The Invinci Monks - no fun anymore

Coldfires are easy. Terrorwebs require specialized builds that are a good deal slower against everything else, and Obsidian Behemoths...well, I can't say I've figured out how to do those yet.

Prot Bond is stupid. Just making it 2 energy at 17 wouldn't stop the build, it would just stop all the really bad ones - those of us with an energy engine wouldn't care. 3? That'd do it. I don't know what needs to be done, really. It's just problematic in PvE, but boy is it ever problematic...

Peace,
-CxE

Peace,
-CxE

It is as easy as it looks, and for most much easier and more efficient than doing it with a normal team. People failing this setup either need to get the hang of it first, or just need to get the hang of the game in the first place. Not only that, this isn't a setup that functions for one or two specific places, this is a setup that works for most places bar a few.

AeroLion is entirely correct about healing vs. damage, but that balance is tailored between equal parties, i.e. PvP. In PvE, UW specifically, you face multiple monsters many levels above you (giving them 'unnaturally' strong attacks and defenses), so the healing > damage balance need not necessarily apply anymore.

Protective bond is a special case. PvE lacks the diversity that you face in PvP: you know exactly what you can expect, so a specialized setup like the protective bond monk is much more viable since you can just avoid what your build is weak against. Considering the protective bond setup is specialized against brute force, and considering 90% of PvE consists of enemies trying to use unnaturally high damage, manpower or other methods of brute force to bring you down, it becomes an incredibly successful setup for PvE, making all other builds simply pale in comparisment as far as surviveability and versatility is concerned.

An already shallow environment becomes more shallow, and although a lot of people won't care for this because they will gladly use any means to speed up whichever repetitive process they partake in, I feel it simply hurts the game.

Running this build in non-random arena PvP will quickly show that it most certainly isn't overpowered in PvP, far from it - usefulness of Protective Bond as a standalone skill aside, once it gets removed by an opponent you're left with a pathetically feeble monk that will drop dead in one or two hits. Nobody in their right mind will use protective bond with artificially low health in competitive PvP, that's why I think a rebalancing of protective bond addressing the artificially low health exploit is in order.

The suggestion has been made in a couple of other places, but if superior runes and handheld items are not taken into account when calculating the maximum % of damage per hit (for both protective bond and protective spirit), this type of abuse would be impossible, without having any noticeable side-effect on the usefulness of the skill in PvP.

The thing is that still won't stop the so-called abuse. Yes, it'll stop UW soloing but it won't stop it anywhere else as it is easy to rack up a death penalty to drop your health where p.spirit and p.bond will still make a huge difference with or without runes in the equation. As you said, in PVP this rarely matters. Also, in PVE, this also rarely matters since mobs that don't come with some sort of counter to a 105 build are few and far between. Whether that be degen or enchant removal, mobs that don't have either are few and far between.

My initial reply was due to me thinking that monks as a whole were under attack for the healing > damage thing.

What the solution may be, I have no idea. I really think the instances of abuse are so specific that, in the overall scheme of balancing, it doesn't matter.

Hahaha! Ooh man! That would be a great april fools joke! Go with an invci-monk and drop one of those!

Great fun. I would be laughing for a half-hour if I ever did that.

I have a 55 smiting monk and i can kill colds, thier just a pain with all the interrupts.

Yeah, the coldfires interrupt a lot, but they are also very slow creatures so it's easy to avoid any interrupts at all if you play a bit "stealthy". When it comes time to cast a spell, do a quick run-around to their backside and immediately cast the spell. You will not only run out of the way of their maelstroms and shard storms, but the coldfires won't be able to turn around to face you and get another interrupt off in time for any decent 105 skillbar spell (read: something that fits the build - a quick-firer) to go off. Just keep running to their backs and casting whenever the need arises.

Shield of Judgment/Balth's Aura/Blessed Signet dominate colds quickly doing this. (I use miteethor's v3.0 skillset.) If you can manage to keep a few smite crawlers around until you pick off a cold or two, energy regen won't be a problem.

AeroLion: it will stop most of the abuse I think, even though with max death penalty a character could get to around 200 max health, the energy reserve also takes a hit which reduces effectivity. Ofcourse disregarding death penalty on top of runes and handhelds would be a more solid solution, and probably not too intrusive either - capping the minimum to which bond and spirit can reduce to 20 and 40 per hit respectively would also take care of most business.

But it takes severe degen and enchantment removal to put a stop to this, not just the incidental removal (one mesmer removing your top enchantment, then being harmless for 20 seconds), non-stacking degen (five rangers all poisoning you) or gradual removal (five necromancers each neatly taking turns using Chilblains on you, allowing you to reapply your chaff between each of their casts) most of PvE has. I put down 90% and I think that percentage is actually still too low. Ofcourse this percentage isn't accurate for people with little actual gaming experience, but it stands as potential versatility. That's why I don't believe this instance of abuse can be dismissed as 'very specific', specialistic maybe, but the specialization is PvE.

I got a 55 monk to and im glab because on my warrior if I try to do uw I just end up getting grouped with dumbasses going around aggroing everything they can
plus if you guys had 55 monks you wouldnt have such a problem with them

Silmor, let me first thank you for your well reasoned reply. It's remarkably refreshing and appreciated.

Capping the minimum to which bond and spirit can reduce, I think will prove to be the ultimate solution if it's proven both skills are too outside of balance. I, personally, don't think either are imbalanced in PVE yet, but I can see and respect where you're coming from.

Re: severe degen and enchant removal
I think it's very rarely that severe degen and echant removal don't occur in PVE. Let's look at Jade Sacarabs who will always use Chiblains as long as they can. Seeing as they come in groups on, at least, 3 up to 7 at a time, they will usually destroy an enchantment heavy build. Unless, of course, you're running an E/Mo that's specifically geared toward enchant maintenance. Stone Summit and Charr will try enchantment removal before all else. We also have moss scarabs that will vampiric touch, among other things, that will bypass p. bond. Also, there are a lot of enemies in the game that will use degen. The arcanists outside Rankor, spiders in Maguuma, Storm Kin in the Desert, etc.

I understand where you're coming from. I just don't know if I'm willing to forego the damage mitigation of the protection line to stopping farmers.

It would take at least 3 shatter enchantmens to effectivly kill a 105/55 invinci monk.
I always run into a group in fow that has mesmers. I use healing breeze and zelots fire as fodder. Shatter hits and i only lose my breeze, recast and im fine. Simple. Any smart farmer knows you cast your protective bond first.This way it has almost no chance of getting stripped. Only NR or Rend would be effective enough to kill a 105/55, or high dot for that matter in a pve setting.

again its not really an exploit in the skills. there is no glitch it was programmed to be this way. the only exploit is the areas because they cannot effectivly remove enchantments. take a 105 or 55 into random areas and gvg. you won't live long against a mes or 2 seconday.

it is only pve's lack of removal that is the problem.

I think changing the value of that certain skill when Protection is at 17 would fix it. Or am I misunderstanding the build? (I also forgot the name of the skill since I haven't jumped on the bandwagon of MOW farming)

Maybe they should alter protective bond or spirit to be a max absolute damage reducer rather than 5 or 10% damage of target's max life?

Will that help?

I don't understand those who ask for nerfs because of builds used in PvE. If someone has the ingenuity to come up with a build, like the 55 smiter, good for him/her. PvE is boring anyway...anything that makes it go faster is god-sent.

All very good point - but still I like to be part of a team that puts in effort for the drop - not just stand by and watch someone else do the work and pickup the items or xp... if I did then why play the game at alll.. just logon - go in a group that goes teh UW and let the Inv monk do the work while you clean the house in the mean time or go shopping !!
And yes we can kill the invinci monk with shatter enchantment - but why kill a fellow team mate when you are exploring the UW or fissure ?? In PvE you are suppose to work together..

I now only play in groups that have no invinci monkin them as I find the gameplay and tactics much much better. You have no idea what you can come up to kill the foes quick and without any loss

I read on GWOnline there won't be any nerfing of this build.

Since there are plenty of parallels between Guild Wars and Magic the Gathering, The 105/55 Build is the equivalent of playing with a Deck you copied off the Internet.

The ingenuity pretty much started and stopped with the people who created and perfected it.

While I'm not quite sure I'd go so far to say it's exploiting, I do think that these builds are milking enchantments, superior runes, and monsters without enchantment removal for everything they're worth.

I dont know how anyone can take satisfaction out of using the invincimonk builds; whatever variation. It envolves no skill; it is a trick and nothing more; the worst player could pull it off if you gave him the build and basic instructions; I might even go so far as to call it a cheat. Also; they screw up the game for the rest of us; the drops in the crystal desert are awful now; and you cant go 2 metres without 10 scarabs jumping out of the sand - more anoying than a threat; Anet please help us get rid of this build.

make it so the 'cannot lose more than 5% health due to a single attack or spell blah blah' is applied before the superior runes ;p 510 or so health excluding vigor runes is only 25.5 damage, so even with 4 superior runes (not sure why you'd run that without protective bond or spirit, but an estimated 210 health), the damage would be reduced enough for 'normal use'.

then again I'm sure there is a better and more obvious solution.

LOL! Go play PvP and shut up about PvE then. This, as has been repeatedly stated, is a PvE problem, not a PvP problem.

And the solution is to tweak protective bond.

As to shatter enchantment killing the invincimonks, I'm an E/Mo invincimonk, and I can take on one or two mesmers at a time. Shatter enchantment only takes out the most recently cast spell, which for me is usually healing breeze, which has such a short recharge time that it's hardly a problem.
The real killers for me are the necros that can remove all your enchantments at once, or the mesmers with conjure phantasm. Since phantasm deals in pips and not actual damage, protective bond/spirit does little to nothing against it.

You would be better served asking ANet to give a crap about people that actually want to play this game rather than asking them to remove the things that fans of it actually enjoy about it. The main problem of PvE right now isn't builds like this or the fact that farming spots/builds exist in the first place. It's that ANet has yet to come to an understanding that people LIKE to be able to walk around their world and not feel like they've wasted their time on it. I do not like henchmen stealing my damn drops. Worse yet, I don't like that ANet never thought for a SECOND to even tell the players travelling with the henchies what specific drops they even get. It's so lame. Seriously. If the henchies are getting something I want to know WHAT it is, not be completely ignored.

So ANet doesn't want to increase drops across the board for players? Fine. How about adding in more scrolls (like the XP scrolls), such as one that reduces the ratio of drops & gold that computer players in a party get to the human players in it. Seems like a PERFECT idea for a scroll to me. Of course that is also why ANet hasn't thought of it yet - because at the same time it is a new item in their world and it helps alleviate one of players' main concerns about the game. No point in adding depth to a shallow pool, right? The developers create this cool scroll trader that allows you to purchase items that break the existing rules of this game and right now there's only one rule that can be broken: XP. Okay. What about a scroll that adds an extra tick of health or energy regen for 10 minutes or so? +5 armor? Invincibility to bleeding for a few minutes? Stuff like that would be a lot more interesting to carry around in your backpack than 8 million stupid monster bodyparts.

It is possible to make farming difficult and still allow it. People go to these areas over and over and over and over and over because the rest of the world is a giant waste of freakin' time and space. There's an easy way for ANet to make allowable farming that also encourages the players to actually go out and explore the world that right now is too lame to even walk around in. All they have to do is change the drops & mobs in certain areas every couple of weeks. What's a farming spot this week may not be next week, but instead some random mobs/zones in some other area which previously were not giving good drops all of a sudden give a goldmine. The key is to NOT tell the players which areas get unfarmable and refarmable. Make us actually have to form teams and go out and find these (always changing) farm spots. The idea is that eventually farmed mobs are going to run out of loot (from being continuously killed by players), but monsters in other areas who aren't getting killed continuously over this time build up their stashes over time or are overrun by refugee mobs from old farming areas, looking for a new place to be able to survive in.

ANet wouldn't put something like that in their world though. Too much work to maintain and god forbid their world ever gets something dynamic in it such as this. This is the kind of thing the game should've had in the first place. An overworld that seems like it is full of life and not one that is a programmed anti-botter. Players would eat this idea right up. You'd actually see farming parties form in cities rather than naked dancing all day by the water fountain.

In PvE you are with a party - henchman or players - so when you venture the World and you kill monsters and they drop why not devide them acros the hencman... they are "players" too so in my opinio they should also get the dropps.

And yes they should randomize the farming location/drop locations. What is a farming location today maynot be tomorrow.

Why are we all in to the dropps - what ANet should create are more difficult quest - maybe several stories on ingame characters with there own problems and misery.

To all the complainers about 55 smiter monks - I have tried UW countless times with a "normal" protection/healer monk build, various teams, and I just couldn't cope anymore with the idiots, jerks, and incompetent kids not listening to others or going AFK 2 mins after we enter UW. When I finally got my superior runes and could enter UW alone, I was SO RELIEVED. Finally I could just take my time to explore places my groups couldn't even get to, and take pictures to my heart's content cos noone was rushing me, no stupid ele was charging into aataxes thinking he can tank, no macho warrior was making sexist comments, etc ...

I LOVE hunting in groups. Drops in UW suck so badly that it's nothing but the shrill of killing tough things and exploring for me (found a whopping 1 ecto on 3 UW runs yesterday ). If I can make a team of guildies and the other reliable people from my friends list, I'd go for that instead of solo smiting anytime, but it isn't always possible since Europe usually gets favor late in the night, if ever. But joining a random PUG for UW is 95% guaranteed frustration and loss of time - so why bother?

Sure you don't need much thinking and skill coordination for griffons. But before saying 55 smiting involves no skill, go ahead and try solo a big batch of aataxes and darknesses. Then go try to kill a few of those maelstrom casting drakes that are guarding smite crawlers ... the ones someone earlier posted are impossible to kill for a lone smiter. Yes, they ARE killable (although they are a major pain).

to all the callers for nerfing - if ANet had not intended for people to invent builds like this, they would not have put -HP items into the game free for anyone to acquire. From which follows that they DID intend something like this will eventually be invented.

They DO get a fair share of the drop & gold. That's why farmers go alone - if they bring even just one hench, they get only half the drops.
I think many complaining about "nerfed drops" are comparing how much they got soloing around Ascalon to playing with 7 henches in the desert. After all, 7 henches = 1/7th of the drops = you hardly get any drops at all.

I've wondered why not a percentage of monsters are random (within reason - no ice golems in the desert!). That would screw with the bots.
Ah, another PvE'er. I salute you. It's refreshing to hear someone who don't think the "PvE is just a tutorial for PvP", and instead wants more PvE. I had started thinking there weren't any around except me.

Well, FWIW, things like what you suggest could be added without too much difficulty, but I think it's unlikely to happen to any significant extent, because I don't think fleshing out the story and characters is part of, perhaps not even compatible, with ANets vision for the game.

That's rather crooked logic, don't you think? It seems obvious that -HP properties on runes and handhelds exist as a balancing mechanic, which is evident from their invariably better stats aside the health loss (superior runes vs. minor runes are a fine example of this). You sacrifice your own durability for other perks, plain and simple. Protective Bond and Protective Spirit however turn this reduced durability into an -improved- durability if not just one of such items is used, but if -five- superior runes are used on an armour (including one duplicate, I'm sure ArenaNet planned for that as well?).

Sure, there will be people more succesful with this build than others, but the sheer popularity of it shows how readily carbon-copyable it is - the protective bond core of each build variety just removes most of the normal concerns you'd face.

For those people who say the PvE's lack of removal is to blame, please, think a little. ArenaNet went out of its way to randomly include enchantment removal pretty much everywhere on the map to stop bots or farmers (regardless of what they claim, the latter seems more evident based on their actions), and it obviously didn't work.

That means there's options for ArenaNet if they want to address this: add in even more enchantment removal everywhere, which will make things a little more difficult for farmers, but seriously screws over people trying to rely on modest use of enchantments for their builds, such as for instance a W/E trying to use conjure on his weapon.

Or they can address those enchantments that are actually actively dumbing down the game from the player side, in the case of protective bond/protective spirit by abusing the lowered health mechanic. I don't see why just because people greedily exploit these 55/105 monks someone else needs to pay the price for their behaviour, we've seen enough of that already.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm very sorry that there's a vocal subset of the Guild Wars community that is offended by the monk solo build, but personally I'm thrilled with it and my enjoyment of the post-main plot arc PvE game has increased dramatically since I began using it. There seems to be concern over the idea that monk soloers have an unfair advantage obtaining gold over others. I won't speak for anybody else, but for myself I'm not in it for gold or items, nor even ecto (though actually being able to work towards Fissure armor is an admittedly nice bonus). What I'm in it for is the adventure. I've been able to reach areas in the Underworld that I never even sniffed in numerous PUGs. Whole new areas are being opened up to me that likely would have remained largely inaccessible without the monk solo build.

As far as being a "cheap" build or a "carbon copy" build that anyone could run, I would submit to you that while it may be relatively easy to use the monk solo template to tank some Aatxes or Smites, it's another thing entirely to tweak it and perfect its usage such that you can defeat Dryders, beat a 10k quest, work your way through the NR-spamming Behemoths, and start exploring undead territory where they DO shatter enchantments. Of course there's little incentive to do this if you're only in it for quick profits, but many of us use the monk solo build to further our PvE experience instead of as a get-rich-quick scheme.

Yes, it's a shame when you can't find a monk for your PUG, but don't blame the monk solo build. Being a monk in a PUG is often a thankless task, and there were often monk shortages before the solo build became common knowledge. I'll admit I haven't sniffed a PUG since I began running this build. Nerfing the build won't bring me back into the PUG fold, though. I've gone down that road enough to know I'd prefer journeying with those individuals I've come to trust and respect in game rather than take my chances with 7 other strangers, especially when just one bad apple can end the trip before it has even begun. To those who do enjoy PUGs, more power to you. I would never dream of knocking you for giving it a go; please extend me the same courtesy with my preference for exploration.

And at the last: this idea that this is build is a cheap "exploit" that was never intended by the devs. The arrogance of the people espousing this really strikes me. Let me ask this question: is there anyone here decrying this build who has a direct line of access to even one GW developer? I'm pretty sure the answer is, "No." The fact is none of us end users know if ANet has a problem with this build. The build has been common knowledge now for a month or so. In that time there have been numerous tweaks and fixes made by the devs, and none have altered the functionality of the build. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that a future nerf isn't in the works, and if a nerf does indeed get handed down then I guess we'll have our official answer on how the devs feel. Until that time, however, it'd be nice if people would hold off on tossing around the "exploit" tag. Share your feelings for or against the build by all means, but let's not pretend that we know what the developers are thinking.

Regardless of how harmless you think it is, and how harmless every user thinks it is, it's being made into a problem by the sheer numbers of people using this. At some point, ArenaNet will have to act, because not everyone in the PvE player base is willing to make a Mo/x or an E/Mo to achieve anything of significance (the typical 'if you can't beat them, join them' idea), and people will leave over this. And I sure as heck hope they don't implement some measure that mostly affects those who have nothing to do with this build, like they did on previous occasions.

You can argue that nobody really knows what the developers want for Guild Wars, but if you designed a multiplayer game based around teamwork, would you want it to turn into a shallow thing where one build dwarfs all other builds, and even most other teams? People getting better from using an exploit seem to always claim that if what they're doing is possible, it's clearly also condoned, and never ever look beyond themselves to see how their behaviour affects those around them. It's a single-player attitude in a multi-player game.

I use the 'abuse'/'exploit' label because protective bond at 55 health and 17 protection prayers is an incredibly elaborate and specific setup using a negative balancing property as its power to create a precise, uniquely potent effect used for something that is impossible to achieve by normal means. As far as PvE is concerned, the setup is unbalanced to the point where it dumbs down the game. For many new players, Underworld and Fissure of Woe are regarded as ultimate challenges to work towards. Being able to decently solo those places is a slap in the face of their goals for the game, so I think ArenaNet has every reason to take this PvE imbalance seriously.

Wong. Mitigation, deflection and redirection need to trump damage, not removal (aka healing). A greater emphasis on disruption and debuffing couldnt hurt either, but those skills are a bit behind the recycle curve versus the amount of offense available. This is just like how non-natures renewal enchantment removal is way behind the curve for monk enchantments. This would be ignoring ranger renewal methods of course. At which point all bets or off basically.

It seems that everyone is missing the point of this argument. The bottom line is this: Anet WILL find a way around this. Why not just milk it for as long as possible? It's only a matter of time before some genius finds another exploit to take advantage of, and then all the crybabies will have something else to whine about because they didn't think of it first.

And that's all Guild Wars is about, right. Milking these kinds of things for long enough until they're stopped. Thanks, shrevid.

I knew someone was eventually going to say that. I was being overly broad in my use of "healing" to include mitigation, etc ie. anything that trumps damage is healing. Next time, I'll be more specific.

The really sad part to all of this discussion is that if everyone that wants a nerf gets what they want the ultimate result will be fewer monks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with everyone saying this is completely unbalanced.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be rebalanced, just that when it is rebalanced people will drop playing a monk fast.

Nerf 105 monk build and another will replace it, restoration/mist form ele or perhaps the w/mo zealots fire soloers that constantly stream out of ember light camp and the as-yet-undisclosed aura of the lich necro. What about the 4 man teams of trapper rangers that never even take a hit in uw?

Leaving the aside the "fun" part of being self-sufficient, ultimately builds like this are driven by one thing: drops or the lack there of.

The arrogance of those who carbon copy and claim glory is perhaps the biggest issue with most people, not the methods.

NO!!! to the enchantment removal proposal! So many areas have been nerfed by adding enchantment removal that it removes the fun of the game for all non-farmers! I play a healing monk and I love to cast Healing Seed and Healing Breeze. And I run with Divine Boon on so that 1 Heal Other is good for about 300 points of healing. I get so sick of getting disenchanted wherever I go. Adding enchantment removal to every area of the game makes about 1/3 of the skills in the game worthless.

I think the way to fix this skill is to make Prot Bond and Prot Spirit based off of your unmodified max health before any items or runes. That would still make these skills useful, but would totally destroy the 105 build.

Well, I have no problem with folks who wish to solo UW.

The problem I had with the 105 monk who joined our PUG (of mostly guild members) was that he did not reveal his intentions. I was treating the team, so I guess I expect minimal consideration at least. I didn't even care whether he was a smiter or healer or protector--we use them all down there. Just didn't expect the 105.

He kept yelling at us to stay back, out of his aggro circle, he'll do it all. Where is the freaking fun in that? I was bored to tears - I brought my nuker, and I wanted to nuke (finally I did! - against his explicit masterly instructions).

He reminded us NOT to inquire about his build - if we keep asking about it he will leave, and he was "there to help" us. Gee, thanks.

Well, Mr Incredible went off and died in a bunch of Grasping Darknesses and Aatxes. Harrumph. Not so invincible. No one brought Restore Life because he did not tell anyone from the beginning. Most thinking people in PvE bring signet or Rebirth, so he had to leave.

So, we're down a teammate, we end up dying and leaving, thanks for allowing me to waste 1k on your little demo.

Lesson for me is just to ask whether we have a 105 on our hands, and if we do, I will not pay their way. If I wanted to stand around doing nothing, I could do it for free anywhere else but UW.

I have two problems with what you're saying here. First off, I agree that just because the monk solo build is possible doesn't mean it's condoned by the devs. On the other hand, you don't know that it isn't condoned by the devs. But by throwing around the "exploit" label, you're encouraging a global view of 55/105 smiters as "cheaters", or at minimum people playing the game incorrectly. I'd prefer to let ANet make those decisions, not you or any other member of the community. To this point ANet hasn't taken any steps to combat the solo monk build, nor have they issued any statements indicating their displeasure with it. I'll grant you that it's possible something to this effect could come to pass, and if it does I'll be happy to agree with you that 55/105 smiting is an inappropriate way to play (although I'll be sorry that an avenue to enjoying the game will be closed to me). Until then, why don't we keep the discussion to our pro/con viewpoints on the build instead of branding 55/105 smiters as "exploiters" when none of us can know if that's how they're viewed by the devs? After all, when it comes to what constitutes a cheat or exploit it really should be the game's creators who have the final say. The OP had a legitimate enough point about becoming disgruntled when a 55/105 smiter took over a PUG, and that's probably a more reasonable concern to discuss.

My other concern is your statement that GW is a multi-player game. IMO GW can be but doesn't necessarily have to be a MP game. To date I've logged around 700 hours in GW, and I've spent only around 15-20% of that time actually playing with other humans. Most of my time has been spent either solo or grouped with henchmen. And you know what? I think that's great. Not great because playing GW as a SP game is better than playing it as a MP game, but because ANet chose to design GW to accommodate both styles of play. Personally speaking, I've never been able to get into MP-only games. I played in every beta event and was pleased to discover that I could have enjoy GW completely on my own if that's what I wanted to do. The ability to do so factored heavily into my decision to purchase the game. Now there are times when I like to broaden my horizons and group with others, but it's awesome that GW lets me flip between SP and MP with ease. I'm sure the vast majority of GW players approach the game as a MP experience, and that's completely cool. But I don't think those of us who enjoy playing solo should be criticized for our preference. ANet has been clear that they want people to be able to enjoy the game both ways, and the inclusion of AI henchmen speaks to their commitment to making GW a solid SP experience. Now whether the 55/105 smiter is a natural extension of the GW SP experience or a build that goes too far is a seperate topic that's (obviously) open for debate.

what the hell is with you guys. Who cares if a monk can go off and solo. God I finally found something to keep me from leaving the game. Yes thats right ... the invinci monk farmer is "FUN" to play. After 7 characters all quest all content missions, competitive and team arenas ... this build is one of my only gw outlets to keep me here. Who really cares about disputing over the build. If you have an issue finding a monk in town, alesia the smiter is always there.

I give a lot of the crap away and even more back to the merchant because I would rather be out farming by myself then in say ... Lions Arch. I honestly cant understand why there is just no love in this community. And yet like homer simpson chasing the electricfied donut ... I am back here everyday to read about the next sissy who needs a bottle and diaper. Give it a rest guys and start working proactive as a "elite" community.

I don't consider them cheaters, actually. This isn't the sort of exploitation like with the 50k ascension fiasco, it is natural use of available tools. I know the term 'exploit' carries a lot of negative weight that is likely what's ticking you off about my posts, but I was using it in the secondary meaning of the word, being "to use or develop something in order to gain a benefit". What people further read in it is not really my concern.

I have nothing against the people using the 55/105 builds, I have something against that which makes the build work: the current implementation of Protective Bond/Protective Spirit. It makes one build significantly better than all others for PvE, which narrows a lot of possible experimentation and versatility in an already braindead (static and flat AI) PvE environment. The masses who are all using it to 'milk it while it lasts' are what make it a problem for other players: they use it to get ahead of other players as far as income and commodity retrieval (such as ectoplasm) is concerned.

As far as my remark about single-player vs. multi-player is concerned, I used it to indicate that even if you adventure by yourself, you're still partaking in an economy with other players. Only being concerned with the looks and bank roll of your own characters/account, oblivious to how your playing style might be affecting other players is what I mean with a single-player mentality in a multi-player game - it's usually a selfish way to play.

This is different from people playing the game by themselves, like you describe. There are many people who solo or use henchmen exclusively playing the game, but in outposts do their part for the community either by partaking in the economy, by helping out others with advice or material support, etc. That would be a multi-player mentality, despite the fact that you don't actual play with multiple players in the game itself.

Finally, I believe the existence of henchmen shows that ArenaNet encourages you to use teamwork in this game. The missions and quests are all designed to challenge teams of a certain size (2-4-6-8), and henchmen are there to fill those numbers if you dislike playing with other people, or can't find anyone available. I don't see this as active encouragement from their side to solo (which is going out on your own, with no team members of any sort along). I fully understand both avoiding players to party with and trying to make the game more challenging by going out on your own, but that has nothing to do with people who use it to 'milk it while it lasts'.