Roleplaying Chat

I've seen a lot of questions about roleplaying in Guild Wars in various forums, and suggestions for ways to facilitate it. I'm a roleplayer myself, and I'd love to see some features implemented that would make it easy for roleplayers to find each other and play together without bugging non-RP'ers with IC spam in towns, or having to convince the devs to implement something that would take too much time away from core issues.

So, here's my suggestion. Something like it may have been suggested before, but if it has, I can't find it. What I would propose, is a sort of "IC chat mode". It would be toggled off by default, and would have to be turned on in the options menu. Once turned on, the "All" channel would be blocked in towns, and replaced with a "Say" channel that would work more like the say command in a typical mmorpg. Anything you said would only be broadcast to players in the immediate vicinity, and maybe the words would display above their heads (toggleable). In addition, while in this "RP mode" you'd see a flag over anyone's head who was also using it. This would keep RP spam out of everyone else's way, and allow RP'ers to easily identify each other. Taking away the ability to monitor the "All" channel would simply be a way to discourage people who didn't want to roleplay from entering RP mode. You'd still get the occasional griefer who'd toggle it on just to annoy people, but I don't think they'd last long, since they'd likely just end up being ignored and would get tired of crippling their chat.

And there you have it. RP is kept out of sight from everyone who doesn't want to see it, and roleplayers have an easy way to find and chat with each other in town without having to see everything else. What do you think?

Also, I've always wanted to see some sort of searchable "profile" feature in GW, with options to set info about yourself such as "PvPer" or "PvEer" or "RPer" "Currently Looking for Guild" etc. as well as a way to describe yourself. This would make it easy to find and meet exactly the kind of players you're looking for.

why not have anet just add a district for RP? you'll get the biggest concentration of like-minded people and only have to deal with the hopefully occasional griefers. this makes it easy for anet by avoiding the additional filters and any special flagging of characters. it could be easily (i think) implemented and might draw more roleplayers to the game.

-Jerry

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard,
sleep hard, grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em!" -Webb Wilder

I thought of that, actually, and remember discussing it with some other people, but is it possible then thought that RP chat like this might be easier to implement. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like a simpler idea. The easier something is to do, the more likely it is to get done.

Plus, a communication command with a limited range would be better for roleplaying since it would allow people to have individual conversations without the use of seperate channels and I think something like this would be a lot less likely to attract griefers. Another district is just another district, no matter what kind of label you put on it, and it would probably end up being not much different from the others, in the end. But creating an RP channel that's more restrictive than the normal channel (with the limited range, and the shutting out of "All") would probably be something that almost no one other than roleplayers would want to bother with for long.

OK, i see what you mean. i think your point about the district just becoming another district is accurate, especially since the game will probably dump anyone into the district at the end of a mission or if they are jumping from point to point. not a lot of discrimination there that i could tell from the BWE.

-Jerry

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard,
sleep hard, grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em!" -Webb Wilder

Well if it's a separate district group like the International Districts, it wouldn't work that way. You'd have to select it to get in there, and it would keep returning you there once you chose it once (at least until you chose to leave it).

I think that would be the best implementation. I know it was kinda wierd and even a bit funny to see the RPers in normal chat between the trading chatting.

Myself, I love RPing, but always thought the idea of RPing in text was a joke. The more I see it, the more I think that. RPing to me has always been a voice relative thing. If you can't talk to the other RPer it doesn't work. Voice comms would be required at a minimum for it to work, but of course this is the internet and so many of the female RPers are likely "odd" males (for lack of a better term) that someone setting up an RP Teamspeak or Ventrillo server and getting reasonable participation is highly unlikely.

It's funny you should say that, because most of the RP'ers I've run across seem to think the exact opposite. They're of the opinion that voice completely ruins roleplaying because it destroys the illusion, and that text is the only good way to go about it.

Anyway, whether you have to select the RP districts seperately or not, I still think they'd end up becoming just like the others before long, because they operate just like the others. Making it an actual seperate chade mode that's more limited than the normal one would better prevent people who don't want to roleplay from abusing it. Plus, the way "All" chat works in towns just isn't very good for RP. Seeing everyone in town talking at once, no matter where they are, just isn't going to work when people are going to want to have seperate conversations in different locations all over the city.

On top of all that, it's probably the simplest thing to implement, which would increase the likelhood of it actually being put in.

[SIZE=3]As in reality where it is impossible to speak to everyone in your city (hopefully ! can you imagine that !), i agree that a voice range limit would increase the role play feeling

However, I think that even if Arena Net implement a viable trade system, the "all" chat mode cannot be thrown away and replaced by that "limited range" chat mode you are talking.

In fact, the "all" chat mode can be very useful in cities. For example, it is very funny for a french speaking person as I am to be able to ask an entire city (as Ascalon or Lion's Arch) if there is other french players who would like to chat with me, to team up, and so forth.

Of course, Arena Net could maybe just add a new tab in the chat. So you would have : All - Area - Team - Guild tabs. But if every french people are actually in "Area" mode, how will I find them then? Who will hear me? Nobody.

While playing missions, it happens quite often that some people get lost, and sometimes you dont see them on the minimap. So, imagine you are lost, you want to get help or want to find your teamates, but nobody hear you because every other players are in "area" chat mode.... That kind of moments are confusing enough....

Anyway. Some would say: If you are lost it is normal that you cannot be heard. This is true Role Play. Next time, try to stay grouped, try to stay near.

I'd answer to it we dont want to loose people while involved in missions. As this game is an instanced one, when you start a mission, you hope everyone will stay in. With an "area'" chat mode, I think there is chance your team can be separated and you see players quit the game because they were tired of being lost.

But anyway, I think this area chat feature is a good enough idea to spend some time wondering how it could be added.

Sorry for the long text, maybe I'd better go write some novel or something . [/SIZE]

The idea wouldn't be to replace "All" with the limited range chat, but to have a certain chat mode you could toggle on that would block out "All" when you go into it. Yes, "All" has plenty of uses, but if you want to use it, you can choose to keep the limited range chat toggled off. The limited range would only be for when you want to roleplay. The reason for blocking out "All" while it's on would be to keep people who don't really want to roleplay from using it.

As for missions, I don't think this would need to be implemented outside of towns. If you're in a private instance with other roleplayers, there's no one around to interrupt you, so there's no real reason to have a system that blocks out "All". Cities and outposts would be the only place that something like this would really be needed.

I like the thought of area chat. There were times when I was separated from my party,permenently, because they needed to map to town. If they were on a area channel, that transended districts, we would have been able to find each other again.
Also, perhaps they will implement a /disband command. Just because you need to trade or unload your inventory, you should not automatically be disbanded from your group.

I like your idea a lot Lunarhound. I posted a similar suggestion in the suggestions forum a couple of days ago. I think it would greatly enhance the role playing aspects of the game. As it stands right now, the role playing is difficult if impossible due to the area wide chat system.

I agree that there should be a seperate "role playing tab". That way people who want to roleplay can do so without the constant interruptions or people trading and sending out thousands of dance emotes. The people that want to role play can just go to the role play tab, and the people that don't want to can just stay on the "All" tab. Both parties are happy and both have ways to enhance their play style.

Vaelin

Ok for the mission, we would not need that feature there.

I am coming back with my precedent example:

Since it is an international game, I am german (for example) and there are three other german people inside the city. I dont speak a word of english. So finding german people is an important issue for me. The three other german people are at the opposite side of the city, they play together, and they all have the "area" chat mode toggled 'on', they are trading with NPCs. So the fact is : I have to run all around the city, holding "I am german do you want to play with me" sentence over my head, hoping to be seen. Is the role play enhancement worth it? Is it better to live situations of that sort instead of suffering the "all" chat mode?

Could we maybe find another way to improve the "all" chat mode? Maybe just remove the /emotes from being written in the chat would help. Maybe to put an easy feature to silence sellers and buyers? Maybe the expected new trade system will completely clean the chat ?

I am just trying to fuel the debate.

[COLOR=DarkRed]Or, you know, as it existed in Diablo II (remember the "!" in chat if you ever played), what if I simply get a message over the head when I type "&" (or anything else) before my message?[/COLOR]

Actually, if I remember well, "!" is all mode, "#" is team mode, and what is the guild one? "@"?

For example, I am in "all" chat mode, but I type "&Is there any german people here to play with me? (free translation from German ) So you get a message in chat that everybody can read, but you also get that sentence over the head, so that a German player near you can see your message over you head?

You could either type "!& your message"
and why not "#& your message" : a team message plus message over head
and "@& your message" : a guild only message with message over head.

O please devs please give me that "message over head" feature, pleeeeeeeeaaaaazzzzzzzzz!

That would be great assuming you can still toggle this on or off. Though it might still get confusing if there are too many. But overall a verrrrrrrry good idea.

Is the language thing really an issue? I was under the impression that you could choose to go to districts containing people who all have the same language settings as you.

Even if that isn't the case (yet) there are ways around it. Have a player's language setting display on mouseover, or even allow a "language flag" toggle. There are plenty of possible ways to show what language people are speaking and still be able to implement something like this.

A flag language or something like that is an interesting idea.

Actually the international districts are mostly inhabited. Each time a tried to go to an international one of course. I have my own language setting turned to french, but my char is automatically directed into "local" places.

Will it be different in the release version?

The language problem have been touched upon in another thread about listening/non listening players : http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342

Anyway I like it very much, the idea of being able to put words over my head. The sentence could maybe be readable only from predetermined distance, for example 50 feet.

/!& bye bye!

Anyone heard anything about the translation software for Guild Wars Jeff Strain talked about in the Filefront interview?
He said something about chat being translated from german/french and so on to english or vice versa.

Taken from filefront:
Q: So a guy talkin’ crap in French will be translated into English?

A: That’s… yeah. We’ll do auto-translation. But that required a substantial amount of engineering work on our behalf right up front. So we spent a good couple of years building all of these technologies that we needed to pull this off. And then of course we turned our focus to the game content itself. We built an absolutely world class art team and world class design team. We have James Finney who was the lead designer of Starcraft, and have spent the last couple of years bringing the gameplay into existence around all this technology.

Sorry about the slightly off topic.

I was not aware of that auto-translation feature Efilon. What a fantastic thing if it works well!

Yes, we heard of it - the interview is utter crap and not true at all, they were never planing on making a translation tool.

I'm a huge roleplay geek, I'm involved in a few DnD campaigns right now. I've tried roleplaying in MMORPG's before and just find the experience too limiting. I'm definitely not opposed to anyone trying to RP in this game and if you can find a way to do it, by all means go ahead. I've just always found myself disapointed because my character is so limited.

The only game I've ever been able to play and feel like I'm roleplaying is NeverWinter Nights since you can have a DM running a campaign. To me nothing will ever beat pen and paper role playing. I've accepted Guild Wars as what it is. However if you can find some great roleplaying in it, let me know and I'll give it a shot.

How so? I've tried roleplaying in every MMO I've dabbled in, and with great success. Well, apart from Final Fantasy XI. You know what the FF fanbase is like. "HAHA LOL ROLEPLAY LOLLERGAY I LVL NOW," usually spammed by someone with a name like Sephirothx. Or Cloudstrifex. Or Cloudsephirothx. You get the idea. Rant over. But how is your character limited? Your character has no limitations, beyond appearance. What you say ingame, what your actions are defines your character, not your height or profession combination.

I just feel limited based on what the game gives me. I had some success in EQ way back when because the game was open, but I still couldn't effect anything in the universe really. I feel even more limited with that in this game as we're pretty much on rails. Yes, I can go through the explorable areas, but that's all. I can do the missions, but roleplaying with great immersion is a little tough in this game. I can't go to a bar and get drunk, I can't pick up women, I can't be the evil guy, I can't be the rebel, or overthrow an evil king (unless it's designed in a mission.)

I think it's very hard to get an immersion near the level of immersion I can get in a pen and paper game without having a human DM running a game.

I roleplay. I like it. It's something I do.

However, having said that, I would never roleplay on GW. Too many players to properly RP. If you want to roleplay, go buy Neverwinter Nights, or wait for NWN 2 or Dragon's Age. Much more intuitive to role playing. If you have NWN ... I can show you a few really good PWs. (Seriously. PM me.)

GW just isn't the right kind of game for RP, it holds your hand too much.

~Firax

I disagree. Although I think NWN is geared a little more toward roleplaying, I think there is still great potential to do so in GW as well. I've played NWN for 3 years, and although it is a great game, very little new content has been added and tilesets are very limiting.

I don't think roleplaying can be determined just from the type of game you are playing. Sure GW is a little more hack and slash, but roleplaying is what you make of it. If you play with a large group of like minded people the possibilities are endless. Some of the best role playing I've participated in was between the players with no GM intervention.

I just feel that since GW is trying to cater to many different play-styles, then they should add in ways to enhance both styles. That way if your main focus is PVP, then go for it, but if you are interested in role-play, then steps should be taken to enhance that style of play as well.

Vaelin

I feel the same way. There are going to be people who want to roleplay here, regardless of whether everyone feels it's the right sort of game for it or not, so why not implement a few things to facilitate that play style?

It's my opinion that there is quite a bit of roleplaying potential in Guild Wars. No, it's not nearly as free form as pen and paper gaming, but I don't necessarily adhere to the idea that good roleplaying has to be based on how many choices you have. Good roleplaying is about how you work with the material you're given to immerse yourself in a fictional persona or setting. While, on one hand, GW's storyline may have us more or less "on rails" once a new chapter's released, we can grab the story we're given and play it out, In Character, to the best of our abilities. An ongoing storyline in an ever-evolving world that actually changes and responds to what we do has incredible potential. You simply have to adopt a roleplaying method that's a bit more reactive than proactive. It may not be to every RPer's taste, and that's fine, but good roleplaying is definately possible.

We interrupt this regular scheduled post for an outburst:

Very little new content? VERY little NEW content?! O.O Are we playing the same NWN here? The community for NWN the biggest thing I've every SEEN, you can get a hakpack for practically anything you've ever DREAMED of. And some of the fan made mods seriously kick ass.

Back to our regularly scheduled post.

So there is not misunderstandings, I completely agree with this part however...

I disagree. Roleplaying lives and dies on the very fact that you DO indeed have choices. The more the better. When you don't have choices, every character becomes a shadow caster by the Vision of the Main Character as seen by the Developers. It essentially forces you into a plot role - In Single player, this is fine since it's only you... But when EVERYONE is a shadow of the Vision, it becomes nigh impossible to tell the difference between characters. And even if you try to beak the Vision, the plot will force you back into the Vision. This kind of thing doesn't bode well for RP.

While I agree with ever-evolving... It doesn't respond to what we do, as the little people, but to what We do, the collective groups of many little people unknowingly moving, ultimately, towards the same goal.

Yes. To the best of out abilities. This comes back to being forced into The Vision.

Yes, but... Isn't RPing all about proactivity at one point or another? Even if you play a recluse, you the player still need to be proactive to get into the character in the first place. I would respectfully disagree with you - Proactivity is to Roleplay what oxygen is to flame.

~Firax

I simply can't agree here. While a certain amonut of proactivity is always required, the availability of limitless choices is not. I've seen too much evidence to the contrary. I've seen and experienced some amazing roleplay in worlds such as DAoC or World of Warcraft, where extremely proactive behaviour is simply not possible, as the world is almost completely static. Nothing can change unless the developers want it to. The goblins will always be attacking this city, no matter how many people complete the quest to turn them back, and Atlantis will always have "just been discovered". Some roleplayers simply can't thrive in an enviroment like this, and that's understandable, but it doesn't mean that good roleplaying can't take place. You ignore the inconsistencies and make do with what you have. Having plenty of options definately makes things far more interesting, but the lack of them doesn't make good RP impossible.

In my view, Guild Wars is a step up from games like DAoC and WoW in terms of roleplaying potential. Instead of a completely static world where things are added sometimes but nothing really changes, you have a world with an evolving story. This and heavy instancing even lets us pretend to be heroes who matter, if we want to. Things are added and things change. Perhaps the story runs more or less on rails, but there's a story nonetheless and, while we may not really be the ones moving it, we can pretend to be, if we're willing to slip in character and make an effort.

A game of endless choices would make the best roleplaying enviroment, no question there. But it's not the only enviroment in which good RP can flourish. In the end, I simply think of roleplaying as being "In Character". Reacting as if you're actually in the fictional world your character inhabits. I can do that quite well whether I really have a choice in the way things turn out or not. I've been doing it for years now, as have my friends and guildmates. I'm definately not trying to say that GW is the best enviroment for RP, but it does have potential for those who want to take advantage of it and can live with the limitations. That being the case, I think some features to accomodate roleplaying wouldn't be at all out of place.

Well, we seem to have reached an impasse then: I cannot sway you to my side, and you cannot sway me (at least not with the arguments you and I have present thus far) .

However, some things to consider:

How do you explain RPingly:

1. Repeating the same Mission, in which everyone is doing the same thing.

2. Instant map travel. How come when you walk you get attacked by creatures but when you use the map (Which RPingly is exactly same as walking) and don't get attacked?

3. Getting to the Guild Hall or the Arena. Loin's Arc doesn't have a port, and has all of 2 ships. It would cost a fortune.

4. Going back to Loin's Arc over and over even after you are deemed a rebel. And similar plot holes.







And why do you need special features geared towards you when you seem to using your imagination so fully already to fill in these holes for your character(s)?

Let it be known that I'm not completely against RPing in GW... I'm slowly writing a fanfic starring 2 of my characters. But in writing it I have striped many of the game's elements out from the World elements. They wear rings, but no SoCs, instead they find charms on enemies. No insta travel. Any cities thet visit will be cities... with people (My biggest gripe with GW is the cities look like very pretty outposts, not cities at all).

~Firax

I don't. And I don't need to. I deal with the incongruities, and work with them as best I can.

When repeating missions, I either act as if I haven't done it before, or don't roleplay in that particular quest, depending on the preferences of everyone in the group.

In the case of instant map travel, I don't see the need to explain anything at all. If your party uses instant travel to get to a city, you simply act as if you've traveled there normally. If you travel there seperately from your party, they simply act as if you've left. Nothing incredibly difficult about that. So your avatar has suddenly vanished... So what? Suspend disbelief for a moment.

Getting to the guild hall and arena? Costs associated? Who cares? Again, simply suspend disbelief. Skirt the incongruities as best you can or, if you prefer, make something up.

Again, I'm not denying that GW isn't the ideal game for the world's most perfect roleplaying experience. But you seem to be of the opinion that good RP can't flourish at all unless everything fits together perfectly, like a jigsaw puzzle and the player is provided with limitless options. Not only does it exist, I've been participating in it for years. Yes, there are things that are difficult to explain IC. So what? You deal with them, and ingore them when you can, concentrating on the things that really matter.

As for my willingness to suspend disbelief negating the need for any roleplaying features, that's silly. I may be willing to make allowances where I have to, because of how the game is designed, but that doesn't mean that I can't or shouldn't suggest features that I feel would aid and enhance the roleplaying experience. Especially when they're as simple as adding a new, slightly modified type of chat channel in town.

Yes we are playing the same game, but all the "community" content I've seen isn't up to par with what the developers have done. Also I play on a 56k modem so I really don't have the time to wait three days to download a hak that is 70Mb so I can get content that should have been in the game to begin with (believe me if DSL or cable modems were available in my area I would be the first to jump at the offer....but it isn't an option where I live).

I don't necessarily think that to roleplay you need full reign of all the content to still be imaginative and come up with a good story line. In fact, I think it helps to have an underlying story that allows you to focus the main purpose of your character in the first place. The roleplay comes from the detailed histories and relationships you create for your character. Where they came from? Who their family was? Why are they in Ascalon? Were they born here, or did they travel from a far off land to aid the people in their struggle against the Charr?

Sure there may be inconsistencies, such as having to repeat the same mission, but to me it isn't any different then having a roleplay character in another MMORPG who camps a certain monster not because of role play reasons, but because it gives the best XP.

The only special feature I think needs to be added is a way to talk to people only in your immediate vicinity, while filtering out the rabble that you don't want to hear. Personally I don't need anyone to help me roleplay, but what I do need is a method that allows me to roleplay more effectively. The system that is set up presently (the area wide chat) makes it virtually impossible to accomplish something as simple as having an "In Character Conversation." Using my imagination isn't the problem, the problem stems from the fact that I can't speak to someone else without having 50 messages about buying/trading items, or 50 dance emotes by some bored 12 year olds, or the chat window being filled by LEWT, I PWN JU, LVL, LOLOL, etc. Simply impossible to carry on a roleplay discussion with this in the background. A filter or a separate roleplay tab would eliminate this problem and make things more enjoyable for both play styles.

Vaelin

When I used to play in rp guilds in EQ and DAoC we pretty much created our own content around what was happening in the world. My only complaing about rp in guildwars is that my normal character I play would have told off Prince Rurik at one point and had a long interaction with him had this been pen and paper. I'm not given options like that. Yes, things can still be done and truth be told I'd love to try them with anyone who wants to.

It just kind of kills my immersion when it's in a video game like this. Is it impossible, certainly not, just a little tougher.

It's not ideal, but you can just use your imagination to circumvent that. If you're not the party leader, you're never shown talking, and then there's the gap between when the end-mission cutscene and the next mission which is just a blank slate you can fill in yourself. Just because you get dragged along with Rurik, doesn't mean your character has to believe in him (I know mine doesn't). In fact, there's nothing stopping you from giving the brat a seeing-to during the travel from the Wall to Fort Ranik.

There is a difference between 'text over head', 'RP tab' and 'filter' in my mind. The problem of roleplay tab or filter is that you may miss an important message sent by other people in town. For example : "Hey guys, les patriotes, a guild from Quebec, is the new leader in the guild ladder!!!! We got to kill those french fried chickens!!!" (I am a patriotes member) Even if I RP, I may be interested in keeping an eye on 'all' tab. This is why I would prefer a 'text over head' feature than a RP tab or any kind of filter thing.

Who cares about a over-crowded-spammed 'all' chat if you talk with your RP gang with 'text over head', sitting around somewhere in Lion's Arch? Just avoid reading the chat and keep your attention focussed on the text appearing over your buddies heads.

/& This is an opinion, not objective truth.

Yes, if you're in a seperate RP chat mode that blocks "All" you may miss messages you'd want to see. That's part of the point.

If you really want to see those messages, then you'll have to choose not to RP. If people are forced to choose between the two, then there's a much greater chance that only people who want to roleplay will enter the RP chat. It should be limited for that very reason. If you can keep it turned on and still see "All" it destroys part of the purpose.

Trade, guild, etc. should remain enabled, I think. People should still be able to do business while roleplaying. The "All" channel, however, is not necessary. A choice between the two is perfectly acceptable.