Switching Secondaries Sucks

Ok so I decided to switch my secondary profession awhile after ascension...but having used most of my skill points on my primary and first secondary proffessions leaves me with basically living in UW or FoW for skill points. And Doing the math,from the 400,000 something experience I have now to 2 million expereince yeilds only 80 skill points...somewhat impressive but none the less very time consuming, that is only if I get a non idiot group that lasts the first few quests everytime. I'm not saying skill points are extremely hard to come by, but it would be nice to be able to maybe go back and have some quests besides the ones in/around ascalon to give you skills for your new secondary, maybe one in each town? I know it doesnt take to long to get a new character up and running but, I have a lot invested in this character, runes, customized armor and weapons,etc. so I think it would be nice if there was a better way to change your secondary without doing UW/FoW 24/7.

and sorry if this topic was already touched on I tried my best to find it and couldn't...

Ok, I guess my first question is... did you do the side quests BEFORE you started using skill points?

Don't get me wrong... I know some of the side quests suck, but you don't have to spend any points to get those skills unlocked. Without buying any skills, by the time I reached level 20 I had around 40 skill points. I bought maybe 4-5 capture signets for the skills that sounded interesting enough to warrant them, then used most of the rest to start unlocking my third profession. I bought only skills that might really be useful to me in the coming missions and in PvP and still have a few points to spare.

Granted, there was no way I could unlock ALL the skills for that third, but that's part of the idea. You aren't SUPPOSED to be able to unlock half the skills in the game with just one guy unless you've logged hundreds of hours and a couple million (or more) XP. The idea here is to get you to create multiple characters with different skill sets to unlock skills. If you create 3 W/Mo with the intention of changing their secondaries and buying up all the skills you don't have, it won't happen. And it was DESIGNED that way.

Sorry, you need to create another guy and go through the game again if you want those unlocks, and in the future you need to be a little more selective with your skill points.

and I have I am on my third time through..2 level 20s completly unrelated primary/secondaries (and am working on a third). and no I did not spend all my skill points, I did all the quests I could find. I'm just the kind of person who has to unlock all of the skills for one proffession no matter how dumb they sound...I just dont want to start over to get my N/E to a N/Mo, not unlock all the skills with only one character.

So you're saying you want a FULL PvE third profession? Once you've gone through the majority of the missions as one thing, what would be the point of gaining all the skills for a new profession? If you want a PvP of a certain type, make two primaries of the two skills you want, run them through all the missions, then create your ideal PvP guy.

Sorry, I still don't see the merit of being able to unlock ALL the skills for a third profession for a PvE toon.

nah used most of my skill points unlocking primary... just wanted a feasable secondary....o well I guess I will just make a new character again... but now I have to delete one which i hate doing....or buy another account. Wish pvp characters did not take up slots..oh well

Exactly as I said, you simply need to be more selective with what you spend your skill points on. This isn't Pokemon.. you don't "gotta have them all!" Some skills simple don't work as well as others in certain settings. My primary is a Ranger, and I'm not partial to the whole Beast Mastery line. I have a few skills that I unlocked thorugh quests and maybe 1 or 2 I bought, but I simply don't see the merit (for me) in going Beast Master (that's simply my view, I'm sure others see it and do well with the build, but my playstyle is different and Beast Mastery doesn't fit well with how I play).

I'm not fond of deleting and starting over either... in fact I have 3 toons I may never delete... the 4th slot only recently got axed and that took me a while to do... I really wanted to try a PvP only guy and I just HAD to kill one of them... Now that slot is my "throwaway" toon. I've deleted it several times recently because I've unlocked something new and wanted to try it in a build.

Just remember.. unlocking is mostly for PvP... don't get hung up on the "perfect class" idea... you'll never acheive that in a single toon... unless you plan to spend ALOT of time playing that one guy...

I'm with Malachi and have a similar thread going here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...729#post394729

And how do you know it was DESIGNED that way? I thought it was based upon skills and acquiring those skills. I have read several places that the idea of the combat system was loosely based on Magic: The Gathering, you know the COLLECTABLE card game, and that was stated by one of the dev's.

I'd like to see where you got your absolute, "it was DESIGNED that way" from.

Emil, as you say, be selective in the skills you unlock and only unlock the ones that are useful.

I see that as stifling creativity, and also contributing to "flavor of the month-itis". Maybe if our ascended chars had access to all secondary skills unlocked on the account we wouldn't have these huge trends in builds, not everyone for every class just the ones for the secondary you are currently using.

I see only benefits and no negatives, for one we would have alot more variety in builds and we wouldn't have "flavors".

just my 2cents that's worth about half of that.......

If you are attempting to unlock skills for your pvp chars, then just go get faction... can be used for skills, no?

Although the secondary change would be nice to bring pve characters into pvp, it is just easier and better to use pvp characters for pvp. I am talking about pve characters here, I think that it would be nice to actually switch your secondary proffession and be able to have enough skills in it to have viable options, other than running around buying only the skills you need for a certain build. I like stone cold monkey's idea to have all unlocked skills useable on your ascended character once you ascened and do the switch secondaries quest. As of now this option just seems mostly like a rushed option to me. If I grow tired of my current secondary in pve shouldn't I be able to switch it and be able to get enough skills to have more options then just one prethought build without starting over..again?

Ummm... I know it was designed that way because that's how it IS. I don't think they coded the game to do something entirely different and this just popped up.

And as you've said, it was LOOSELY based on Magic. Their basic idea was that a combination of skills could win battles, but no one skill would be a gamebreaker all by itself. I read that in an article someone posted here recently...

this was not intended as a post to say that I wish that I could unlock ALL the skills for pvp with only one character...I am merely saying that it would have been nice to be able to use the switch your secondary quests/option to actually switch my secondary. As it stands now I will most probably have to axe a character that i have invested over 200 hours on to simply change the secondary. It is a nice gesture but it only works for specific builds. I have just realized over the play time that a different secondary suits my play style better. There should be a way to let me change my secondary and get enough skills to not make it worth making another character. Please don't turn this thread into I'm right/"they said" ordeal.Maybe i should have just made a petition.

Listen, you're trying to justify one thing by asking for another. You want to be able to unlock all the skills (or a majority anyway) for a second profession, right?

Ok, in order to do that, they would need to separate gaining PvE skills from PvP entirely. That would change the entire game. So basically what you are asking (and what a previous poster asked just yesterday in a different way), is to change the game to fit the way YOU PLAY.

Ain't gonna happen. ANet was trying to go a different route and it obviously isn't the way some people like. Personally, this way doesn't bother me. I have a R/Mo that started as a PvE guy and I use him for PvP. I do fine with him. If I had the desire to have a different secondary, I have a PvP slot open, and enough skills unlocked for other profession that I could build him. Even the couple secondaries I HAVE choosen and gotten skills for I only use 1 or two at a time. I'm a ranger first and foremost... not a monk, mesmer, etc. I don't need a bunch of skills from another class. A select few is all that are necessary to flesh out a new build.

once again this isnt about unlocking skills for pvp. I would be fine if i could change secondaries and not unlock anything for pvp. I just dont really want to start over to change my secondary for pve. I already know how you feel about this so go flame someother post, I would like to hear from someone else now.

My necro's changed his secondary 6 times, unlocked all normal skills for all professions except the monk class...and I never play that so don't intend to get them. I adore the whole changing secondary thing.

see, now we can all have fun with quotes

it seems to me that, for all you invaluable insight into the very minds of this fine game's creators, that you have been able to nance around mariachi's original question. if you don't know how to answer the question, then go away... because no one really cares if you are the bestestest guildwars pokemon heroine in the world. truth be told i figure your insight into the game comes from stalking the programmers. tell me, do they prefer boxers or briefs. not that i care, but i figure it will fuel your ego to demonstrate you know even more than everyother person who frequents these fine message boards.

i think the suggestion is valid, and should at least be discussed before you dismiss the idea because it didn't come directly from the programmers themselves. and further more, playing games is about having fun, my suggestion to you is to put down the laptop my friend, and grab a lager at your local pub. you know the one that exists in real life on the corner of a downtown street. because once you get a taste of the (real) good life you will understand why no one wants to waste time playing a game for a million years to get the skills they need to play a game they have fun playing.

I like the system as well PieXags, I just dont think that it prevents well from having to grind through the whole game again if you realize you should have had a different secondary. I know that it was not meant to be easy, so maybe some sort of price should be implenented, maybe keep the devs option to switch and add one for people to completely change their secondary, loosing all skill points one had for the first secondary. Or maybe incur a price to change your secondary. I just hate to have to grind again to just change to a secondary i have already unlocked many skills for with other characters.

Yes... lets have fun with quotes, shall we?

Anyway, to get back to the OP which you seemed to have ignored yourself when you decided to TROLL ME, let's answer the question AGAIN shall we?

IN ORDER to allow each player to get all the skills for a second profession easily and make them useable in PvE, they have to be separarted from PvP entirely. As I said in a previous post which you didn't bother to read, obviously, THIS WOULD CHANGE THE GAME ENTIRELY.

The game was DESIGNED with PvE and PvP closely linked. I don't have to be a "programmer stalker" to SEE that.

They wanted you to play through the game several times as several differnet classes. They obviously never intended people to play through the game as the same toon over and over again just to unlcok all the skills for all the professions.

I understand that the OP doesn't care about PvP and only wants the skills for PvE, but once you've gotten through that much of the game as one secondary, having a different one to do more PvE is rather pointless. how many UW/FoW runs can you do with the same guy before you get sick of it? Oh wait... then you would become a farmer... I GET IT NOW!

I smite thee troll, begone.

actually what i was saying was that i would like to change my secondary well and not have to farm UW or FoW.

you are the troll, troll. isn't it enough that you nance your way through these forums like your ideas are the only ones worth discussion and no one else's idea is worthy of even the slightest discourse. i'm sorry, i forgot this was the game you programmed and not Anet. go ahead then, stifle any and all analysis. make sure to silence all dissenters in your clandestine effort to portray guildwars to be the perfectest "out of the box game" ever. the fact of the matter is you slam every thread's basic idea to the point that other members barely respond to your own threads because they are afraid being picked apart by your fuzzy logic.

four threads, only two even got responses... time to get an attitude adjustment buster. maybe then people will want to talk to you... maybe.

The one thing that ticks me off is when you change secondary, you can't have the skills for that secondary, even if you have already unlocked them on your account by a different character.
Why not?

Why can't i be allowed to change my W/Mo to a W/R and get all the ranger skills that my RANGER unlocked previously?
It's pointless grind aimed at those who like to practice builds.

I want to be able to have all skills accross my account when i change secondary...not grind for 1000 skill points or whatever.

Example, earlier i changed my Mo/W to a Mo/Me and went straight to the ring of fire (again) to cap my last elite.
A member of the team was screaming at me to use backfire on a monk boss and i had to tell him i only had 4 skills unlocked with that character.
Sucks bad.

Exactly, it would be nice if all unlocked skills would be available to all characters who ascend and do the switch secondaries quests. It would prevent from having to grind through the game..again, when all you want to do is play as a n/mo instead of a n/e. However any skills unlocked through faction should not be available to any pve characters.

You post that... and you call me a troll? Show me a spot ANYWHERE in this forum where I've posted something like THAT.

People come here to post thier ideas and ask for opinions. I gave mine. What the designers decide to do with the ideas posted here is up to them. Hey, they may even go with some of these ideas. In most cases, from what I've seen, these ideas wouldn't work for various reasons, which I point out in each thread.

This game is not the "most perfect game out of the box", but the ideas the I've shared my opinions on in this forum are hardly things ANet would even consider. Adding a new "uber l33t armor" because it "would be cool" is hardly something a developer would even give the slightest moment of thought too. LOGIC tells ANYONE that. I don't have to be a program writer to know "because it would be cool" is bad reasoning. At times I've even praised people's ideas... some of them ARE good ones, and I'm not the only one who has said so.

Besides that, I'm not the only one who hasn't gotten my threads answered. It doesn't really bother me that no one has, and I'm sure at some point someone will suggest the same things. nad what difference does it make anyway how many threads I've created and how many got answered? Ever stop to think that maybe another topic was hotter at the time and mine didn't get noticed? Half the people here don't even look past the top of the first page, I'm betting and I'd guess about as many don't bother to search for topics related to what they may already be about to post. And look... you've made two posts on this whole forum, both in this thread, in a pathetic effort to slam me... and completely ignoring the OP. Where are your ideas? I'd like to see what your "perfect vision" of Guild Wars would be. You haven't even offered YOUR suggestion to this OP.

You need to figure out what a true "troll" is before you accuse others of doing it. Singling a person out and making nasty comments about them is trolling. Offering opinions LIKE THEY ASKED FOR is not.

Until you have something worth replying to... something CONSTRUCTIVE rather than another barb aimed towards me, I will be IGNORING your posts.

way of topic guys, lets just create a thread for emil and juice to hate eachother in. I just want to know if anyone else would agree that some other form or way of changing secondaries would be a nice idea to prevent from grinding through the game again just to get a more full secondary proffesion.


So far we've had

Option A: All unlocked skills available to characters who switch there proffession once they ascend

Option B: Allow you to gather more skills for your switched secondary but not unlock them for pvp.

Anything else? And I would like to have the pros/cons of these and anyother ideas disscussed, instead of slamming eachother, and having "fun" with quotes ( and emil we all know how you feel about this already, no need to expound my friend).

Ok, to get back on topic how about this suggestion:

You get to switch you secondary and can go back and do all the side quests that rewards skills again, BUT you lose all of the skills of your previous profession for that PvE guy. You'd still get the unlocks, but you wouldn't have this massive amount of skills at your disposal (which you really don't/shouldn't need if you are switching) and you wouldn't have to spend a ton of skill points because you would only have to buy the ones you couldn't get from a quest.

also a fairly acceptable idea, it is very possible to get many skills from simply doing many of the quests, however anet wont let you do most of the advanced quests (any thing after Yaks Bend I couldn't find a quest to give skills for my second secondary class) Wouldn't mind it though, much less of a grind then doing FoW/UW 1million times.

When you do most of the skill quests the first time around they usually give you a skill from both prefessions. Not all but most. All it would take is for them to allow the quests that do offer secondary skills to be repeatable once you accept a new secondary.

If they did it this way, I'd give those quests another run myself just for the heck of it... I did enjoy alot of them.

to my knowledge, and I did check all towns and outposts, there are very few one proffesion only quests. And all of the quests where you get one skill from both proffesions are not available once you do them the first time even if you switch secondaries. I would be fine with doing more quests just for one proffesion to unlock a decent amount of skills and be able to have some options. Fine with them letting me slave away in FoW.UW if I just HAVE to have them all or something. By all means let me work somewhat for it, just don't make have to spend 24/7 leveling to get a few skills.