A quick question regarding criticism which focuses on spelling and grammar

Hiawatha

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

19 Aug 2005 at 23:31 - 1

Hullo, it's me again! I'm still busy trying to get a feel for the community here, and, while munching on old threads, I was struck by a somewhat surprising realisation. Criticising someone primarily for flawed grammar and spelling seems to be an accepted practice here! I have yet to see a single person ask for clarification before slamming a poster with a derogatory and condescending comment about lack of experience, slurs about low mental age, etc--indeed, in most cases it appears the critics have clearly understood what the other poster was trying to say with his faulty grammar and spelling, making clarification unnecessary.

My only questions is a--perhaps very naïve, but still sincere--"Why?"

Cheers

-- P

Lasareth

Aquarius

Join Date: Jun 2005

Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place

19 Aug 2005 at 23:41 - 2

Mostly because misspelled posts are often completely illegible.

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

19 Aug 2005 at 23:43 - 3

Because someone who doesn't bother to watch what he types actively chooses to disrespect both the forum rules (calling for people to write proper English) and the readers browsing this forum (since he/she apparently doesn't care enough to take the extra minute required to type properly).

Grammar-bashing usually doesn't occur unless the offense is glaringly obvious coupled with a thoroughly braindead post though, such as people using Internet shorthand (you -> u) or give the impression they're typing with their tongue (words typed that seem a random re-hashing of the intended word) while claiming their build ROX when it's painfully obvious that it doesn't.

wolfy3455

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

19 Aug 2005 at 23:45 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiawatha

-- P When theres fansites for different languages and you choose to use an english language site, its going to be assumed that you know english to the extent others can understand you. No one is asking for everyone to have doctorates in various areas of the language, but its nice to be able to understand people. Theres also the rule about it.

Ultimate_Gaara

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

BC, Canada.. how aboot that eh?

19 Aug 2005 at 23:46 - 5

Hiawatha

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

19 Aug 2005 at 23:51 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

Mostly because misspelled posts are often completely illegible.

But this is patently untrue.

The English language can take a great deal of abuse, and even the most inane posts on these forums tend to make sense, on the whole.

And illegibility should prompt a request for clarification, shouldn't it?

Quote: Originally Posted by Silmor Because someone who doesn't bother to watch what he types actively chooses to disrespect both the forum rules (calling for people to write proper English) and the readers browsing this forum (since he/she apparently doesn't care enough to take the extra minute required to type properly). This I understand, but what I don't understand is why this merits a harsh insulting response. The mods are dedicated and police these forums quite well from what I've seen, so the only conclusion I can draw is that some people get a kick outta pointing out how far beneath them others are.

Which is kinda redundant when arguing with inane spammers

Quote:

Grammar-bashing usually doesn't occur unless the offense is glaringly obvious coupled with a thoroughly braindead post though, such as people using Internet shorthand (you -> u) Oh come now, that's quite possibly the most harmless example of modern internet shorthand you coulda chosen.

Quote:

or give the impression they're typing with their tongue (words typed that seem a random re-hashing of the intended word) while claiming their build ROX when it's painfully obvious that it doesn't. Perhaps it doesn't occur except in the case of extraordinarily retarded posts, but even then it's baffling. Your final sentence implies that the retarded post is understood and critiqued, which makes the preceding sentence little more than an aesthetic offense, one which the mods will deal with anyway.

Is this perhaps another form of PvP?

<3

I'm just curious, is all.

Hiawatha

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

19 Aug 2005 at 23:56 - 7

Par'n the double posting, but these were posted while I was typing

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

When theres fansites for different languages and you choose to use an english language site, its going to be assumed that you know english to the extent others can understand you. No one is asking for everyone to have doctorates in various areas of the language, but its nice to be able to understand people. Theres also the rule about it.

Agreed on all counts. I've yet to come across an instance of such an extremely untidy post, and I still don't get why that rule should require me or anyone else to be down-right brutal towards another poster!

Btw, this is one of the best fansites around, you can't blame people for wanting to be a part of it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

Well it has been proven as long as the first part of the word has been spelt right most people know what it is right away (or something like that).. but i always find it nice to read a well written post, not "lol lyke hw du u b infused".. it just looks better when everthing is looks pretty.. if you don't know how to spell something then look it up on google, or use a diffrent word.. thats what i do Once again, agreed. But I find posts with offensive content (by which I mean, for example, an extremely off-putting condescending tone) at least as offensive. Different strokes for different folks, I guess

-- P

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

20 Aug 2005 at 00:18 - 8

There is a forum guideline about not using things like 'net' speak and trying to make your post understandable in the adopted language of the forum, which happens to be English. I would have voted for coherency as well but probably wouldn't have had it accepted.

As for the offensive posts, that is something I feel quite strongly about and try to clean up threads where things get out of hand. By and large, however, I think that things here are much more civil than most of the fansites that I've visited since becoming involved with the Guildwars community. That said, there are still strongly stated opinions here that are left intact for the simple reason that all voices need to be heard and it's not our business to silence one side or another.

*shrugs* It's a tightrope that this community walks and, speaking only for my moderator self, there's no pleasing everyone. If you delete "offensive" posts, you're crabbed at for so doing. If you -don't- delete "offensive" posts, you're crabbed at for so doing.

And, as much as I hate to tell you this, Hiawatha, there's also a forum guideline about double "2-in-a-row" posts.

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

20 Aug 2005 at 00:22 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiawatha

Oh come now, that's quite possibly the most harmless example of modern internet shorthand you coulda chosen. I don't consider the "you -> u" shorthand harmless by any stretch. You save two bloody characters from your typing. Two. It's not even quicker, it's simply stupid, and using it on a forum where you have all the bloody time in the world to write, preview and even edit your post is just a glaring display of disrespect for the people you want to read your post.

What I meant with the 'combo' was that it's both the horrible writing and the horrible content that tick people off to the point where they start to make fun of a person. Someone who makes lots of typos but asks an honest question or conveys a respectable opinion won't see any flak, someone who posts something stupid in a correct and intelligible fashion will get the content of his post critiqued, but only if both factors fail will people criticize his writing style.

Why do people take the effort to criticize? I think it's a form of forum-defense - they want this forum to be good, and anyone who doesn't take the time to form a comprehensive argument let alone write properly will just bring the quality of the forum down. If life can be made miserable for them to the point of them leaving - great.

Hiawatha

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

20 Aug 2005 at 00:41 - 10

That I can understand, but I just feel like such hostility tarnishes the forum for everyone. It's quite possible to deal with even the most offensive threads peacefully. You can aggravate a troublemaker more by smacking him with the tao te ching than the OED

I agree, it's a fine line to walk, esp. for the mods. A good community should be able to "police" itself, or at least to manage its own good cheer, and most GW communities haven't been around long enough to have that level of stability yet. I'm sure it'll come soon

But until then, I don't think a more new-age inspired counter to flawed grammar and aggressive behaviour would be amiss!

Cheers!

-- P

EDIT: I fail to see how your explanation justifies calling "u" an example of harmful shorthand. The simple truth is that it doesn't harm you, it offends you, and often unnecessarily so. Rules or no rules

Lasareth

Aquarius

Join Date: Jun 2005

Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place

20 Aug 2005 at 01:01 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiawatha

But this is patently untrue.

The English language can take a great deal of abuse, and even the most inane posts on these forums tend to make sense, on the whole. I don't criticize those I can understand. But honestly, try spending more than 5 minutes trying to figure something like this out.

Hiawatha

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

20 Aug 2005 at 01:33 - 12

Hmm, yes, all I got from it was that he thinks the bonuses are too good, and possibly that everyone should have similarly powerful stats :-S