Now that NR is gone, lets analize the whinning
Iras K
A lot of flaming against builds running a spirit spammer. But now that NR is gone, I´ve started seeing people go back to the old builds. I haven´t yet seen anything really ¨new¨ in tombs (Prolly because I haven´t played much), however, my question is : Do you guys thing that people was really complaining for an overpowered skill or was it because they were jelous and severily wounded that they were not part of spirit spamming metagame (pwned)? I mean, wft, now that NR is gone, move one dudes...
nailz
spirit spamming needed to be killed....they just nerfed the wrong skills and ignored the most overpowered skill in the game.
Charcoal Ann
NR is not gone. it simply requires skill to use now. it effect is still great in PvP.
my problem with the previous NR was the lack of skill involved with its use.
my problem with the previous NR was the lack of skill involved with its use.
Mithie
NR was nerfed, but not to the point of uselessness. A good team will still slam it down to smash your enchant-heavy builds. Rend Enchants and other "weak" enchant strippers get quite a bit of a boost when running under NR. From what I've seen today, everyone's running a smite build or some other variation of an enchantment heavy build. I've come across a few spike teams here and there, and a couple of ranger heavy condition builds... much more variety in strategy than there was pre-update.
Iras K
I´d have to dissagree with that. Spirit spammer is not like the easiest job out there. You must have good team communication, make sure everything is always up and backed up, use your distracting shot/oath shot wisely, cast the right spirit at the right time (specially NR), make sure it´s available and that your defensive stance is up, pfff. I could roughly name a lot more easier PvP toons:
Spiker, axe warrior(ranger),putrid necro, blackout warrior, marksmanship ranger, smiter, name it yourself.
And for sure, hehe, nothing is harder and more complex than healing monk or mesmer.
Spiker, axe warrior(ranger),putrid necro, blackout warrior, marksmanship ranger, smiter, name it yourself.
And for sure, hehe, nothing is harder and more complex than healing monk or mesmer.
Mithie
The problem with NR isn't that it's easy to use; it's the fact that this one spirit effectively and brutally counters 1/3 of the skills in the game.
Iras K
Well, I saw this point in one other thread, and it´s the fact that you say it counters 1/3 the skills in game, but now you can spam that third on your ghost to make him untouchable/unkillable, what you think of that?
P.S. I´m not being sarcastic, just FYI
P.S. I´m not being sarcastic, just FYI
Mithie
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Originally Posted by Iras K
Well, I saw this point in one other thread, and it´s the fact that you say it counters 1/3 the skills in game, but now you can spam that third on your ghost to make him untouchable/unkillable, what you think of that?
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I just ran a condition attrition team against an enchant heavy team who did just that: slammed enchants on their ghost. Guess what? NR + focused removal destroyed their build quickly and brutally. While their monks were dealing with the NR effects and trying hard to renew the enchants, we adren spiked/DoT'ed/E-denied them with impunity.
Iras K
Well, if it was MEANT to be used that way, then they put a very bad name to it 
Mithie
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Originally Posted by Iras K
Well, if it was MEANT to be used that way, then they put a very bad name to it
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MSecorsky
I'm thinking (scary this early) that NR should be in the skill bar of every disrupting ranger now... should make disrupting enchanters much easier. Of course, I could be wrong...
Mithie
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
I'm thinking (scary this early) that NR should be in the skill bar of every disrupting ranger now... should make disrupting enchanters much easier. Of course, I could be wrong...
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MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Mithie
No, you're right. NR gives the rangers that extra window he/she needs to shut down most enchant spammers down cold. Couple this with the decreased time on disrupting shot and concussion shot, plus a good support team with rend/des/shatter, you can make enchantment-heavy or enchantment-focused teams cry... easily.
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I just got tingly.
Edit... wow, what a brilliant move... even though rangers lost their primary enchant removal, they now are forces at enchant prevention, which needed a kick and nicely balances what was lost.
Plus, this makes them more attractive to teams.
octaviancmb
Guys, it's been less than 10 hours since the update (10 hours during which most of America and Europe was asleep). It's going to take at least the weekend before we'll see a new tombs cycle. Lets not lament the return of dinosaur builds just yet, okay?
Personally I don't like a handfull of changes, but the overall effect of the update will, I believe, allow more creativity and exploration of recently marginalized builds (anything with hexes, for instance). The return of 58% of the Mesmer skill lines should make at least a noticable impact. The return of the Water and Curses lines are positive, too.
I can't wait to be able to play this weekend. It's going to be a lot of fun.
For the mostpart, good changes ANET, thanks!
cmb
Personally I don't like a handfull of changes, but the overall effect of the update will, I believe, allow more creativity and exploration of recently marginalized builds (anything with hexes, for instance). The return of 58% of the Mesmer skill lines should make at least a noticable impact. The return of the Water and Curses lines are positive, too.
I can't wait to be able to play this weekend. It's going to be a lot of fun.
For the mostpart, good changes ANET, thanks!
cmb
nailz
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Originally Posted by Mithie
No, you're right. NR gives the rangers that extra window he/she needs to shut down most enchant spammers down cold. Couple this with the decreased time on disrupting shot and concussion shot, plus a good support team with rend/des/shatter, you can make enchantment-heavy or enchantment-focused teams cry... easily.
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I don't PvP...but I've noticed that this change has made it possible to shutdown enchant heavy teams much quicker than normal. I think I'll start PvPing on my ranger and see if we can't force the enchant heavy builds to make a revolutionary PvP change....given enough time something within PvP will change. For a while it will just go back to the way it was pre-NR. But once people figure out NR's practical use they'll be forced to change.
Mithie
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Originally Posted by nailz
I don't PvP...but I've noticed that this change has made it possible to shutdown enchant heavy teams much quicker than normal. I think I'll start PvPing on my ranger and see if we can't force the enchant heavy builds to make a revolutionary PvP change....given enough time something within PvP will change. For a while it will just go back to the way it was pre-NR. But once people figure out NR's practical use they'll be forced to change.
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DarkWasp
I dont get it, whenever they lower something everyone feels like its not usable anymore. By tweaking NR, there are no many spirit groups in the tombs. Why would they tweak it if they didnt want you to use it? Spirit spammers still work! Annoying the eles and enchant monks with QZ and NR. Using fertile season to make tanks even more tankish. And please lets not forget GC and Winter to make everything cold damage.
lishi
now you have only one qz/fertile down ecc
and a spiker team can kill it in 2 sec pressing ALT whenever you put it
or maybe i can put protective spirit on spirit :s?
and a spiker team can kill it in 2 sec pressing ALT whenever you put it
or maybe i can put protective spirit on spirit :s?
Elythor
lishi....please don't run spiker teams no more >_<
You'll just get owned by a team who can throw up Protective Spirit / Spell Breaker / Obsidian Flesh quick.
You'll just get owned by a team who can throw up Protective Spirit / Spell Breaker / Obsidian Flesh quick.
lishi
what you mean elythor? dont nerf it more?
yep i know
currently i have
Ranger -> nerfed
Air Elementalist -> nerfed
Monk -> nerfed
Mesmer -> boosted but im still at forge...
yea i know i can get around some nerf...
but
yep i know
currently i have
Ranger -> nerfed
Air Elementalist -> nerfed
Monk -> nerfed
Mesmer -> boosted but im still at forge...
yea i know i can get around some nerf...
but
nailz
ranger wasn't nerfed...infact Nature Renewal was made even more useful that it used to be. Aside from being able to spam it Nature Renewal simply removed the enchantments..which could have been put right back on for another 60 seconds unless you had a decent interupter....but your ranger was too busy spamming spirits. Doubles the cost of maintaining enchantments...think of what that does. if your monk has 2 enchants out Nature Renewal forces him to drop them both if he wants his energy regen...if he has 3 he know has to work with an energy DEGEN of 2...
spirit spamming was the lamest part of this game.
Monk wasn't nerfed....just the cookie cutter forum build you stole and abused. Did I steal and abuse it? absolutely...and it was worth the 200 plat. Did I freak out when they nerfed it? absolutely it required me to begin thinking....am I still using my invinci-monk build...sure am. It's not nerfed at all, works perfectly...you just have to put some thought into it now.
Mesmer - new solo farming build...you heard it here first.
spirit spamming was the lamest part of this game.
Monk wasn't nerfed....just the cookie cutter forum build you stole and abused. Did I steal and abuse it? absolutely...and it was worth the 200 plat. Did I freak out when they nerfed it? absolutely it required me to begin thinking....am I still using my invinci-monk build...sure am. It's not nerfed at all, works perfectly...you just have to put some thought into it now.
Mesmer - new solo farming build...you heard it here first.
Bingley Joe
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Originally Posted by nailz
Monk wasn't nerfed....just the cookie cutter forum build you stole and abused. Did I steal and abuse it? absolutely...and it was worth the 200 plat. Did I freak out when they nerfed it? absolutely it required me to begin thinking....am I still using my invinci-monk build...sure am. It's not nerfed at all, works perfectly...you just have to put some thought into it now.
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Hahha!
Nicely said. I wish more people would be so forthright
Caelus The Fallen
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Originally Posted by DarkWasp
And please lets not forget GC and Winter to make everything cold damage.
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IxChel
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Originally Posted by Caelus The Fallen
Does that still work? Wont you kill the first spirit when you lay down the other?
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lishi
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Originally Posted by nailz
ranger wasn't nerfed...infact Nature Renewal was made even more useful that it used to be. Aside from being able to spam it Nature Renewal simply removed the enchantments..which could have been put right back on for another 60 seconds unless you had a decent interupter....but your ranger was too busy spamming spirits. Doubles the cost of maintaining enchantments...think of what that does. if your monk has 2 enchants out Nature Renewal forces him to drop them both if he wants his energy regen...if he has 3 he know has to work with an energy DEGEN of 2...
spirit spamming was the lamest part of this game. Monk wasn't nerfed....just the cookie cutter forum build you stole and abused. Did I steal and abuse it? absolutely...and it was worth the 200 plat. Did I freak out when they nerfed it? absolutely it required me to begin thinking....am I still using my invinci-monk build...sure am. It's not nerfed at all, works perfectly...you just have to put some thought into it now. Mesmer - new solo farming build...you heard it here first. |
ranger not nerfed?
have you read the changelog?
Kampfkeks
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Originally Posted by lishi
ranger not nerfed?
have you read the changelog? |
FiveDisgruntledMonkeys
Rangers weren't nerfed. Spirits were.
And they weren't nerfed into uselessness. Not by a long shot. It's just that now laying down every Spirit under the sun every five seconds is no longer a viable strategy. They're still useful, you just need to use them in a team build beyond spirit spammers. Nature's Renewal is perfect if your team doesn't plan to be using any hexes or enchantments. Frozen Soil means you don't have to worry about taking Rez Signets, or hiring on a Rezmer. Favorable Winds still rocks if you're running a Ranger-heavy team. Symbiosis is great if you're going to be using Enchantments.
See. Spirits still have a place. It's just that that place isn't fifty of them stacked on top of eachother with 250 bonus life.
And they weren't nerfed into uselessness. Not by a long shot. It's just that now laying down every Spirit under the sun every five seconds is no longer a viable strategy. They're still useful, you just need to use them in a team build beyond spirit spammers. Nature's Renewal is perfect if your team doesn't plan to be using any hexes or enchantments. Frozen Soil means you don't have to worry about taking Rez Signets, or hiring on a Rezmer. Favorable Winds still rocks if you're running a Ranger-heavy team. Symbiosis is great if you're going to be using Enchantments.
See. Spirits still have a place. It's just that that place isn't fifty of them stacked on top of eachother with 250 bonus life.
Rajamic
I think spirits were nerfed to uselessness. Now there is literally no way to protect them from being slaughtered in less time than it takes for you to set one. Now you can't have a buffer spirit up to be around in case one does get targetted and killed.
If they drop the recharge times (to 20-30 seconds) and bump up the levels we can get them at (I'd say attribute level + 1 would be a good formula), then I'll start using spirits again.
As it is, the other team can just have one person kill the spirit and all the time, and waste the Ranger's time completely.
"Frozen Soil means you don't have to worry about taking Rez Signets, or hiring on a Rezmer. "
But with spirits having a 5 second casting time, and Rezmers and Sigs being around 3 seconds each, all the other team has to do to res their teammates is kill the FS spirit, then immediately begin the rezing.
If they drop the recharge times (to 20-30 seconds) and bump up the levels we can get them at (I'd say attribute level + 1 would be a good formula), then I'll start using spirits again.
As it is, the other team can just have one person kill the spirit and all the time, and waste the Ranger's time completely.
"Frozen Soil means you don't have to worry about taking Rez Signets, or hiring on a Rezmer. "
But with spirits having a 5 second casting time, and Rezmers and Sigs being around 3 seconds each, all the other team has to do to res their teammates is kill the FS spirit, then immediately begin the rezing.
Red Sonya
Something I have found is that ebon weapons take out spirits in 2 hits. So I am carrying an ebon weapon with me now just for spirit smashing.
Goonter
Ive learned that you can heal spirits.
It would probably be to ones advantage to consider WHERE they place a spirit, instead of just laying one up and ignoring it.
If thats ones stradigy, to lay them anywhere and ingnor it, then yeah...spirits are somewhat more useless.
It would probably be to ones advantage to consider WHERE they place a spirit, instead of just laying one up and ignoring it.
If thats ones stradigy, to lay them anywhere and ingnor it, then yeah...spirits are somewhat more useless.
Weezer_Blue
They nerfed enchantment removal by taking out NR and made enchantment heavy builds very powerful. NR may be a pain in the ass for a protection monk, or any dumbass using Healing Breeze, but how long does it take to kill a spirit? 3 flicks of my wand or staff. Meanwhile, maintained enchantments will grow more and more powerful and FoTM. Expect to see healing balls very often for a while.
Red Sonya
Anything is better than seeing tons of spirit spamming nearly every single battle. At least now I can take out a spirit without having to kill 10 more of the same.
AWC Sandman
I think i'd prefer to see spirt spamming rather than smiters which basicly just got made invinicble due to the lag of mass enchantment removal
NTsan
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Originally Posted by AWC Sandman
I think i'd prefer to see spirt spamming rather than smiters which basicly just got made invinicble due to the lag of mass enchantment removal
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