Skill changes? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tigris Of Gaul

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 02:26 - 1

http://pc.ign.com/articles/644/644916p1.html

Vwoss

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Leader of Communist Communist Revolution (CCR)

25 Aug 2005 at 02:28 - 2

This will redefine pvp. AS. WE. KNOW. IT.

Or maybe not.

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

25 Aug 2005 at 02:33 - 3

*if thats true*

they were bound to nerf NR but now i think spirits are... useless...

not to mention conflag/winter wont be happening anymore

the only change i really like is draw conditions. those emos that spiked with it was a lil broken....

and lemme guess.. now more than one person has to bring putrid to the tombs.. and skills like well of the profane can actually work

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

25 Aug 2005 at 02:48 - 4

Yep. Making spirits not affect each other is just dumb.

nohooiam

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Forsaken Sanctuary

Mo/Me

25 Aug 2005 at 02:49 - 6

boy, if they got rid of stacking spirit effects, a lot of people's heads are gonna EXPLODE.

Lasareth

Aquarius

Join Date: Jun 2005

Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place

25 Aug 2005 at 02:51 - 7

So it would seem now that the only way to discharge an enchant-ridden player is multiple removal spells or lingering curse o.o

The maintenance doubling is a good idea though... makes a lot of maintaining spells (coughmendingcough) not worth it at all now.

Mysterial

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Servants of Fortuna

E/Me

25 Aug 2005 at 03:13 - 8

Kinda confusing about the spirits: First it says "Now when you cast a Spirit, all other allied spirits within the newly cast Spirit's range are destroyed." but later it says "also, when a Spirit is cast, it destroys all other allied Spirits of the same type within its range"

If the first is true, I think it's overkill, if the second is, then I think it's good.

Larry the Hippo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hippo Guild

W/Mo

25 Aug 2005 at 03:16 - 9

DBW is great for keeping a monk/me/ele well dsitracted and kept out of the battle.

maybe i missed it, but i didnt see anything about maintenance or mending.

Bast

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 03:17 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

The maintenance doubling is a good idea though... makes a lot of maintaining spells (coughmendingcough) not worth it at all now.

I know the 4 pips Mending gives is godly, but dropping an NR to counter it? Isn't that excessive?

---

I'm fairly sure the spirits will be changed to only kill allied spirits of the same type when they drop, allowing you to have different ones up, but only one of each. Limiting it to only one ritual at a time would be pretty dumb.

Tuna

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dark Horizons

25 Aug 2005 at 03:29 - 11

Only having one spirit of each type down is going to make them pretty useless imo. I guess we'll have to see. I'd also like to know where the enchant/hex removal buff is

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

25 Aug 2005 at 03:29 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

they were bound to nerf NR but now i think spirits are... useless...

I don't agree with this at all. You simply need to use them tactically now instead of just spamming them everywhere and daring your opponent to try and kill them all. Positioning a Zephyr around a corner well behind your party? Just as viable as ever. It's a pretty radical change to how they're normally used now, but I think it's for the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

the only change i really like is draw conditions. those emos that spiked with it was a lil broken....

Well that's the change that's really a head scratcher. A 1 second cooldown? All spells have a .75 second aftercast, so Draw Conditions could only be used once per second before. With this change, it can only be used once every 1.25 seconds. If you mix in RoF like many of the better Smiting builds already did, then you can only cast a Draw/RoF/Draw chain once every 3.25 seconds instead of every 3 seconds like you could before, leading to a remarkable 7.7% drop in DPS.

I seriously wonder if whoever made that change actually knows how their game works. Smiters gained more from Nature's Renewal getting smashed than this 'nerf'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

They took some advice on the fire line, but they buffed the wrong skills-Meteor and Fireball were already good. They need to pay attention to stuff like Searing Heat and Lava Font.

Seriously. The biggest problems with most of the Elementalist lines is that they're so shallow as far as playable damage skills goes. Fire had, what, Fireball, Meteor, and Meteor Shower as good skills? Air had Chain, Strike, Orb. Earth has Obs. Flame. Water has Trident and Maelstrom. There's just far too much downtime when you're sitting there wanding. Elementalist skills, for whatever reason, just tend to suck horribly. Warrior skills hit harder and they have decent DPS in between skill uses - Rangers have fast recharges so they can fire off skills nonstop. Elementalists? Echo that Meteor Shower then go take a piss, it isn't like you're going to be doing much of anything while it recharges.

Until the Elementalist starts to get filled out Smiting is going to remain the best element.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

While their fixing Panic, they need to make it public that the ranges on skill descriptions are misleading. For some reason I have a feeling Panic is going to be Ward range.

I get the feeling too. It makes me all tingly.

Peace,
-CxE

Lasareth

Aquarius

Join Date: Jun 2005

Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place

25 Aug 2005 at 03:29 - 13

Not really one specifically to counter it. But if there is one out, and you have a spell like mending or prot bond or anything maintainable, it pretty much becomes a wasted slot. That is if spirit teams still use NR after the change. Mending I used as an example because it's the most well-known PvP maint spell

People tend to think reactionary here, instead of preventative...

---
---

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

I know the 4 pips Mending gives is godly, but dropping an NR to counter it? Isn't that excessive?

---

I'm fairly sure the spirits will be changed to only kill allied spirits of the same type when they drop, allowing you to have different ones up, but only one of each. Limiting it to only one ritual at a time would be pretty dumb.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 03:41 - 14

So now that NR is being nerfed, and long casting mass enchant removals are going to get dshotted/dchopped/incendiaried, how is one expected to dethrone a respecced hold build with mass enchants on the hero? 1 ranger per disenchanter, and your hero remains happily invincible.

Rend enchantments? klol interrupt.
Lingering curse? klol interrupt.

1s cast strip? Well, ok now that you removed that...guardian....you still have yet to chew through the mark, seed, life barrier, aegis, shield of deflection, oh and we threw in a healing breeze for spite, not to mention Symbiosis is up, and our hero has 999,999,999 life.

thekolman

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 03:48 - 16

I'm hoping they will buff up enchantment removal as well, they just neglected to mention it in their list.

Morganas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 03:49 - 17

The part about spirits is confusing, the paragraph above says spirits destroy all allied spirits in range, but the bulleted list of changes says they only destroy spirits of the same type within their range.

I'm guessing the second one is correct, in which case this is only a good thing.

Morganas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 03:53 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

So now that NR is being nerfed, and long casting mass enchant removals are going to get dshotted/dchopped/incendiaried, how is one expected to dethrone a respecced hold build with mass enchants on the hero? 1 ranger per disenchanter, and your hero remains happily invincible.

Rend enchantments? klol interrupt.
Lingering curse? klol interrupt.

1s cast strip? Well, ok now that you removed that...guardian....you still have yet to chew through the mark, seed, life barrier, aegis, shield of deflection, oh and we threw in a healing breeze for spite, not to mention Symbiosis is up, and our hero has 999,999,999 life.

You know there are two mesmer stances that deal with just this problem, and anyone who's casting spells as pivotal as enchant removal has no excuse not to take them.

Jormund

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2005

Michigan

25 Aug 2005 at 03:59 - 19

This is just a taste of things remember, so more to come. I'm crossing my fingers hoping that Otyugh's Cry somehow becomes one of the most powerful skills ever! (j/k)

Kaylee Ann

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 03:59 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

For some reason I have a feeling Panic is going to be Ward range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I get the feeling too. It makes me all tingly.

My mesmer is the happiest person alive atm.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 03:59 - 21

Quote:

Chain Lightning: increased cast time to 3 seconds; decreased damage to 10..85; lowered maximum distance between targets

The value on GWG is 10...82, so...isn't that a damage increase?

Zelc

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:01 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

So now that NR is being nerfed, and long casting mass enchant removals are going to get dshotted/dchopped/incendiaried, how is one expected to dethrone a respecced hold build with mass enchants on the hero? 1 ranger per disenchanter, and your hero remains happily invincible.

Rend enchantments? klol interrupt.
Lingering curse? klol interrupt.

1s cast strip? Well, ok now that you removed that...guardian....you still have yet to chew through the mark, seed, life barrier, aegis, shield of deflection, oh and we threw in a healing breeze for spite, not to mention Symbiosis is up, and our hero has 999,999,999 life.

Fortunately:

Quote:

Well the list is long, but we've got a taste of things to come today. What we have here is a short list of some of the changes given to us by developer ArenaNet. While it's not everything, it's a start.

I really hope that some of what they haven't revealed is enchantment removal getting buffed.

ICURADik

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:03 - 23

You can still place a Fertile just barely in range of an altar, than put a Zephyr on an opposite side and run uber seed balls. Just stack Spell Breaker, and one more cover enchant to stop chillblains and it's gg noobs.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 04:04 - 24

Yeah, if Rend Enchantments was a 5 energy spell, 1/4s cast with a 5 second recast, I'll jump for joy.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 04:04 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

You can still place a Fertile just barely in range of an altar, than put a Zephyr on an opposite side and run uber seed balls. Just stack Spell Breaker, and one more cover enchant to stop chillblains and it's gg noobs.

Exact-a-fkn-ly.

-edit-
Sorry for the double post

arredondo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:06 - 26

I think the Lightning change is 10-85 at L16. Before it was 10-82 at L12.

Morganas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:07 - 28

Heal ball requires everyone to have an enchant on them, not just the guy with seed on him. EVERYONE would have to have a cover enchant.... maybe OOV or OOP could serve that role.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 04:09 - 29

Cover enchant? Aegis? Chillblains? Pwned? lol k.

-edit-

As for the damage scaling issue, I just worked it out, if chain damage scales evenly from 10 to 85 at 16air, 12 air magic will only deal 85 damage, against 60AL.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 04:13 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Heal ball doesnt require everyone to have an enchantment on them.

True, it only requires the targetted player to have the enchantment, or a chain of enchantments.

I do have a more pressing question as to the ambiguity of the spirit update, though: Is it only 1 spirit per team per radius, or 1 spirit per kind per team per radius?

-edited for ambiguity! :O-

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

25 Aug 2005 at 04:13 - 32

NR is getting nerfed? No decent hex removal?

I'm gonna stack hexes until my enemy explodes (not even hex breaker can save you now fool

)

Kaylee Ann

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:17 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

NR is getting nerfed? No decent hex removal?

I'm gonna stack hexes until my enemy explodes (not even hex breaker can save you now fool

)

I hope you stack hexes until your hearts content. You will end up regretting it in the long run =)

Morganas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:17 - 34

Well, how about countering heal ball with energy denial + NR? Perhaps with some mass necro degen thrown in for good measure.

Jwh6913

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Death Infernal Evil

Mo/R

25 Aug 2005 at 04:21 - 35

ugh I really don't like some of those nerfs

sounds like mesmers and monks worldwide is jumping for joy as their healing balls/anti disenchants will be useful again what's just 1 enchant to the 7 other vital ones? jeez. I like my spirits to work in conjunction. greater conflag/winter anyone? Not to mention it makes hell easier! maybe limit the amounts of spirits you can have out to ~ 3 summoned spirits on the ground for your own team

the elemental fixes sounds plausible- too much spike damage and aoe in chain lighting anyway.

but seeing its anet's decision, I'm not going to bitch and moan about it like a few people do.

ICURADik

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:38 - 36

Heavy Prot monks will also come back into vogue. With Life Barriers and actively casting Life Bonds. Pretty much, ever battle is guaranteed to last 45+ minutes with decent teams involved. IMO I feel a team should be allowed to run uber NR if that's their only spirit.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

25 Aug 2005 at 04:43 - 37

Wait, another question, if the dev interviewed is saying that Fertile Season's gonna last 15...45 seconds, and he's using a 0-16 scale, that means unless you have like...max beast, your fertile's not going to last NEARLY as long as its refresh...

-edit-

And even with max beast (which is a horrid waste of attribute points btw) it's only lasting 3/4ths of its recast, and you can't count QZ into its recast, since it'll be destroyed when fertile comes up.

...so basically, you kind of have to have oath shot in order to keep fertile up, but at the same time it doesn't allow you to spam it either, therefore...yeah.

SYMBIOSIS 4TW, YO!

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

25 Aug 2005 at 04:46 - 38

Well, NR still has its use...enchantments take double energy to maintain. Makes enchant stacking harder to maintain.

Zeru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:51 - 39

Ether Renewal left untouched? Ugh...

ICURADik

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 04:54 - 40

Graphic Representation:
( )=spirit T=spirit spammer [ ]=range of spirit.
(QZ).........................] T
(QZ)..[......................] (FS)T
(QZ)..[...................T ] {Uses Oath Shot}
(QZ)..[......................] T
(QZ)..[......................] (FS)T

Apathetic

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Honolulu

Ying And Yang [YAY]

W/Mo

25 Aug 2005 at 04:55 - 41

I'm defenitly liking what im seeing

I know this will make Pvp much much better and balanced and knowing ANet is right there to make changes, always comforting

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

25 Aug 2005 at 05:02 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

I think they definetly will be more strategic uses of spirits, but at the cost of limiting combinations. They've essentially made them into elite skills with only one being active at a time which limits combinations.

I think that's a typo in their overall description. The specific change listed:

Quote:

All Spirits: Spirit effects no longer affect other Spirits (example: Fertile Season no longer adds Health and armor to other Spirits); also, when a Spirit is cast, it destroys all other allied Spirits of the same type within its range

Which, as I read it, means that if you cast Winter while Greater Conflagration is up, it will only kill all other Winters, not all other spirits on your team. So you can have one spirit per *type*, not one spirit period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

iirc, Izzy uses a 0-16 notation, and GWG uses 0-12. So at 12 Air it will be dealing less than 82 damage from now on.

He uses the 0-15 notation, since 0-15 are the fixed points in the game. Everything else is extrapolated. So damage was effectively nerfed from 10...100 to 10...85 in game, or 10...82 to 10...70 in 0-12 notation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Cover enchant? Aegis? Chillblains? Pwned? lol k.

Yep, Chilblains pulls of one cover enchantment at the low, low cost of 25 energy. Now take off the other cover enchants and dig down to the stuff that starts to matter. Echo Chilblains starts to get interesting, but a single Chilblains hits, right, Aegis, or Dark Fury, or an Order, or some other enchantment that cost us a whole lot less than 25 to put up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

NR is getting nerfed? No decent hex removal?

There has always been decent hex removal - the skill is called Convert Hexes. It was a staple of many of our builds until Nature's Renewal was fixed. Power hex stacking usually only affects one person at a time - Convert Hexes punishes that strategy with a vengeance. When the skills are available to power-hex large sections of the opposing team, I'll take notice.

Peace,
-CxE

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

25 Aug 2005 at 05:03 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Well, NR still has its use...enchantments take double energy to maintain. Makes enchant stacking harder to maintain.

Unless they changed how the maximum degen works, there is still a work around for -10 pip energy degeneration, which also happens to work with alot of enchantments being active at the same time.

Mercury Angel

Avatar of Gwen

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wandering my own road.

25 Aug 2005 at 05:29 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Unless they changed how the maximum degen works, there is still a work around for -10 pip energy degeneration, which also happens to work with alot of enchantments being active at the same time.

This is what I really don't like about that short article-
Too many confusing descriptions.

Another potential interpretation is that the casting cost of maintained enchants is doubled, which serves the purpose of making it difficult to set everything up again after all the enchantments are stripped.

A 20 cost, 4 second cast Life Bond would definitely not be fun.

It still means that multiple people in your team are going to have to take Rend, Lingering Curse, or both.
It'd be nice to grab Well of the Profane, but what're the odds of getting that off with people spamming Putrid ASAP?