAVE BEEN DAMAGED because of the old mainboard, and the only way to find out was to send them the CPU and let them test it. That was going to take 2 weeks. I decided to send them the CPU, but to buy another one that I found a deal on, but this time I didn't want any problems, so I went to AMD's website, and they had a list of recommended mainboards. The one I had and had just paid for wasn't on the list. Not wanting to end up having the same issue and not knowing it if was a compatibility issue, I found an ASUS mainboard to go with my new CPU. I also bought 1GB of RAM, because I had two 512s, but one was PC333 and the other was PC133. I purchased two that were PC400. My computer still acted weird. The REASON I mentioned the hardware changes are because I was having the same problem with GW on BOTH builds of my PC, so it was a very slim chance of being a hardware issue, since my video display worked find when playing movies, and watching clips online.

So.... what's sad is assumption, no?

Hey Owen

I read that my card was under warranty for 3 years, so they had no problem taking it back. As far as my case cooling, I have a Antec Lanboy case - a fan in the front, two fans on the side, one on the back, 3 on the power supply. I actually didn't know until recently that I could take the heatsink and fan off of my video card, but I plan on purchasing one when I get it back. Any suggestions on a good one?

What card did you replace it with?

That's what is funny - right now I borrowed a card my sister happened to have lying around - an ATI 7200 Radeon, and GW is running fine.. slow, at least slower than I'm used to, but fine *lol*

Wait, stop hold all that up a sec.

What build of windows are you using, and what, if any programs are you running in the background. Specifically, what is the ctrl-alt-del listing showing as what is running as you look, at this moment.

Also, you mentioned you basically gutted and refitted your machine. If that is the case, this is not GW causing all this, nor windows. Did you do this work yourself, and if so, are you well experienced in these procedures? I am not questioning your intelligence or attempting to slight you, I simply did what you described for a decade as my JOB, and might be able to save you further time and expense if you fill in those gaps for me.

Thanks, and pm me if you wish it regarding this matter.

So there doesn't seem to be any problems with older hardware.

I'd tend to agree with that. When we got the feeling that my video card had bit the dust, I was cringing, expecting the 7200 not to work, but it does. It's nice that they made GW compatible with even the most basic machines, that way everyone can have an opportunity to play.

Yeah, you just need lots of system memory.

Just a brief followup. This was in an email I received from ATI regarding their warranties:

Regarding warranty on retail boxed “Built by ATI” products:

ATI Technologies Inc. warrants to the original purchaser of the hardware that
the product is in good working condition, according to its specifications at
the time of shipment, for a period of one to five years from the date of original
purchase. The warranty term depends on the product. RADEON 7000 and newer products
have a three year warranty. DV Wonder cards have a two-year warranty. The Remote
Wonder has a one year warranty. All other ATI products have a five-year warranty.

So that clears up any misconceptions about their warranty process.

Also, I haven't had anymore problems since sending ATI my 9800 card, and using my sister's 7200. I would have replied sooner but I was camped out in VA Beach for a few, and then life got real busy. Anyway... I've brought my PC back to Ohio, it's been running for about 2 days with no issues whatsoever, and GW plays (knock on wood) as good as it can for having an older video card.

Again, I just put this here as a warning. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many ATI users were having the same problems as I was, and then my card ends up needing to be replaced. Just be careful, I'd hate to see anyone ruin their card - even with the warranty, you'll be out a video card for a few weeks.

hi SOT - sorry it took THIS long for me to reply, as I was on vacation.

The only programs running in the background while GW is in use is Zone Alarm and Norton Antivirus. Sometimes eDexter, but usually I shut it off. I don't believe that GW was the problem - I thought, and still do, that something was causing the system to act unusual, and eventually it affected the video card. The system that GW was originally installed on was built by me, 1 year ago, with no problems since I slid the plexiglass panel on the side and screwed it closed. I had absolutely no problems with this system until Windows SP2, and the July 1st update of GW. Between those two changes, my computer didn't like something, but I found it odd that I could use my PC just fine until I ran GW - then it would crash.

I learned how to build PCs in college. I bought them straight off the shelf like everyone else until my sister suggested I stop spending that much cash on something I could build myself. The second one was rebuilt by a friend who, as you used to, does it as his JOB - I took it to him when I was frustrated in finding out what was wrong (as it turns out, the mainboard was bad). When I took my PC to Virginia for vacation, it was already crashing during GW, but we were determined to find the problem and fix it. A reinstall of all the software did nothing, so I did a little homework and bought the new motherboard, and other essentials, which coincidentally will not be money gone to waste, because my friend is buying all of my remaining parts.

But like I said, the video card was somehow damaged, it's being repaired, I run GW just fine now on an older ATI card, and all is right with the world

ii have a ati mobilty radeon 9200

i dont no what that means but i dont crash

i guess sarah is that much better then u *dance*

lol jk :P

im not good with comps soo dont no what to tell u

One thing you failed to mention was how other games or applications ran on your system with the AIW 9800 Pro card. If GW was the only program that was giving you problems then that immediately rules out faulty hardware as the reason why. I used to have the same card and mine was always giving me problems, but this was far from uncommon. It was widely known that the AIW 9800 card ran very hot and ATI's HSF unit was not very good at keeping it cool. I now have a Radeon X850XT Platinum, and believe me this thing runs a hell of a lot hotter than an AIW 9800 Pro, but i have no problems with any games or programs crashing, but i do have problems with my CPU overheating when the ambient temperature and/or humidity is too high. This, like any other hardware problem, is evident on any program i run, not just on one. To assume the GW problems you were having were down to your previous video card is simply wrong.

I thought that it was just GW at first, but then it began locking up when the PC was idle - eventually the video card went belly up. I got back my video card yesterday from ATI (and guess what?! It was BAD.), took the 7200 out, and it began crashing. Long story short, I went into BIOS, disabled the "Fast Write", turned the AGP setting in SMARTGART down to 4X, and not sure which one was the fix, but the PC has been running problem free all day. But yes, unless ATI sent me a new video card for nothing and lied about being unable to repair it, yep, I narrowed the problem down to the video card and was absolutely 100% on the money. The card went bad, plain and simple. The diagnostic problems were easier to narrow this time around, because I knew the card was fine, and the system ran fine with an older card.

Oh yeah so anyway... (got distracted with someone else thinkin' I'm a stupid girl *lol*)... I'm not saying that my fix will work for everyone, but I am using 5.5 Catalyst drivers, the AGP features under BIOS (running a KT6V MS-7021 mainboard) are all disabled, made sure the power supply was pushing out enough juice, and just on a whim I turned the AGP settings in SMARTGART down to 4X (probably not necessary, but I'm not brave enough to put them back on 8X yet), and my game runs as it did before. But I DID have a defective card, want my ticket number to confirm?

I have stated this in other threads so bare with me.

The ATI 9800pro needs lots of air around it for it to work correctly. What I did and still do with my older 9800pro is leave the PCI slot next to the AGP slot open. Also I leave the slot cover open. This has made sure my card has all the cooling it will get passively. It also lets the vid card fan work better too.

I have had my 9800pro for two years...no problem. You have to take the time and clean it out once in awhile. Dust will collect fast on those little fans and heat sinks.

This is also another reason why I never overclock anything. Overclocking generates heat and heat kills! What extra frame rates you can squeeze out by overclocking will shorten the life of the component. To me it is just not worth it.

Just a side note I suppose.

A 100% system load is of no consequence. All systems and hardware are designed to perform at 100% load level. This is normal For ALL applications and hardware.

A 100% system load will not cause a hardware failure unless the device is defective or already failing due to other contributing factors.

A lot of factors could contribute to the game crashing. Besides just cooling.

It could or couldn't be the card overheating unless you are overclocking your video card. From what I heard that if the HS/Fan on the video needs some thermal paste/silver, taking it out will void your warranty. I could be wrong about the thermal paste thing.

Overclocking the CPU can also cause instability problems to everything else on the motherboard.

Anyway, here's what I think that is causing your problem and that it shouldn't be a hardware problem since you have a lot of your computer parts replaced. Make sure that you are running enough voltage to the card and CPU. Ever since I did a reformat on my other computer that runs an ATI 9700 Pro, Athlon XP 3200+ CPU, I had to make sure that my voltage was at the correct settings. I didn't know how important it was, because I really thought that the constant crashings I've been getting came from installing the drivers wrong. I made sure that I did a complete install and that windows wouldn't automatically install the drivers since it can't find the ones that were deleted in the system. I tried catalyst drivers 5.4, the latest one, 4.12, and 4.11. All of them were still crashing my computer when I ran guild wars for about 5 minutes. Couple months ago, I remembered that the last drivers that ran very stable was the 4.11 plus the performance was much better than the latest drivers.

Eventually I did some research and a lot of people first said that it has inadequate cooling, replace hs/fan, etc. But I finally read one post about not enough voltage going through since I remembered changing my voltage back then. Those ATi cards must be running at 1.6v at least, 1.5v is not enough since those cards require a power source to the power supply. My voltage to my CPU is low as well, since it's running at 2.2ghz it needed to be ran at 1.7v. Maybe it could go lower but so far that setting hasn't been causing any problems.

I have also disabled fast write, I tried it one time and I had lockups and weird error messages. It is also running at 8x agp.

So to make a long story short.
ATi cards need to be running at 1.6v at least. I heard that 1.8v can fry that card. And 1.5v is too low, even though nvidia cards can run at 1.5v.
Overclocking is bad, especially if you don't know what you are doing.
Check to see if running the latest drivers would help, if not an older version is fine too. ATi tells us that only update the drivers if there is instability problem. Older versions give more performance. I read that 4.12 is probably the best.
Do a really great clean install of the video drivers.
Cooling, make sure that the inside of the computer is getting proper airflow at least. If you think it's the video card, buy a temperature sensor and see if it is running really hot. Those slot coolers also help and they are cheap to buy online.

Just wanted to let everyone know... yet again (posted this in several threads LOL), I fixed my ATI 9800 problems by turning off VPU Recovery in the ATI Catalyst control panel. I have since adjusted everything in CMOS back to its original settings, and I haven't had a game crash or freeze since.

I use a Sapphire Radeon 9200 SE and have never had any problems, not bad for only paying $50 (at the time) with shipping. I know it's not the best card, but I use the Omega drivers and overclock it and it runs just fine. I also found that disabling VPU recovery in the control panel seems to make the card more stable. Also: Fast Writes are meant to be used for the 9600 series of Radeon cards, not the newer ones. Most forums will tell you if you don't have the 9600, to turn off fast writes as one of the first things you should do.