Tiger's Fury attack speed increase

mikey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Rainbow Crapping Pandas

16 Aug 2005 at 04:26 - 1
In the Quick Shot thread in the Campfire, I was informed that Tiger's Fury actually increases attack speed by 50%, not the stated 33%. While I am not prepared to believe this as of yet, I am wondering if anyone has come to this conclusion?

Charles Ensign this question is more or less directed at you because you seem to know a LOT about the game mechanics and such.

I was arguing that Tiger's Fury + Shortbow is actually 1 shot per 1.5 seconds, not the commonly believed 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. If you want to see my proof go check out the LMM's Quick Shot thread.

If it is +33%, then I am correct in saying it is 1 shot per 1.5 seconds. However, I have been told the description is incorrect and that TF increases by 50%. The person said they timed it to be 1.33s not 1.5s as it is supposed to be.

So if anyone knows anything related to this issue, please post here . If the +50% is true, ANet either needs to fix their calculations or fix the skill description.

VGJustice

VGJustice

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tyria, cappin' ur bosses

Boston Guild [BG]

R/W

16 Aug 2005 at 04:31 - 2
hmm.... I'm torn on this one. I used Tiger's Fury for a while, and it did seem faster than Flurry, but I may have been imagining things...

I'd also like to know if anyone has tested it.

derrtyboy69

derrtyboy69

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Clouds

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/Me

16 Aug 2005 at 04:36 - 3
it is 33%, at least with axes. i tested it and it is the same exact speed as berserkers stance, lightning reflexes, and frenzy. i may go test shortbows now

VGJustice

VGJustice

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tyria, cappin' ur bosses

Boston Guild [BG]

R/W

16 Aug 2005 at 04:38 - 4
ok, cool, Frenzy is definetly the same speed as Flurry for me and my swords. So, if A -> B, and B -> C, then A -> C.

Right, thanks.

wolfy3455

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

16 Aug 2005 at 04:39 - 5
Your math is a bit off. With it being +33.3_%, it does come out 1.33. Technically, it seems like it would be 1.34 though, but I'm going to assume it means by a third with the 33% for the sake of simplicity.

Its starts out as 100% of standard speed if you don't have any speed changes.

100%-33.3_%=66.6_%.

The standard 100% speed of a shortbow is one per two seconds. The delay bewteen shots is reduced to 66.6_% of the previous delay when TF is on.

2*.66_=1.33_

sino-soviet

sino-soviet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Israel before, CA now.

R/Me

16 Aug 2005 at 05:29 - 6
No, I am pretty sure that the attack speed is 33%. However, I think Ensign meant the damage output is 50% more, not attack speed.

mikey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Rainbow Crapping Pandas

16 Aug 2005 at 06:46 - 8
Well the basis of my maths was this.

If you normally attack once in 2 seconds (0.5 attacks per second), an increase in attack speed of 33% will mean you attack 1.33 times in 2 seconds. Using this logic your damage output is also increased by 33%.

Doing 1 attack per 1.33 seconds is a 50% increase in attack speed.

Because that equates to 1 *(3/4) attacks per 1.33 *(3/4) seconds, which is 0.75 attacks per second, which is a 50% increase in attack speed, not a 33%.

A 33% increase in attack speed will get you a 33% increase of dps, a 50% increase of attack speed will get you a 50% increase in dps (logically). So can someone please explain how a 33% IAS will get you a 50% increase in DPS?

Red Locust

Red Locust

Site Contributor

Join Date: May 2005

16 Aug 2005 at 07:07 - 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
Well the basis of my maths was this.

If you normally attack once in 2 seconds (0.5 attacks per second), an increase in attack speed of 33% will mean you attack 1.33 times in 2 seconds. Using this logic your damage output is also increased by 33%.

Doing 1 attack per 1.33 seconds is a 50% increase in attack speed.

Because that equates to 1 *(3/4) attacks per 1.33 *(3/4) seconds, which is 0.75 attacks per second, which is a 50% increase in attack speed, not a 33%.

A 33% increase in attack speed will get you a 33% increase of dps, a 50% increase of attack speed will get you a 50% increase in dps (logically). So can someone please explain how a 33% IAS will get you a 50% increase in DPS?
You'd think so, but that's not the case. If you do the math, it turns out to be 50% increased DPS with 33% IAS.

Take a timeframe of, say, 5 seconds. Then calculate how many attacks you'd be able to fit into that timeframe with normal attack speed and with 33% IAS. Multiply by the average damage per attack, and you'd see that it is 50% increased DPS.

mikey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Rainbow Crapping Pandas

16 Aug 2005 at 07:14 - 10
Let's use a timeframe which is divisible by 2 and 1.33 and 1.5.

A 36 second time-frame. In this time you will shoot 18 normal arrows, 27 arrows with 50% IAS, and 24 arrows with 33% IAS agreed?

Let's say each arrow does 100 damage (a simple round number).

In 36 seconds, normal arrows will do 1800 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 50dps. 50% IAS arrows will do 2700 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 75dps. 33% IAS arrows will do 2400 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 66.66 dps. So...

normal = 50dps
50% IAS = 75dps
33% IAS = 66.66dps

Red Locust, I'm still getting logical answers... if what you are saying is in fact true, then it means I've done something wrong in my maths. If you could point out my error then I'd gladly believe you. I still can't get +33% IAS to equal +50% DPS, so I still believe the skill description or the game calculations are incorrect. The game calculates it to be +50% IAS, but the description says +33% IAS.

Red Locust

Red Locust

Site Contributor

Join Date: May 2005

16 Aug 2005 at 07:31 - 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
Let's use a timeframe which is divisible by 2 and 1.33 and 1.5.

A 36 second time-frame. In this time you will shoot 18 normal arrows, 27 arrows with 50% IAS, and 24 arrows with 33% IAS agreed?

Let's say each arrow does 100 damage (a simple round number).

In 36 seconds, normal arrows will do 1800 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 50dps. 50% IAS arrows will do 2700 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 75dps. 33% IAS arrows will do 2400 damage in 36 seconds, that equates to 66.66 dps. So...

normal = 50dps
50% IAS = 75dps
33% IAS = 66.66dps

Red Locust, I'm still getting logical answers... if what you are saying is in fact true, then it means I've done something wrong in my maths. If you could point out my error then I'd gladly believe you. I still can't get +33% IAS to equal +50% DPS, so I still believe the skill description or the game calculations are incorrect. The game calculates it to be +50% IAS, but the description says +33% IAS.
Whoa, hold on, you really got me confused with those numbers.

From the looks of things, it seems you got some of your numbers mixed up. Our bow's attack speed is 2 seconds. With 33% IAS, that attack speed becomes 2 * 0.66 = 1.33 seconds.

Now, in a 36s. timeframe, you'd get:
36/2 = 18 normal attacks
36/1.33 = 27 attacks with 33%IAS

2700/1800 = 1.5, or 50% increased DPS.

mikey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Rainbow Crapping Pandas

16 Aug 2005 at 07:38 - 12
Ahh I see the problem, and it is on your end . A 50% IAS = 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. A 33% IAS = 1 shot per 1.5 seconds as shown in my maths a couple of posts above.

Normal = 1 shot per 2 seconds

IAS of 33% = 1.33 shots per 2 seconds
= 1 shot per 1.5 seconds

IAS of 50% = 1.5 shots per 2 seconds
= 1 shot per 1.33 seconds

Now do you see how I got my numbers? I thought about it logically, and instead of deducting 33% from refire rate, I increased the number of arrows fired by 33% which is logical.

Now do you see why I believe ANet stuffed something up?

Caelus The Fallen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Glasgow

Voice of the Darkness

E/Mo

16 Aug 2005 at 09:15 - 13
Yup, logically rate of fire is shots per second; ANet have used the reciprocal: seconds per shot, thus an increase in speed of 1/3 (33%) gives 2/3 attack speed, and following reciprocity translates to 3/2 damage-per-second (+1/2), or an increase of 50%. This is counter-intuitive.

mikey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Rainbow Crapping Pandas

16 Aug 2005 at 09:23 - 14
Once I get complete confirmation, I'll send something to GW Support about the error.

Red Locust

Red Locust

Site Contributor

Join Date: May 2005

16 Aug 2005 at 17:36 - 15
I'd say it makes sense the way it is. An attack is, for example, the act of swinging a hammer. The attack speed is the time it takes to swing that hammer, in this case 1.75 seconds. Increasing the attack speed would therefore mean decreasing the time it takes to swing the hammer. Increasing the hammer's attack speed by 33% would have to mean reducing the time it takes to swing the hammer by 33%, hence speeding up the attack by 33%.

In the example mikey used:
Quote:
Normal = 1 shot per 2 seconds

IAS of 33% = 1.33 shots per 2 seconds
= 1 shot per 1.5 seconds
The attack animation here takes 1.5s as opposed to the original 2s. That's a 25% increase in the speed of the attack, as opposed to the 33%IAS that was implied.

But anyways, this is all semantics. It could be interpreted both ways, and you can't really claim ANet screwed up.

wolfy3455

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

16 Aug 2005 at 17:56 - 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey

Now do you see how I got my numbers? I thought about it logically, and instead of deducting 33% from refire rate, I increased the number of arrows fired by 33% which is logical.

Now do you see why I believe ANet stuffed something up?
Most games I've played have been based on a delay rather than a attack/second setup. Increasing the attack speed should logically decrease the delay since it is increasing the speed of the attack rather than the output. A.net just followed the example set by other gaming companies.

hobo13

hobo13

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brutananadelweski clan

N/

16 Aug 2005 at 22:29 - 17
add serpents quickness and tigers fury, as well as QZ, put a zealos on your bow and you should be shooting faster than the game can animate it. you will stand still and arrows will shoot from you.

Fear Is Weekness

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Dragon of Cthulhu

N/Me

16 Aug 2005 at 22:31 - 18
off topic i kno but i cant get an ancer to this......since last night when i went to dl the new patch i cant connect to area net....WHY????

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

16 Aug 2005 at 23:17 - 19
33% faster attack in Guild Wars means a 33% shorter refire time, which translates into a 50% faster attack speed. Basically it's a shortening of the attack animation. Yes, this confuses the hell out of everyone who knows what speed is, but that's how it works.

Peace,
-CxE

mikey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Rainbow Crapping Pandas

17 Aug 2005 at 03:02 - 20
Well thanks for clearing that up, 33% faster attack speed does not equal 33% shorter refire time. That's where the conflicts arose, people claiming they are one and the same. ANet should atleast change the description to "reduces refire rate by 33%" or "increases attack speed by 50%" yes?